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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:03:19:16:54:41 by Padre Pio.

That's a cracking read and absolutely spot on as well.

Hes not wrong

classic!!! this is brilliant..

often we tend to accord wenger what he didn't invent or is doing..we tend to wallow in his past records for us and not the present.. i was't born when leeds dismantled southampton but i can only imagine.. it's obvious even to a blind man that it's lack of effective personnel that seperates us from barca.

i can't for the live of me understand what wenger is really up to..how can a team crash out of 3 cup competitions in a space of 15days and he thinks he can convince us that this team is the best he has managed & has mental strength..ok..unless it's mental strength for melt down.

no matter how great a game of football is..no matter how fluent and fantastic the duel, if it has no goal rush i most certainly never re-watch the match.. talk less of side passing, no shooting & possession football with no end result..i rarely bother to re-watch our matches & most of them i will never watch cos IT'S@#$%&FOOTBALL..I've seen better matches from the gunners & no the difference between absolute rubbish & real class... i do not mean fancy sexy football & no winning cos for me the 2 go hand in hand.

for this great article

Can We Now Trust The Process 🤔🤷🏿‍♀️ or Should We Still Remain Cautious 🙇🏿‍♀️

Thanks for that Padre. I get these thoughts on a monday morning after another dismal weekend.

AJ, they sometimes show a bit of that Leeds match on tv. You can hear the crowd ole-ing every time a successful pass is completed. I think there was about 25 passes before they scored one of their goals. They toyed with Southampton. That was a great Leeds side, tough and uncomprimising but they also had some flair players.

We did brilliantly to steal the league title from them in 1971. That season we showed the never say die attitude this team rarely shows.

A good read, there, Hippo. How`d you enjoy NZ. The 1st game was on here, mate, ESPN/Sky live, I watched `em both.

An interesting stat as far as Barca having the players to play the passing/ keep possession game is that in their recent games they have enjoyed huge amounts of possession, 75%-85%, but for a meager goal return, 1-0, 3-1, against us, Barca made something like 600 passes with 74% possy to our 180 odd with 26%, 800 odd passes in a game producing 4 goals, and their 1 all draw last weekend, playing away with 75% possy

So the return for playing this style of football is a gamble, even with the worlds best players playing in your team. Other teams know they can`t compete with 15% to 25% possession. So they parkup and counter-attack. It`s hard to win games if you ain`t got the ball, unless you`re ManU playing against us.

So using that reasoning it is simply not worth the effort to play attractive, spectator/TV friendly football if, what all you really want is to win at all costs, even for the sake of the football.

That `71 season you remember Hippo, When we, as you say, pinched the title off Leeds. What our team had back then was a man called Frank McLintock. A man who was a leader, a man who was a great captain. Someone we don`t have now.

Last weekend, quite incidentally, I watched the 71 cup final for about the 27th time and the football was still crappy, but the game was great. Now if we had lost I wouldn`even have a recording of the game. I have not got the Ipswich cup final or the Irons one, but I have got the 79er and I could watch Barca`s present football till the cows come home.

Oh and by the way, that really great Leeds side, they got bundled out the 70/71 FA cup in the 5th round by Colchester united (4th div)3-2

Since the end of WW1, 1919, when the FA restarted its 4 tier football league, with Arsenal fc in the 1st div, there’s only ever been one club to have never been relegated from Div 1/ EPL.

Arsenal fc

Let’s keep making history

Correctamundo.

1971 Final wsnt bad George's goal was one of the best ever

"When we had to suffer the team is a lion because they suffer together." 4 July 2020 at Wolverhampton Wanderers
Arteta on his team's first away victory at a club above them in the Premiership since September 2015 at Leicester.

as i always say these days every1 bar blackburn stoke and a few others play good football now
look at blackpool or bolton,sunderland look at there midfield there is no holding player.

Forgive my french... but I f.uckin enjoyed reading and totally agree with Hippogunners post. Spot on there mate especially about the Leeds bit.



[farm5.static.flickr.com]

Baby I was born to MOAN

The Leeds side you talk of was a very good side who failed to acheive their potential in trophies,Bremner and Giles were uncompromising"midfield" players with no little ability.In fact the team was choc full of excellent players,one of the great English club teams,

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nis
as i always say these days every1 bar blackburn stoke and a few others play good football now
look at blackpool or bolton,sunderland look at there midfield there is no holding player.

I'd much rather watch us or Blackburn play than watch the likes of Arsenal or Man City.

And regarding Bolton and Sunderland, that is just bullshit. Sunderland play Cattermole and Muntari now, while Bolton play Muamba. Both still hoof it, and both are far better better to watch than Arsenal.

Wrong turn mother fker

they won the cup and won a league

"When we had to suffer the team is a lion because they suffer together." 4 July 2020 at Wolverhampton Wanderers
Arteta on his team's first away victory at a club above them in the Premiership since September 2015 at Leicester.

hippo who on here ever claimed wenger invented beautiful football, also who on here ever claimed that we see Arsenal's beautiful football every week or even half enough,
Also please post the quote where wenger ever claimed that experience hinders, your article lacks what you claim this arsenal team lacks - substance. Lots of good sound bites and some interesting points, but not accurate in many of facts you base your arguements on. Much like alot of Arsenal this season your article actually missed a chance to be what it could have been or really should have been.

Good constructive criticism Eduardo.

I have got rather sick of people espousing the glories of our rather sterile football. Only a few posters on here adhere to this rather skewed belief that we play the best football in the league but among pundits it's rife. Sometimes I think this strange obsession is a veil to cover the burgeoning criticism bubbling under the surface of said pundits.

Robbie Savage let fly on Radio 5 Live after the Manu game. He seemed more frustrated with our hapless team than some Arsenal fans. He's one of the few pundits who has not witheld a disparaging view of Wenger's way.

Apologies about drawing conclusions Eduardo but sometimes you have to make a leap from inference to fact. It makes an argument more interesting. Hence my view of Wenger's slightly perverse attitude to experience. Wenger's reluctance to keep players after the age of thirty. In recent seasons he's got a bit desperate and snatched up a relic called Sylvestre and a waning Campbell. The first, you might argue, did more harm than good.

Experience I believe helps Manu. Scholes and Giggs maybe past their best but just having those battle-scarred veterans in the squad probably lifts the surrounding players. The effect can't be measured but I do wonder if not having a few Arsenal greats from our glory days (2004/5) would have aided our team.

Weedz, how I loved NZ. The beauty of your country was staggering. Even more effective because of the lack of people. Many gorgeous lakes and very few houses to ruin the view. If the same was in Italy there'd be signs of humanity everywhere to disturb the view. Best country I've ever been to.

The difference between us and Barca as I said is the quality of their players. They know what to do when they get near the box. You can throw tactics to the wind against them because they have one player who is bigger than tactics. You know who I mean.

So they drew at the weekend. Well one has to remember that La Liga teams are used to Barca. We're not, though we should be by now.

As Manu are used to us. Fergie is a far superior manager to Wenger and he knows exactly what tactics to employ against us. It helps of course that Wenger doesn't change his team's style. Fergie bends with the wind and then blows it back at you. Wenger merely stands as rigid as a pole.

One has to adapt. Play this so-called beautiful football against open teams like Blackpool but adopt a different approach to Manu. Consider your opponent's strength, don't just wallow in your own.

Agree about McLintock. That man's desire was forged in defeat after defeat in major games for Leicester and Arsenal.
Hopefully the likes of Wilshere and Walcott can summon up that same positive frustration to fuel their desire for success in the future.

I remember Leeds getting done by Colchester, one of the great shocks of the century, similar to Arsenal falling to Walsall in the thirties.

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loudandproud

Quote:

nis
as i always say these days every1 bar blackburn stoke and a few others play good football now
look at blackpool or bolton,sunderland look at there midfield there is no holding player.

I'd much rather watch us or Blackburn play than watch the likes of Arsenal or Man City.

And regarding Bolton and Sunderland, that is just bullshit. Sunderland play Cattermole and Muntari now, while Bolton play Muamba. Both still hoof it, and both are far better better to watch than Arsenal.

ok

Barcelona have the same players under Pep that they did under Rijaard for the most part.
It took Pep's influence to get those players tracking back, tackling and closing down, they did not play this way under Rijaard when the center piece was Ronaldiniho and when he stopped playing so did the team.

The fact also remains that Barca did not spend a fortune on this team with one or two occasional exceptions like Villa and Alves.
Xavi, Iniesta, Messi, Busquets, Pedro, Puyol, Pique, and Valdez probably cost less combined than Villa and most of them are home grown and educated in the Barca way as boys not men.

It was their education that made them the players they are now and that is a fact.
Arsene is attempting to do the same thing, the difference is that Barca have had a 90,000 seater stadium for over 100 years, maybe even longer and that is why they can buy the Villa's, Alves' and Ibra's but these buys are only bought in to compliment the team and when they don't they are out which is ok because the youth system will be bringing on potential players in those positions anyway.

Its all well and good to say that we don't have the players to do what Barca can but the same players under Rijaard played in a very different way with regards to the defensive side of the game and we must remember the context of my argument which obviously inspired this one which was that people were saying that we should sack Wenger.

Sack Wenger and it will take another manager 6/7 years to rebuild the team in their own image, we will lose our better players who are loyal to the manager and if you want to change Wenger then it must mean that you want to play a different type of football, which would mean function over style.

Just because we are not where Barca are now does not mean that we should stop trying, lose Wenger and your moans and groans will square themselves within one season.

You may want Wenger gone but its not going to happen and I for one am glad of that, the transfer policy must change but in the end I will trust Wengers judgment over any of yours !

if you want to be where barca is now, you have to groom the right personnel not expect players who will never be what you so desperately want them to be to perform at the level that will make you a force to reckoned with.

i'm not for wenger going but thinking that arsenal will collapse and fall by the way side if wenger goes is being afraid of change..no man is indispensable unless he is GOD and wenger is a mere mortal playing games with fans who buy the tickets to watch a bunch of mediocre players being carried by a few great players doing all the work.

Can We Now Trust The Process 🤔🤷🏿‍♀️ or Should We Still Remain Cautious 🙇🏿‍♀️

I saw the first Barca game and listened to the Second on the radio, We were cheated, Cesc done that pass, we had Ten men at 1-1 and lost our keeper..I'm not making excuses, we were without Walcott and we all know how good Arsenal can be in the last Twenty minutes of a game when at full strength with One Song.
They can't handle bad luck that's all, we don't need to start roughing people up.

AFC
RULE!

Quote:

Billythekid
Barcelona have the same players under Pep that they did under Rijaard for the most part.
It took Pep's influence to get those players tracking back, tackling and closing down, they did not play this way under Rijaard when the center piece was Ronaldiniho and when he stopped playing so did the team.

The fact also remains that Barca did not spend a fortune on this team with one or two occasional exceptions like Villa and Alves.
Xavi, Iniesta, Messi, Busquets, Pedro, Puyol, Pique, and Valdez probably cost less combined than Villa and most of them are home grown and educated in the Barca way as boys not men.


It was their education that made them the players they are now and that is a fact.
Arsene is attempting to do the same thing, the difference is that Barca have had a 90,000 seater stadium for over 100 years, maybe even longer and that is why they can buy the Villa's, Alves' and Ibra's but these buys are only bought in to compliment the team and when they don't they are out which is ok because the youth system will be bringing on potential players in those positions anyway.

Its all well and good to say that we don't have the players to do what Barca can but the same players under Rijaard played in a very different way with regards to the defensive side of the game and we must remember the context of my argument which obviously inspired this one which was that people were saying that we should sack Wenger.

Sack Wenger and it will take another manager 6/7 years to rebuild the team in their own image, we will lose our better players who are loyal to the manager and if you want to change Wenger then it must mean that you want to play a different type of football, which would mean function over style.

Just because we are not where Barca are now does not mean that we should stop trying, lose Wenger and your moans and groans will square themselves within one season.

You may want Wenger gone but its not going to happen and I for one am glad of that, the transfer policy must change but in the end I will trust Wengers judgment over any of yours !

Function over style. I'm sorry but endless possession without an end product is hardly stylish.

Maybe Guardiola can make something out of players like Denilson and Diaby but Wenger can't, it seems. How often have we been caught out because our players don't pressure opponents when they have the ball?

As for this team staying together, how long do you think players will stay if the team doesn't improve? We've already seen Flamini, Adebayor and Cole jump ship. Now I agree those players are hardly role models but I'd rather have Adebayor upfront than Bendtner and the invisible man who gets tired after three months of football. It's rumoured Bendtner is going to leave anyway at the end of the season, if he does so much for building a team.

I'm not sure how much that Barca team cost but money big money was spent on Villa, a player we could have tried to buy a few years ago. It's obvious we need some world class players, an outlay of £60 million might do it, but of course we know that won't happen and so expect us to repeat this season ad infinitum.

Again I've no idea why you think our football is so special. Is it that exciting? Ponderous and easy to defend against I'd call it.

And yes I'd take function over style if it meant we won the league or even beat Birmingham, because one trophy might give this team the belief it obviously lacks.

yeah hippo its so easy to defend against arsenal that we average over two goals a game in the fapl so far this season

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hippogunner
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And yes I'd take function over style if it meant we won the league or even beat Birmingham, because one trophy might give this team the belief it obviously lacks.

So, hippo, given that aw basically has 10 games to prove that we can win the epl with our style. If we do win, are you going to be sitting there telling me, "it's rubbish, I'd rather we played like Stoke. We'd have won the carling cup then"?!

Id rather we won the league, I dont care what style, but it needs more enthusiasm than we saw at Man U and in carling

"When we had to suffer the team is a lion because they suffer together." 4 July 2020 at Wolverhampton Wanderers
Arteta on his team's first away victory at a club above them in the Premiership since September 2015 at Leicester.

Quote:

eduardo
yeah hippo its so easy to defend against arsenal that we average over two goals a game in the fapl so far this season

This has been discredited many times. Because we don't score the goals we need in vital games. It's all very well scoring 4 against Newcastle but not to win is very poor. We needed to beat Sunderland at home and couldn't muster more than one disallowed goal. Couldn't score against City at home etc.

I won't tell you it's rubbish if we win the league but I bet you if we do it'll be an excuse not to buy better players. Do you think we'd retain the title? Because this year has been different. No one team has been consistent, which makes it an even bigger indictment if we don't win.

And yes Philly if we'd beaten Birmingham and played like Stoke I wouldn't have minded. At least it would show this team had imagination!

Credit to all posters on this thread, no one insulted anyones else. Well played lads !!

when it really matters our defence crumbles thats the only stat we need to know

"When we had to suffer the team is a lion because they suffer together." 4 July 2020 at Wolverhampton Wanderers
Arteta on his team's first away victory at a club above them in the Premiership since September 2015 at Leicester.

7 clean sheets in the nine fapl games played in 2011

Man City only attacked once, Wigan and West Ham were pathetic. The one team that had a go at us scored 4.
Cup games Barca 4, Man U 2 and Brum 2. Not one clean sheet, and 8 goals conceded in 4 games.
I hate to say it,Ive spent 5 years denying it - we are flat track bullies, we crack against any one who is skilled or determined.

Eduardo you have to take on board we have had 3 important cup rubbers and lost every one that mattered.

The same will happen in league, as soon as the team realise the games matter they will choke.

"When we had to suffer the team is a lion because they suffer together." 4 July 2020 at Wolverhampton Wanderers
Arteta on his team's first away victory at a club above them in the Premiership since September 2015 at Leicester.

Fergie is s better manager but he was almost sacked our football at times is awe inspiring but then when we falter it is exceptionally bad. As good as fergie is he has never managed to create a team of invincibles and win a league unbeaten this for me is wengers greatest achievement and when he is long gone this will be remembered like 71. 49 games unbeaten in the toughest league in the world. We had beauty ugly and beastly then we won the title