More Bould Than Wenger More St Totteringham than CL


King Kos

By Boris Mellor
May 20 2013

As I left the Bank at 8pm ish, fans were still celebrating in the local pubs and streets on one of the rare warm evenings all season. It has been extremely rare for the Bank posse to sit outside after a match this season. Just like much of the season it has been bleak with little to cheer about, but at last the sun shone through.

However the fans I spoke to, and I spoke to quite a few, were not so much celebrating yet another journey to nowhere in the Champions League, or what it means for the balance sheet, but the fact that the old enemy had been put back in their place.

There was great merriment over the false rumour (allegedly started by Alan Sugar on Twitter, you're fired!) that Newcastle had equalised causing celebrations amongst Spurs fans made victory even more delicious. I am sure you have all seen the photos. After all it’s the hope that kills you in this game.

No doubt stating this was more Bould than Wenger will upset a few, well tough, are you really arguing he has made no impact? Would the fact that he has made an impact after a full season demean Wenger in some way? Surely greatness is knowing how to delegate, it never did Ferguson any harm.

But more Bould than Wenger can be interpreted in different ways, maybe Wenger has decided the team should press harder, work harder and defend in depth. That may well be his strategic decisions, and would not be the first time he has done that, Man U in the Cup 2005 springs to mind.

It also has to be taken into account that there is a lack of quality in the attack. Yes Walcott delivers most, but not always, and Podolski and Giroud are still not up to the pace. The midfield can play well, but no one is certain what the best combination is, and if Wenger does know he has rarely had the luxury to play that combination. His favoured midfielders, Diaby, Wilshere and Arteta have all had serious injuries this season.

To sum up the squad has lacked depth and quality, true it has scored a goodly number of goals, but not enough to push into the top two, and certainly not against the top five where goals have been scarce.

However, the defence has gone from strength to strength as the season has developed, and the final game exemplified that more than any other game. Yes Newcastle huffed and puffed and nearly blew the door down, but they didn’t. Every attack was rebuffed, blocked, tackled and harried, yet how many great saves did Szczesny have to make? Most were lame shots from outside the area, and even when they got in the area they failed to make an impact.

Yes it was hair raising stuff, especially for Gazidis, who no doubt was adding up the cost (That’s enough slap headism. Ed) of failure to qualify, but the quality of defending was superb. Koscielny was Man of the Match without his striker’s goal, but this wasn’t about individual performances, it was team work, and the way that Kos and the BFG worked together was a wonder to behold.

One example was BFG going to ground in the area and failing to clear the ball. Kos was there to clear it immediately, real teamwork, the centre backs and back four all working together. This looked like the  old back four in the days of Adams and Keown. You only had to observe the way they attacked the ball at corners and free kicks, the way the shape was kept at the back. I refuse to believe this isn’t due to Bould’s influence, if it isn’t then what is he there for? It’s certainly has put a stop to the old we need a defensive coach chestnut.

Yes without the goal it would have been meaningless, but it was very much the defence that sealed the victory. At the same time it was a team victory, and everyone worked hard, the whole team deserves praise. Fans may choose to slag off their particular bête noir, but the failure to wrap the game up has more to do with a lack of quality than a lack of effort.

Yet when the final whistle went none of this mattered the several thousand fans watching on the Emirates screens celebrated long and loud. Are you watching Tottenham they sang, and all through the game they cheered the team on as if they could be heard.

Wenger had qualified for the qualifiers by the skin of his teeth, just as he had he did last year and  that does raise the question is this what Arsenal fans want to go through every year? Scraping 3rd or 4th, and being out of contention for the main trophies by March or earlier. If so then the year will arrive when instead of scraping through Arsenal could drop out of the top four. Once that happened the Gunners could discover, like Liverpool, that it is much harder to return to the top four than to leave it.

Wenger’s squad is suffering from under investment in world class players, the shortage of finance is no longer a valid excuse.

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More Bould Than Wenger More St Totteringham than CL
Discussion started by Arsenal Times , 20/05/2013 09:52
Arsenal Times
20/05/2013 09:52
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:05:25:10:07:26 by Padre Pio.

Bergmars
20/05/2013 12:52
Yes wiping the collective smile from the cocks faces is very satisfactory.COYG.

Shane
20/05/2013 18:27
More Bould than Wenger? Do me a favour.

You don't like Wenger, Padre. This is patently obvious to anyone who has been reading the board for the last two years. It's also clear to me that you'd just about credit anyone as the saviour of Arsenal's season - so long as it isn't Wenger because it would betray quite alot of what you've written about him.

I remember last season, after giving Arsenal a snowball's chance in hell of retaining their status as a top four club, it came as no surprise that when we did pip Spurs to the Champions League, Fulop's performance for West Brom and Tottenham's end-of-season collapsed were the areas of focus rather than anything Arsene Wenger did.

Back to this season: did Steve Bould drop Thomas Vermaelen, a decision which argueably proved the turning point in our season? No. Did Steve Bould inspire the squad to believe we could still finish ahead of Tottenham after slipping seven points behind him? No, it's not his job and an even greater comeback was staged last season when Bould was changing nappies at Under-18 level.

Bould was also still in his last post while Koscielny and Mertesacker were proving effective as a duo last season, which prompts the theory that you're overrating Bould's impact in an attempt to disguise the fact - and it is a fact - that Wenger proved you, and I, wrong again.

The second part of your post, about St Totteringham's Day over Champions League - that I fully agree with.

weedz
20/05/2013 22:45
What Shane said, apart from the `I` was proved wrong by Wenger, because I was proved right by Wenger.

The call from the `Out with Wenger` brigade, that the man is deluded, out of touch and a millstone around the neck of our club, is at best, an emotion driven catch-cry, with so little common-sense as to leave me thinking about a `not seeing the forest, for the tree` scenario.

Please, please, please put some faith back into our club, by accepting that circumstances are, and have been, the over-riding factor in barroness of our last 9 seasons.

Arsene Wenger isn`t a god, messiah or even the greatest manager of all time. He`s just Arsenal, through and through.

Since the end of WW1, 1919, when the FA restarted its 4 tier football league, with Arsenal fc in the 1st div, there’s only ever been one club to have never been relegated from Div 1/ EPL.

Arsenal fc

Let’s keep making history

Padre Pio
20/05/2013 22:46
I dont dislike Wenger, he is witty and urbane and a father figure to footballers who probably dont deserve it. I do think he is busted flush, and I might be proved wrong but its a view I am entitled to.

so we we all knew in advance that Fulop would have a mare and we would win even though West Brom outplayed us. it was all carefully planned in advance.

This season it was carefully planned on the 15 August that on the last day of the season Arsenal would beat Spurs by 1 point to take the CL qualifiers spot and save arsenal's season by Wenger's fingertips.

It was all planned in advance that Vermaelen the captain would be dropped (A move that should have happened months ago) and that Szczesny would be dropped thus boosting Arsenals 10 match unbeaten run. I am sure you are right that these acts of genius were at Wenger's command, I do wonder what kept him.

And if Bould is doing something positive and having a good effect that is due to Wenger, I wouldnt expect him to employ Bould to do nothing.
We now know that the defence is coached seperately as well as with the team. I assume Wenger lets Bould do that. You cite last year, well last year Arsenal conceded two goals in the final game this year none.

Arsenal have won the last 3 games away by 1-0.

I nil to the Arsenal, altogether now.

Wenger has never bought ready made marquee players, but he will need to do so now or his team will continue to struggle to get a top four place, and by the way I have never predicted Arsenal wouldnt get top four, but I have predicted 3 years running no 1st or 2nd place. He also needs top players to make sure we win the qualifiers and get well past the group stage.
Like and dislike have nothing to do with it

"When we had to suffer the team is a lion because they suffer together." 4 July 2020 at Wolverhampton Wanderers
Arteta on his team's first away victory at a club above them in the Premiership since September 2015 at Leicester.

weedz
20/05/2013 23:18
`Arsenal have won their last 3 away games` is the important part of your statement, Padre.

It was `planned` that way. We were told by Wenger

For as much as a 1 goal part of the scenario is import, so is the `0` part, my friend.

SB has been an import part of the reason for our excellent 10 game run it. Our `D` brought us home, in the end. It`s all part of the big picture.

Since the end of WW1, 1919, when the FA restarted its 4 tier football league, with Arsenal fc in the 1st div, there’s only ever been one club to have never been relegated from Div 1/ EPL.

Arsenal fc

Let’s keep making history

Padre Pio
20/05/2013 23:43
More Bangers than Mash than champagne breakfast. I dont mind I prefer a team that fights.
Maybe Wenger and Bould will turn out to be a great partnership

"When we had to suffer the team is a lion because they suffer together." 4 July 2020 at Wolverhampton Wanderers
Arteta on his team's first away victory at a club above them in the Premiership since September 2015 at Leicester.

Shane
20/05/2013 23:52
Quote:
Padre Pio
I dont dislike Wenger, he is witty and urbane and a father figure to footballers who probably dont deserve it. I do think he is busted flush, and I might be proved wrong but its a view I am entitled to.
so we we all knew in advance that Fulop would have a mare and we would win even though West Brom outplayed us. it was all carefully planned in advance.

This season it was carefully planned on the 15 August that on the last day of the season Arsenal would beat Spurs by 1 point to take the CL qualifiers spot and save arsenal's season by Wenger's fingertips.

It was all planned in advance that Vermaelen the captain would be dropped (A move that should have happened months ago) and that Szczesny would be dropped thus boosting Arsenals 10 match unbeaten run. I am sure you are right that these acts of genius were at Wenger's command, I do wonder what kept him.

And if Bould is doing something positive and having a good effect that is due to Wenger, I wouldnt expect him to employ Bould to do nothing.
We now know that the defence is coached seperately as well as with the team. I assume Wenger lets Bould do that. You cite last year, well last year Arsenal conceded two goals in the final game this year none.

Arsenal have won the last 3 games away by 1-0.

I nil to the Arsenal, altogether now.

Wenger has never bought ready made marquee players, but he will need to do so now or his team will continue to struggle to get a top four place, and by the way I have never predicted Arsenal wouldnt get top four, but I have predicted 3 years running no 1st or 2nd place. He also needs top players to make sure we win the qualifiers and get well past the group stage.
Like and dislike have nothing to do with it

Hmm, I didn't say dropping Szczesny and Vermaelen were acts of genius, but both decisions did spark an upturn in fortunes which lead us to overturning a seven point deficit to Tottenham and ultimately pipping them to the Champions League spots once again. Dropping them were two major decisions, argueably the biggest of our season, and Wenger made them mate.

It's madness to suggest Steve Bould deserves more credit than Wenger for where we ended up in the league. He's the manager and if he's the focus of fans anger in times of crisis, which he is, then it's simply bad form to deflect attention away from him in favour of Steve Bould when things are good.

In my view, the only time Bould's name is mentioned is when things are good defensively. When things are utter sh*t defensively, which they've been for most of the season, you'd see the name Desmond Tutu mentioned before Steve Bould. Hero when we're good, blameless when we're sh*t. He's got every number 2 in the division envious of his position.

On a sidenote, I can tell you for absolute fact you stated Arsenal wouldn't get top four at some point last season. I know this because I've got a habit of occasionally remembering odd, seemingly unimportant sh*t. You weren't alone in that assessment of course, but you most definitely did say it.

Padre Pio
21/05/2013 00:06
I dont think I did say it, my prediction s for last two season has been a guarded between 3 and 5 but definitely not one or two. And even if I did which I dont think so, I would be out by 1 point, which we would have lost if Adebayor wasnt such a cock.

By the way did you actually read the article?
quote: "But more Bould than Wenger can be interpreted in different ways, maybe Wenger has decided the team should press harder, work harder and defend in depth. That may well be his strategic decisions, and would not be the first time he has done that, Man U in the Cup 2005 springs to mind".

And if that was the case then Bould was doing his bidding, so whats the problem with that.

"When we had to suffer the team is a lion because they suffer together." 4 July 2020 at Wolverhampton Wanderers
Arteta on his team's first away victory at a club above them in the Premiership since September 2015 at Leicester.

Shane
21/05/2013 01:06
There's nothing wrong with that, if it's true, but we don't know if it's true or not because nobody has any idea what goes beyond Arsenal walls. The scale of Bould's influence remains to be seen because nobody quite knows how involved he is.

When making bold statements, the like of which you made, there has to be facts to back up the rationale, and with Bould's role at the club everything is conjecture. There are no facts. There's theories, and the one's you offered are fine, but just as you refuse to believe Bould's influence wasn't evident in Sunday's win, I refuse to discredit Wenger on the basis Bould may or may not be responsible for the solid defence.

Is Bould's influence measured in our defensive record in recent months? Possibly, but as I said Koscienly and Mertesacker are excellent defenders who forged a solid partnership before Bould arrived in the senior set-up so that too is debatable.

What isn't debatable is Wenger made key changes to the playing-staff at a crucial time, and he had to ensure the squad were motivated to pursue what many believed to be a lost cause in catching Spurs. It's not easy convincing a group of players there's still something to fight for, but he did and both those reasons alone are enough to suggest Arsene can't possibly have claims levelled at him that his second-in-command was more influential than he was in the club's ascent up the table. It's a near-alien concept in football.

To clarify: Bould may well have proved a valuable addition to the behind-the-scenes staff, and we may learn of his contribution more in the coming months and seasons, but this season I can't accept his impact was so great that he showered with praises while ignoring Wenger's job.

Bergmars
21/05/2013 06:17
Kudos to all who took part but lets not kid ourselves that this season has been any great shakes.Losses to Bradford and Blackburn were certainly not part of the great master plan and as I stated on another post to have fans celebrating fourth is a sign of the expectation,I agree a lot of that would be the fact that we pipped the neighbours,even so we have not challenged for the EPL or the CL seriously for some considerable time.
By their own admission the financial excuse is redundant from here on in,proof and pudding the time is now.

weedz
21/05/2013 09:02
And that is why they celebrated, Bergy. Precious little else to celebrate, my friend. More because of circumstances than anything else

And as you say, circumstances have changed. That distant light at the end of the tunnel should become a whole lot brighter this summer. I believe it will.

Since the end of WW1, 1919, when the FA restarted its 4 tier football league, with Arsenal fc in the 1st div, there’s only ever been one club to have never been relegated from Div 1/ EPL.

Arsenal fc

Let’s keep making history

AJ The Gunner
21/05/2013 10:46
ha!! ha!! wish i was there see the faces of all the spud fans when they realized that they were bound to play uefa cup.. sweet!!

Can We Now Trust The Process 🤔🤷🏿‍♀️ or Should We Still Remain Cautious 🙇🏿‍♀️

HappyGööner
21/05/2013 21:39
Quote:
Shane1988
You don't like Wenger, Padre. This is patently obvious to anyone who has been reading the board for the last two years.

Padre has morphed into Merlion96. As a matter of fact, it's hard to tell them apart.

Shane
22/05/2013 01:12
Wow that's crazy harsh. In all of Padre's 78 years on this earth - he will have not of come across a bigger insult than that.

Padre Pio
22/05/2013 14:35
Thank you for your kind support Shane, you have made an old man very happy

"When we had to suffer the team is a lion because they suffer together." 4 July 2020 at Wolverhampton Wanderers
Arteta on his team's first away victory at a club above them in the Premiership since September 2015 at Leicester.

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