Arsenal
Debunking myths 8-10 Wenger conflict with board and legacy
Conflict Myth?
By Celine Dion
September 25 2011
In the final part of Celine's article Debunking 10 Wenger Myths he argues against the idea that Wenger is in conflict with the board (an argument that was first put forward by this website see story link at very bottom of this page). Finally Celine sums up what he believes Wenger's legacy will be and why it is necessary to debunk the myths.
Myth 8 He is in conflict with the board?
If Wenger’s true position this last six years is one of conflict with the board, where each player sale was made over his head, then why would he put up with it? Why would he put up with his hard work being destroyed each season by forced sales? There can only be two options - that he believes his own hype to the point that he believes he can replace any player with any other player and still progress, that he is essential to Arsenal, and the only thing between us and oblivion, or that he is prepared to do footballs’ equivalent of a meaningless desk job and balance the books via the playing staff and pick up 6 million pounds a year for the pleasure. Neither, in my view, paint a positive picture of the man. Not in the light of the spiralling costs of actually watching football. We are constantly told that Wenger made our club one of the biggest in the land, yet the same people claim finishing fourth is a wonderful achievement. Sorry, just where should we expect one of the biggest clubs in the land to be finishing? Seventh? Fifteenth? (mind you, watch this space).
Myth 9 Wenger Teams Have Mental Strength
Which brings me to some of the unforgivable collapses of the past few years. Unforgiveable because at each stage beyond the first few years at the Emirates, we have always been told there was money to spend on players. It may be true to say nowadays that we don’t have a 50 million and £140 grand a week to compete with Chelsea and Man City on an individual player. But we certainly could have bolstered the clubs playing staff during our campaigns of 2008, 2010, and 2011. Time and again Wenger has built a promising league campaign only to cast it aside once the Champions League restarts. Leaving half his best players out in the Liverpool league game in 2008. Doing the same against Birmingham away in 2010. A man that believes his own hype to such an extent that he thinks he can jump from fourth place one season, to a league and Champions league double the next season, something Chelsea with all their millions have never done, and despite steadfastly refusing to spend money on players, money which we are told was available. Whilst declaring a haughty disinterest in the domestic cups, playing a reserve team in the league cup final and leaving Arshavin out of the 2009 FA Cup Semi, despite Arsenal fans travelling to see these games in their hordes.
These aren’t the actions of someone who cares about the fans, these are the actions of someone who is pursuing a private mission, frankly, trying to prove a personal point and make himself a legend in the process. It hasn’t worked, it isn’t going to work, perhaps he could try and do things a bit more like other football managers in future.
Myth 10 Wenger the thinking fan’s manager
Which brings me to Wengers’ character. Arsenal have attracted a certain type of fan under Wenger, a fan who thinks your more ordinary football manager, your Allardyce, your Pardew, is some kind of gibbering uncouth half-wit. Wenger has ‘class’ you see. It was a very popular image at one time, Arsenal were very clearly the thinking man’s club, our fans were all round necked jerseys and laptop bags, we were a French club, with all the inherent attachments to the philosophical and the avant garde that the French have. I think that it is this cultural departure for Arsenal fans from the humdrum, whisky swilling, muddy normality of English football that makes it so very hard for a lot of us to think about going back.
However very few of our fans have actually met Wenger. Ask yourself this, why does he command such a high churn of players? Why do so many other managers patently dislike him? Why is he such an incredibly poor loser? Why can’t he give a straight answer to a question? And what about his personal life? My point is not that he is a bad person, I am sure he is a perfectly pleasant, 6 million pound a year, Football Manager. But there are those, particularly the young, who seek to canonise the man. That is a different matter altogether. It is the same mentality that sees Frimpong declared a ‘legend’ after one game. For those in the public eye, you have to be either a hero or a zero in the modern era. You can’t be in grey, and in between.
The entire standpoint of those who can never countenance losing Wenger, no matter how many defeats we see at home to Newcastle, West Brom, Aston Villa, Spurs and so on, is that he was once a genius football manager, so he will never cease to be anything else. But history is littered with football managers who achieved wonderful things for a period then, either the times changed or they did. Brian Clough, Steve McClaren, Peter Reid, Benitez, quite possibly Mourinho at this point in time. It is quite possible for a genius to lose his genius or to make catastrophic decisions. Napoleon should not have invaded Russia. Tony Blair should not have invaded Iraq. Wenger should have bought Xavi Alonso for the extra 2 million pounds.
So what will Wenger’s legacy be?
The way I see Wengers’ contribution to our club, is positive, but no more positive than many other characters in our history. I believe it is quite possible to view him as a fortunate contributor at a time things were made relatively easy for him. When he came to the club it had the best defence in its history, plus probably its best ever player Dennis Bergkamp, and in his ground breaking 1998 season, Roy Keane was injured for the best part of it. Chelsea and Manchester City were ordinary clubs, and Liverpool were well in decline. Who exactly was there to be frightened of? The 2002-2004 success was hugely down to two further additions, Vieira and Henry.
Of course Wenger deserves massive credit for bringing them to the club. But how much was what Henry achieved down to his management? Henry was practically superhuman, he did what he liked. And as soon as he went, Wenger started to look very ordinary again. Yet with all these wonderful players he still managed to win literally nothing between 1999 and 2002. Wenger rallies against clubs spending absurd money in the modern age, but to most clubs, in those days, we were doing just that.
For Gazidis to say that Wenger will never be sacked is an immensely dangerous thing. Those who make the most apologies for Wenger, constantly remind us that football is a business. So what business refuses point blank to even consider getting rid of a manager on the strength of achievements that were nearly a decade ago? For those who paint the picture of Wenger bravely toiling in his path despite the constraints of a penny pinching board, it doesn’t wash any longer. Why hasn’t such an immensely principled man, despite all the player exits and provocations, just walked away? The board needs Wenger and Wenger needs the board.
Yes, Real Madrid might very well snap up Wenger if he were released, but do you think they would put up with defensive performances the like of which we have seen from Djourou and Koscielny this past year? He would be out on his ear within 6 months. The current board and Wenger is a cosy marriage of convenience. Wenger has the cosy task of keeping the fourth richest club in England in fourth place, and the board have the pleasant objective of raking in the ticket money. It is down to us, the fans to see through the self congratulatory nonsense, and the blatant dining out on the past. The club has very definitely allowed an image to be built up of Wenger, an image that suits the inactivity and financial policy. It is down to us fans to cut through the sentimentality and start to see things in the cold light of day. A cult has been built around Arsene Wenger, and no good can come of cults. The cult needs to be demolished.
I hope this article might go a little way into making that possible.
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:09:26:08:51:01 by Padre Pio.
"we aren’t allowed to pay the stadium loan off quicker than the original terms of repayment"...not true...the writer shud take an internship at a bank primarily focused on mortgages...he/she will b rly surprised
"any spare money is being hovered up in share dividends or being left pointlessly in the bank."...erm if its left pointlessly in the bank thn the capital of the company increases->share prices increase...so basically the guy is repeating himself...
not to mention tht this is the job of IVAN GAZDIS not ARSENE WENGER...the board allocates the funds not AW...tht is y we rly need Dein who actually realizes tht this is a football team and not an everyday company..
"Every football team in history, certainly Arsenals’, has a hoary old professional or two, to guide the new players and maintain the themes of discipline and tradition at the club. A Carragher, a Ledley King, a Giggs. Except us." go bak a couple of years in time...we needed capital and real fast...we had plenty of assets...what does a business do to convert assets into liquid capital? thts right they sell thm...again the board is to blame...
"His latest piece of meticulous planning involved spending £50 million in two days, by the way, after spending the entire summer trying to buy different players to the ones he ended up with." lolwut? so again its AWs fault tht the board only allowed a green light for the money flow after the 8-2 trashing?
"Yes, the team now can boast Schzesney, Gibbs, and Wilshere. But it is also the worst Arsenal team for fifteen years."...first of all its Szczęsny and i wudnt boast about gibbs...and what about frimpong? coquelin? aneke? et al...a youth policy pays off in the long run not in the short run...oh and no this aint the worst AFC side in 15 years...tht line most certainly works on younger fans but the older ones like zilch, jet etc. know very well tht AFC had worse squads
as for writing down the current squad so early in the season just shows how the writer of the article never experienced football first hand...
peace out
srsly getting tired of the fifa mindset some ppl have...y dun they realise tht fifa is just a GAME...irl a footy team is so much more complicated...and im not only talking about the duality of the business and footy but i also mean tht they blame the manager for EVERYTHING...keeper missed out on a corner? manager to blame...striker misses a sitter? manager is to blame...midfielder makes a bad pass? manager is to blame...guys AW is not sitting on the sidelines with an xbox/ps controller in his hand! and im not even gna go into the aspect of team chemistry irl and fifa...or sport psychology...
edit: im not claiming i know everything...but srsly if everything irl wud b like it is in fifa thn we wudnt need specialists only 1 manager and 20 players...i mean we all realize tht it aint like tht so y are we analyzing real life situations with tht mindset?
Posted reply from Footy Tube user Thresktari
However you dont know everything about Finance. Celine is right and you are wrong, that is fact not opinion. I have been at meetings with the CEO Mr Gazides and we asked him why doesnt the club pay off early. His reply was that this would trigger penalties so extensive that it is cheaper to carry on paying back yearly.
I must say I suspect Celine was watching football when you were still in shortpants, but there is nothing wrong with that as football is a game to played in shorts.
"When we had to suffer the team is a lion because they suffer together." 4 July 2020 at Wolverhampton Wanderers
Arteta on his team's first away victory at a club above them in the Premiership since September 2015 at Leicester.
Quote:syedalimz
srsly getting tired of the fifa mindset some ppl have...y dun they realise tht fifa is just a GAME...irl a footy team is so much more complicated...and im not only talking about the duality of the business and footy but i also mean tht they blame the manager for EVERYTHING...keeper missed out on a corner? manager to blame...striker misses a sitter? manager is to blame...midfielder makes a bad pass? manager is to blame...guys AW is not sitting on the sidelines with an xbox/ps controller in his hand! and im not even gna go into the aspect of team chemistry irl and fifa...or sport psychology...
The problem with not blaming a manger for these 'fifa mindset' problems is managers are supposed to buy efficient players as well as the best passing Centerbacks,Midfielders and Strikers, yes passing skills are also required in the world of Wenger and Mertezacker was bending the rules as he isn't a Xabi Alonso type lol. SAF would play a defensive mid who's role is to mainly tackle but Wenger doesn't like midfielders that can only do one thing , which is why Song can get away with a lot of defensive mid crimes as he's excellent at keeping the ball. In 2003 what was the reason for the success? Wenger's tactics(which are different now), Henry or Wenger for buying Henry, If your players are not getting the offside trap Dortmund why is it in the next game at Blackburn you're getting caught out, surely it's the job to identify weaknesses as well as strengths. Also if we are blaming mistakes of players why is there a need to defend a manager whose job will then basically be to put them out there? I can do that, where can I apply for the job, if squillaci f*cks up it's not my fault
.Theodore roosevelt - In any moment of decision, the best thing you can do is the right thing, the next best thing is the wrong thing, and the worst thing you can do is nothing.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:09:25:13:40:19 by karsene16.
If that doesn't have anything to do with it than why wasn't he sacked then?
But I think looking the information about things have transpired clearly that is reason to strongly suspect precisely that and that the Board willfully misled loyal and trusting Gooners about those intentions.
Obviously it is too late to prevent all that has happened. But surely we don't have to pretend it never happened and leave ourselves vulnerable to it happening again now.
"When we had to suffer the team is a lion because they suffer together." 4 July 2020 at Wolverhampton Wanderers
Arteta on his team's first away victory at a club above them in the Premiership since September 2015 at Leicester.
Sound familiar? Wonder if getting shot of him then would have been 'good business'.
"When we had to suffer the team is a lion because they suffer together." 4 July 2020 at Wolverhampton Wanderers
Arteta on his team's first away victory at a club above them in the Premiership since September 2015 at Leicester.
Those of you who do not pay too much attention to the gentlman's work, the line under Mr PIO's signature (and he is clearly boasting) is taken from a former Tottenham player and manager in the 50's and 60's period. So that clearly shows where one ALLEGIANCE holds ground. I do not have to say anymore to this.... Yawnnn.........
Moving on with your sub standard comment about you think I wore short pants and considering short pants were introduce in early 20's and 30's YOU just made Celine (no offence) "Prehistoric", (well Celine would be the judge of that, I guess) considering if its a "SHE". I hope not for your sake as you just put her in the 60+ zone (Travel Discount card holders aka elderly's list). Moving on again.....
I wonder how they let you in to those meetings in the first place with Mr Gazidis as you can't put his name right. Its Ivan Gazidis with an "i" not an "e" in the end. Moving on again..............this is getting tiresome....double Yawnnnn......
Consider for a split nano secong that if you do get a chance to speak to him in one of the so called meetings, " I wonder you waisted all those opportunities asking him just one question, i.e. "why don't Arsenal pay thier debts early. hmmmm. Paying your loan early when you have laon structure (let me clearly defined Mr PIO what Arsenal's loan looks like from the offset of the project initiation, "The Stadium facilities comprise £260 million of senior debt to be provided to Ashburton Properties Limited ("Ashburton Properties") (the member of the Arsenal Group which owns the Stadium site) by a Stadium facility banking group consisting of the Royal Bank of Scotland PLC, Espirito Santo Investment, The Bank of Ireland, Allied Irish Banks PLC, CIT Group Structured Finance (UK) Limited and HSH Nordbank AG with the Royal Bank of Scotland acting as facility agent for the group. Interest on the senior debt will be at a commercial and fully hedged fixed rate over the 14 year term. Not to consider an existing loan taken off by Ashburton from Barclays'.
Now considering the lender is not ONE, if Mr Pedro have the slightest of clues about the banking loan facilities structure (I fear not though!!!) he will realise that even if it would have been only one single bank giving away the entire loan facility it would have been an enormous task to pay off this huge loan, at pre maturity period, let alone having multiple entities releasing the laon facility.
Hmm....lets see what is the repurcusions of paying a simple loan of the smallest denomination released by one single entity (I am sure many of us already noding thier heads because they know all too well about home repossessions and defaults to bad credit scores) but just to satisfy Mr PIO's argument lets see......
A loan from Barclays if you want to pay off early...(by the way anyone can check this as it is available online). Repaying your new loan early....quoting Barclays here:
"You can also repay your loan earlier than planned in full or in part at any time. An early settlement fee of 30 days' interest on the loan balance outstanding at the settlement date will be payable in addition to any other interest due".
Have you got a slightest of idea how much windfall it will require to pay off a debt of this magnitude (considering the above statement from Barclays is for normal loans and not large or corporate loans). By the way if Mr Pedro know one or two things about banking or finanical markets, he would have realised that Banks are not here to do charity, they give money to make money. Money is a bank's product that it sells, what incentive is there for the bank if someone comes along take out a loan and pay it off when they are in green. How the hell, bank will make money from this model. NO not a chance, banks want you to pay the money upon the agreed period, so that there calculated or estimated income (net cash flows) remain stable and they can balance thier books. But Enough on the banking lecture, I wonder if Mr PIO already taken out all his endowments or if he is US based, his 401K plan. Not to worry, the rest of us are still struggling to passby the last recession........Moving on AGAIN..............
(GOD knows why even I am bothered enough to go even this far)......but still.....Yawnnnnnnnnnnn.........
If he had retired Wenger would have a few more under his belt!
"When we had to suffer the team is a lion because they suffer together." 4 July 2020 at Wolverhampton Wanderers
Arteta on his team's first away victory at a club above them in the Premiership since September 2015 at Leicester.
Sorry mate..I don't understand a thing what you are talking about?
Could you care to put it in points form what exactly are your points and why are you HAPPY or UNHAPPY about Mr Wenger??
"When we had to suffer the team is a lion because they suffer together." 4 July 2020 at Wolverhampton Wanderers
Arteta on his team's first away victory at a club above them in the Premiership since September 2015 at Leicester.
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