Lincoln City
16th : Lincoln heading for more mediocrity?
By theimps.tk
July 25 2009
Well I said it was coming, the first time sinced starting this site that I've predicted us to finish outside of the top 7, but to be honest I have good reasons for thinking so, and based on many conversations and comments and various forums, I am not alone.
Let's look at this realistically. In Jackson's first season at the club, after John Schofield's inspired poor start, the Imps recorded 58 points from 46 games, enough for midtable irrelevance, twelve months later and no-one else's bad start to blame, 59 points from 46 games also saw a midtable finish, this time 13th. However, that doesn't tell the story of the season as City would have finished 15th had it not been for Rotherham and Bournemouth both having points deductions. In other words, our progress was one point, nothing more, nothing less and all of that was with a squad that I think is better than the one with have now.
I can't really recall going into a season without even the slightest bit of optimism, but I am now. It's hard to put my finger on why but I feel that we've lost some very good players, but replaced them with players who may have impressed in pre-season, but this is a pre-season where City have failed to win as of yet. However, I have been impressed with what I've seen of Chris Fagan. I knew about him from his days at Manchester United so knew he would be dangerous at this level and if there's one player I trust to propel us higher than the 16th place I am predicting then it's Fagan.
I have a strange trust in our defence. The end of last season (other than the Aldershot game) saw our defence finally gel and stop conceding goals, with Moses Swaibu being excellent after a very shaky debut. It seemed almost strange that our defence significantly strengthened after Danny Hone (our best defender in my opinion). The addition of Heath should be decent and if we sign Hughton then I will have confidence that we can avoid the sort of defending that saw us concede 5 at Grimsby.
If there's one sign of how inconsistent we were last season then it was the fact that if we went ages without losing then we'd rarely win, but if we went on long runs without a win then we'd rarely lose, it was quite strange how it worked out and if we could sort that out then we'd be laughing. I mean look at our win at Gillingham, brilliant win but that was our last win for three and a half weeks. It's that kind of inconsistency that prevents us really going anywhere.
The one thing about this Lincoln side is that I think it has the potential to be a really good side, but I don't think we can fulfil this potential under Jackson. He's had nearly two years to prove he is good enough to be our manager and other than arguably saving us from relegation (although if was Iffy who technically did it as he was in charge at the time), he's done nothing to take this club forward. I've spoken to many fans who have no intention on returning until he leaves, one of whom decided to get a Leeds season instead.
I would just love to be able to be sat here in twelve months being able to predict where we would finish in League One, but I can't see it happening and we appear to yet again be a club in transition. I don't think we'll have any relegation issues at all, even at our worst we're still better than teams such as Accrington, but I don't feel we've adequately replaced the outgoing players and 16th, give or take, is where I see us finishing.
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Stumbleupon16th : Lincoln heading for more mediocrity?
Discussion started by theimps.tk (IP Logged), 25/07/2009 03:56
25/07/2009 03:56
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if we get a striker (bridges hopefully) i can see us coming 9th or 10th perhaps, but with our current squad i agree with your prediction.
Have to agree we currently in a group of sides with very small squads who will muddle along in mid table unless we do get Bridges and couple of very good other signings be they permanant or on loan.
I know we all want the squad together now but we do have until the emd of August to get the squad sorted.
I know we all want the squad together now but we do have until the emd of August to get the squad sorted.
Think you have got this one wrong Nathan.
Think we will be relegated this year.
No forwards and lost our most creative players.
Think we will be relegated this year.
No forwards and lost our most creative players.
not wishing to diss your article in anyway Nathan, but how can you call anyone who gets an S.T. at another club a fan?
At the least he/she is fairweather, at worse a traitor to the cause.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009:07:25:23:14:16 by theexile.
At the least he/she is fairweather, at worse a traitor to the cause.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009:07:25:23:14:16 by theexile.
Make or break season for Jackson I reckon. Dont think we'll go down, if only on the basis theres worse teams around than us, but if we have another season treading water should we look for another manager?
With regards to TheExile's comments, the person in question does actually post on here, so I'll let him defend himself if he feels the need.
The reason I called him a fan was because he has been watching the club for several years and I know he loves the club, but really, really, really dislikes Jackson.
Good Luck, Mr Gorsky
http://twitter.com/#!/katejackson84
http://www.katejackson84.blogspot.com
The reason I called him a fan was because he has been watching the club for several years and I know he loves the club, but really, really, really dislikes Jackson.
My heart says, Fagan will be a boy-wonder natural finisher, Oakes will be given a free reign i.e. formation to suit his undoubted quality at this level and the defence to collectively eradicate silly mistakes ........... my head says 14th - 17th is the absolute best we can hope for under the current regime?
Quote:theexile
not wishing to diss your article in anyway Nathan, but how can you call anyone who gets an S.T. at another club a fan?
At the least he/she is fairweather, at worse a traitor to the cause.
As i'm the fan in question let me say that i have been going none stop now for 9 years (since i have been able to afford it and get to the ground). I have seen us nearly go under, the highs under Keith and the recent decline under Jacko. Despite getting a season ticket at Leeds i will still be going to about 20 Lincoln games next year. I haven't "Jumped ship" or become a traitor i have simply decided not to spend 300quid on a club who over the last 2 years have sold or released no fewer than 7 top earners and replaced them with unproven kids.
Got to say I agree. I went into last season really optimistic....but the 2nd half at home to Dagenham made me think again. It is make or break for Jacko...the fans have been very loyal and supportive..but you have to question his handling of some players. We're great at losing our top plyers and then not seeing the money spen anywhere.....or at least not on player replacements. There are some worse sides around (I think and hope!) but I unless we manage a good start I fear a season bumbling about the lower reaches and looking over our shoulder to the trap door every time we have a poor patch.
My worst nightmare.....poor start out of FA Cup in November (inevitable!!)...sack Jacko...so all the income from Freck Dany etc goes on manager compensation again....bring in similar with the 'this club has been in this division too long opening gambit'....repeat mistakes of the last few seasons again.
I'd love to be proven wrong.
My worst nightmare.....poor start out of FA Cup in November (inevitable!!)...sack Jacko...so all the income from Freck Dany etc goes on manager compensation again....bring in similar with the 'this club has been in this division too long opening gambit'....repeat mistakes of the last few seasons again.
I'd love to be proven wrong.
That is no reason to get a n ST at another club, if lincoln is your club, it's your club whatever.
we don't trade in family because they marry someone we dislike.
if you love the club as nathan says, HOW in hells name can you do such a traitorous deed.
we don't trade in family because they marry someone we dislike.
if you love the club as nathan says, HOW in hells name can you do such a traitorous deed.
Quote:theexile
That is no reason to get a n ST at another club, if lincoln is your club, it's your club whatever.
we don't trade in family because they marry someone we dislike.
if you love the club as nathan says, HOW in hells name can you do such a traitorous deed.
I am a Leeds fan as well thats why i can get a ST there. Last year i had a ST at Lincoln and went to as many Leeds games that i could. Does this make me a traitor to Leeds or Lincoln?
When i go to Leeds i enjoy myself the way i did when Keith was here which is what i go to watch football for. I still grit and bear going to lincoln but do i enjoy it? No! I go because i love lincoln City.
Quote:We've lost our most creative players? Kerr and Brown led the assists chart last year, and they're still here to that arguement is flawed.Normanstanley
Think you have got this one wrong Nathan.
Think we will be relegated this year.
No forwards and lost our most creative players.
Gosh what a lot of doom mongering.
I'm quite optimistic for this season. I have some reservations, but although we have a small squad we don't appear to be carrying anyone and there is a lot of flexibility; with players who can play in a number of positions.
From what I have seen of the defence it looks not just sound, but classy. We have cover all across the midfield and even without Kerr and LJL we have a choice from Butcher, Oakes, Clarke x2, Brown, Coleman-Carr and Hutchinson. That is at least 2 players per position across a four-man midfield.
We obviously need another striker, in particular a goal scorer, and injuries could be an issue, but in general I'm quite chipper.
I think the 3 key players will be Fagan, Butcher and Oakes. If they all perform as we all believe they can, then I can see us gaining automatic promotion. We can't afford to carry Oakes or Butcher and Fagan needs to score goals, but if we can avoid those two scenarios then onward and upward for me. Everything else should take care of itself.
I'm quite optimistic for this season. I have some reservations, but although we have a small squad we don't appear to be carrying anyone and there is a lot of flexibility; with players who can play in a number of positions.
From what I have seen of the defence it looks not just sound, but classy. We have cover all across the midfield and even without Kerr and LJL we have a choice from Butcher, Oakes, Clarke x2, Brown, Coleman-Carr and Hutchinson. That is at least 2 players per position across a four-man midfield.
We obviously need another striker, in particular a goal scorer, and injuries could be an issue, but in general I'm quite chipper.
I think the 3 key players will be Fagan, Butcher and Oakes. If they all perform as we all believe they can, then I can see us gaining automatic promotion. We can't afford to carry Oakes or Butcher and Fagan needs to score goals, but if we can avoid those two scenarios then onward and upward for me. Everything else should take care of itself.
i can vouch for dave and can say he is a pretty avid fan of lincoln and leeds, and one of the reasons he has a season ticket at leeds as hee can see more lincoln games by getting a season ticket at leeds by watching more leeds matches getting a season ticket at lincoln.
he is one of many fans with two clubs.
he is one of many fans with two clubs.
Firstly I feel that we can achieve a play off position this season, I think a mixture of experience and raw potential could lead us to a decent finish. Realistically top 10 would be progression but the last season I felt we would not achieve anything was 2002/2003 and we all know what happened with the likes of Weaver, Futcher, Yeo etc. We all thought we didnt stand a chance.
Football makes the eyes all glazy, you always feel that your team is better than what it is and I always feel that we should beat any team in League 2!!
In relation to the Leeds (or any other team) v Lincoln....I understand people wanting a 2nd team when they support the likes of Lincoln, personally I could never support two teams and cannot get excited about another team scoring. The interesting point is IF we get promotion and Leeds have another shocker.....who will you cheer for? Which end will you sit in? Couldnt put myself in that position.
I dont imagine in a second that you thought Leeds would ever be in the position they are in now but that is realism and no team is invicible.
I am and always have been a one man team and I salute all lower and non league fans for turning up week in week out to watch mediocre football and watch your team consistently lose but I would never think of going down the road to watch Forest, Leeds, Sheff Wed or Sheff Utd. I am a Lincoln fan and proud of that.
Football makes the eyes all glazy, you always feel that your team is better than what it is and I always feel that we should beat any team in League 2!!
In relation to the Leeds (or any other team) v Lincoln....I understand people wanting a 2nd team when they support the likes of Lincoln, personally I could never support two teams and cannot get excited about another team scoring. The interesting point is IF we get promotion and Leeds have another shocker.....who will you cheer for? Which end will you sit in? Couldnt put myself in that position.
I dont imagine in a second that you thought Leeds would ever be in the position they are in now but that is realism and no team is invicible.
I am and always have been a one man team and I salute all lower and non league fans for turning up week in week out to watch mediocre football and watch your team consistently lose but I would never think of going down the road to watch Forest, Leeds, Sheff Wed or Sheff Utd. I am a Lincoln fan and proud of that.
Interesting to see what others think - The Times has us down for 5th yesterday. Although at first glance some of their predictions looked like they'd been drawn out of a hat, there seemed a mix of common sense (Darlington relegated) and some predictable predictions - Bradford, Rotherham & County for automatic, if I remember rightly.
A Rochdale site has us down for 4th, and thinks the signings to replace DNG et al have largely been good ones - but the writer acknowledged this time last year that he thought David Graham would be our key signing.....
Lets be positive and look forward to playing Leeds 2010-11!
A Rochdale site has us down for 4th, and thinks the signings to replace DNG et al have largely been good ones - but the writer acknowledged this time last year that he thought David Graham would be our key signing.....
Lets be positive and look forward to playing Leeds 2010-11!
I would sooner Lincoln win promotion than England win World Cup!! But yes England are only team that enters my head too Posh.
Forgive me for saying this, but I saw England win the World Cup in '66 - on black and white tv in Belgium of all places, and surrounded by Germans! I was 11 years old!! I have also seen Lincoln City win the title, in '76 and gain another championship in '88, a further two promotions and two appearances at Cardiff.
I am not really sure if I were to be given the choice between England winning another World Cup or Lincoln City winning League 2 who I would choose.
Probably England.,,
...if only because it would re-unite the nation.
I am not really sure if I were to be given the choice between England winning another World Cup or Lincoln City winning League 2 who I would choose.
Probably England.,,
...if only because it would re-unite the nation.
Quote:StratfordImp
Firstly In relation to the Leeds (or any other team) v Lincoln....I understand people wanting a 2nd team when they support the likes of Lincoln, personally I could never support two teams and cannot get excited about another team scoring. The interesting point is IF we get promotion and Leeds have another shocker.....who will you cheer for? Which end will you sit in? Couldnt put myself in that position.
I hope that never happens but having seen Leeds last season at Elland Road tear MK Dons, Tranmere and a few others to pieces for 90 minutes i would be worried about how bad Leeds would make Lincoln look as it would be 3 or 4 without a struggle.
I think if a match between the 2 ever happens i would stay neutral and would prefer Lincoln to win but wouldn't be dissapointed if they didn't.
Quote:PoshImp
Forgive me for saying this, but I saw England win the World Cup in '66 - on black and white tv in Belgium of all places, and surrounded by Germans! I was 11 years old!! I have also seen Lincoln City win the title, in '76 and gain another championship in '88, a further two promotions and two appearances at Cardiff.
I am not really sure if I were to be given the choice between England winning another World Cup or Lincoln City winning League 2 who I would choose.
Probably England.,,
...if only because it would re-unite the nation.
Me too Posh ..... and the winning mentality under Capello is looking promising!
Appreciate your patriotic side Posh and Aryan and in reality terms the likehoods is that England stand more chance but it is Lincoln all the way for me....I never like to miss a Lincoln game and am disappointed when I do (usually because of work and distances) but does it bother me if I miss England v Azerbaijan.....No.
Agreed England look strong under Capello and of course I would LOVE for England to win the World Cup but would it give me the same rush as watching the Imps run out at the Milennium Stadium.....Watching them beat Wycombe to win the GMVC title, gaining promotion v Brighton.....No.
Agreed England look strong under Capello and of course I would LOVE for England to win the World Cup but would it give me the same rush as watching the Imps run out at the Milennium Stadium.....Watching them beat Wycombe to win the GMVC title, gaining promotion v Brighton.....No.
I know what you are saying Stratford, but have City literally ever reduced you to tears?
When we were relegated at Swansea in 87' it just made me feel numb i.e. shocked silence. When England lost on pens to Germany in WC90' I sat in the middle of Broadgate and roared my eyes out, and when we lost in EC96' I did untoward things to a nearby VW Golf in frustration!
I guess footie is a way for men to release pent up emotion, supressed in day-to-day life?
When we were relegated at Swansea in 87' it just made me feel numb i.e. shocked silence. When England lost on pens to Germany in WC90' I sat in the middle of Broadgate and roared my eyes out, and when we lost in EC96' I did untoward things to a nearby VW Golf in frustration!
I guess footie is a way for men to release pent up emotion, supressed in day-to-day life?
Always Lincoln over England to me. Although interesting points are made about the nation being re-untied again, and I think it would be a brilliant thing, I never feel the same passion watching our national team as I do the Imps
Ditto Grundy
Aryan - It is weird for me - I get angry when Lincoln lose because for some bizarre reason I expect them to win!!??
With England - I kind of expect it - failing to qualify for Euro 2008....not a shock, World Cup 2004....not a shock. Penalty loses in WC 1990, 1998, 2006, Euro 96, 04....not a shock.
Poor Euro 1988, 2000....not a shock.
WC 1986....cheated and YES i was angry at that one!!
Disappointment more than anger. I've never cried after a football match (for football reasons exc Bradford, Hillsborough and Heysel) even the relegation to GMVC or losses at Milennium Stadium....never will I imagine.
Aryan - It is weird for me - I get angry when Lincoln lose because for some bizarre reason I expect them to win!!??
With England - I kind of expect it - failing to qualify for Euro 2008....not a shock, World Cup 2004....not a shock. Penalty loses in WC 1990, 1998, 2006, Euro 96, 04....not a shock.
Poor Euro 1988, 2000....not a shock.
WC 1986....cheated and YES i was angry at that one!!
Disappointment more than anger. I've never cried after a football match (for football reasons exc Bradford, Hillsborough and Heysel) even the relegation to GMVC or losses at Milennium Stadium....never will I imagine.
What a thoroughly interesting thread this has developed into.
My biggest moment of despair with regards Lincoln City simply has to be the last day of the 1986/87 season when all results conspired to force us out of the League, and not only that, but become the first club to do so automatically!
What a dreadful day that was...
My biggest moment of despair with regards Lincoln City simply has to be the last day of the 1986/87 season when all results conspired to force us out of the League, and not only that, but become the first club to do so automatically!
What a dreadful day that was...
Terrible city memories;
Derby stuffed us 3-0 in front of recored crowd
Graham Taylor realising we were to remain a lower league club forever, then leaving for Watford.
All relegations.
Losing 0-5 at home to Watford.
Slaughtered at home to Barnet
Reames as manager.
John Schofield as manager.
Hopefully I've got thirty years left to live. I watched England win the world cup but I don't think Lincoln will ever go up two more divisions.
Derby stuffed us 3-0 in front of recored crowd
Graham Taylor realising we were to remain a lower league club forever, then leaving for Watford.
All relegations.
Losing 0-5 at home to Watford.
Slaughtered at home to Barnet
Reames as manager.
John Schofield as manager.
Hopefully I've got thirty years left to live. I watched England win the world cup but I don't think Lincoln will ever go up two more divisions.
I hope I don't do despair, but I remember the feeling of utter disappointment when, after leading 1-0 infront of 10,000 chanting fans Southampton scored to equalise.
The crowd went quiet and I hardly remember them making a noise after that; they just stopped believing we could win.
Southampton went on to win 3-1 I think.
The crowd went quiet and I hardly remember them making a noise after that; they just stopped believing we could win.
Southampton went on to win 3-1 I think.
Quote:Lowest point of being am Imp I think.PoshImp
What a thoroughly interesting thread this has developed into.
My biggest moment of despair with regards Lincoln City simply has to be the last day of the 1986/87 season when all results conspired to force us out of the League, and not only that, but become the first club to do so automatically!
What a dreadful day that was...
Des Lynam was so pleased Burnley has stayed up and couldnt care less we had gone out of the league. All because Burnley were a founder member of the League!!!!!!
my lowest point as an imp was when i couldnt make it to hudders away in the playoffs, i was about 10 i think. cried all night.
Southend in the play off final when Keith finally lost it and took all our strikers off the field!! Sorry.....he left Asamoah on!!
Relegation to GMVC was a shocker especially how it happened but what a great season followed in the Conference (except for 1st 3 games!!), we played some tosh that season...none more than Boston!!
Dave - how can you choose Champions League Semi Finals against Valencia rather than an away trip to Runcorn or Weadlstone??? LOL!!
Relegation to GMVC was a shocker especially how it happened but what a great season followed in the Conference (except for 1st 3 games!!), we played some tosh that season...none more than Boston!!
Dave - how can you choose Champions League Semi Finals against Valencia rather than an away trip to Runcorn or Weadlstone??? LOL!!
My worst point was the play off loss to Southend, purely because that was our best team of modern times and we deserved to win that game. If we had held that team together it could have help it's own in league 1.
Grundy - definitely. Especially as Southend gained back to back promotions......fair enough they had Freddie Eastwood but we were miles better than them that day. Not the first time some strange subs decisions from Keith cost us......but he is still a legend!!
Quote:That was bad but that was going for promotion going out the league was far far worst.heathimp
my lowest point as an imp was when i couldnt make it to hudders away in the playoffs, i was about 10 i think. cried all night.
Quote:theexile
That is no reason to get a n ST at another club, if lincoln is your club, it's your club whatever.
we don't trade in family because they marry someone we dislike.
if you love the club as nathan says, HOW in hells name can you do such a traitorous deed.
I think you're discussing this with the wrong people Exile. There are a lot of people on here who have 'other teams'!! I myself support another team and my heart essentially sees City as my 'second' club. But this doesn't mean I love City any less - just in a different way to some others.
Plus, League 2 is generally a pishy division and even the most hardened of fans can get hackd off with it and want to watch some better quality footie from time to time!
Further, I think this article is overly-pessimistic. I don't think City will do any better than seventh (at absolute best) but I really cannot see a season worse than 08/09. City now have a settled defence and a stronger-looking forward line. The area of concern for me is the midfield, i.e. lack of centre mids (can't see Shane Clarke and Oakes tearing up trees) and the right-hand-side if Jamie Clarke doesn't produce. Plus the squad doesn't have a lot of depth, but that is most likely down to money rather than Jacko.
I think there are more proven players in the squad and we have a more united unit than this time last year. I think we'll be okay - it doesn't take a lot of get out of League 2 (just look at Brentford last season) so you never know.
I think there are more proven players in the squad and we have a more united unit than this time last year. I think we'll be okay - it doesn't take a lot of get out of League 2 (just look at Brentford last season) so you never know.
Think you have a point there James a bunch of essentially youngsters is more likely to bond than a bunch of journeymen.
We will know more tomorrow I think.
We will know more tomorrow I think.
If Nathan is right about his prediction I would be disappointed but no more than that.
We are in a League in which the trapdoor leads out of the Football League.
I have been there once with the Imps and I don't want to go there again and so I will settle for 16th. Hoping for better, of course, but 16th will do if it comes to it.
We are in a League in which the trapdoor leads out of the Football League.
I have been there once with the Imps and I don't want to go there again and so I will settle for 16th. Hoping for better, of course, but 16th will do if it comes to it.
Everything changed when Jacko was sacked.
We are starting afresh sadly 2 months into the season not the summer as it should of been.
Then we wouldn't be lumbered with the rubbish Jackson brought in.
Why did the board wait to sack him and do it May?
Questions must be asked about that for me.
We are starting afresh sadly 2 months into the season not the summer as it should of been.
Then we wouldn't be lumbered with the rubbish Jackson brought in.
Why did the board wait to sack him and do it May?
Questions must be asked about that for me.
Must say my prediction of 16th now looks optimistic.
Looked at some of the pre-season predictions and despite some people describing me as mental for some of my predictions, I'm doing reasonably well.
Good Luck, Mr Gorsky
http://twitter.com/#!/katejackson84
http://www.katejackson84.blogspot.com
Looked at some of the pre-season predictions and despite some people describing me as mental for some of my predictions, I'm doing reasonably well.
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