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Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive


At Loggerheads?

By Eduardo
August 21 2011

According to an unnamed source Arsene Wenger is at loggerheads with the Board over how the transfer budget should be spent. I am not at liberty to name that source, but I believe the information I received explains the current impasse at Arsenal. Before I explain what the differences between them are, let me make it clear that there is a substantial transfer budget that has to not only cover transfer fees but wages of incoming players and contract improvements of those already here.  

The Board and Wenger are both in agreement that , to avoid the situation the club has encountered with Clichy and Nasri this summer, star men like Van Persie and Vermaelen and others with only two years left on their contract need to be offered new long term contracts with big pay rises. 

 

And this is where the first difference of opinion has arisen between manager and club,  The Board believe that offering to rise a players wage from £60K -  £70K  a week to £90K or £100K is more than enough, but Wenger believes that this is not enough, when  City, Utd and Chelsea are paying their best(£180K - £250K), and that if we want to keep our best players we have to go to the next level, he wants the pay scale risen to £150K for our best.  

 

This brings us neatly on to the next bone of contention between manager and club, the calibre of signing we can make. Both Wenger and the Board agree that to even maintain a top four spot, let alone win the title, several new signings are required.

 

The Board are willing to pay big transfer fees, as is Wenger (he is not lying when he says he would pay £30M - £40M), it is also where the difference of opinion comes. The Board would willingly meet the transfer fee, but will not meet the sort of wage demands a £30M signings asks for.  

 

Wenger had a four pronged squad plan this summer,

 

  1. Keep our best players
  2. Buy in top level players to improve the team
  3. Sign young players with big potential
  4. Promote from within

 

Wenger has done parts 3 and 4. He wanted to do part 1 and 2 by  Nasri being offered a massive contract so he would stay, and he hoped to persuade Cesc to stay one more year, with not only a new contract but with the calibre of player he signed. Wenger wanted Mata and Benzema, he still wants Hazzard, wages more than anything else are ruling out Mata and Benzema.

 

The Board had no problem meeting the Juan Mata transfer fee, but once Chelsea let it be known to his agents what they would offer, it blew Arsenal’s contract offer out of the water.  We ran into the same situation with Jones and Utd.

 

People ask why have Arsenal not signed Cahill, Dann or Samba etc, well its simple really, Wenger wants better players, the Board want him to sign the above level of player, as it sits with their wage scale, Arsene wants the next level up, a Subotic, a Hummells, but they come with not only high transfer fees but with massive wage demands.  

Wenger would rather not sign a player at all, than sign someone for a big fee who he considers no better than what we have, the board have asked him to reconsider this stance, and that is why Cahill and Dann have been scouted this late in the window, Arsene sees them as not as good as Koscielny, and thinks it is the wrong way to use his budget, he wants better quality for the first 11, the board just want him to make signings to appease the fans.

 

Wenger had a major discussion with Kroenke and the Board on Members day.  He was told in no uncertain terms that Nasri would have to be sold if he did not sign a contract, and between them they came to the decision to let Cesc go for less than his worth. But Wenger fought his corner, and made it clear the sort of player he wants and that our star men have to be given contract that will keep them, as you can not build if every year there is doubts who are staying and who are going.  Arsene also reiterated his view that we need top quality players, not just one as good or possibly slightly better, and that these players come at a premium cost and that the club has to go up a level not only on fees but on wages.

 

Arsene Wenger is a company man, and will not come out with any of this, while under contract, no matter how much flack he takes, and that is why his comments in the media, since the Members day meeting, have been more for the ears of Stan and Ivan than for the fans, he is warning them.  He wont’ walk, and it will cost the club dear to sack him, and even more to shut him up if he is sacked, if they thought the deal David Dein struck with Bruce Rioch to keep him quiet was expensive, they will be blown away by what it will take to buy Arsene Wenger’s silence.

 

 Who wins this battle of wills may define not only what happens to Arsenal’s season, but for many seasons to come.

 

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Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
Arsenal Times (IP Logged)
21/08/2011 17:43
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:09:05:22:58:18 by Padre Pio.

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
Bee#4 (IP Logged)
21/08/2011 18:01
Wow is that right 1204 views in just over 10 minutes??? eye popping smiley

Well I just don't know what so say really, Eduardo, Speedy and others have said it. Wenger's been communicating to the board with his comments all along it's actually been quite obvious.

I actually could believe 100% that thats what is going on with the club at the minute, It would answer so many things we've all been trying to work out aswell.

Myles has said that theirs a rift between the board and Wenger aswell.

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
celine dion (IP Logged)
21/08/2011 18:03
he could still have bought modest purchases that would be better than what we have (I am thinking Rosicky Chamakh Squillaci) so although this is very interesting and I am sure it is true, I cannot accept that Wenger is blameless in the state of the team. We have a fleecing,cynical board and a manager who has lost his way.

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
Gunners R Us (IP Logged)
21/08/2011 18:12
yeah Celine is a bight right there.
Wenger has relied way too much on both players who are using the club as a stepping stone and those who are injury prone. His tactical decisions have also been suspect for a few years now.

But in all honesty nothing surprises me about what I read above. We are talking about the same manager who would have been willing to pay £20+ on Julio baptista before the loan move took place.

What I want to know is what was the point of the emirates move if we are still not going to be able to compete with the likes of city, chelsea, united? At the moment it seems it was just pure greed...

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
Gerard1893 (IP Logged)
21/08/2011 18:26
The sooner Alisher takes over the better...

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
Padre Pio (IP Logged)
21/08/2011 18:29
If above is true then its time for Wenger to speak out.
It does explain Nasri saga maybe Wenger is trying to provoke them to sack him



Arsenal is a top 16 European club that will remain a top 16 European club and the Emirates is tape-loop that will win trophy after trophy

Nothing will change to stop Arsenal's domination except the ticket prices which must go up so that Wenger can make even more marquee signings.

Kroenke, Gazidis & Wenger are made for each other a glorious triumvirate heading for immortality.

Arsenal’s not a football club it is the one true religion Milton Palmer

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
Chrispy10 (IP Logged)
21/08/2011 18:32
If this is true then it all makes sense now.

I read somewhere in the blogspere today that Mata would be on £55K a week at Chelsea which isn't a lot at all in today's market and must be within our wage structure surely. I've thought for years that we've always punched above our weight as a football club and this is down to one man. It's a really tough time to be a gooner at the moment and we are coming to a crossroads where the future of the club will be essentially decided by what happens in this transfer window. If we dont invest or if your article rings true, and Wenger isn't allowed to invest properly, i fear we will never recover! Sounds like scaremongering? Look at it this way, if we go out of the CL on Wednesday, that's £20m gone and the board will essentially hold back that amount to boost the balance sheet. With no CL football this year, which 'super quality' players will even want to come. Our squad wasn't good enough at the end of last season and come the end of this season where a top 4 finish looks unlikely, will RVP , Vermaelan and Theo want to hang around?
Tough times and I wish I didn't care as much as I do.
COYG

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
Philly the kid (IP Logged)
21/08/2011 18:41
Pretty much to be expected if the article rings true.
If it is true......Good luck Arsene. Hope you win this battle!!

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
Gunner Young (IP Logged)
21/08/2011 19:19
I hope this is true, as the amount of flak that Arsene is getting at the moment from fans/media is reaching biblical proportions. Which makes me quite sad, as I am (and still) a big Wenger supporter.

It goes a long way to explaining Arsene's behaviour and utterences recently. I have no doubt that there is money available. I think Nasri would stay if we offered lower wages then Man City or Man U, but better then our current top of £90k. I think we have as a club punched above our weight under Arsene's stewardship. He's spent so many years with his hand tied because of the Emirates stadium, which he openly embraced, on the assumption that one day we would have the means to compete with the big boys.

Well the day has come, and he should be allowed to have a crack. Unfortunately, American owners of the clubs, are not here as a fan (Chelsea) or state power (Man City) but purely for profit. I would argue that the best way to make profit is to win trophies. If this story is true then Arsene should come out because he needs allies, and I think the majority of the fans would back him.

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
Jonny Bravo (IP Logged)
21/08/2011 19:39
Good article Ed, the scenario you present seems that it could well be the exact situation unfolding at the club.However without been able to reveal your source its very hard to establish the veracity of these statments given the wide number of journos and bloggers who claim to have the insode scoop at this time.
Lets for arguements sake take what you say is a true and that the 4 point plan for the summer was Wenger's objectives I think its fair to say at this moment in time these plans are in disarray.

Point 1-lost one of the best CM in the world and his replacemnt also very likely to leave.In total lost 3 1st team players with only one 1st team player brought in.
Point 2- looks dead in the water unless over the next ten days there is a major drive to get the required quality in.
Point 3/4- I combined these two because their related.Young promising players brought in yes,players promoted yes, but in both cases and with the failure of points 1 and 2 they are been throwin into the deep end straight away as we saw yesterday.


Now if the imminent failure to complete this plan is down to an inpasse between Arsene and the board (and by board I mean Stan) over whther to take this club to the next level, combined with supporter sentiment been at an all time low somethings going to have to give.
Personally I have felt for a long time that the club has lacked any direction at an executive level since the move to the Grove.

The old board seemed happy enough to use the initial period after the move the hide behind the fact we needed to tighten our belts and played on the goodwill towards Arsene to shield themselves from critism over lack of transfer spending.
Now whether it was greed or the sudden realisation that the current sustainable business model could never compete with the rich benefactor clubs one by one the old board came around to the notion of selling out to a billionaire.

While all the boardroom power politics was unfolding upstairs Wenger was pretty much running the club from deciding on the stlye of play to the style of napkins in the club level.This is where I agree with Celine in so far as even if Wenger may had been operating with one hand tied behind his back we had opprotunites to win silverwarwe in 2008 and last season where a few tactical purchases would have got us across the line.
Now we have a billionare on board and while I acknowledge that he aint like the ones at City or Chelsea you have to wonder what exactly his plans are for the club.
Does he plan to invest an inital sum to keep the club competitive while also exploring and exploting new streams of commericial revenue.Or was he simply content to let Wenger keep taking the flack, finishing in the top 4, paying off the debt and punting the club on for a profit in a few years.
So far he has been true to his title,silent, and has let his slick messanger boy Ivan deal with the hard questions from the supporters groups. If you read between the lines from these meetings Ivan has in so many words stated the current sustianable model will not keep this club competitive. If Ivan thought the staus quo could be maintained he has been very much mistaken. The supporters will not tolerate any more excuses and have already began voting with their feet.
This club is very much at a crossroads, its @#$%& or get off the pot time for the new owner.All the good will has been used up, no more spin, no more fudging the issues, start backing up all that talk that were a big club with actions or risk been left behind.

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
AJ The Gunner (IP Logged)
21/08/2011 19:43
since your source is not disclosed, i'm at liberty to take it with pinch of salt...i refuse to make excuses for wenger as regards the recent happenings..you could be right in all your analysis but wenger & board are looking for excuses..who is to blame then...are we not supposed to balance our squad??? keeping a large number of some misfits & paying them the wages that could be used to get in the so called caliber of players needed is what has kept us in this state..

WHAT I ASK IS THIS: CAN ARSENAL STILL ATTRACT THE CALIBER OF PLAYERS THAT WILL TAKE US THE NEXT LEVEL OR HAVE WE BECOME JUST A FEEDER CLUB ATTRACTING PLAYERS WHO ARE LOOKING FOR FLAT FORMS TO STEP UP THEIR CAREERS OR A TRAINING CLUB TO MATURE TO THEIR FULL POTENTIALS?????????



http://i400.photobucket.com/albums/pp87/ajplatinum/FACUPWINNERS.jpg

IT WAS A LONG WAIT BUT IT WAS WORTH IT...GUNNERS FOR LIFE!!

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
eduardo (IP Logged)
21/08/2011 19:54
Arsene will not speak out, like most managers he has a clause in his contract that does not allow him to,(that is why he gets £6M), he will hint, like he did in the last week with his comment about "one day you will know" when talking about the restrictions he works under and how much of an acheivement it really is.

He has also more and more spoken about roles at the club, and that as an employee he will "do his job" and let others get on with theirs.

I agree that he should and could have done more with the players he has, and I would advocate he buys the middle range players the board wants,but this just delays the problems for another year. Wenger is right to want a major signing on major wages, so as to set the trend for both, in so doing he would be able to advocate Vermaelen, RVP etc get the sort of mega contracts here, that they would get elsewhere



*Signing Ozil is a signing Bergkamp type moment for Arsenal. It changes things utterly.*

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
eduardo (IP Logged)
21/08/2011 20:08
I think we are heading for one of two outcomes

1. Wenger accepts that we will not be going up to the mega player wage structure, a couple of good size transfer fee signings will be made to apease fans, and we fight for 3/4 and hope to win a cup

2. Wenger digs in his heels, sticks to wanting only those he wants to sign, we have a bad season, Wenger gets the sack, the board appoints a new manager who will accept the budget as it is, and fans will give this new man a couple of seasons to get it right, and if not another new manager of similar stature comes in, and this goes on till we get the new sponsorship deals done and improve the commercial income enough to allow us to go up a level in spending



*Signing Ozil is a signing Bergkamp type moment for Arsenal. It changes things utterly.*

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
Bee#4 (IP Logged)
21/08/2011 20:10
It's not really an 'analysis' as such though is it. Eduardo's simply passing on what he's heard from his source to us readers.

I think there is so much more underlying issues in this post then to worry about whether we can attract the calibre of players or whether we're a feeder club right about now.

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
Padre Pio (IP Logged)
21/08/2011 20:11
or maybe they give new man the money - thats what often happens



Arsenal is a top 16 European club that will remain a top 16 European club and the Emirates is tape-loop that will win trophy after trophy

Nothing will change to stop Arsenal's domination except the ticket prices which must go up so that Wenger can make even more marquee signings.

Kroenke, Gazidis & Wenger are made for each other a glorious triumvirate heading for immortality.

Arsenal’s not a football club it is the one true religion Milton Palmer

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
eduardo (IP Logged)
21/08/2011 20:13
Sorry about this, but I forgot to include one major point in the the article itself

The reason why Wenger is digging in his heels, is that he now does not have any faith in FIFA/Uefa to enforce the FFP rules, the inaction by them over the city stadium deal, has convinced him that its no good us waiting for a level playing field, we have to act or be left behind.



*Signing Ozil is a signing Bergkamp type moment for Arsenal. It changes things utterly.*

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
eduardo (IP Logged)
21/08/2011 20:21
padre I think it would only look like they have given the new man the money, we would end up signing say a cahill, and parker and virtually nothing changes, neither improve the first team much if at all, wages don't go up, and we still end up in a dog fight to keep our best players.


Having said that, I think Wenger should go with the board and sign the second level player



*Signing Ozil is a signing Bergkamp type moment for Arsenal. It changes things utterly.*

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
Gooner_Sans (IP Logged)
21/08/2011 20:32
Us fans just want to know the truth and where the money is going.

Sounds like we may not hear until Wenger retires, but he will probably be joining the board so may never hear the truth. Respect to Wenger if he is taking all this flak because of the board, but he's spent a lot of money on youth players when he could have spent on senior players too so he cannot be totally blameless imo.

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
eduardo (IP Logged)
21/08/2011 20:40
as I said, there is still a very large budget there, its how it is to be spent is the cause of difference between the two.

For me wenger should stick to his guns on raising player wages, but then spend the rest on who ever he can get for what is left



*Signing Ozil is a signing Bergkamp type moment for Arsenal. It changes things utterly.*

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
Jonny Bravo (IP Logged)
21/08/2011 20:45
I find it very hard tbh to believe the club was naive enough to think the FFP rules were suddenly going to create some sort of footballing utopia where our current financial model would see us dominate world football.
This little world of ours runs on money more specificaly debt.Added to the fact the the worlds footballing governing body runs itslef along the lines of the mafia what chance is there for an equitable run game.Can you invisage a sitation where Barcelona were excluded from the Cl on the basis of their income to expenditure ratio??I cant and if they were Uefa's coporate sponsors for the CL would be running a mile.

Right now the most important thing for the club is winning Wed's game, everything hinges on it.

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
AJ The Gunner (IP Logged)
21/08/2011 20:45
Quote:
Gooner_Sans
Us fans just want to know the truth and where the money is going.
Sounds like we may not hear until Wenger retires, but he will probably be joining the board so may never hear the truth. Respect to Wenger if he is taking all this flak because of the board, but he's spent a lot of money on youth players when he could have spent on senior players too so he cannot be totally blameless imo.

exactly..knowing the Truth won't hurt..

as much as i'm @#$%& with wenger, getting a new manager will be the biggest mistake.



http://i400.photobucket.com/albums/pp87/ajplatinum/FACUPWINNERS.jpg

IT WAS A LONG WAIT BUT IT WAS WORTH IT...GUNNERS FOR LIFE!!

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
HappyGööner (IP Logged)
21/08/2011 20:47
Quote:
Chrispy10
I read somewhere in the blogspere today that Mata would be on £55K a week at Chelsea which isn't a lot at all in today's market and must be within our wage structure surely.

Chrispy, If Mata is being signed for £35m plus, his wages will surely be a lot more than £55K. Wenger wanted Mata but the Board said he'll cost too much. Now Chel$ki comes in with their deep pockets and signs our targets. Now you know why Wenger likes to keep things close to this chest.

In terms of Wenger speaking out, Wenger's not type of to aired Arsenal's dirty laundry in public. He's been getting a lot of flack lately from the fans and media but I really believe that is the Board that is responsible for the mess we're in.

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
eduardo (IP Logged)
21/08/2011 20:49
jonny bravo I don't think that they ever expect the FFP rules would mean AFC would dominate, but they did expect that it would even out the field, and that clubs would have to show some controls on thier spending, and this would aid us but not so much that it would put us in with a major advantage



*Signing Ozil is a signing Bergkamp type moment for Arsenal. It changes things utterly.*

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
Padre Pio (IP Logged)
21/08/2011 20:50
This is what I wrote after tuesdays game "Wenger was ensconced in the top left corner of the directors’ box, flanked by Ivan and Boro. The way he sat facing all match I was surprised he could actually see the game."
Point is he wasd doing everything he could to not look at Gazides, his body language was strange, in fact I made a mistake he put Boro between himsefl and Ivan



Arsenal is a top 16 European club that will remain a top 16 European club and the Emirates is tape-loop that will win trophy after trophy

Nothing will change to stop Arsenal's domination except the ticket prices which must go up so that Wenger can make even more marquee signings.

Kroenke, Gazidis & Wenger are made for each other a glorious triumvirate heading for immortality.

Arsenal’s not a football club it is the one true religion Milton Palmer

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
eduardo (IP Logged)
21/08/2011 20:54
chrispy I think you must have meant to say mata would be on £155K a week



*Signing Ozil is a signing Bergkamp type moment for Arsenal. It changes things utterly.*

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
Padre Pio (IP Logged)
21/08/2011 21:05
People on Twitter are calling for Board to be sacked on twitter



Arsenal is a top 16 European club that will remain a top 16 European club and the Emirates is tape-loop that will win trophy after trophy

Nothing will change to stop Arsenal's domination except the ticket prices which must go up so that Wenger can make even more marquee signings.

Kroenke, Gazidis & Wenger are made for each other a glorious triumvirate heading for immortality.

Arsenal’s not a football club it is the one true religion Milton Palmer

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
Jonny Bravo (IP Logged)
21/08/2011 21:13
I was exagerrating a bit there but I think you get the point.
Besides the CL is one of the causes of the outlandish spending in the first place with clubs trying to get into it(city) and those trying to win it(Barca, Madrid Chelsea)

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
Gunner Young (IP Logged)
21/08/2011 21:13
How about the board and Wenger compromise about the wage structure? Celtic under Peter Lawwell (who was offered the CEO role at Arsenal, but opted to stay with Celtic) has i think a 4 tier pay pyramid. The main problem to iron out in this case, is the relatively high amount of wages we provide to tempt young players to the club. But, this perhaps can be overcome by being more selective in the potential of the player.

The system would enable our very top players to be on a more competitive salary.

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
SamuraisShadow (IP Logged)
21/08/2011 21:23
GUYS, THE REASON HE CAN AFFORD TO SPEND £12M ON OXO IS SIMPLE, THE BOARD WILL PAY HIS WAGES, WHICH AS HE'S YOUNG WILL BE ONLY 15,000 A WEEK OR SIMILAR, BUT A £12M EXPERIENCED PLAYER WOULD COST 50,000 A WEEK

And the board are being idiots by refusing to pay the high wages.

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
goonerluv (IP Logged)
21/08/2011 21:46
Well that has certainly put the cat among the pidgeons, if the loggerhead story is true no wonder WENGER LOOKS NEAR DEATH I would'nt blame him if he did walk, why does he keep saying obtuse things to press conferences, he was obviously very upset re cesc leaving, but he is acting a bit strangly with the press Usinov must be licking his lips, all of a sudden Dein comes out to protect Wenger in the media, something is going on?

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
eduardo (IP Logged)
21/08/2011 21:56
Stan overruled him, he is not used to being overruled, and he is trying to flex his muscles, pity he did not do it a year ago, when he had more power, and a weaker overlord



*Signing Ozil is a signing Bergkamp type moment for Arsenal. It changes things utterly.*

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
Gunners R Us (IP Logged)
21/08/2011 21:58
Still could have signed jagielka and parker combined for 20million and not have the dross we put out on saturday.

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
weedz (IP Logged)
21/08/2011 21:59
Thanx for that Ed. We will find out how good Ivan G is at being our CEO in the next few days, I dare say.



Arsenal are going to win a BIG trophy this season.
Mrs Weedz told me

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
eduardo (IP Logged)
21/08/2011 22:01
GRU tell me would Jags or Parker have played any better than Frimpong and Kos/Miquel, as there was nothing wrong with the central defenders or DM on saturday



*Signing Ozil is a signing Bergkamp type moment for Arsenal. It changes things utterly.*

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
Gunners R Us (IP Logged)
21/08/2011 22:06
Quote:
eduardo
GRU tell me would Jags or Parker have played any better than Frimpong and Kos/Miquel, as there was nothing wrong with the central defenders or DM on saturday

They would not have made the mistakes both players did (to be fair Miquels was hardly a mistake).
Also sticking with Gibbs albeit knowing his injury issues is using the development of a player and their form when fit to cloud your judgement in the window.

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
eduardo (IP Logged)
21/08/2011 22:09
GRU I'm glad you brought up Gibbs, this was something I ment to include in the article, no left back was on list of transfer targets this summer, and this is clearly only down to Wenger, he is not blameless, far from it.



*Signing Ozil is a signing Bergkamp type moment for Arsenal. It changes things utterly.*

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
Rockstaar (IP Logged)
21/08/2011 22:11
don't know of the truth of the article...but its what makes sense either that or Wenger would ave to be bloody lunatic



http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/5066/verminator2.jpg
[arsenalsigs.blogspot.com]

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
Philly the kid (IP Logged)
21/08/2011 22:13
As well as Frimpong played, Parker wouldn't have gotten sent off. That's what experience gives you, Maturity.

Not that i'd want Parker anyway.

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
SamuraisShadow (IP Logged)
21/08/2011 22:19
[bit.ly]

Someone make a facebook group.

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
Gunner Young (IP Logged)
21/08/2011 22:20
Eduardo

Why has this information been leaked to you and not a newspaper or the more well known fan sites? The logic fits in terms of what has been happening, but not sure about the authenticity...

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
Rockstaar (IP Logged)
21/08/2011 22:27
eddy always seems to get these kind of inside information GY...we've gotten steady doses of it for years now



http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/5066/verminator2.jpg
[arsenalsigs.blogspot.com]

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
Padre Pio (IP Logged)
21/08/2011 22:28
Arsenal Times is quite well known thanks and is featured on Newsnow and Twitter



Arsenal is a top 16 European club that will remain a top 16 European club and the Emirates is tape-loop that will win trophy after trophy

Nothing will change to stop Arsenal's domination except the ticket prices which must go up so that Wenger can make even more marquee signings.

Kroenke, Gazidis & Wenger are made for each other a glorious triumvirate heading for immortality.

Arsenal’s not a football club it is the one true religion Milton Palmer

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
SamuraisShadow (IP Logged)
21/08/2011 22:32
May I suggest sending this to a news paper?

One that isn't owned by Murdoch...

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
Boston Gooner (IP Logged)
21/08/2011 22:35
Quote:
Gunner Young
Eduardo
Why has this information been leaked to you and not a newspaper or the more well known fan sites? The logic fits in terms of what has been happening, but not sure about the authenticity...

Another board I visit has it on.
They claim,
A very good source at the club ( yes ) has leaked there is a problem with the board and Wenger over how the transfer funds are spent.



http://i625.photobucket.com/albums/tt338/BostonGooner1/roastspurs.gif

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
eduardo (IP Logged)
21/08/2011 23:02
Gunner Young this was told to me from one gooner to another(we aint friends, just have Arsenal in common and locality), it was not told to me so it could be leaked, as rocky says, I pass on what I'm told, but nothing has ever struck a cord like this, the fellow gooner who is the one with the source may not be pleased if he finds out but as I don't think he is into football blogs and I've never told him I pass it on, maybe he will not find out and will keep giving me some snippets.



*Signing Ozil is a signing Bergkamp type moment for Arsenal. It changes things utterly.*

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
eduardo (IP Logged)
21/08/2011 23:03
Boston which other site has similar thread



*Signing Ozil is a signing Bergkamp type moment for Arsenal. It changes things utterly.*

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
Gööfle11 (IP Logged)
21/08/2011 23:15
Oh what an article. Great work boys.

Hey twitter.



"I painted a sunny day on the insides of my eyelids"

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
Boston Gooner (IP Logged)
21/08/2011 23:17
Quote:
eduardo
Boston which other site has similar thread

Ed,
just read it again and the person who posted it says he got it
of another well respected forum.
If it's this forum I don't know.

Link
[arsenalfc.myfunforum.org]



http://i625.photobucket.com/albums/tt338/BostonGooner1/roastspurs.gif

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
Padre Pio (IP Logged)
21/08/2011 23:48
Well he has got the 4 point format that Eduardo used and I had that by 3:30 today so it must be this forum



Arsenal is a top 16 European club that will remain a top 16 European club and the Emirates is tape-loop that will win trophy after trophy

Nothing will change to stop Arsenal's domination except the ticket prices which must go up so that Wenger can make even more marquee signings.

Kroenke, Gazidis & Wenger are made for each other a glorious triumvirate heading for immortality.

Arsenal’s not a football club it is the one true religion Milton Palmer

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
Jack_is_the_truth (IP Logged)
22/08/2011 00:03
i dont believe any of it



http://usatthebiglead.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/jack-wilshere-goal-vs-marseille-a.gif http://164.177.157.12/img/teams/13.png
The future is now!!!!!!!

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
mapleleafgooner (IP Logged)
22/08/2011 00:09
If this story is true, then bringing in an ally of Wenger like Dein could be a very good thing for the club. Right now, it appears that Wenger is fighting a lone battle against the likes of Silent Stan and Gazidis. Dein with the financial support of Usmanov can be a counterweight to help Wenger.

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
Thetruthisback (IP Logged)
22/08/2011 00:10
I hope the newspapers run with this. Best explanation as to what is going on so far - I'd believe the source.



A man does what he must - in spite of personal consequences, in spite of obstacles and dangers and pressures - and that is the basis of all human morality.
Winston Churchill

http://www.gifsoup.com/imager.php?id=400019&t=o GIFSoup Jose The King.

http://bestsmileys.com/mooners/3.gif

Jose champion, king, legend.

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
Merlion96 (IP Logged)
22/08/2011 00:23
Look like another Rafa vs "Gillett & Hick" drama.

Guess the end result?

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
eduardo (IP Logged)
22/08/2011 00:36
Yes merl I stated that on another thread on AT on the subject, when the board is under pressure the usual fall guy is the manager



*Signing Ozil is a signing Bergkamp type moment for Arsenal. It changes things utterly.*

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
Ares (IP Logged)
22/08/2011 03:48
IS there a prize for the correct answer to eduardos source origin?

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
SandyB (IP Logged)
22/08/2011 04:22
Friendly fire..to keep the tempo up till 31 Aug..absolutely no substance.

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
arsenal009 (IP Logged)
22/08/2011 07:56
This article really puts into perspective what's going on @ Arsenal.

The board is whack. If we were able to keep Nasri & get Mata, just imagine how much stronger we would be this season?

Anyway, I have an article backing this one in which RVP says in an interview back in May that Arsenal need to increase their wage structure to improve:
[www.goal.com]

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
hippogunner (IP Logged)
22/08/2011 07:56
Quote:
Jack_is_the_truth
i dont believe any of it

Why not? It makes sense. Would explain why Wenger has failed to sign the sort of experienced player we need. Or do you think Wenger is mad? Because that would be the most likely explanation regarding his failure to sign any big name players.

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
Chrispy10 (IP Logged)
22/08/2011 08:41
Quote:
eduardo
chrispy I think you must have meant to say mata would be on £155K a week

I'm not going mad

[football-talk.co.uk]

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
karsene16 (IP Logged)
22/08/2011 08:57
At a time we're losing big wages Cesc,Nasri,Eboue, Bendtner,Clichy and promoting kids, we are have conflicts about wages.??????

I think Wenger and the board have a good relationship, Wenger knows what he can and can't do, it's the fact that teams don't want to lose their best players and we don't want to spend over 15mil for one.

Surely we would have been capable of putting Mata on Arshavin's wage and paid 23mil for him, which would be within the wage structure, the more likely outcome is it won't be in Wengers price range, something Chelsea could do for 7 more million.

By the end of the window we'll pick up a few players all under 17mil.



http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e232/karsene/wilshere.jpg?t=1376646952

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
Slordio (IP Logged)
22/08/2011 08:58
The real problem here is stan Kroenke and to a lesser degree gazidis (kroenke's little @#$%&). We have an owner with the means to invest but who is not willing to do so. We have an old khunt of a chairman too.

What we need is for stan to sell his shares to Usmanov and for him to get dein back in as chairman or CEO.

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
Padre Pio (IP Logged)
22/08/2011 09:25
There is no good relationship between Wenger and board, they are not on speaking terms. Wenger turned his back on Gazides for whole of Udinese game, I watched it from my seat.
There are more storioes to come out on this



Arsenal is a top 16 European club that will remain a top 16 European club and the Emirates is tape-loop that will win trophy after trophy

Nothing will change to stop Arsenal's domination except the ticket prices which must go up so that Wenger can make even more marquee signings.

Kroenke, Gazidis & Wenger are made for each other a glorious triumvirate heading for immortality.

Arsenal’s not a football club it is the one true religion Milton Palmer

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
pete59 (IP Logged)
22/08/2011 09:25
great post Eduardo.
The fact that it has received 69000 page views shows what a red hot topic this is.
I had been wondering if Wenger had gone off the deep end and really lost the plot. In any event, even if everything in the post is right, it still doesn't let him off the hook. He could have and should have signed a dominant centre half last season and maybe it wouldn't have gone so pear shaped. He has consistently refused to make top notch purchases when the chance was there, and he has shown an unfathomable loyalty to sub-standard players. Granted, he's done well within a limited budget, but he's now living on past glories.
There are several players in the club who need a good bollocking, to say the least... the lazy Russian prat Arshavin being high on my list.
But more important than anything has been the team's lack of collective bottle when the going gets tough, as it does at the money end of every season. Where does this come from? It has to be Wenger. love them or hate them, Man Utd are nothing if not resilient, they are hard to beat and never give up. It reflects something in Ferguson's character. If only we could say the same about Arsenal!!!!

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
eduardo (IP Logged)
22/08/2011 10:13
Guys I just don't understand why so many of you are putting so much blame on the board for all this, Wenger to me is far more at fault, and is the one causing the row.

Lets look at the situation.

What the board are doing right
On the one hand the board are making very large funds available for transfers and new contracts, so what is wrong with that - NOTHING
The Board want Wenger to buy players who's wages fit in with our wage levels, whats wrong with that - NOTHING
The board actually want signings the calibre of Cahill, Parker and the like, so what's wrong with that - Nothing

What are the board doing wrongThe will not sanction an overhaul of the wage structure, they don't want a whole host of players on mega wages, they see our top level as massive wages in their own right, are they wrong. So whats wrong with that - It probably means we miss out on certain cailbre of signings and that some of our better players will leave for extra cash elsewhere

What is Wenger's role in thisWell he is refusing to buy much needed players, yes they may not be the Benzema's of this world, but do we really need them, it was not the lack of a benzema that cost us trophies last season - no it was the parkers and cahills of this world we lacked

For me the biggest gripe I have with wenger over what I was told yesterday was that THERE WAS NO LEFT BACK on his wanted list this summer - I'm in agreement with him that Gibbs/Traore are due a chance, but both are injury prone, so AW should have had a veteran left back on his wishlist, a squad man just there when needed, so we do not have to play our right back at left back

The big thing I don't understand with all this board bashing is that for me its clear WENGER is the one who has instagated this whole thing, Kroenke overruled him on Nasri and encouraged him to let Cesc go, and FORCED the Asia tour, and this has put Wegner's nose out of joint, and he don't like it, so he is flexing his muscle, and trying to regain the upper hand with the board, but he should know that will not work when you have a single owner in charge



*Signing Ozil is a signing Bergkamp type moment for Arsenal. It changes things utterly.*

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
arsenal009 (IP Logged)
22/08/2011 10:32
@eduardo

So basically, kroenke forced the asia tour. kroenke put up tickets prices to highest in the world. And yet kroenke doesn't want to increase the wage structure...

Seems greedy to me. Wenger wants to improve the team, & if we're a selling club that doesn't like paying players their market value, they will leave & we will never win anything.

Parker got relegated, how the heck is he gonna improve our club. 4th place finish is lame, we need to be challenging for top of league & champions. We can't do that with average players.

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
eduardo (IP Logged)
22/08/2011 10:38
but kroenke is giving wenger much more funds than he has had for years, and when I say parker or cahill, I mean that calibre of player, and for me that would be better in the squad than Denilson and Squillaci, and that improves us, as the article states, the board are willing to up the wage structure slightly, but not to the mega level, is £100K a week not very good wages, even if city and co are paying double that



*Signing Ozil is a signing Bergkamp type moment for Arsenal. It changes things utterly.*

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
Big Guhnz (IP Logged)
22/08/2011 10:42
Quote:
Padre Pio
or maybe they give new man the money - thats what often happens

No manager of the calibre we need after wenger hangs his gloves up would take over without being assured he will have money to spend and I suspect alot of managers would walk under such circumstances.

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
Tha GOONer (IP Logged)
22/08/2011 11:33
This is the most sensible arsenal article I've read my whole life.
This explains EVERYTHING

-transfer market inactivity
-wenger's 'absurd' press conference statements
-all his press conferences have been subliminal messages to the board, ("cesc and nasri leaving will mean we are not a big club"," cesc and nasri not going anywhere" and cesc leaves same day)
-David Dein coming out of nowhere backing arsene and sending subliminal messages to the board.
-Fabregas claiming he couldn't talk because of the clout of secrecy at the club.
-wenger's awkward sitting posture and not even acknowledging Gazidis' presence during the match against Udinese
-Wenger not actually addressing squad deficiencies, and looking for 'super quality', better than what we have.

I could go on and on, this board is actually comfortable with making profits at the expense of success.
I feel so sad for Wenger, he totally hates losing, his frustration is obvious at every loss
Like Dein said, the greatest mistake this club would make is losing Arsene, and I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't renew his contract.
Like Wenger said in a recent press conference, everything will come out sometime in the future. And everyone (press, fans and neutrals) would understand and appreciate him.

As much as I'm not a fan of Usmanov, this present board can not guarantee us success on the pitch.
Are Usmanov and Dein the answer??

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
celine dion (IP Logged)
22/08/2011 11:53
i think it is a very interesting angle which Eduardo has taken with his further post.

Gut feeling for most people here would be to feel sorry for Wenger but thats not the way I see this necessarily.

There isnt really any reason why Kroenke should be paying 180 grand a week, only City and Chelsea do this.

There are plenty of improvements that could be made to this squad with 15-20 mil purchases and wages in the region of 80-100 grand a week. Wenger thinks his existing players, who might i remind you are on a run of 2 wins in 16 league games, are a lot better than they are.

This is dog in the manger stuff from Wenger. Like when you are a little kid and you ask for a big present and your mum offers you a smaller compromise and you go in a strop and say you dont want anything at all.

thats not to say I like the board, I dont like their ticket strategy at all, but I dont know why we should expect them to be entering oil sheik territory - they never said they would in the first place.

 
eduardo
pete59 (IP Logged)
22/08/2011 12:05
So what's next lads? If Wenger refuses to bring in at least one or two tough centre backs and one defensive midfielders he should be sacked. NO MORE EXCUSES!!

Jesus wept!!!! No more @#$%& excuses!!!! Sack him, bring in someone like Moyes, give him a substantial budget and give him a year to sort out the squad. I'll bet he could do it and toughen up our team of pansies

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
Thetruthisback (IP Logged)
22/08/2011 12:28
SOS Jose Mourinho!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



A man does what he must - in spite of personal consequences, in spite of obstacles and dangers and pressures - and that is the basis of all human morality.
Winston Churchill

http://www.gifsoup.com/imager.php?id=400019&t=o GIFSoup Jose The King.

http://bestsmileys.com/mooners/3.gif

Jose champion, king, legend.

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
Simon68 (IP Logged)
22/08/2011 12:33
I think the one mistake that people have been and are making is in the assumption that things are absolute. That Chelsea came in and bought their way to trophies and assumed 'big club' status, which they did, is undeniable, although the latter is true only insofar as they have an owner with almost unlimitless funds, football wise. Arsene Wenger knew that we could not compete against this model and therefore took an almost diametrically opposite view and acted accordingly. Long-term, new stadium, organic growth, sustainable business model etc. Abramovich instructed Kenyon to have Chelsea breaking even (on a seasonal basis) by 2010. Complete pie in the sky. However, it appeared Abramovich did have some effect, as they had only posted a £43m loss in 2010 (I think).

If things had remained the same, the fact that we hardly had a pot to p*ss in from 2003 onwards, and hadn't won a pot to p*ss in from 2005 until 2009 wouldn't have mattered. Success would have followed, without us having to make signings for Berbatov money. However, with the advent of the Middle Eastlands takeover, the landscape totally changed.

From the transfer market settling down in relative terms, apart from one or two big money signings, it was blown apart by ManCiteh who have spent fortunes on players, paying twice their worth for many of them, just as Chelsea did when Abramovich saved them first from liquidation and then went on his spending spree.

Probably more important than the transfer fees themselves are the wages that go with it. Do you think for a minute David Silva, Tevez or Yaya Toure would have gone there if they hadn't been offered £180k to £220k pw as is largely accepted they do earn? Who was it who said the other day that on top of that ManCiteh are paying the £1m yearly rent on Toure's house?

So what have Chelsea and ManU done in response? Straight out of the window have gone the improved good housekeeping money rules and straight into spend spend spend keep up with the Arabs mode. What other business could announce the equivalent of signing two players for a combined cost of £73m while on the same day announce a yearly loss of £70m as Chelsea did? On top of that Torres is quite likely to be earning a basic of approaching £8m per year and Luiz another £5m. They have signed an unproven 18 year old for £18m and are after Modric for £30m and appear to be signing Mata for another £30m or so. ManU have signed £55m worth of players, two of which are relatively unproven and are prepared to pay £35m for Schneider.

While the rest of the World and its economies go to sh*t, football clubs are going mad.

When UEFA announced it's FFP initiative, everyone was in agreement (including UEFA) that Arsenal, above all other top clubs was in the best position as the best run, most self-sustaining club.

Now it appears, and I hope I am completely wrong, that the rules are not worth the paper they are written on.

These are the changing scenarios that Arsene Wenger and Arsenal have to put up with.

1) To attract new players of top quality, the parasite agents demands for extortionate wages have to be satisfied. 2) To attract new players of top quality, the selling clubs inflated prices have to be met.

3) To keep top players, see 1) above.

Do we swim with the prevailing tide and give in to these demands or do we battle on against them in the vain hope that someone, somewhere will seize power and take a stand against the greed and corruption amongst officials, owners, agents and players?

If it's the former, where does the money come from? Stan won't fund it, so do we just raise ticket prices or raise the money from the issue of a bond scheme. Or any of the other ways that ManU have done to keep up with ManCiteh and Chelsea on the spending front and try to catch up with the debt laden Barcelona on the playing front?

Wenger wants 'super quality' players. The Board won't, it seems, pay the fee and wages price. Wenger doesn't want to pay over the odds for squad players. We want players in. Anyone it seems. Any signing.

I want players in to improve our match day squad and be excellent replacements for the many injuries and spurious sendings off we incur, which are seemingly inevitable. If we signed Cahill, Jagielka or Samba are they going to displace TV5 or Kos? Not in my opinion. So why spend so much of the transfer and wages budget on overpriced reserves? Do we need an attacking central midfielder of top quality? Yes. Should we pay what is necessary? Yes. Should it have been Mata? Probably, from what I've heard about him. Do we need a centre forward like a Benzema? Yes. Do we need a reasonably priced, experienced centre half not in Squillaci mould? Yes.

But it all costs money. We have some, but when, as we well know, other clubs follow what players we are looking at and have the capability to offer twice what we can, whether wage wise or transfer fee wise, or both, because money means nothing to them, then what chance do we have?

It's all very well saying sack the Board, but who is the Board? Stan Kroenke is the Board. Just him. No-one else matters. Whose going to sack him? Himself? Why doesn't he pay off what remains of our debt and just pay himself back over the same period, interest free? And when he sells Arsenal in the future, have an agreement that he is paid back the balance in full by the new owner? That would release more funds for use on the playing side. Why won't he do this? Because it's not in his interests to, that's why. He's got billions at his disposal potentially from the Wal-Mart empire, but have we seen a bean on the playing side? No, because it's not in his interests.

The way it is currently I'm afraid, what with Liverpool one day getting it right having spent loads of money with debt seeming to be just an occupational minor inconvenience, is that unless our youth policy comes up trumps we are facing a future watching other clubs buy success without giving it a thought while we watch great football without trophies to show for it.

Maybe there is method in Wenger's apparent madness in signing AOC, Ryo, Campbell and Jenkinson, as he sees the writing on the wall and that buying players young is the only option.

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
Thetruthisback (IP Logged)
22/08/2011 12:53
Great read, Simon, well done.



A man does what he must - in spite of personal consequences, in spite of obstacles and dangers and pressures - and that is the basis of all human morality.
Winston Churchill

http://www.gifsoup.com/imager.php?id=400019&t=o GIFSoup Jose The King.

http://bestsmileys.com/mooners/3.gif

Jose champion, king, legend.

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
karsene16 (IP Logged)
22/08/2011 12:55
Quote:
Simon68
Arsene Wenger knew that we could not compete against this model and therefore took an almost diametrically opposite view and acted accordingly. Long-term, new stadium, organic growth, sustainable business model etc.

I may have read it wrong but are you suggesting Wenger thought of the idea to build the stadium because I absolutely don't understand it.

posted this earlier...

[www.thefootballnetwork.net]

To put it simply, the board saw Wenger wasn't spending much so decided to start the project. Wenger has always been a pawn in their plans.



http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e232/karsene/wilshere.jpg?t=1376646952

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
Simon68 (IP Logged)
22/08/2011 13:05
It was Wenger's suggestion that we needed a new stadium to compete with the artificial spending power of Chelsea and ManU.

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
Billythekid (IP Logged)
22/08/2011 13:13
yes that is correct, it was Wengers idea but we are not competing are we ?!

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
karsene16 (IP Logged)
22/08/2011 13:26
could have been anyones idea as we were playing CL games without the regulation size pitch and 20,000 on the season ticket waiting list.



http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e232/karsene/wilshere.jpg?t=1376646952



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:08:22:13:35:57 by karsene16.

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
astorman (IP Logged)
22/08/2011 13:38
This article rings true, and it is the most likely scenario causing the current situation. When you run a talent based business, there are only two things that matter: Having the reputation to attract the right kind of talent, and having the money to pay them to come to work for you. Arsenal HAD the reputation which is why so many young players wanted to go there. But starting with Ashley Cole, Arsenal have refused to pay market price in terms of wages to experienced players. And in hindsight, selling players like Viera and Henry had more to do with the weekly wages they earned then with their age. You don't see Man U selling off players like Scholes and Giggs when they get older do you? Or Chelsea selling Drogba or Lampard? They bring other players in and put them in reduced roles because they are willing to pay for experience and continuity.

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
eduardo (IP Logged)
22/08/2011 13:40
celine I think you were the only to realise that the article was not an analysis by me of the situation but a relaying of info obtained, and that yes my stance in this is unlike most others here, is with the board, (maybe it was cos most view me as an AKB they jumped to the conclusion that it was anti board article)

we should not need to sign mega players, or pay obscene wages, I actually wonder does wenger not trust his judgement when it comes to mid range signings, he still knows a good young one when he sees one, and of course like most he knows an outstanding player when he sees one, but its the ones that could be great or could be kack that he is unsure of, and is afraid to gamble £15M - £20M plus high wages on, he would rather play safe with young cheap signings, or go all out with a mega signing £25M - £40M with massive wages, just a thought



*Signing Ozil is a signing Bergkamp type moment for Arsenal. It changes things utterly.*

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
mickycL (IP Logged)
22/08/2011 13:51
[sup][/sup]

Not sure about the supposed conflict between Wenger and the board, before the game on Saturday Sky showed Wenger in the Directors lounge talking to Ivan quite happily with his hand on the middle of his back. No sign of any problems, infact they both seemed quite happy and relaxed in each others company.

I think it's a PR article for Arsene supporters !!

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
Jonny Bravo (IP Logged)
22/08/2011 13:57
This article certainly has legs Ed, even your old friend Myles is referencing it!

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
eduardo (IP Logged)
22/08/2011 14:02
ah jonny I knew there would be a downside(Sm126)



*Signing Ozil is a signing Bergkamp type moment for Arsenal. It changes things utterly.*

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
Jonny Bravo (IP Logged)
22/08/2011 14:18
We must be in deeper @#$%& than we thought if you and Myles are singing off the same hymm sheet!(Sm100)

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
mihkel (IP Logged)
22/08/2011 15:08
what's the use of buying the 15-20 million players if in a two years time they want to double their wages and our wage structure doesn't allow it and we have to let them go and start all over. as was with adebayor, now with nasri. as much as i hate those greedy players who doesn't have any loyalty, but that's what the situation is nowadays in football. i think wenger is just getting tired of this same old s*it. buy a relatively cheap player, make hima a star and then sell him cos the club won'p pay the wages others are willing to pay. you can't build a team if you're selling your best players every year, simple as that.

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
Thetruthisback (IP Logged)
22/08/2011 15:18
Some great comments - this article has really set tongues wagging. So much food for thought. I bet the board are absolutely sick. There is no way that snake Gazidis doesn't check this site out.



A man does what he must - in spite of personal consequences, in spite of obstacles and dangers and pressures - and that is the basis of all human morality.
Winston Churchill

http://www.gifsoup.com/imager.php?id=400019&t=o GIFSoup Jose The King.

http://bestsmileys.com/mooners/3.gif

Jose champion, king, legend.

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
mihkel (IP Logged)
22/08/2011 15:19
i guess wenger has finally realized that having a core of english players goes a long way of keeping the squad together as you don't see big english players moving too often to other top english clubs or abroad like internationals do when real, barca, ac milan or whoever comes calling. so now he's trying to build a new squad with wilshere, rambo, gibbs, frimpong, AOC, jenkinson etc. thank god for that.

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
younghansolo (IP Logged)
22/08/2011 20:23
Ed, legrove all over twitter calling you a liar. You want me to beat them up for you?

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
eduardo (IP Logged)
22/08/2011 20:55
I could give two f ucks what le grove or anyone thinks, I believe the guy who told me, I know who his source is at the club and see no reason why he would make it up. Any info got from him in the past has been spot on.



*Signing Ozil is a signing Bergkamp type moment for Arsenal. It changes things utterly.*

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
celine dion (IP Logged)
22/08/2011 20:58
By the way Ed, bad news, Ive just been talking to PP, remember he said the hit counter was playing up yesterday, well its gone wrong on this article, it should say 150.

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
eduardo (IP Logged)
22/08/2011 21:49
yeah celine its 150, thats why the club is having a cow over it



*Signing Ozil is a signing Bergkamp type moment for Arsenal. It changes things utterly.*

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
arsenal009 (IP Logged)
22/08/2011 22:10
@mihkel

rambo is not english. gibbs & walcott suck. we haven't even seen aoc play. jenkinson would prefer to play for sweden. frimpong states that he would even walk to ghana if he was called up by them.

and if u don't remember, it was a. hole that started the whole leaving arsenal for $$ bit.

bottom line is, when wenger buys players for cheap, they end up leaving when they become stars cause the board don't want to pay them their market value. we r always profitable in the transfer window, we raised ticket prices, we raised food prices @ the stadium, & we hit up asia for a tour to make $$. with all this added cash, why does the board not increase the wage scale so we can keep our best players?? how r we expected to compete when we lose 1 or 2 of our best players every season??



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:08:22:23:17:32 by arsenal009.

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
Padre Pio (IP Logged)
23/08/2011 00:03
I think Wenger might be reading this so i will say Fabreags didnt leave over money, he took a wage cut



Arsenal is a top 16 European club that will remain a top 16 European club and the Emirates is tape-loop that will win trophy after trophy

Nothing will change to stop Arsenal's domination except the ticket prices which must go up so that Wenger can make even more marquee signings.

Kroenke, Gazidis & Wenger are made for each other a glorious triumvirate heading for immortality.

Arsenal’s not a football club it is the one true religion Milton Palmer

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
Merlion96 (IP Logged)
23/08/2011 00:41
It will be lovely to hear Wenger's comments during Udinese's post-match interview, and also hsi regular Friday "Meet-the-Press".

I am sure many jurno are dying to get a question in over this "loggerhead" saga.

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
Thetruthisback (IP Logged)
23/08/2011 00:47
Wenger says he only wants players that will improve the squad: does that mean he thinks the injury prone Gibbs is better than Enrique? Just if Wenger is reading this.



A man does what he must - in spite of personal consequences, in spite of obstacles and dangers and pressures - and that is the basis of all human morality.
Winston Churchill

http://www.gifsoup.com/imager.php?id=400019&t=o GIFSoup Jose The King.

http://bestsmileys.com/mooners/3.gif

Jose champion, king, legend.

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
Padre Pio (IP Logged)
23/08/2011 01:08
i now understand Wenger he is saying he wants big ticket items - not players on a similar level



Arsenal is a top 16 European club that will remain a top 16 European club and the Emirates is tape-loop that will win trophy after trophy

Nothing will change to stop Arsenal's domination except the ticket prices which must go up so that Wenger can make even more marquee signings.

Kroenke, Gazidis & Wenger are made for each other a glorious triumvirate heading for immortality.

Arsenal’s not a football club it is the one true religion Milton Palmer

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
Merlion96 (IP Logged)
23/08/2011 01:16
Quote:
Thetruthis
Wenger says he only wants players that will improve the squad: does that mean he thinks the injury prone Gibbs is better than Enrique? Just if Wenger is reading this.

E.g.

1 - Gibbs
2 - Traore
3 - Vermaelen
4 - Jenkinson
5 - Sagna
6 - Botelho

Why should Wenger waste 10-mil on a lB where Gibbs and traore will provide adequate cover till Botelho gains a EU passport by January 2012 and ready to return to Arsenal?

Similarly, recalled Wenger's past statements that he will give all his yougnsters a run of 12 games to prove themselves before he review the situation the necessity of buying in January transfer window.

Remember, this same situaiton occurred in 2007/08 seaosn over Flamini and he was given an opportunity to establish himself as DCM when everyone of us was crying for a DCM to replace Gilberto!!!!

You will never which of them or both - Gibbs or Traore - will improve when given a run of 12 no. consecutive games to prove themselves.

Wenger is obsessively loyal to hsi youngsters and will give them every opportunity to prove themselves.

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
Thetruthisback (IP Logged)
23/08/2011 01:19
Quote:
Merlion96
Quote:
Thetruthis
Wenger says he only wants players that will improve the squad: does that mean he thinks the injury prone Gibbs is better than Enrique? Just if Wenger is reading this.

E.g.

1 - Gibbs
2 - Traore
3 - Vermaelen
4 - Jenkinson
5 - Sagna
6 - Botelho

Why should Wenger waste 10-mil on a lB where Gibbs and traore will provide adequate cover till Botelho gains a EU passport by January 2012 and ready to return to Arsenal?

Similarly, recalled Wenger's past statements that he will give all his yougnsters a run of 12 games to prove themselves before he review the situation the necessity of buying in January transfer window.

Remember, this same situaiton occurred in 2007/08 seaosn over Flamini and he was given an opportunity to establish himself as DCM when everyone of us was crying for a DCM to replace Gilberto!!!!

You will never which of them or both - Gibbs or Traore - will improve when given a run of 12 no. consecutive games to prove themselves.

Wenger is obsessively loyal to hsi youngsters and will give them every opportunity to prove themselves.

Fair enough I suppose.



A man does what he must - in spite of personal consequences, in spite of obstacles and dangers and pressures - and that is the basis of all human morality.
Winston Churchill

http://www.gifsoup.com/imager.php?id=400019&t=o GIFSoup Jose The King.

http://bestsmileys.com/mooners/3.gif

Jose champion, king, legend.

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
SandyB (IP Logged)
23/08/2011 04:29
Quote:
What the board are doing right
On the one hand the board are making very large funds available for transfers and new contracts, so what is wrong with that - NOTHING
The Board want Wenger to buy players who's wages fit in with our wage levels, whats wrong with that - NOTHING
The board actually want signings the calibre of Cahill, Parker and the like, so what's wrong with that - Nothing

lol..I don't know what new spin is this Eduardo, board is offering large funds available?? Buying 4 players spending £24 million and then pocketing 42 million from the sell of Fabregas and Clichy hardly you will call making large sum available.

Eduardo, you can spin even bigger than Wenger or board and get 100,000 hits..lol..but you can't hide from the fact my friend. Things are going to come out as it is by 31 Aug, don't forget both Wenger and the club have to get results on the pitch and that's not easy. You don't deal with Arsenal fans to get results on the pitch. I think the issue of Wenger and Stan are just the chicken and the egg story..team doesn't perform on the pitch eventually both have to go..probably one will go and the other one will RUN. So stop the@#$%&and it's Wenger's job is now to figure out how to do well on the pitch to at least bring back the club to a respectable position on the pitch by winning some fuc,king matches and that's not easy my friend.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011:08:23:04:30:44 by SandyB.

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
gabrielsilence (IP Logged)
23/08/2011 04:58
There is one word to explain the seemingly inexplicable stupidity with which Arsenal Football Club is being run: greed. The owners are playing the fans for suckers. They have a great manager who for 10 years led brilliant teams that stood eye to eye with Manchester United and came out on top. The board capitalized on Wenger’s brilliance and decided they had a great opportunity to squeeze as much money from the fans as they could by buying young players and comparing them to the invincibles or at other times to Scholes, Keane and Giggs when they first started playing at Manchester United (seriously we used to hear that all the time. Remember when Diaby would say, hey don’t compare me to Vieira…I was like don’t worry about it, you aren’t fit to tie Patrick’s shoes!) We have all heard the same line summer after summer: next year this brilliant young team will finally come good. It’s been 5 summers now. The board then takes the transfer fees (from Henry, Vieira, Adebayor, etc.) and gate receipts and just pockets them, without giving back anything to the club. Wenger to his credit was able to keep the charade going for a few years with Fabregas and van Persie and now Wilshere. So the board (and Wenger) continued to lie and say how close Arsenal were to building a team of champions, when their real motivation was to play the fans for fools and sucker them into paying the highest ticket prices and buying new kits every year. Seriously you don’t play Almunia and Squilacci if you are a football club that cares about winning, you just don’t. Period. End of discussion.

The board is taking in record profits and the fans have to watch teenagers placed in positions they shouldn’t be that early in their careers. Greed pure and simple is the cause of Arsenal’s fall. Wenger can hold press conferences every summer and tell to the fans about how there are going to be new “big” signings only to turn around and say we can't buy anyone because it would "kill" the other players—why?, because he himself is getting a massive, massive pay check. If the board doesn’t take the Fabregas and Nasri money and re-invest it in the club, then all true Arsenal fans should boycott for the sake of the club. Because Arsenal Football Club is a great football club and not an ATM for Silent Stan and that fool Hill-Wood. The board has chosen short term profits over the club’s future. The board has chosen greed over football. When Arsene talks about how great it is to finish fourth every year…think about it. It’s 20 million more in the pockets of the owners. Here is the ironic thing: without a result at Udinese there isn’t going to be anymore Champions League money….Greed often has a way of turning on the greedy.

Cesc and Samir knew what was going on, and van Persie does too, make no mistake about it. It’s time the fans let the board know we know what’s going on too.

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
Optimistic Gunner (IP Logged)
23/08/2011 05:59
Quote:
celine dion
I cannot accept that Wenger is blameless in the state of the team. We have a fleecing,cynical board and a manager who has lost his way.

Agreed.


Quote:
Gunners R Us
What I want to know is what was the point of the emirates move if we are still not going to be able to compete with the likes of city, chelsea, united? At the moment it seems it was just pure greed...

Exactly.

Whether what eduardo claims in this article is true or not (most of it is probably true), one thing is for sure and that is that this season will have a huge effect on the future of our club, for the better or for the worse.



http://oi42.tinypic.com/zsprti.jpg

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
younghansolo (IP Logged)
23/08/2011 09:23
Quote:
eduardo
I could give two f ucks what le grove or anyone thinks, I believe the guy who told me, I know who his source is at the club and see no reason why he would make it up. Any info got from him in the past has been spot on.

sooo..you don't want me to beat them up? ok no probs.

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
litmus (IP Logged)
23/08/2011 10:56
Ed, from your source, can you let us know if the Hazard rumour is indeed true? So, if we do get past Udinese, have far off are we in getting him? Or is the rumor just BS?

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
Slordio (IP Logged)
23/08/2011 12:07
Gabrielsilece I agree. i think the fans should be protesting against Kroeke, his little bi*ch gazidis and that khunt Hill Wood rather than against Wenger. I'd like to see something organised.

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
Bergmars (IP Logged)
23/08/2011 14:39
Quote:
Simon68
I think the one mistake that people have been and are making is in the assumption that things are absolute. That Chelsea came in and bought their way to trophies and assumed 'big club' status, which they did, is undeniable, although the latter is true only insofar as they have an owner with almost unlimitless funds, football wise. Arsene Wenger knew that we could not compete against this model and therefore took an almost diametrically opposite view and acted accordingly. Long-term, new stadium, organic growth, sustainable business model etc. Abramovich instructed Kenyon to have Chelsea breaking even (on a seasonal basis) by 2010. Complete pie in the sky. However, it appeared Abramovich did have some effect, as they had only posted a £43m loss in 2010 (I think).
If things had remained the same, the fact that we hardly had a pot to p*ss in from 2003 onwards, and hadn't won a pot to p*ss in from 2005 until 2009 wouldn't have mattered. Success would have followed, without us having to make signings for Berbatov money. However, with the advent of the Middle Eastlands takeover, the landscape totally changed.

From the transfer market settling down in relative terms, apart from one or two big money signings, it was blown apart by ManCiteh who have spent fortunes on players, paying twice their worth for many of them, just as Chelsea did when Abramovich saved them first from liquidation and then went on his spending spree.

Probably more important than the transfer fees themselves are the wages that go with it. Do you think for a minute David Silva, Tevez or Yaya Toure would have gone there if they hadn't been offered £180k to £220k pw as is largely accepted they do earn? Who was it who said the other day that on top of that ManCiteh are paying the £1m yearly rent on Toure's house?

So what have Chelsea and ManU done in response? Straight out of the window have gone the improved good housekeeping money rules and straight into spend spend spend keep up with the Arabs mode. What other business could announce the equivalent of signing two players for a combined cost of £73m while on the same day announce a yearly loss of £70m as Chelsea did? On top of that Torres is quite likely to be earning a basic of approaching £8m per year and Luiz another £5m. They have signed an unproven 18 year old for £18m and are after Modric for £30m and appear to be signing Mata for another £30m or so. ManU have signed £55m worth of players, two of which are relatively unproven and are prepared to pay £35m for Schneider.

While the rest of the World and its economies go to sh*t, football clubs are going mad.

When UEFA announced it's FFP initiative, everyone was in agreement (including UEFA) that Arsenal, above all other top clubs was in the best position as the best run, most self-sustaining club.

Now it appears, and I hope I am completely wrong, that the rules are not worth the paper they are written on.

These are the changing scenarios that Arsene Wenger and Arsenal have to put up with.

1) To attract new players of top quality, the parasite agents demands for extortionate wages have to be satisfied. 2) To attract new players of top quality, the selling clubs inflated prices have to be met.

3) To keep top players, see 1) above.

Do we swim with the prevailing tide and give in to these demands or do we battle on against them in the vain hope that someone, somewhere will seize power and take a stand against the greed and corruption amongst officials, owners, agents and players?

If it's the former, where does the money come from? Stan won't fund it, so do we just raise ticket prices or raise the money from the issue of a bond scheme. Or any of the other ways that ManU have done to keep up with ManCiteh and Chelsea on the spending front and try to catch up with the debt laden Barcelona on the playing front?

Wenger wants 'super quality' players. The Board won't, it seems, pay the fee and wages price. Wenger doesn't want to pay over the odds for squad players. We want players in. Anyone it seems. Any signing.

I want players in to improve our match day squad and be excellent replacements for the many injuries and spurious sendings off we incur, which are seemingly inevitable. If we signed Cahill, Jagielka or Samba are they going to displace TV5 or Kos? Not in my opinion. So why spend so much of the transfer and wages budget on overpriced reserves? Do we need an attacking central midfielder of top quality? Yes. Should we pay what is necessary? Yes. Should it have been Mata? Probably, from what I've heard about him. Do we need a centre forward like a Benzema? Yes. Do we need a reasonably priced, experienced centre half not in Squillaci mould? Yes.

But it all costs money. We have some, but when, as we well know, other clubs follow what players we are looking at and have the capability to offer twice what we can, whether wage wise or transfer fee wise, or both, because money means nothing to them, then what chance do we have?

It's all very well saying sack the Board, but who is the Board? Stan Kroenke is the Board. Just him. No-one else matters. Whose going to sack him? Himself? Why doesn't he pay off what remains of our debt and just pay himself back over the same period, interest free? And when he sells Arsenal in the future, have an agreement that he is paid back the balance in full by the new owner? That would release more funds for use on the playing side. Why won't he do this? Because it's not in his interests to, that's why. He's got billions at his disposal potentially from the Wal-Mart empire, but have we seen a bean on the playing side? No, because it's not in his interests.

The way it is currently I'm afraid, what with Liverpool one day getting it right having spent loads of money with debt seeming to be just an occupational minor inconvenience, is that unless our youth policy comes up trumps we are facing a future watching other clubs buy success without giving it a thought while we watch great football without trophies to show for it.

Maybe there is method in Wenger's apparent madness in signing AOC, Ryo, Campbell and Jenkinson, as he sees the writing on the wall and that buying players young is the only option.

Fantastic read and all pretty much true,the only point I would comment on is the signing of the young guys,its almost a fruitless quest because when they fulfill their promise said moneybags will poach them.



DB10,the best.

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
Thetruthisback (IP Logged)
23/08/2011 16:16
Talking about WENGER on Talkshite at the moment.



A man does what he must - in spite of personal consequences, in spite of obstacles and dangers and pressures - and that is the basis of all human morality.
Winston Churchill

http://www.gifsoup.com/imager.php?id=400019&t=o GIFSoup Jose The King.

http://bestsmileys.com/mooners/3.gif

Jose champion, king, legend.

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
Philly the kid (IP Logged)
23/08/2011 19:48
^the clue is in the name.

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
Simon68 (IP Logged)
24/08/2011 11:56
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive new
Posted by: Bergmars (IP Logged)
Date: 23 August, 2011 14:39

Fantastic read and all pretty much true,the only point I would comment on is the signing of the young guys,its almost a fruitless quest because when they fulfill their promise said moneybags will poach them.


Thankyou mate and good point, but it does lead me to wonder that the reason he is developing and giving a chance to homegrown British players like Young Jack, Gibbs, Ramsey, AOC, Frimpong, Jenkinson, Afobe etc and players of character like Chezney is that there is less chance of their heads being turned by the stupid money on offer at other clubs.

That way the important thing is the football itself and they can develop into a force as opposed to being disrupted like we are now.

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
Bergmars (IP Logged)
24/08/2011 14:04
I hope so.



DB10,the best.

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
rodeo (IP Logged)
24/08/2011 15:10
A very good article all in all but actually slightly misleading and sensationalist as well.

Firstly, there is absolutely no doubt that Wenger has funds to pay transfer fees, however this is simply because it is A CONDITION of the stadium finance bonds that all funds raised from player sales CAN ONLY be used to improve the squad. Not only does Arsene therefore have access to funds, but the club have it IN CASH in a bank account at his disposal - because put quite simply they aren't allowed to do anything else with the money! Don't take my word for it Arsenal's accounts are published on arsenal.com - what do you think a club with £300m in debt is doing with "Cash and Liquid Assets (treasury bonds) of £100m?

Odd? - When you think about it - it does make sense the bondholders wanted to ensure there was no possibility of someone selling all the players pocketing the cash and leave the bond holders high and dry without substantial assets for their money. Note Ashburton Grove stadium is worth precisely nothing - sure its worth £400m to US, but who else is going to want a football stadium and Islington wouldn't let it be anything else!

Since Arsenal's policy is to develop youth it makes sense that they make actually reasonably significant amounts from player sales, and we all know how shrewd Arsene has been in the market and how he makes about £20m per year (£20 x 5 = £100m).

When Arsene says he has money to spend - that is therefore true, when the Board says he has money to spend that is also true.

Clearly however there is a disparity in wages, especially of the top earners and whilst yes, we would all like to see the best talent money can buy on our pitch every Saturday the fact is that squads win things, not teams and Arsene (for all his faults) has built a top-quality squad. Witness Bendtner who we all laugh at and can't get a game, but there is talk of him flying into the first team of any number of Premiership teams with a price tag of around £11m.

This is the reason that Arsenal spend over £100m on wages each year (slightly more than half our turnover), (the fourth highest in the premiership) theirin is the problem.

Arsene is right to contest that these days to attract and retain top quality £100k / week simply isn't enough, but the board are also right to say, that the club has to be sustainable in the long term. Just bringing in two players on a salary of £200k / week (relatively modest given that Eto is on £500k / week) increases that wage bill by £20m per year - not an insignificant sum and one that has to be paid EVERY year. To put it into context to get that kind of money out of the Premiership games every year Arsenal would have to DOUBLE the cost of your tickets, your pint and your pie!

Now don't get me wrong, I am no different from the next fan, Silent Stan could put in the money (he's got enough of it in his own right but he could always ask his missus to lend him a cpl billion if he's short) and we could go buy a bunch of players and have a better team. What we wouldn't have is a better club - one that stood by its principles (and guns) and one that is going to be around not just for my children to enjoy but my children's children.

You see the trouble with pumping money into a football club as they have found out over at Chelski, is that no matter how deep your benefactors pockets, there is always someone out there, with even deeper pockets and since players are fundamentally greedy (a different topic admittedly - loved Redknapps comments about Mata not going to Chelsea for the trophies but about the money) clubs run "for profit" (or in actuality not to make a massive loss) are always going to be up against it Arsenal is among their number.

The Elephant in the room of course is the Uefa Financial Fair play initiative. IF (and that really is a big IF) they are applied as they should be then Arsenal WILL win the Champions League, because they will be BY FAR the best team in it. To be absolutley fair to the @#$%&, it is more or less a certainty that we will beat Spurs in the final. It may well be an Arsenal-Spurs Champions league final for years to come, with a possible occasional look in for Bayern Munich who (being German) will no doubt get their ducks in a row before anyone else does.

Best team in the Champions league I hear you scoff? Well, IF Ueafa are to be believed yes, because Madrid, Barca, Man U, Man City, Liverpool, Chelsea, PSG, Juve and both Milans won't be playing - and they are just the ones I have looked at. A lot of fans seem to want to win a trophy "at all costs". Well here's an idea - petition Platini and his chums to apply the rules and WE WILL WIN - it won't of course have the same kudos as winning a tournament with Barca et al in it AT THE TIME, but it will still have the Arsenal name on the trophy.

I console myself in the knowledge that if Arsenal continues to be run the way it is then my childrens children will be watching them lift (the occasional) title. Not only that but Chelsea, Man City, Man United et al, will be talked about with due reference to their historical (as opposed current) status. "They were a massive team once upon a time you know" they will whisper in pubs about Chelsea, Man City, ManU et al, the same way we do about Notts County, Wolves, Notts Forest and Dulwich Hamlet.

Lets not forget guys, that if we avoid relegation this year and next we will celebrate a centenary of top flight football. Arsenal have never overpaid for players and I sincerely hope that they never do.

And one final thought, the Chelski's and the Mancy's might have all the bling but our club has something they will never have - class!

Rod

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
RadioFreeArsenal (IP Logged)
24/08/2011 15:25
And that is how we should want to win the Champions league - when the best teams are banned from it? How gallant and sporting is that? It's one thing to beat a lesser light in the final because the better teams were knockjed out earlier but if that is something to be proud off winning a watered-down competition that is a sad commentary on how far ambitions have really fallen since 2004.

As for being able to spend more there is no doubt we could spend more if the wage structure did not impede us doing so, and maybe that is exactly what the re-designed wage strcuture of the past few years was specifically designed to do - allow the Club to falsely claim it was ready to spend more more money without having to prove it by actually spending it?

After all, having that cash banked away decreases our net debt which increses interest in the Club by outside investment which increases our share value - but allows the Club to insist the money is available to spend the whole time, even if they would rather stick their fingers in electrical outlets than actually spend it.

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
Padre Pio (IP Logged)
24/08/2011 15:36
Yes what you say in principle and theory is correct Rodeo, but it hasnt happened has it?

Why?
because Wenger spent the money on wage rises for players like eboue and denilson.

Plus a club will always have large liquid assets after season ticket sales etc, they cant blow all that on transfers.

Wenger can justify that he has reinvested all money from player sales by including pay rises for youngsters we have never heard of. It all counts



Arsenal is a top 16 European club that will remain a top 16 European club and the Emirates is tape-loop that will win trophy after trophy

Nothing will change to stop Arsenal's domination except the ticket prices which must go up so that Wenger can make even more marquee signings.

Kroenke, Gazidis & Wenger are made for each other a glorious triumvirate heading for immortality.

Arsenal’s not a football club it is the one true religion Milton Palmer

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
RadioFreeArsenal (IP Logged)
24/08/2011 15:54
Actually Padre all of these raises you rightly refer to came while Ivan Gazidis was at the table negotiating, and of his specific accomplishments as MLS Deputy Commissioner(and an employees of MLS Club Owners, including Stanley Kroenke)was the development and implemantation of the League-Wide Salary Cap and Wage Structure, and he will be at the table negotiating a new deal for Armond Traore any day now and Johna Djourou next month.

His position on wages so far is to call for a Premier League Salary Cap. That's all it is so far really.

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
Thetruthisback (IP Logged)
24/08/2011 16:43
Quote:
RadioFreeArsenal
And that is how we should want to win the Champions league - when the best teams are banned from it? How gallant and sporting is that? It's one thing to beat a lesser light in the final because the better teams were knockjed out earlier but if that is something to be proud off winning a watered-down competition that is a sad commentary on how far ambitions have really fallen since 2004.
As for being able to spend more there is no doubt we could spend more if the wage structure did not impede us doing so, and maybe that is exactly what the re-designed wage strcuture of the past few years was specifically designed to do - allow the Club to falsely claim it was ready to spend more more money without having to prove it by actually spending it?

After all, having that cash banked away decreases our net debt which increses interest in the Club by outside investment which increases our share value - but allows the Club to insist the money is available to spend the whole time, even if they would rather stick their fingers in electrical outlets than actually spend it.

Its hardly the champions league though, is it mate? 3 non-title winning teams from each big super league get to compete each year (bar the fourth placed team has to do one QL - but it is rigged in their favour so that team is a cert anyway).

Should it not be the team that won their domestic league that are the only one's allowed to compete in this crooked cometition? (The way it used to be).

I hate the CL nowadays - its a money spinning joke.

If there was fairness as you mention, then should Shamrock Rovers from my native country or Copenhagen from Denmark etc not have automatically qualified for the competition group stages and not have to do play offs that they have no hope of winning as soon as they meet the 4th placed team from a large league. Where is the fairness in that? How invaluble would that qualifying money be to the smaller countries teams who are CHAMPIONS outright. Why should Man City or Inter or real be given automatic starting berths when they are not champions of their own leagues.

The whole proposed UEFA Fair Play Rules are a joke - there is no such thing as fair play in this competition. I've lost my passion for the game in the last few years due to FIFA and UEFA corruption. Their cancer has spread like wildfire into the game. Our beautiful game is being taken from us one greedy piece after another.



A man does what he must - in spite of personal consequences, in spite of obstacles and dangers and pressures - and that is the basis of all human morality.
Winston Churchill

http://www.gifsoup.com/imager.php?id=400019&t=o GIFSoup Jose The King.

http://bestsmileys.com/mooners/3.gif

Jose champion, king, legend.

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
RadioFreeArsenal (IP Logged)
24/08/2011 17:21
Quote:
Thetruthis
Its hardly the champions league though, is it mate? 3 non-title winning teams from each big super league get to compete each year (bar the fourth placed team has to do one QL - but it is rigged in their favour so that team is a cert anyway).
Should it not be the team that won their domestic league that are the only one's allowed to compete in this crooked cometition? (The way it used to be).

I hate the CL nowadays - its a money spinning joke.

If there was fairness as you mention, then should Shamrock Rovers from my native country or Copenhagen from Denmark etc not have automatically qualified for the competition group stages and not have to do play offs that they have no hope of winning as soon as they meet the 4th placed team from a large league. Where is the fairness in that? How invaluble would that qualifying money be to the smaller countries teams who are CHAMPIONS outright. Why should Man City or Inter or real be given automatic starting berths when they are not champions of their own leagues.

The whole proposed UEFA Fair Play Rules are a joke - there is no such thing as fair play in this competition. I've lost my passion for the game in the last few years due to FIFA and UEFA corruption. Their cancer has spread like wildfire into the game. Our beautiful game is being taken from us one greedy piece after another.

Talking far too-big picture for little ol'me today[:wor kid:]

But actually agree pretty fully with you here especially about the "Champions" League...I just get no rise about only winning it when the rules keep bigger and better clubs out. Like to have a bit more ambition that that lol

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
Thetruthisback (IP Logged)
24/08/2011 17:37
Quote:
RadioFreeArsenal
Quote:
Thetruthis
Its hardly the champions league though, is it mate? 3 non-title winning teams from each big super league get to compete each year (bar the fourth placed team has to do one QL - but it is rigged in their favour so that team is a cert anyway).
Should it not be the team that won their domestic league that are the only one's allowed to compete in this crooked cometition? (The way it used to be).

I hate the CL nowadays - its a money spinning joke.

If there was fairness as you mention, then should Shamrock Rovers from my native country or Copenhagen from Denmark etc not have automatically qualified for the competition group stages and not have to do play offs that they have no hope of winning as soon as they meet the 4th placed team from a large league. Where is the fairness in that? How invaluble would that qualifying money be to the smaller countries teams who are CHAMPIONS outright. Why should Man City or Inter or real be given automatic starting berths when they are not champions of their own leagues.

The whole proposed UEFA Fair Play Rules are a joke - there is no such thing as fair play in this competition. I've lost my passion for the game in the last few years due to FIFA and UEFA corruption. Their cancer has spread like wildfire into the game. Our beautiful game is being taken from us one greedy piece after another.

Talking far too-big picture for little ol'me today[:wor kid:]

But actually agree pretty fully with you here especially about the "Champions" League...I just get no rise about only winning it when the rules keep bigger and better clubs out. Like to have a bit more ambition that that lol

Cool handle, by the way. I'd love to rip up the EPL, pay cap, only a certain ammount of foriegn players per team, boot out the money men (Feckin Premier league my @#$%&) and get back to the good old days of league 1,2,3,4. I know it'll never happen, but that is my dream.

I have some great memories as a kid when things were fair and square. The European cup that Liverpool were so amazing in. I remeber a game I was listening to on the radio on the year dot, we had an Irish team, can't remember which one - anyway got crushed 8 - 0 at home - I think Pool took mercy in the second leg; but it was fun having a small team from one's own country play Dalglish and co. What a team they were!

And we the Arsenal had Terry Neil (Sm22). He's still knocking around. He was on an RTE sport radio programme a few months back.



A man does what he must - in spite of personal consequences, in spite of obstacles and dangers and pressures - and that is the basis of all human morality.
Winston Churchill

http://www.gifsoup.com/imager.php?id=400019&t=o GIFSoup Jose The King.

http://bestsmileys.com/mooners/3.gif

Jose champion, king, legend.

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
Simon68 (IP Logged)
24/08/2011 19:00
TTI.

When the CL was The European Cup and all the teams in it each season were all champions of their respective leagues, to be quite honest it was a pretty p*ss poor competition. Only about 4 teams were realistic contenders each year. The UEFA Cup had far more depth of quality.

The CL may be a money spinning bonanza (not least for UEFA), but the standard of football is the best in the world and that includes international football and the World Cup. And the number of clubs that have a good chance to win it is about 8 each season.

Rodeo

The wage bill has been reduced considerably by the sale of Cesc, Nasri, Eboue and Clichy and the loan of Denilson, probably to the tune of nearly £20m pa.

And yes, you're quite correct about the ring fencing of money purely for spending on the playing side, but as I said in an earlier post, it's about what AW thinks is value for money and he won't spend it where he thinks he won't get value. It may be stubborn and p*ss people off, but it does make sound business sense. It may also be Stan's view that he doesn't want to spend money increasing the length and value of squad players contracts.

No doubt some of our 'super quality' targets agents are asking for silly money which is maybe why we aren't seeing them arriving.

Chelsea pay their players stupid money (apparently Terry and Lampard are on parity contracts) and lose shedloads of money each year.

We can't afford to do that.

The chances of Arsenal winning the CL due to other clubs being excluded because of FFP is about the same as me having a 2's up with the Middleton sisters. UEFA won't sanction it for fear of a breakaway European League being formed (and Arsenal wouldn't miss out on that either).

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
eduardo (IP Logged)
24/08/2011 19:20
simon can I suggest you put your long post in for a lead article, maybe add or refine it, as its a great piece



*Signing Ozil is a signing Bergkamp type moment for Arsenal. It changes things utterly.*

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
rodeo (IP Logged)
24/08/2011 19:48
I'm very much with you simon68 you make some good points and earlier also I was going to say the same but couldnt remember your handle.

I don't think people quite "get" that in football finance / clout terms we really are absolute minnows.

Deloitte publish a very good list of football finance by club turnover but this is DIRECTLY AVAILABLE money - where we do compete. But winning trophies is a fight and when its "about to kick off I look not only at the adversary, but the people standing behind my adversary and indeed the people behind them. There is another way of looking at football club finances and that is to look not only at the club turnover but the backers nett worth and the backers backers nett worth.

When you do that here's the table.

Club T/O Backer/Nett Worth Backup Team/Nett Worth

Arsenal $0.3bn Kronke $2bn His Wife $3bn
Juventus $0.3bn Fiat $85bn None
Barcelona$0.5bn State of Catalonia $314bn None
Paris SG $0.1bn QatarInvAuth $60bnQatar $900bn
Chelsea $0.3bn Abramovich $7bn Siberia/Russia $1894bn
Anzhi M $0.1bn Kerimov $7.8bn Dagestan/Russia $1894bn
Real Mad $0.6bn City of Madrid $500bn? GovSpain $1409bn
Man City $0.2bn Sheikh Mansour $1000bn AbuDhabiIA $1000bn
AC Milan $0.3bn Burlusconi $8bn Italy $2055bn

Now of course I am not saying that the state of Italy runs AC Milan and I am not saying that AC Milan is worth $2063.3bn, but what I am saying is that these clubs have access to implied and very substantial muscle (including financial) that we simply do not have. So for example when the chips are down and you are $500m in debt, its pretty handy when the City Council can "rezone" your training ground so that it is much more valuable to developers and you can therefore wipe out the debt as Madrid City Council did (not state aid though according to the EU investigation), or for example when you are $1000m in the red, a state run airline, coincidentally controlled by the same people as your club can rock on down with a cheque for $600m for a "sponsorship agreement" paid upfront.

The fact is that Arsenal have for years (thanks to both the board and AW) punched well above their weight and will continue to do so when you reference the above table.

But the takeaway point is that to get involved in some kind of financial Mexican standoff with some of these clubs is just pure madness and we should on no account do it.

One final point I will mention because I forgot to say it earlier, we all know the old football adage I am sure, but it is as true of the Club as it is the players it is generally uttered about.

Form is temporary.....

Rodeo

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
RadioFreeArsenal (IP Logged)
24/08/2011 20:46
No one is saying we should but we do have more resources and ought to use them just as we did the same from 1998-2005 when we were outspent by most clubs but still were willing to spend more (relatively speaking) and more ambitiously and be more competitive.

The Board misled us and let us down really for the past several years and if anyhting is continuing to do so I fear. No we didn't have to spend like Chelsea or now Man City. We just had to spend more like Arsenal used to and clearly there was nodesire on our Club's opart to do that much even, and clearly given the lack of question or complaint or even action certainly our Board felt no desire to see us to do so.

If you increase our wage strcuture out to 150-170K a week you can sign that many more players like we used to sign from 1998-2005 and equally importantly you can keep your better players until the team does finally compete for and win trophies. Right now we offer neither good wages or good prospects of winning trophies you cannot blame top players for going to City ahead of Arsenal, period. They will make more money and have better prospects to win silverware too. I mean sickening as it is to say there are 4-5 clubs in England right now that if I were a genuinely ambitious player I would look to before Arsenal, because I will either get more money and more trophies or maybe both.

I don't see us changing the trophies thing with the players we now have so we have to change the wage structure get some of these players to sign with us for the wages and then when we win a trophy or two we'll be set as players will come to Arsenal for less because they have more chances to win trophies.

If we don't change the wage structure now who knows how long it'll be before we are ready to attract players with success on the pitch again?

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
Thetruthisback (IP Logged)
24/08/2011 22:40
[quote Simon68]TTI.

When the CL was The European Cup and all the teams in it each season were all champions of their respective leagues, to be quite honest it was a pretty p*ss poor competition. Only about 4 teams were realistic contenders each year. The UEFA Cup had far more depth of quality.

The CL may be a money spinning bonanza (not least for UEFA), but the standard of football is the best in the world and that includes international football and the World Cup. And the number of clubs that have a good chance to win it is about 8 each season.

Rodeo

The wage bill has been reduced considerably by the sale of Cesc, Nasri, Eboue and Clichy and the loan of Denilson, probably to the tune of nearly £20m pa.

And yes, you're quite correct about the ring fencing of money purely for spending on the playing side, but as I said in an earlier post, it's about what AW thinks is value for money and he won't spend it where he thinks he won't get value. It may be stubborn and p*ss people off, but it does make sound business sense. It may also be Stan's view that he doesn't want to spend money increasing the length and value of squad players contracts.

No doubt some of our 'super quality' targets agents are asking for silly money which is maybe why we aren't seeing them arriving.

Chelsea pay their players stupid money (apparently Terry and Lampard are on parity contracts) and lose shedloads of money each year.

I prefered the old system. The Uefa cup was great, and the cup winners fired up some great teams.
you really should be a thread starter as you are very well informed and write brilliantly. Just saying.



A man does what he must - in spite of personal consequences, in spite of obstacles and dangers and pressures - and that is the basis of all human morality.
Winston Churchill

http://www.gifsoup.com/imager.php?id=400019&t=o GIFSoup Jose The King.

http://bestsmileys.com/mooners/3.gif

Jose champion, king, legend.

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
Padre Pio (IP Logged)
24/08/2011 23:03
Good points rodeo, but dont forget Usamanov Worlds 2 nd richest man



Arsenal is a top 16 European club that will remain a top 16 European club and the Emirates is tape-loop that will win trophy after trophy

Nothing will change to stop Arsenal's domination except the ticket prices which must go up so that Wenger can make even more marquee signings.

Kroenke, Gazidis & Wenger are made for each other a glorious triumvirate heading for immortality.

Arsenal’s not a football club it is the one true religion Milton Palmer

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
Thetruthisback (IP Logged)
27/08/2011 01:04
Quote:
Padre Pio
Good points rodeo, but dont forget Usamanov Worlds 2 nd richest man
I never knew that.
http://www.freesmileys.org/custom/image/red%5E_%5Earial%5E_%5E0%5E_%5E0%5E_%5EGet Usmanov on board now!%5E_%5E.gif



A man does what he must - in spite of personal consequences, in spite of obstacles and dangers and pressures - and that is the basis of all human morality.
Winston Churchill

http://www.gifsoup.com/imager.php?id=400019&t=o GIFSoup Jose The King.

http://bestsmileys.com/mooners/3.gif

Jose champion, king, legend.

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
Padre Pio (IP Logged)
27/08/2011 01:06
his personal wealth is supposed to be $40 billion



Arsenal is a top 16 European club that will remain a top 16 European club and the Emirates is tape-loop that will win trophy after trophy

Nothing will change to stop Arsenal's domination except the ticket prices which must go up so that Wenger can make even more marquee signings.

Kroenke, Gazidis & Wenger are made for each other a glorious triumvirate heading for immortality.

Arsenal’s not a football club it is the one true religion Milton Palmer

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
RadioFreeArsenal (IP Logged)
27/08/2011 19:30
But's let put ego on top of greed ahead of Arsenal. And some still defend this Board. They sold Arsenal out - period. They are unfit to be remembererd as Arsenal Men and Women.

I cannot believe what they have done to Arsenal without a hint of shame or conscience from any of them.

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
RadioFreeArsenal (IP Logged)
28/08/2011 18:02
How's that wage structure looking now then?

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
Dan_gooner77 (IP Logged)
29/08/2011 04:29
SPOT ON!!

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
2bsure2bsure (IP Logged)
31/08/2011 10:35
This is not the first time I've heard this and I believe it has been going on for years. If you look at the Ashley Cole situation, he was a gunner through and through but when the board went back on their word and refused to pay him the agreed extra £5,000 per week he took Chelsea up on their offer. I believe that if he had gotten the agreed figure he would never have gone to Chelsea. And please don't tell me that Clichy is/was a better player !!

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
Philly the kid (IP Logged)
02/09/2011 20:44
I've cussed Ashley as much as anyone.
Thinking about it. I wish we'd just paid the extra £5 grand too.
Our board is/was/always will be the problem.

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
Simon68 (IP Logged)
04/09/2011 11:36
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
Posted by: 2bsure2bsure (IP Logged)
Date: 31 August, 2011 10:35

but when the board went back on their word


What word was that then?

It was Dein's not the Board.

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
Simon68 (IP Logged)
04/09/2011 11:45
And besides, I heard it wasn't just about the extra £5k pw, it was also about Cole's agent wanting Arsenal to pay him £750k for negotiating the new contract and Arsenal telling him to get it off his client if he wanted it as it was nothing to do with them.

Quite right too and good riddance to Cole and his agent.

It's p*ssing me off that some people are forgetting what a little toe rag Cole is and the damage Dein has done to us.

Next thing people will start saying Josef Fritzl was a good family man.

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
Padre Pio (IP Logged)
04/09/2011 13:21
What the Cole Dein episode demonstrates that there was already a split between Dein and them.
As Wenger worked closely with Dein it does raise the issue whether all was well between Wenger and board.
Doesnt matter what you think of Cole, and I dont think that much of him,there is no doubt it left Wenger with problems in his relationship with board.



Arsenal is a top 16 European club that will remain a top 16 European club and the Emirates is tape-loop that will win trophy after trophy

Nothing will change to stop Arsenal's domination except the ticket prices which must go up so that Wenger can make even more marquee signings.

Kroenke, Gazidis & Wenger are made for each other a glorious triumvirate heading for immortality.

Arsenal’s not a football club it is the one true religion Milton Palmer

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
Merlion96 (IP Logged)
04/09/2011 17:12
Quote:
Simon68
And besides, I heard it wasn't just about the extra £5k pw, it was also about Cole's agent wanting Arsenal to pay him £750k for negotiating the new contract and Arsenal telling him to get it off his client if he wanted it as it was nothing to do with them.
Quite right too and good riddance to Cole and his agent.

It's p*ssing me off that some people are forgetting what a little toe rag Cole is and the damage Dein has done to us.

Next thing people will start saying Josef Fritzl was a good family man.

Simon, during that period, it was also reported that a raging Wenger went tot eh Baord and told them to pay Cole what was agreed with Dein and him..just paid that 55,000pw.

And it all ended up with COle's agent getting what they wanted - bump his salary to 70,00pw (the salary offered by Chelski) to sign a 1-year contract extension or else he walked away on a Bosman.

Again, what sort of nonsense that PHW and Fizman had beign syaing all along that the Baord "will not refuse funds for Arsene Wenegr to sign any players he wanted".

DO you knwo that Arsene Wenegr let slipped that he wanted to re-sign Anelka, but again the Board refused to have any delaing with his brother who is his agent?

Guess we all have to wiat for Wenger to retire to write his memiors then to know or to have an inkling of the true stories.

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
eduardo (IP Logged)
04/09/2011 22:41
merl it was dein who refused to allow wenger to sign anelka, DD has admitted that publically, he said he would not deal with Anelka's brothers again after the trouble they caused him in the sale of anelka



*Signing Ozil is a signing Bergkamp type moment for Arsenal. It changes things utterly.*

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
Merlion96 (IP Logged)
05/09/2011 04:36
Ta.

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
Simon68 (IP Logged)
05/09/2011 13:13
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive new
Posted by: eduardo (IP Logged)
Date: 04 September, 2011 22:41

merl it was dein who refused to allow wenger to sign anelka, DD has admitted that publically, he said he would not deal with Anelka's brothers again after the trouble they caused him in the sale of anelka


I had forgotten that Ed. How could I have? It was the closest I'd seen Dein to losing his cool.

Do we attract more of these players than others?

Anelka, Adebayor, Cole, Nasri, Bentley, Bendtner (to a degree).

But then you have to look at the loyalty of others like DB10, TH14, PV4, RP7, Freddie, Lauren and others.

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
eduardo (IP Logged)
11/09/2011 22:06
160K views, fecking hell



*Signing Ozil is a signing Bergkamp type moment for Arsenal. It changes things utterly.*

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
RadioFreeArsenal (IP Logged)
12/09/2011 05:42
Simon that account just makes no sense - first off most people say the 5000 a week was the money Barnett wanted, even David Dein reportedly suggested as much although the Premier LLeague investigation did not give any credence to that claim as that still wouldn't explain why the Board would offer 5000 less a week . If that were true it would eexplain why they would not offer 5000 more a week which was never the issue.

Either Barnett wanted 60 K a week for Cole plus 5k for himself which would mean there was a dispute over 10 K which no one has said, or that they offered Ashley Cole what he was actually asking for the simple truth is as the Premier league investigation revealed the price was always 60 K a week for Cole, and that was that.

Actually in fact if you break down 750K over three years it comes out to about 5K a week, but again if the 5K a week were the issue then why didn't we just agree to pay the 60K but not to the pay the other 5K and let them decide how to proceed? Then that claim about the extra 5K might make. As it stand it simply doesn't stand up to simple math and logic. If the problem was a payment to Barnett and just said no to other 5K. we would have offered Cole the 60K. And the only other way that might be possible is if they had only asked for 55K aweek as the Board offered plus the agent's fees.. And the Premier League Report shows neither was the case.

And btw, we actually pay more in agent's fess than Man United according to the Premier League from twp years ago, so there is that as well to consider.

I think the4 Club has said nothing because it is happy to let people believe this myth about this incident. because that saveds them having to answer some rather embarassing questions when they really didn't want and couldn't afford to answer.

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
Padre Pio (IP Logged)
12/09/2011 08:43
Interesting that Wenger described the summer has worse than hell and intimated there had been all kinds of problems he could not talk about. He also said it was not just him involved in transfers that there were 20 other people, that implied the blame should be shared.

True or not just about every source believes that there was a dispute between Wenger and Board. Its not what people say its what you can see with your own eyes that counts



Arsenal is a top 16 European club that will remain a top 16 European club and the Emirates is tape-loop that will win trophy after trophy

Nothing will change to stop Arsenal's domination except the ticket prices which must go up so that Wenger can make even more marquee signings.

Kroenke, Gazidis & Wenger are made for each other a glorious triumvirate heading for immortality.

Arsenal’s not a football club it is the one true religion Milton Palmer

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
RadioFreeArsenal (IP Logged)
12/09/2011 09:05
I agree Padre, the thing is if as some insist Mr. Wenger is the one who refuses to copperate why not just sack him and install an ambitious new guy who will do what the Board wants? I think thew question already answers itself really...

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
Simon68 (IP Logged)
12/09/2011 11:00
Because the Board realise that Wenger is the best man to make the most of what we have and what money is made available to him. After all, he has been doing it for the last 16 years.

Who else could do it? Arsenal is one of the top football managing jobs in the world and as such needs a top manager. Perhaps the only 2 men who could take it on are Guardiola and Hiddink. The other top managers would require shedloads of money which we don't have.

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
De Times (IP Logged)
12/09/2011 11:56
Quote:
Simon68
TTI.
When the CL was The European Cup and all the teams in it each season were all champions of their respective leagues, to be quite honest it was a pretty p*ss poor competition. Only about 4 teams were realistic contenders each year. The UEFA Cup had far more depth of quality.

The CL may be a money spinning bonanza (not least for UEFA), but the standard of football is the best in the world and that includes international football and the World Cup. And the number of clubs that have a good chance to win it is about 8 each season.

You actually took the pains to explain this Simon. I stopped teaching babies long ago because they infuriate me alot when they wouldnt understand common sense, i'm very impatient with them.

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
De Times (IP Logged)
12/09/2011 12:20
But Simon, Pep hasn't proven he could manage on a low budget, and he's pretty bad at transfers.

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
De Times (IP Logged)
12/09/2011 12:23
But Simon, Pep hasn't proven he could manage on a low budget, and he's pretty bad at transfers.

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
karsene16 (IP Logged)
12/09/2011 12:41
Manager's are judged on how well they can assemble a team and the direction they're taking them, not the budget they spend.

If a manager spends 1 million and the team is a position lower in the league, they're seen to be crap, if a manager spend 15mil and gets the team 2 positions higher is seen as good.

Transfers in football are in a market which means sometimes you can be conned. Like what we did to Zenit and Barca did to us.

Wenger has a brilliant history of not being conned.

Pep will be seen as good until Barcelona flop.



http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e232/karsene/wilshere.jpg?t=1376646952

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
Simon68 (IP Logged)
12/09/2011 13:14
I trust Guardiola's ability to get the team playing the right way as long as he has talent at his disposal, the same as I do Hiddink. Despite what people are saying about us having lost our best players (only Cesc comes into that category as far as I'm concerned), we have some outstanding players at our Club and I don't think these two need to spend the amount that a Mourinho would want to in order to create a successful team.

The players I regard as outstanding are Chez, TV5, Sagna, Jack and RvP. The very good are Song, Kos, Arteta. Possibly Gervinho but it is too early to tell, ditto Mertesacker and Benyoun. The potentially outstanding or very good are Ramsey, Myaichi, Walcott, AOC, Gibbs, Frimpong, Campbell. Others are either not good enough or it is too early to tell.

What we lack is a Messi and now Cesc.

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
eduardo (IP Logged)
25/09/2011 00:32
Wenger's comments on friday that arsenal's best contract offer will not mean its enough to get the players(RVP, AA, TV5, Theo and Song) to sign new deals within the next year, for me is a statement aimed once again at Kroenke and the Board, that Arsenal must up its max wage or we will lose most if not all these players next summer,

I think it also backs the info I reported in this thread. Money for transfer bids is there, but our wage structure(max Wage) is out of line with the big spenders and so we are hamstrung by this no matter what transfer funds we have.


For those that missed Wenger's comments on renewing contracts

Wenger - We're ready to discuss new deals
by Richard Clarke

Arsène Wenger has started the process of securing some of his star players on new contracts.

In the summer, Samir Nasri was allowed to leave for Manchester City because, according to the manager, Arsenal received a "reasonable price" for a player with one-year left in his contract. FIFA rules would have allowed the midfielder to sign a pre-contract with a new team in January and walk out for free at the end of the season.

The likes of Theo Walcott, Robin van Persie and Alex Song are in the same situation next summer. Wenger admits the negotiating process is always tricky so he is not wasting any time.

"Yes, this starts now," said Wenger. "We will try to convince them. Our desire is there to do it and we are ready to sit down with them.

"After that we see where we go but the gap on that front has become bigger for us so, today, I cannot say that if we go to the maximum [deal] we are sure to sign a player - even if we do that we are not sure."

However, Wenger is not expecting a repeat of this summer when Nasri and Cesc Fabregas both departed. He believes the former was good business and the latter a specific case.

"I always said that Cesc was a bargain," said Wenger. "We were forced into a situation because for me he is one of the best midfielders in the world and we knew that we would sell him under what he's worth.

"With Nasri at least we got a reasonable price for a player with one year to go."



*Signing Ozil is a signing Bergkamp type moment for Arsenal. It changes things utterly.*

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
Padre Pio (IP Logged)
25/09/2011 01:41
Shouldnt have wasted so much money on the Denilsons and diabys then



Arsenal is a top 16 European club that will remain a top 16 European club and the Emirates is tape-loop that will win trophy after trophy

Nothing will change to stop Arsenal's domination except the ticket prices which must go up so that Wenger can make even more marquee signings.

Kroenke, Gazidis & Wenger are made for each other a glorious triumvirate heading for immortality.

Arsenal’s not a football club it is the one true religion Milton Palmer

 
Re: Wenger and the Board at Loggerheads Exclusive
Merlion96 (IP Logged)
25/09/2011 02:52
And I will produce the "smoking gun" on why they can't break the salary scale..grinning smiley

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