Arsenal
Wenger Protest, Cesc and the Real World Part 2
Not again
By Eduardo
May 16 2010
What Wenger means by the team has improved and getting 3rd is like winning a trophy. Ask any player what club competition he wants to play in and the answer is almost certainly the Champions League, players threaten to leave clubs if they do not make it to the CL.
Club managers talk about being able to attract a higher calibre of player if in the CL, the TV exposure also means extra sponsorship revenue, a bigger fan base, more prestige.
Winning the FAC and League Cup has done little for Portsmouth or the tiny totts, ask any manager would they swap 3rd or even 4th for winning the FAC or League Cup and you will find they will take the high league finish, we the fans might crave the cups but the sponsors would rather be paying to a Champions league team than an FAC winning team, its just the order of things now.
Now as for the improvement, Wenger clarified some of what he was meaning, some players have improved, even if only slightly, the team spirit improved (it was only in final few weeks that it dropped badly), Song improved greatly, RVP before his injury had improved, Diaby did improve, it was only final few weeks he dropped; many others like Nasri, when at their best were improved, Ramsey improved, and for me Walcott has improved.
Vermaelen was an improvement on Toure, but I also think that Wenger was talking about the togetherness of the team, the fighting spirit (yes, yes, up till last few weeks), and the ability to stand up and fight the non football sides, improvement for a manager and coach can be gauged in more ways than just results. Where some players improved other went backwards, mainly due to injury, Denilson and Clichy both with broken backs went well back at times, our goalies also made more cock ups than last year, our injuries also increased, and this had a massive effect on our form and final run in results.
Finances and Project Youth
I have heard the moaners and groaners claim many times Wenger has lied to them, the board has lied to them, that Wenger has chosen to go with youth, and that it is his decision not to spend money. They are of course right in a way, but only partly; only ever so slightly, Wenger never decided not to spend, he decided not to spend money he does not have.
If people would care to actually look up in full the comments from Fiszman and Hill-Wood, where they talk about the club's ability to buy a £30M player, they do not say we have that money available, they say we can get that sort of money, there is a loan agreement in place with the banks, it was part of the initial loans for the Emirates, where if you like, Arsenal, could get a top up loan to buy players. It is why they board never said we could buy two £30M players, or we could even buy one each year, because we could not, Wenger knew the board only wanted to go that route as a last resort, and so he never demanded they take out the loan.
So Wenger went with cheaper buys, who would have sell on value if we decided to sell them at a later date, players who could improve, this so happened to mean younger players, but it is not PROJECT YOUTH, in fact project youth was the setting up of the Hale End Academy a decade ago, last years double winning youth team are the first group of players to by and large come all he way through that system, this years youth became the first side to retain the Academy league, so project youth is showing great signs that it will bear fruit.
We have started to see the first glimpses of player who might break into the first team, and even more than that, might become real stars, Lansbury, Wilshere and Emmanuel-Thomas, three very gifted players, and other less glamorous guys like Eastmond have earned a call up to the first team. Wenger explained when Hale End was set up that the idea was that in time Arsenal would produce most of its own players, a couple of really special ones, some good ones, some squad fillers. Then he would only need to buy that extra bit of quality when needed, that eventually we would be producing enough good players, that any signings he made would be vital, top quality players.
The problem is many Arsenal fans either did not see or did not understand the whole idea. They also misunderstood the comments about moving to the Emirates to enable us to compete in the transfer market for the best. This was not straight away, it was always when a large portion of the debt was cleared, yes it was meant to have happened by now, but the recession held it back, its my understanding that this summer is the first summer we have a good (well good by our standard) surplus of money to spend on transfers. Now if Wenger does not spend this summer then something is wrong in the state of Denmark.
Of course I can blame Cesc if he demands a move this summer
Or any time, while he is under contract, I'm fed up to the back teeth of all this bull that a player is within his rights to move if his club is not winning trophies, I'm fairly sure when a player signs a contract it only promises him x amount of wages(and x is now a massive amount, in Cesc's case probably £5M a year), in return for him staying and working for the club till the end of the duration of the said contract. No one puts a gun to their head to make them sign, everyone one of them knows that if they do have success (personal or team) they will almost certainly get a new and improved contract. But hey it's another good sound bite from the moaners to use to have a go at Wenger and the board.
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Discussion started by Arsenal Times , 16/05/2010 17:44
Arsenal Times
16/05/2010 17:44
16/05/2010 17:44
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010:05:19:07:46:37 by Padre Pio.
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010:05:19:07:46:37 by Padre Pio.
Great read Ed, it`s quite simple really. Didn`t think your comment on Buffon/Almunia had anything to do with anything, but in general, it`s the way I see it.
Since the end of WW1, 1919, when the FA restarted its 4 tier football league, with Arsenal fc in the 1st div, there’s only ever been one club to have never been relegated from Div 1/ EPL.
Arsenal fc
Let’s keep making history
Since the end of WW1, 1919, when the FA restarted its 4 tier football league, with Arsenal fc in the 1st div, there’s only ever been one club to have never been relegated from Div 1/ EPL.
Arsenal fc
Let’s keep making history
Weedz the almunia buffon line is just showing that as big a name as Buffon is and as great a goalie he has been he may at this time be in no better form than Almunia, in no way am I saying Almunia is a top top goalie, also these morons who intend to protest would wet themselves if we sign Buffon, but they have no idea how he has played this season
Most people pretend they watch a lot of football.
Official 1000th poster in the classic transfer rumors thread of 2014.
Well I do neither guys. I watch two games a week live, (my 19yr old daughter plays womans prem footy locally) and about 5 or 6 games on TV. So not a huge amount.
Getting back to the keeper question, Ed, I was chatting to an Italian lady friend recently, she hails from Turin and she considered Buffons mind and heart had not been with the `old lady` this season. She also questioned Wengers football ability for being interested in Melo, and thought the whole of the Juve MF not up to SeriA standard. She agreed with me when I said I thought that Buffon is still a WC keeper and that his class will rise again. This happened about 2mths ago,long before the `Buffon to AFC` report came out.
Honestly, who would you rather have between the posts for AFC?
Since the end of WW1, 1919, when the FA restarted its 4 tier football league, with Arsenal fc in the 1st div, there’s only ever been one club to have never been relegated from Div 1/ EPL.
Arsenal fc
Let’s keep making history
Getting back to the keeper question, Ed, I was chatting to an Italian lady friend recently, she hails from Turin and she considered Buffons mind and heart had not been with the `old lady` this season. She also questioned Wengers football ability for being interested in Melo, and thought the whole of the Juve MF not up to SeriA standard. She agreed with me when I said I thought that Buffon is still a WC keeper and that his class will rise again. This happened about 2mths ago,long before the `Buffon to AFC` report came out.
Honestly, who would you rather have between the posts for AFC?
Since the end of WW1, 1919, when the FA restarted its 4 tier football league, with Arsenal fc in the 1st div, there’s only ever been one club to have never been relegated from Div 1/ EPL.
Arsenal fc
Let’s keep making history
Can't argue with that first paragraph.
My view of the CL is that it is a load of old bilge, incorrectly named, something to keep the big greedy clubs
of Europe happy. But I understand that for players winning
it is like having an eternal blow job.
I'd rather have won the FA Cup than finished in the top
4 but that's just archaic old me, out of step with
modern times. I'd rather have a trophy than qualify for
one we can't win. Yes I know we'd lose our three great
players if we didn't finish third or fourth every
season.
As I said on another post, some people think Wenger is no
tactical genius and doesn't know how to motivate players.
If that is true then imagine what we might have done this season if we had a manger who could do both.
My view of the CL is that it is a load of old bilge, incorrectly named, something to keep the big greedy clubs
of Europe happy. But I understand that for players winning
it is like having an eternal blow job.
I'd rather have won the FA Cup than finished in the top
4 but that's just archaic old me, out of step with
modern times. I'd rather have a trophy than qualify for
one we can't win. Yes I know we'd lose our three great
players if we didn't finish third or fourth every
season.
As I said on another post, some people think Wenger is no
tactical genius and doesn't know how to motivate players.
If that is true then imagine what we might have done this season if we had a manger who could do both.
Its not often a team who doesn't make it into the Champions League ends up winning the FA Cup, so it makes sense to stay in the top four to give you a chance of winning the FA CUp in the first place.
Official 1000th poster in the classic transfer rumors thread of 2014.
This is true. Shame we can't do both lately.
Having been to Wembley yesterday to support my girlfriend's
team I kept imagining Arsenal playing there.
This yearning was slightly mitigated by Oxford winning.
The yellows had the whole of one end, about 30,000
supporters. York had about a third of the other end.
Having been to Wembley yesterday to support my girlfriend's
team I kept imagining Arsenal playing there.
This yearning was slightly mitigated by Oxford winning.
The yellows had the whole of one end, about 30,000
supporters. York had about a third of the other end.
this summer really has got to be aw's last throw of the dice he has to buy the 2 or 3 players we need.as for the protest im sorry but if a protest is what it takes sor aw to wake up to the fact that not everybody is as content with things as he is then so be it
Even if he does buy the players we could still not win anything, what happens then?
Official 1000th poster in the classic transfer rumors thread of 2014.
Two fantastic reads Eduardo,cant say I agree with all ytou say but I know its from the heart and honest,well done mate.
I respect what you are saying eduardo but this is a classic WKB article in my opinion. The fact is, since about 5 years ago, we have been consistently selling our best players, and replacing them with potential, potential that isnt materialising. 5 years ago we needed one or two quality signings to compete, a couple of years ago it was 2 or 3, now its more like 4 or 5. So Wenger is making harder on himself year on year by selling our best players then REWARDING the shite we have left with massive new contracts. We have a wage bill over £100 million a year how can that be justified when you look at the squad? We are backed up by results on the pitch, no trophies, poor player attitude, poor defensive displays year on year, poor goalkeeping, passing monotomously over and over until everyone is asleep, its all basic stuff we can see on the pitch that needs change and Wenger refuses to provide.
Because the likes of Diaby and Denilson are getting these bumper new contracts by achieving nothing, Wenger has an affinity with these players, he no longer uses his common sense. Wenger used to be ruthless, look at Wright, Jeffers, Bentley, Pennant, and so on, if players werent good enough, or inconsistent, they were gone. If they showed any bad behaviour they were gone. It would be a national crime if, by next august, Almunia and Fabianski where both still at the club, it would be an insult to the supporters intelligence that having 2 of the worst keepers in Arsenal history start next season can win us anything.
So who is deserving of a new and improved contract? who has shown success on a personal level or with the team? none of them, yet wengers love affair with some of them is now the deciding factor, players like silvestre are wengers "french buddy" i honestly cant see any other reason for him being here.
You always take things to the extreme oposite of the spectrum, most of us disgruntled ones, just want some good solid signings when they have been promised. Every year Wenger come's out with lies like "we will sign 3 super quality players" and they never appear. You drone on about no one being available, or being too expensive, well we must be the only club that cant find some decent signings in a whole summer, signings in the 5-15 million bracket, as celine says sell to buy, eduardo and denilson could be sold for a combined fee of around 15 million or more, that could fund one solid player, not two below average ones.
I think its quite @#$%& apparent that we won't be buying Messi anytime soon, we get it, our record signing is 15 million. The fact is we sold two first team players last summer and brought in one, we now have £30 million in excess that should be spent on bolstering the team. Fair enough, get some £5-10 million signings in, I mean Sagna only cost £6 mill, came straight in and did very well, Vermaelen for £10 mill, we can easily afford 3 or 4 quality signings for around £30 mill if you know where to look and you go for them early. We have one of, if not the best scouting system in the world, let them do there job and find some quality.
Thats all on a lower level, if we really want to compete we need some of those signings, mixed with world class talent, some one like Villa, Silva, or Shweinsteiger, should be signed. We missed out on Torres who cost Liverpool £20 million, because we didnt want to pay that much at the time, was that a wise move? How much is Torres worth now?
We need one world class player like the 3 mentioned to show some @#$%& balls in the transfer market, we need to show ambition that some of our players are asking the club for like RVP, and Cesc, they clearly want to play with better players, who are up to the job, if not they will leave, if your fine with that then great, lets sack all the good players, and fill us up with some Silvestres and Denilsons, lets make Fabianski number one and play eboue on the left wing, lets disregard set pieces and the defensive side, and focus on the passing game for the next 5 years, I mean if it looks nice then that is basically a win right? Sure we might get assraped by the likes of City, United and Chelsea, but atleast we can put on a mighty good show at Wigan, oh, woops...
Because the likes of Diaby and Denilson are getting these bumper new contracts by achieving nothing, Wenger has an affinity with these players, he no longer uses his common sense. Wenger used to be ruthless, look at Wright, Jeffers, Bentley, Pennant, and so on, if players werent good enough, or inconsistent, they were gone. If they showed any bad behaviour they were gone. It would be a national crime if, by next august, Almunia and Fabianski where both still at the club, it would be an insult to the supporters intelligence that having 2 of the worst keepers in Arsenal history start next season can win us anything.
Quote:everyone of them knows that if they do have success (personal or team) they will almost certainly get a new and improved contract.
So who is deserving of a new and improved contract? who has shown success on a personal level or with the team? none of them, yet wengers love affair with some of them is now the deciding factor, players like silvestre are wengers "french buddy" i honestly cant see any other reason for him being here.
You always take things to the extreme oposite of the spectrum, most of us disgruntled ones, just want some good solid signings when they have been promised. Every year Wenger come's out with lies like "we will sign 3 super quality players" and they never appear. You drone on about no one being available, or being too expensive, well we must be the only club that cant find some decent signings in a whole summer, signings in the 5-15 million bracket, as celine says sell to buy, eduardo and denilson could be sold for a combined fee of around 15 million or more, that could fund one solid player, not two below average ones.
I think its quite @#$%& apparent that we won't be buying Messi anytime soon, we get it, our record signing is 15 million. The fact is we sold two first team players last summer and brought in one, we now have £30 million in excess that should be spent on bolstering the team. Fair enough, get some £5-10 million signings in, I mean Sagna only cost £6 mill, came straight in and did very well, Vermaelen for £10 mill, we can easily afford 3 or 4 quality signings for around £30 mill if you know where to look and you go for them early. We have one of, if not the best scouting system in the world, let them do there job and find some quality.
Thats all on a lower level, if we really want to compete we need some of those signings, mixed with world class talent, some one like Villa, Silva, or Shweinsteiger, should be signed. We missed out on Torres who cost Liverpool £20 million, because we didnt want to pay that much at the time, was that a wise move? How much is Torres worth now?
We need one world class player like the 3 mentioned to show some @#$%& balls in the transfer market, we need to show ambition that some of our players are asking the club for like RVP, and Cesc, they clearly want to play with better players, who are up to the job, if not they will leave, if your fine with that then great, lets sack all the good players, and fill us up with some Silvestres and Denilsons, lets make Fabianski number one and play eboue on the left wing, lets disregard set pieces and the defensive side, and focus on the passing game for the next 5 years, I mean if it looks nice then that is basically a win right? Sure we might get assraped by the likes of City, United and Chelsea, but atleast we can put on a mighty good show at Wigan, oh, woops...
Mike, have you not considered the possibility that you may be wrong and your opinion comes across very 'knuckle-dragish'?
Official 1000th poster in the classic transfer rumors thread of 2014.
torres cost considerably more than 20 million and has won liverpool nothing
he might make them a profit if they get rid but not nearly as big a profit, percentage wise, as if we decided to sell robin van persie
still as long as you show balls in the transfer market it doesn't matter if you win anything, right?
he might make them a profit if they get rid but not nearly as big a profit, percentage wise, as if we decided to sell robin van persie
still as long as you show balls in the transfer market it doesn't matter if you win anything, right?
Quote:Super Hans
Mike, have you not considered the possibility that you may be wrong and your opinion comes across very 'knuckle-dragish'?
Wrong about what? I have no agenda against Wenger, or any player we have, I simply judge them on the pitch and my feasible conclusion is we deserve better, and CAN afford better, but excuses are always made to the contrary, and the same short comings are apparent each season, for the last 5 seasons.
Quote:your mother
torres cost considerably more than 20 million and has won liverpool nothing
he might make them a profit if they get rid but not nearly as big a profit, percentage wise, as if we decided to sell robin van persie
still as long as you show balls in the transfer market it doesn't matter if you win anything, right?
Apparently the money that was exchanged was £20million. And also the fee is paid over time, not all at once, so over 4 years he could have cost 5/6 million a season.
And the whole point is with a few FEASABLE reinforcements we COULD be winning things. I believe 2 or 3 quality signings could have won us the league this season, United and Chelsea stuttered and it was there for the taking but the squad deficincies were quite apparent when we played United, Chelsea, City, Barca, teams we would be crave to play against 4 or 5 years years ago, but now I think we all know we are nowere near them in terms of quality, yet were still paying similar wages, it doesnt add up.
How do you know we can afford better?
Official 1000th poster in the classic transfer rumors thread of 2014.
Quote:we need to show ambition that some of our players are asking the club for like RVP, and Cesc, they clearly want to play with better players
It's that fact that they could play with better players, as better teams want them.
Theodore roosevelt - In any moment of decision, the best thing you can do is the right thing, the next best thing is the wrong thing, and the worst thing you can do is nothing.
There's nothing wrong with anything mike has stated.
Theodore roosevelt - In any moment of decision, the best thing you can do is the right thing, the next best thing is the wrong thing, and the worst thing you can do is nothing.
Theodore roosevelt - In any moment of decision, the best thing you can do is the right thing, the next best thing is the wrong thing, and the worst thing you can do is nothing.
no body is faulting wenger for going for cheaper players,the issue is selling your top quality and not replacing them...whats the point improving salaries of players who have failed to improve????
Can We Now Trust The Process 🤔🤷🏿♀️ or Should We Still Remain Cautious 🙇🏿♀️
Can We Now Trust The Process 🤔🤷🏿♀️ or Should We Still Remain Cautious 🙇🏿♀️
Very good articles eduardo.
Just a quick comeback to Mike, AJ and karsene. And that is that you are talking out of your backsides if you think we have sold our best players in the past 5 years.
1) Henry. Wasn't fit and offered little in his last season with us and did nothing in the whole of his first season in Spain. There is no way he had anything left to offer in a league as physically tough as the EPL.
2) Vieira. Phoned in half of his performances for us in his final season. Has done nothing since to show he would have had anything to offer in a league etc.
3) Hleb. Lost his bottle when he saw Eduardo's ankle hanging off. Stopped playing and couldn't wait to get out of the EPL to the extent he got himself sent off against Reading to miss the last 3 games of the season.
4) Gilberto. Was slowing down and would have only been a bit part player for us as he was for a large part of his final season.
5) Dennis. Retired. Even Dennis didn't play so much in his last season.
6) Freddie. Did nothing for us in his last couple of seasons and you saw how bad he was for West Ham.
7) Pires. The one player who I think we should have kept for another couple of seasons.
TH14, DB10, PV4 and Bobby were brilliant in their time, but that had largely been and gone and they weren't our best players when they went.
It's an unfortunate fact of life that some teams come to the end of their cycle and have to be totally rebuilt.
It coincided with us spending £100m upfront on The Emirates and then all the costs of building the stadium after that.
To replace the likes of TH14, DB10, PV4 and Bobby would have taken £100m. In today's market you would expect at least £200m for them. These players don't grow on trees and when you are skint you have to find other ways of replacing them.
Arsene Wenger put a 10 year plan in place in about 2000 to develop our own players. It takes that long to get players in this country to the same level of technical ability as their foreign counterparts. That's why he brought in so many foreign players aged 16+ originally and why it is only in the last 2 or 3 years we are seeing English players at Arsenal who are as technically good.
In the meantime Wenger had no option but to take youthful players and promote some of them before their time. Cesc is an obvious exception, but he lost the greedy c*nt Cole so had to play Clichy before he wanted to. A number of others had to learn how to play for a major club like Arsenal at the highest level of world club football while still maintaining our CL position.
Yet we are still way ahead of many clubs who have spent absolute fortunes and only just behind 2 clubs who have not only spent fortunes, but have spent money they do not have.
To maintain our position in the top 3 while totally rebuilding the greatest domestic club side this country has ever seen and at the same time spending £467m on a new stadium while still being the best footballing side in the country while having an injury list for the past 5 years that would cripple any other team plus bringing through many supremely talented youngsters is nothing short of a miracle.
Ferguson has bought about 10 players who cost between £15m ans £32m to drag themselves from also rans to champions in the last 6 years and Chelsea have spent £300m plus hundreds and hundreds of millions on wages to win championships.
And yet you moan about not winning this and not winning that.
It's like entering car rallies with enough money for a car with a 1600cc engine with about enough money to buy untested spare parts while your competitors are buying 3 litre engined cars and can go out and buy expensive replacement parts and it doesn't matter if some of them don't fit the car because money is no object. The only thing that makes you able to compete is that you have a superb driver who can get the maximum out of the car.
That's what it's been like at Arsenal for 5 years, yet you ungrateful whingeing b*stards moan if we don't win each race.
To carry on the analogy, it now seems as if we can afford some expensive replacement parts and the driver can specify to the owners what we need.
I will be disappointed if we don't get 2 or 3 of them, because they are required.
But the last thing I would do is make some pathetic protest.
It's childish and counterproductive. Because what person in their right mind would take any notice of a bunch of w*nkers holding up banners and slagging them off.
That's really going to make him do what they want isn't it?
Just a quick comeback to Mike, AJ and karsene. And that is that you are talking out of your backsides if you think we have sold our best players in the past 5 years.
1) Henry. Wasn't fit and offered little in his last season with us and did nothing in the whole of his first season in Spain. There is no way he had anything left to offer in a league as physically tough as the EPL.
2) Vieira. Phoned in half of his performances for us in his final season. Has done nothing since to show he would have had anything to offer in a league etc.
3) Hleb. Lost his bottle when he saw Eduardo's ankle hanging off. Stopped playing and couldn't wait to get out of the EPL to the extent he got himself sent off against Reading to miss the last 3 games of the season.
4) Gilberto. Was slowing down and would have only been a bit part player for us as he was for a large part of his final season.
5) Dennis. Retired. Even Dennis didn't play so much in his last season.
6) Freddie. Did nothing for us in his last couple of seasons and you saw how bad he was for West Ham.
7) Pires. The one player who I think we should have kept for another couple of seasons.
TH14, DB10, PV4 and Bobby were brilliant in their time, but that had largely been and gone and they weren't our best players when they went.
It's an unfortunate fact of life that some teams come to the end of their cycle and have to be totally rebuilt.
It coincided with us spending £100m upfront on The Emirates and then all the costs of building the stadium after that.
To replace the likes of TH14, DB10, PV4 and Bobby would have taken £100m. In today's market you would expect at least £200m for them. These players don't grow on trees and when you are skint you have to find other ways of replacing them.
Arsene Wenger put a 10 year plan in place in about 2000 to develop our own players. It takes that long to get players in this country to the same level of technical ability as their foreign counterparts. That's why he brought in so many foreign players aged 16+ originally and why it is only in the last 2 or 3 years we are seeing English players at Arsenal who are as technically good.
In the meantime Wenger had no option but to take youthful players and promote some of them before their time. Cesc is an obvious exception, but he lost the greedy c*nt Cole so had to play Clichy before he wanted to. A number of others had to learn how to play for a major club like Arsenal at the highest level of world club football while still maintaining our CL position.
Yet we are still way ahead of many clubs who have spent absolute fortunes and only just behind 2 clubs who have not only spent fortunes, but have spent money they do not have.
To maintain our position in the top 3 while totally rebuilding the greatest domestic club side this country has ever seen and at the same time spending £467m on a new stadium while still being the best footballing side in the country while having an injury list for the past 5 years that would cripple any other team plus bringing through many supremely talented youngsters is nothing short of a miracle.
Ferguson has bought about 10 players who cost between £15m ans £32m to drag themselves from also rans to champions in the last 6 years and Chelsea have spent £300m plus hundreds and hundreds of millions on wages to win championships.
And yet you moan about not winning this and not winning that.
It's like entering car rallies with enough money for a car with a 1600cc engine with about enough money to buy untested spare parts while your competitors are buying 3 litre engined cars and can go out and buy expensive replacement parts and it doesn't matter if some of them don't fit the car because money is no object. The only thing that makes you able to compete is that you have a superb driver who can get the maximum out of the car.
That's what it's been like at Arsenal for 5 years, yet you ungrateful whingeing b*stards moan if we don't win each race.
To carry on the analogy, it now seems as if we can afford some expensive replacement parts and the driver can specify to the owners what we need.
I will be disappointed if we don't get 2 or 3 of them, because they are required.
But the last thing I would do is make some pathetic protest.
It's childish and counterproductive. Because what person in their right mind would take any notice of a bunch of w*nkers holding up banners and slagging them off.
That's really going to make him do what they want isn't it?
Chapman I did point out in the article that most fans would rather a cup than high league finish, but not one owner, manager or top player would swap CL football for FAC or CC win, as you said its the modern way of the world. And you are right that it all changed with the setting up of the CL to include non league winners.
Right Mike to explain why the players had to get new contracts, and what the achieved and why we now need more players than a few years ago
1. what the players achieved
players like Denilson played more FAPL games than any other memeber of our squad, this alone has always warranted an improved contract for any young player, same goes for any player who has greatly improved the amount of games they took part in, its the same for manu, chelsea, stoke, burnley etc, become a more regular memeber of the first team squad and you get an improved contract. And like it or not last season(08-09) the team got to two semi finals and qualified for CL, again that made money for the club and now whenever a club makes money the players have to get their cut added to their contracts, way of the football world
2. why the players had to be given new contracts
very simply three good reasons,
a) new tax rate - players at all clubs are getting pay rises to compensate for losing more to tax
b) sterling dropping to the Euro - again like the tax some players losing out on amount the actually got paid, so had to be adjusted
c) biggest of all Webster clause added to the bosman rule means clubs have to cover their investment in players, its now not uncommon for players to sit out last year of a contract (a la Flamoney and lets not forget our new striker Chamakh) and walk out on a bosman free, so clubs have been for a while had to pay more just to safe guard the possible transfer fee, but now with the Webster clause clubs have to safe gurad against what Hleb done to Arsenal, that is threaten to buy out his contract for I believe is a % of remaining wages left on contract, so clubs do not get the full value if a player goes through with it, its not common yet, but what is common is players doing like Hleb and getting his move for under his true value,
so even though we signed 17 or more players to contract extensions this does not mean Wenger thinks or even intends to keep them much longer, it means if we do sell or if we are forced to sell(player demands a move) we should get a proper transfe fee, what has to be weighed up when giving a new contract is how much we will be out on the pay rise and will we get that or more extra on his fee if we sell him.
One more thing on contract extensions, many players, especially younger ones, have it written into thier contracts that once they do x, y or z (games played, goals, international level) they will be given improved terms, you have to remember that now most players sign over image rights to the club and the club makes money off this, if an Arsenal supporter from Brazil buys an Arsenal strip he is probably more likey to get Denilson on the back, an English fan might get Walcott on his etc, look what pompey owed Sol, that was all image rights related, so you can see why an Arsenal players would be worth much more
Mike I do agree that we should have bought more, I said it in the article, but you like most grass is greener brigade overlook that cos its does not fit with your view that my article is as you put it a Wenger knows best article, and you probably had made up your mind on its contents before you even read it once you see who wrote it.
I touched on why we did not spend more, and I will now explain why debt was paid off with the flats sale and not put to team transfers first, again, clauses in the loan agreements meant we had to pay off certain parts of the loan when x amount of flats sold, also its my understanding that the recession held things up by about 18 months, and this too brought the club close to a deadline that would mean paying a larger sum for the loan, so again short term pain for long term gain, now as I stated if we don't this summer have a large transfer budget then something is really wrong, cos the property loans are paid, and the stadium loan is a low fix rate repayment scheme so should not imping on cash flow in a massive way.
Right Mike to explain why the players had to get new contracts, and what the achieved and why we now need more players than a few years ago
1. what the players achieved
players like Denilson played more FAPL games than any other memeber of our squad, this alone has always warranted an improved contract for any young player, same goes for any player who has greatly improved the amount of games they took part in, its the same for manu, chelsea, stoke, burnley etc, become a more regular memeber of the first team squad and you get an improved contract. And like it or not last season(08-09) the team got to two semi finals and qualified for CL, again that made money for the club and now whenever a club makes money the players have to get their cut added to their contracts, way of the football world
2. why the players had to be given new contracts
very simply three good reasons,
a) new tax rate - players at all clubs are getting pay rises to compensate for losing more to tax
b) sterling dropping to the Euro - again like the tax some players losing out on amount the actually got paid, so had to be adjusted
c) biggest of all Webster clause added to the bosman rule means clubs have to cover their investment in players, its now not uncommon for players to sit out last year of a contract (a la Flamoney and lets not forget our new striker Chamakh) and walk out on a bosman free, so clubs have been for a while had to pay more just to safe guard the possible transfer fee, but now with the Webster clause clubs have to safe gurad against what Hleb done to Arsenal, that is threaten to buy out his contract for I believe is a % of remaining wages left on contract, so clubs do not get the full value if a player goes through with it, its not common yet, but what is common is players doing like Hleb and getting his move for under his true value,
so even though we signed 17 or more players to contract extensions this does not mean Wenger thinks or even intends to keep them much longer, it means if we do sell or if we are forced to sell(player demands a move) we should get a proper transfe fee, what has to be weighed up when giving a new contract is how much we will be out on the pay rise and will we get that or more extra on his fee if we sell him.
One more thing on contract extensions, many players, especially younger ones, have it written into thier contracts that once they do x, y or z (games played, goals, international level) they will be given improved terms, you have to remember that now most players sign over image rights to the club and the club makes money off this, if an Arsenal supporter from Brazil buys an Arsenal strip he is probably more likey to get Denilson on the back, an English fan might get Walcott on his etc, look what pompey owed Sol, that was all image rights related, so you can see why an Arsenal players would be worth much more
Mike I do agree that we should have bought more, I said it in the article, but you like most grass is greener brigade overlook that cos its does not fit with your view that my article is as you put it a Wenger knows best article, and you probably had made up your mind on its contents before you even read it once you see who wrote it.
I touched on why we did not spend more, and I will now explain why debt was paid off with the flats sale and not put to team transfers first, again, clauses in the loan agreements meant we had to pay off certain parts of the loan when x amount of flats sold, also its my understanding that the recession held things up by about 18 months, and this too brought the club close to a deadline that would mean paying a larger sum for the loan, so again short term pain for long term gain, now as I stated if we don't this summer have a large transfer budget then something is really wrong, cos the property loans are paid, and the stadium loan is a low fix rate repayment scheme so should not imping on cash flow in a massive way.
Si 
Since the end of WW1, 1919, when the FA restarted its 4 tier football league, with Arsenal fc in the 1st div, there’s only ever been one club to have never been relegated from Div 1/ EPL.
Arsenal fc
Let’s keep making history
Since the end of WW1, 1919, when the FA restarted its 4 tier football league, with Arsenal fc in the 1st div, there’s only ever been one club to have never been relegated from Div 1/ EPL.
Arsenal fc
Let’s keep making history
Wrongly posted in this thread....
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010:05:18:09:13:12 by SandyB.
Sol is great, but he is .5 of a CB, he cant play 2 games in a week
"When we had to suffer the team is a lion because they suffer together." 4 July 2020 at Wolverhampton Wanderers
Arteta on his team's first away victory at a club above them in the Premiership since September 2015 at Leicester.
"When we had to suffer the team is a lion because they suffer together." 4 July 2020 at Wolverhampton Wanderers
Arteta on his team's first away victory at a club above them in the Premiership since September 2015 at Leicester.
1. Simon your post doesn't answer G_M, it states the obvious about why players left, we're supposed to have scouts all over the world and the sale of KT and EA shows we had money and it was a chance for Arsenal to not be the annual 2 players away from the title. Arsenal normally spend little on players under Wenger, always have, we're now fielding players that haven't costed anything at all.
2. Maybe young Arsenal supporters want to see the team win something, as I've said watching us win the Cup winner cup when I was about 12 under Graham was great.
3. Let people protest, it won't change a thing.
Theodore roosevelt - In any moment of decision, the best thing you can do is the right thing, the next best thing is the wrong thing, and the worst thing you can do is nothing.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010:05:18:09:05:12 by karsene16.
2. Maybe young Arsenal supporters want to see the team win something, as I've said watching us win the Cup winner cup when I was about 12 under Graham was great.
3. Let people protest, it won't change a thing.
Theodore roosevelt - In any moment of decision, the best thing you can do is the right thing, the next best thing is the wrong thing, and the worst thing you can do is nothing.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010:05:18:09:05:12 by karsene16.
I dint care what anyone says about money Wenger should have bought a striker at Xmas. 10 more goals would ahve won us the league.
There is such a thing as false economy
"When we had to suffer the team is a lion because they suffer together." 4 July 2020 at Wolverhampton Wanderers
Arteta on his team's first away victory at a club above them in the Premiership since September 2015 at Leicester.
There is such a thing as false economy
"When we had to suffer the team is a lion because they suffer together." 4 July 2020 at Wolverhampton Wanderers
Arteta on his team's first away victory at a club above them in the Premiership since September 2015 at Leicester.
I agree with Gooner Mike and Padre on this one 100%. The supporters are starting to make excuses hand over fist to accommodate or plaster over the gaps in order that we (the supporters) end up doing the job of Gazidiz and Wenger for them, which is the art of smoke and mirrors and slight of hand.
Look here it is, Arsenal this year got demolished, not merely beaten by Man Utd, Chelsea, Man city and especially Barca, we lost to the spuds, to Wigan, to Burnley and on and on etc etc and with RvP and Cesc out of the team we looked at times an average team at best and shi.te at worst, yes sh/te !
I was one of those optimistic supporters for 3 years. After three years without a trophy I said "Arsene is a one off, a genius and I will question everything else before I question his footballing decisions".
After the fourth year all I could see was all of our best players leaving and being replaced by journeymen and players that might be very good, one day..............maybe ?!
Is Denilsen very good ? No. Is Djourou very good ? No.
Is Bendtner very good ? No, but maybe one day ?! Is Silvestre any good at all ? Hell Noooo. Is Campbell ? Yes, but only once a fortnight.
Here are our top quality players, RvP, Cesc, Arshavin (when he can be bothered) Vermaelen, Song, Clichy.
Everyone else is either unproven, over the hill (by way of age or injury) or are simply not good enough and they are the facts in the cold light of day and the same reason why we do need 4 or 5 world class players in order to start winning anything again.
Rosicky, Eduardo (as much as that pains me to say) Silvestre and even Campbell these were not footballing decisions, to purchase or let go or keep ? they were financial ones and they were a gamble each in their own right and only Campbell paid out.
The problem is that Wenger is not making footballing decisions in as much as Financial ones recently and surely that is not his job ?
The Chamakh deal looks promising but this boy only got 15 goals in over 40 games and he plays in France, no disrespect.
For me the available quality is David Villa, David Silver even Mata, Benzema, Chiellini, players like these would make a big difference to our squad as well as a financial debt, but if we offload 8 or 9 we will have recovered a substantial
amount of that debt.
If that does not happen and I do not think it will ?! Then we had better be happy with CL qualification and see that as our trophy for the foreseeable future.
I don't like it and I will moan, its my right. But I have accepted it as the most probable variation on reality given the circumstances and the facts.
Look here it is, Arsenal this year got demolished, not merely beaten by Man Utd, Chelsea, Man city and especially Barca, we lost to the spuds, to Wigan, to Burnley and on and on etc etc and with RvP and Cesc out of the team we looked at times an average team at best and shi.te at worst, yes sh/te !
I was one of those optimistic supporters for 3 years. After three years without a trophy I said "Arsene is a one off, a genius and I will question everything else before I question his footballing decisions".
After the fourth year all I could see was all of our best players leaving and being replaced by journeymen and players that might be very good, one day..............maybe ?!
Is Denilsen very good ? No. Is Djourou very good ? No.
Is Bendtner very good ? No, but maybe one day ?! Is Silvestre any good at all ? Hell Noooo. Is Campbell ? Yes, but only once a fortnight.
Here are our top quality players, RvP, Cesc, Arshavin (when he can be bothered) Vermaelen, Song, Clichy.
Everyone else is either unproven, over the hill (by way of age or injury) or are simply not good enough and they are the facts in the cold light of day and the same reason why we do need 4 or 5 world class players in order to start winning anything again.
Rosicky, Eduardo (as much as that pains me to say) Silvestre and even Campbell these were not footballing decisions, to purchase or let go or keep ? they were financial ones and they were a gamble each in their own right and only Campbell paid out.
The problem is that Wenger is not making footballing decisions in as much as Financial ones recently and surely that is not his job ?
The Chamakh deal looks promising but this boy only got 15 goals in over 40 games and he plays in France, no disrespect.
For me the available quality is David Villa, David Silver even Mata, Benzema, Chiellini, players like these would make a big difference to our squad as well as a financial debt, but if we offload 8 or 9 we will have recovered a substantial
amount of that debt.
If that does not happen and I do not think it will ?! Then we had better be happy with CL qualification and see that as our trophy for the foreseeable future.
I don't like it and I will moan, its my right. But I have accepted it as the most probable variation on reality given the circumstances and the facts.
Agree.
What I hate is seeing hordes of kids walking around with
Chav shirts on. These are the supporters of the future,
the people who will be paying the Chavs their wages in
2020 and beyond.
We need to win something and look like the team we were
five years ago to capture the hearts and minds of stupid
ten year olds who only understand success not pretty
possession football that yields **** all.
What I hate is seeing hordes of kids walking around with
Chav shirts on. These are the supporters of the future,
the people who will be paying the Chavs their wages in
2020 and beyond.
We need to win something and look like the team we were
five years ago to capture the hearts and minds of stupid
ten year olds who only understand success not pretty
possession football that yields **** all.
Agreed Chapman, I never used to see Chav shirts or very rarely near where I am. Now they are everywhere and the support base is growing for one reason and one reason only.............................they are winning things !
Because of that they get favour in the media in terms of positive promotion and in football not all press is good press.
As unlikely as it is and ridiculous as it may seem these kids listen to the most idiotic of pundits and even more scarily so do a lot of adults.
The Cesc to Barca talk is hotting up and I 'll tell you this now, If Cesc leaves we will be rebuilding for another 5 years.
We are in trouble, Barca have agreed terms with Valencia for Villa and they look as though they will get Cesc too and this is why they win.
They buy the best players in positions that need strengthening whilst keeping their best players, Madrid do it, the Chavs do it but we do the complete opposite and no one can argue now that the consequences are being called in.
Because of that they get favour in the media in terms of positive promotion and in football not all press is good press.
As unlikely as it is and ridiculous as it may seem these kids listen to the most idiotic of pundits and even more scarily so do a lot of adults.
The Cesc to Barca talk is hotting up and I 'll tell you this now, If Cesc leaves we will be rebuilding for another 5 years.
We are in trouble, Barca have agreed terms with Valencia for Villa and they look as though they will get Cesc too and this is why they win.
They buy the best players in positions that need strengthening whilst keeping their best players, Madrid do it, the Chavs do it but we do the complete opposite and no one can argue now that the consequences are being called in.
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