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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2010:09:17:15:22:24 by Mikey.

Maxime Blanchard to score anytime and Tranmere to win, 14/1, I will have a bit of that!

2 - 1 to rovers and up the table we climb

Being a pessimistic git I'll go for 1-1.

tough call this one they will fight on their turf ! and we may be due a reality check ! but ! I think if the lasd are playing they'll be so up for it, and I think Max B is due a goal, so I'm going for a 0 0 - 2 win for the Rovers

Collister

Darville
Goodison
Grandison
Cresswell

Mendy
Fraughan
Blanchard

Thomas-Moore
Showumni
Morrow

Subs:

Coughlin
Bakayogo
Akins
Wood
Labadie
Cathalina
Jennings

looking at the bench ! think Les will have spoken to the lads about avoiding any more injuries ! may have an impact on how the lads will commit !

Grandisons terrible clearace hits Bowditch on the back and the striker volleys past Collister from 20 yards to give Yeovil a deserved lead.

well let's see what they're made of !

They are made of cardboard! 2 0 an should be four already were being played off the park.

cardboard....................

Absolutely disgraceful and that's being kind.

Les will be lucky to survive this at this rate not that I want him out.

wonder if he'd dare throw Dale on ?

bbc stast have us having most possetion !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ?

Well it doesn't seem like it at all.

Terrible choice of player to take off for Labiadie too by the way.

presume Max had a knock

Akins !!!! Come on Rovers

3-1 now, penalty from ITM

In the end we improved but were outplayed and the performance was terrible.

Guess we just write this off as a bad (terrible) day at the office and move on.

Les will blame injuries but bar Morrow for McGurk it was the same side that beat Posh last week so no excuses really.

Collister 6
Darville 4
Goodison 7
Grandison 4
Cresswell 5
Fraughan 4
Mendy 4
Blanchard 5
Thomas-Moore 7
Showumni 3
Morrow 2
Labadie 3
Akin 6
Bakayogo 5



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010:09:11:17:10:44 by Deadly Submarine.

As usual we have a great win then get stuffed by a side that has had an awful season so far (like us!) We'll probably beat Charlton next week knowing Rovers...

I'd agree with that.

Charlton are going down, Tranmere stylee

Very disspointed with the manner of the first goal. Though I think they were a little lucky that the ball fell kindly for Bowditch, as those kind of stunted clearances can sometimes go anywhere.

No complaints on the other two goals really, but what wrankles is Tranmere saying there were doubts this week over Goodison, Morrow and Showunmi and I thought they might have been intending to use 4-4-2, but playing virtually the same team as they had against Peterborough and getting that kind of result, grates.

I'll be hoping for better against Chartlon. Fortunately it's at home.

well looking at the stats we ahd a fair bit of the game ! clearly still learning ! impressed with the changes Les made (tho doubted at the time) and the differance it made............. as I said bit of a reality check that will serve the lads well

Quote:

@gony
well looking at the stats we ahd a fair bit of the game ! clearly still learning ! impressed with the changes Les made (tho doubted at the time) and the differance it made............. as I said bit of a reality check that will serve the lads well

And in the real world we slump to fourth from bottom

lets be real ! where did we start ? what were our asperations realistically

Andy Doyle on Radio Merseyside said that Grandison was MOTM and that Labadie changed the game when he came on

SWS nailed it. The key issue isn't the players, we've got a history of beating good teams in the past 6 months. The key issue is consistency. Being inconsistent is the responsibility of a manager and I have to say Les needs to be sternly criticised for this.
I would still give Les till Xmas, but if this issue isn't sorted out by then, I will be clear we don't have the right man for the job.
I wish Les the best of luck and hope he sorts it.

Quote:

Deadly Submarine
Absolutely disgraceful and that's being kind.
Les will be lucky to survive this at this rate not that I want him out.

Harsh words which spell anger. I bet you've got a couple of tubes loaded !

eric, young players are going to be inconsistent. They are not going to perform to an outstanding level week in week out like they did against Peterborough. They are going to make mistakes and put in poor performances followed by good ones. We need to stick by them and give them confidence as opposed to lambast them which will only lead to poorer and poorer performances despite their clear potential (Terry Gornell).

Les has his hands tied. He's bringing players in to cover injuries, then more players get injured. At the end of the day, he wasn't going to change the side that did so well against Peterborough unless he had to, so can you blame him for picking that side and losing?

He changed it about when we were doing badly and it obviously had a positive outcome for us, as we were much better second half. For me, none of the blame for today's defeat lies with Les. If we'd lost having changed the side greatly, you'd have critisised him too.

As for give him to Xmas, great, go ahead, sack him at Xmas then let's see who comes in to replace him, struggles with a tiny budget, fails to bring in the players he wants, fails to ship out the players he wants to get rid of, gets hounded out by the fans within 12 months and then we get another man, and another, and another...it won't stop until we have some CONSISTENCY with regards to our manager, something we were building under Ronnie Moore but was torn apart just as we were beginning to look threatening

I can only hope the senior players, and I include Taylor in that, get fit soon. Yesterday we were woeful, the defence in the first half were clueless, midfield ineffective, attack non existant. There forwards are not the best you will ever meet but outpaced our back four consistantly. Don't be fooled by the second half performance, Yeovil sat back on the 3-0 lead, we never looked a threat. Joss did make a differance when he came on, a prince amongst fools.
Does anyone know why Enoch was made captain, was it his birthday or something, or did Les not expect Goody to be fit?

How did morrow do? Any good

matt i have no agenda to get rid of or keep les. as i've stated before i hope it works out. i just won't be delusional and award him an 8.2 approval rating whilst we lie in the relagation places. there is no point in positivity for the sake of it. oh my wife's having an affair with my best mate, oh i've got no job, oh i'm dying of a disease, oh i have no friends, oh i've got no qualifications, oh i'm pig ugly, oh i've just been burgled.....isn't life wonderful. it makes us look ridiculous!!

i also believe in giving managers time, not like the 10 games barnes had.
by xmas les would have had a year to groom a team and having no budget is par for the course in the lower leagues.
if consistency hasn't improved by xmas and we stay in the bottom four he would have lost my support based on facts. end of chat.

by christmas ! Eric have you not been following what has been going on ? ................

Yes there is a point in positivity, because negativity helps NOBODY. It just continues to decrease confidence and when you are moaning for moaning's sake, then it's never good...

As I say, would you have changed the team after Saturday's win over Peterborough, bar the one enforced change because of McGurk's injury?

Don't panic guys, if we're still struggling badly at Christmas I think Les will walk away.

Matt. I'm not being negative, I'm being factual, we're unacceptably inconsistent and we're in the bottom 4. You're not being positive your being deluded, 8.2 for Les WTF.

With regards to the game, I wouldn't have changed the team. Which if you would have bothered reading my posts rather than looking for a quarrel, you would have seen. The point is that the team we have has the ability to play at a higher level more consistently than it is doing.

Please read, listen and think before responding in the future.

Quote:

iagoapcen
2 - 1 to rovers and up the table we climb

Seems that Les`s team of Les`s young one`s and miss fits that nobody else wanted came badly unstuck when listening to the first half when Yeovil took us apart only when some changes happened in the second half did we save some faceand the prospect of us climbing the table to the top half went out of the window and again we slipped back into the bottom four it will only be when some senior players get back into the side and provide more experience
that we can stop the rot setting in it is good having young legs in the side but not in abundance I know it`s mainly down to the lack of money but we need the dogs of war attitudeto fight for points because we will come up against better teams than Yeovil and we could end up hitting our head on a brickwall and find ourselves entrenched in the bottom four all season again I hope not one Stockport away again would be one to much to suffer again so come on Les make some changes in the squad when you can bring back Bakayogo instead of Cresswell move him into midfield perhaps in place of McLaren and bring back Nielsen (when fit) in goal I know Collister has played well but an older head between the sticks is sometimes better and go for 4-4-2 this ranting may be all pie in the sky but something needs to be done. Come you Whites lets get going before it`s to late.

P'boro top the table.............. and we beat them ! are they consistant ?
looking thru Chelsea are consistant 4 wins so far ! but 3 places below them are Blackpool think that shows that it is vary very early to be making and judgements............

i think we should decide when we have a full strenth side.

In Parry I Trust

There is no pleasing some people. We have a great win against P'boro, but are inconsistant. That is what happens when you narrowly avoid relegation, have your budget cut and have to rebuild a team rom scratch.

Who do some of our fans think we are? Chelsea? Reality check. Its early days, we could lose our next 10 games and still finish top half. Have patience!

Slagging off Les and the players is pointless. I agree about inconsistency of young players, but I don't agree Neilsen should play in goal.

Neilsen was not appreciated at the Oldham game. Never a case of players failing their keeper, he played his own part in it too. I admit it was only one game, but Collister is on fine form and has made league one team of the week twice now, plus Cresswell is on form as well.

The problem is and always will be MONEY!!!

If Les had had just £2,000 a week for players, he could have had Macken, Showunmi, Trundle, Owens, Morrow and Hulme potentially on Loan, Robinson being still unikely, but you never know and also Moore.

I'd still have Mackreth and Jennings and still have Blanchard and Labadie as well.

If he could have gotten such forward players for that money, he could have done it for defence and midfield too.

Imagine having a front three like Moore, Hulme and Trundle, then if they get injured, having Shwounmi, Owens and Macken, with a 100+ games guy like Morrow on the bench and not even needing Mackreth and Jennings as subs.

That is real strength in depth for just £2,000 a week, or less in the case of Macken, Owens and Morrow and Showunmi. Knowing all bar one, your main strikers have 200-300+ games experience, not 0-20. Barnes had £2,000 a week to pay Goodison, Les didn't. Plus Les could have kept Curren too.

Barnes had 3 flimsily earned points, at this stage of last season. Les has 5. 1 from a very good comeback from 2 goals down, (never achieved last season ever), a point away against solid 6th place finishers from last season and a win against a top 2 side.

Apart from a question mark over Brown and maybe over Cathalina, even Wood for me can become Tranmere material and the signings made, (especially Showunmi), are GOOD signings. Darville has some questionable moments, but I think about 70% of all the minutes he's played in the shirt, have been good minutes. At least 60% and for this level and for his age, that's not that shabby. If he was about 21 / 22, I'd be more concerned.

Les isn't perfect, neither are the players, but give the man another grand a week if possible and then see what happens. Summer showed the potential signings on offer, without paying £4,000 a week plus for it. Some Les signed, some others he was a little too fiscally challenged to get.

What could Les have done, if he'd been the man to take over from Moore? If he'd had just another £500 a week last season to spend?

The summer market proved what's out there, to get for modest sums, free and on loan. That wouldn't change. That was not just luck. So many plausible signings at the one time, that was almost certainly a sustainable thing for Les to ponder over when considering signings.

I reckon with the 6 strikers I mentioned, plus Moore and Curren. Tranmere could potentially have been another 4 points better off and around 10th place, so what would people be saying about Les then?

This would have been possible for a few hundred more a week, not 3 or 4x the money, though in order to have such a budget, you'd need realistically around another £1,000,000 a season guaranteed, though even £500,000 a season more could have secured them, as that's enough to pay 4 new players 2 grand a week, plus bonuses and have around another £60,000 for transfers.

Surely the club could find a way to gain more finance, even so Les could have another £300 a week. You look at what he's done with probably around £1,300 a week, especially getting Showunmi and you wonder what he could have done, with as little as another £300. Even one more 200+ games player in defence and midfield, could be anough for the 4 more points right now, certainly I think 2 more.

Money is the problem, not Les or some players trying to work as a team and in many cases still learn their trade. Johnson needs to get his finger out and make more finance for the club happen, because Les deserves more than what could be the same as Dagenham.

Tranmere should not be potentially paying players, as much as a team with 2 full League seasons experience and about 2,000 a week less on attendances.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010:09:12:18:53:17 by Matt34.

looks like were stuck with akins,morrow,mcgurk,jennings,all untried strikers at this level.we have little cash,but one player we could afford and is available,for a contract till the end of season is barry hayles,38 but still fit and a goalscorer.play him with enoch and thomas moore if we must play 4 3 3.let the young strikers learn in the reserves,if no good unload end of season

Stuck with???

From your name (I may be wrong) I'm assuming you haven't seen these players play so how you can judge them I have no idea.

McGurk has looked excellent and was badly missed yesterday whilst Akins who scored two decent goals for the Reserves on Tuesday night, looked alright too when he came on.

Jennings is probably the next youngster to make Rovers some money eventually (in my opinion) whilst Morrow was poor yesterday but was working on very little service and it's too early to judge.

On that subject I was delighted to see Craig Curran score yesterday to send Carlisle top of League One - not bad for a player who is supposedly not good enough yet has already been described by his new Manager as a "dream signing"!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010:09:12:18:33:49 by Deadly Submarine.

been pleased to see Daggers scoring for S'boro too

ok scunthorpe then

I don't think it was a case of Curren not being good enough, he wouldn't accept less money and wasn't guaranteed centre forward selection. He would have been used sometimes in the middle and wide areas.

At least that's what was mentioned on here a few weeks back.

Financially speaking though, if things continue how they are, in 10 years, a team like Exeter or Hartlepool could be using Tranmere as a feeder club.

BLERCH.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010:09:12:19:10:04 by Matt34.

A lot of fans thought he wasn't good enough though!

It is not Les who should be criticised for at the moment we have aboard who set a level for wages well below that of clubs with asimilar support base and the result is a further drop in gates/income. The main reason for feeling bleak is that in the absence of abuyer or P.J setting arealistic price there is no end to the situation.Les may or may not avoid relegation but in the present situation is delaying the inevitable. Almost always what a club does has a link with what goes on on the field. A good manager can waste money but it needs someone quite extraordinary to do well when grossly under resourced.
Les is not an extraordinary manager (and that is not a criticism) and if he was we could not keep him.
I will be passionately positive at a match but pessimistic when looking at the broader picture.I envy those who can achieve self induced optimism and see golden linings in the occasional good result.

1 goal in 8 for Carlisle is hardly sensational for a striker. If thats their idea of a dream striker then I'd be worried if I was a Carlisle fan..

Think Craig said himself he thought he'd do better in a 4-4-2 as a striker? He's also meant to be a goalscorer, as opposed to the big target man/hold up player.

1 in 8, his ratio for us was 1 in 7 (I think..)

He was a decent player but he's moved on, doesn't mean we

I'd prefer Joe Anyinsah who departed Carlisle for Charlon in the summer.

Quote:

DevonExile
It is not Les who should be criticised for at the moment we have aboard who set a level for wages well below that of clubs with asimilar support base and the result is a further drop in gates/income. The main reason for feeling bleak is that in the absence of abuyer or P.J setting arealistic price there is no end to the situation.Les may or may not avoid relegation but in the present situation is delaying the inevitable. Almost always what a club does has a link with what goes on on the field. A good manager can waste money but it needs someone quite extraordinary to do well when grossly under resourced.
Les is not an extraordinary manager (and that is not a criticism) and if he was we could not keep him.
I will be passionately positive at a match but pessimistic when looking at the broader picture.I envy those who can achieve self induced optimism and see golden linings in the occasional good result.

Quite. A large percentage of the gate goes to paying bank interst. So, as the gate diminishes, so does the percentge of the gate money increase.
All I see is non-league football.

It's about what he brings to the game as a whole and clearly he must be bringing something to their game as they are currently top of the League and going well.

I admit to originally not rating Curran when fans used to call for him to come of the bench during games but when he got a fair run in the team I had to admit I was wrong and I saw what he actually offered a team even if it wasn't necessarily goals.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010:09:13:13:41:13 by Deadly Submarine.

3-1 rubbish

Agreed, Good post.Unfortunately I feel the same. What do Chester, Darlington, Luton Town ALL have in common..? They were all taken down by dishonest chancers who never communicated transparently to the fans the real situation at their clubs until it was too late. The amazing thing is there are still fans who see PJ as our saviour. As a business model the club is currently untennable. To counteract poor performance the boards respose was to cut the wage bill for the playing staff further/ and by definition the quality of the product even further. In any other walk of life this would be seen as winding up of an interest and its happening right under our nose. I have supported Tranmere since 1982, we have been through hard times since them but the difference is the stakes are so much bigger today, we no longer need a hamper man with an ego.... we need a miricle on and off the field...My son is 3 months old- I cant help wondering if he will ever get to see Rovers at this level, or if by the time he's 4 there will be an ASDA on Prenton Park- Oh by the way dad this is Jon... I've finally got a logon after years of watching others post on this site. Thought about 'sussex-exile' but decided in the spirit of optimism we need a 'Gary Williams moment'.

Quote:

DevonExile
It is not Les who should be criticised for at the moment we have aboard who set a level for wages well below that of clubs with asimilar support base and the result is a further drop in gates/income. The main reason for feeling bleak is that in the absence of abuyer or P.J setting arealistic price there is no end to the situation.Les may or may not avoid relegation but in the present situation is delaying the inevitable. Almost always what a club does has a link with what goes on on the field. A good manager can waste money but it needs someone quite extraordinary to do well when grossly under resourced.
Les is not an extraordinary manager (and that is not a criticism) and if he was we could not keep him.
I will be passionately positive at a match but pessimistic when looking at the broader picture.I envy those who can achieve self induced optimism and see golden linings in the occasional good result.

Last post was in response to this one by the way!!!! Should have hit quote rather than reply....playing dumb...new to the site!

Welcome to the Forum anyway!

Cheers Deadly!

It's true that Les is not the best manager you'll ever see, as obviously he wouldn't be managing Tranmere, if he was capable of winning the world cup with Brazil.

However as I've said before, you give a guy like that around £1,300 a week for wages and around £150,000 to buy players it's going ot be hard.

However when you sign and loan players like Labadie, Blanchard, Shwounmi, Morrow, Grandison, Darville and Mendy, it shows what can be done with a "GOOD" manager in charge.

Yers I do think Darville has in the main has been worth it, based on age and experience.

I'm struggling to see what a manager like Ian Holloway might do in this situation. Him being adept at achieving things with modest finance.

The problem is, if Tranmere gambled and tried to sign £3,000 a week players and got good ones, they might be challenging for the playoffs, but eevn if they made it to the final and lost, being in League 1 again could be crippling, if you start to operate like Portsmouth did.

I actually believe Les has done well to procure the players has has with that kind of spending, in fact Showunmi is a steal considering his age and experience, but some players will play well sometimes and have occasional games and moments where they don't. They're young it's to be expected.

I can't say what would have happened now, if Mahon, Taylor and Broomes had been fit, as I think they'd shown 90+ consistency, not 70%, as some of the younger ones have shown, only due to age and expreience, but Les is working with some pretty darn good selections and is flexible in his alteration of tactics and generally makes the right substitutions.

I'd rather have Les with around £1,300 a week for wages, than Barnes with around £2,000 a week for wages, (based on what Goodison was allowed to earn), who just overspent and got signings like Kithson Bain, based on inadequate reasoning and his "pass and lose" tactics.

Plus Tranmere would struggle to get a replacement anyway. I mean someone like the manager of Newport County, got 103 points in Conference South, but he'll be spending more this season in the Conference Premier, there's no doubt and given the chance to step up 2 divisions, to get possibly as little as another £500 a week, to spend on player wages and as much as Les had for transfers, even a guy like that would question if progressing his managerial career with Tranmere, was a sound move, or keep trying to make the Newport thing work out.

I doubt if he got into league 2, having the same money for wages and about £20,000 less for players, would make him wish to be at Tranmere for the same wage allowance and a tad more for spends, or worse get the extra spends if he sacrifices £100 a week on wages to do it. Not a great trade-off.

Keep Les and give him some money. I've highlighted what kind of additional strikers he could have had, for not much more and he tried to get them all, when he could have just snubbed people like Macken, Owens, Trundle and Hulme as not even worth considering, but he identified the quality out there but just couldn't quite get it.

As someone else pointed out her reecently, you bin Les, get someone else in to tackle the same problem, then they end up having 18 months to do little else and go, then you basically rinse and repeat.

Come on Johnson, just try to find a way to give Les another £500 a week, heck even another £300 a week, might just be enough for one or two quality experienced players, but do it without killing the fiancnes or starving the youth team of development.

Maybe he could try tapping up his new Japanese muckas for a few bob, now Tranmere are cosying up to J-League cahoonas, showing them how English league clubs work.

Some would work much much better, with half a billion Yen in the coffers, that's for sure