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Another good review.
Maul still a work in progress for me but last game a step in the right direction.

Unless there are injuries, I would go same again.

I really hope Sodeke and Knight are retained as this is exactly the kind of game they need.

Is it bad that I would rather we rested some of our key players for Quins and Newcastle? This feels like a key opportunity to try some players that haven't had much game time or deserve a chance to step up.

Id like us to take it seriously purely to respect a comp that means a lot to us, despite the state it’s in right now. Interesting question though, who are we saying are key players? Maro, Williams and Earl are givens. Probably George. Maybe Va’enuku with Hartley’s injury. The two wings from Saturday. Pretty hard to know what our best team is after the last three games though.

Will be interesting to see selection on Friday for this one
I’m unsure if the 8 game rotation pre selections includes Europe or just the first block of Prem games up to the end of 2026.
If not I would presume they will put out their supposed strongest team for Saturday
Wouldn’t be surprised if Itoje missed this one though as his wife is due to give birth imminently

I'd take the pre-selection policy with a pinch of salt. Yes, there will be a broad rotation plan, but it won't necessarily survive contact with reality. Each change made to it will give rise to another change and so on.

Successful hills are here to stay
Everything must be this way
Gentle streets where people play
Welcome to the Soft Parade

🌻🌻🌻

Good point on Maro. It’ll be interesting to see who gets made captain in his absence, whenever that is. I’d quite like to see Earl given the responsibility.

Quote:

The Wolfpack Watch
This feels like a key opportunity to try some players that haven't had much game time or deserve a chance to step up.

100%

Rather than build on the strong end to last season we're trying something new, fair enough but it will also take time to bed in and that is arguably made harder through rotation.
Those things together make it a challenge for us in one competition let alone split our focus.

Focus on one job and do it properly. The Prem is that job and winning it is what counts.
If we can do that whilst sending decent teams in Europe where the players get great experience brilliant.

I think there are quite a few young and fringe players who have really performed well. There are also some more senior players who haven't. Both should be given another chance to show what they can contribute this season.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:10:13:14:56:59 by PaulHerox.

Quote:

TommyKentish
Good point on Maro. It’ll be interesting to see who gets made captain in his absence, whenever that is. I’d quite like to see Earl given the responsibility.

Interested why?
I think Earl is an incredible player and great at pumping up those around him but have we seen much sign than referee management is part of his game and it is a very important part of the on field part of Captaincy.

Quote:

The Wolfpack Watch
Is it bad that I would rather we rested some of our key players for Quins and Newcastle? This feels like a key opportunity to try some players that haven't had much game time or deserve a chance to step up.

I don't think that's a terrible take, eapecially as you can qualify for the next round in 3rd or even 4th position.

However, I also think that winning is a habit and the stronger you look, the more chance other sides will rotate against you - making life easier.

Imo our key players are Jamie (with the injuries to Dan and Hadfield), Maro, Martin, Earl and Tomos. I wouldnt mind leaving 3/4 of them out as it still leaves plenty of experience in Faz, Malins, Daly etc.

For the younger lads like Sodeke, Knight, Michelow, Noah, the Brackens - these sorts of games are perfect for them. Away from home, quality opposition, lots of focus from press etc. A chance to embrace the pressure



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:10:13:13:40:54 by Sarrov.

Completely agree with those 5 Sarrov. Given the cooker injuries that you have mentioned JG probably had to start against Connacht but I'd be happy to rest the others/bring a couple of the bench.

Completely agree that this is a perfect for all of the academy boys from the last 2-3 years to step up and take ownership of a starting XV role. Is Elliott still injured following the Tigers game?

Referring back to the initial suggested team, maybe Charlie and AOC/Michelow/Isiekwe (at 6 depending on whether we want a larger line out forward) in for Tomos and Maro. Maybe even Earl rested for AOC/Michelow as well. Hopefully at some point Eke will get some game time because before his horrific injury he was looking like a big, physical 6 that we could really utilise.

We really need to find a way of getting Alfie fit and firing too as he looked off it in the first couple of games.

I'd quite like a backrow of Onyeama-Christie, Knight, Barbeary. First two have looked good. Barbeary needs game time.
I'd also be happy seeing Clarke start at hooker. Watching him at the back of the maul really pumping his legs to get it moving rather than just hanging off the back of it, I like that work rate and enthusiasm and his set piece seemed very solid.

Watching the Bristol game back and Danny Care says his "sources" have revealed that the first 3 weeks have been a selection battle and that the team for this weekend will be those whon have performed the best.

Goes counter to what Venter and Shaw have said previously so not sure how seriously to take it.

Quote:

PaulHerox

Quote:

TommyKentish
Good point on Maro. It’ll be interesting to see who gets made captain in his absence, whenever that is. I’d quite like to see Earl given the responsibility.

Interested why?

Well I know I hide it well but I’m actually a Sarries fan so I tend to be interested in who captains the team.

Quote:

PaulHerox
I think Earl is an incredible player and great at pumping up those around him but have we seen much sign than referee management is part of his game and it is a very important part of the on field part of Captaincy.

Earl is a senior member of the team, a seasoned international and clearly loves the club. Like Maro he’s matured in recent years from that “energy giver” to a more “lead by example” type of player. You won’t have see much of him interact with refs because he’s rarely been given the captaincy. If Maro is rested then it gives us a chance to see how he’d do, with the added bonus of one or both of Faz and George to support him. From his generation of players I can’t think of anyone more likely to take on the mantle after Maro as things stand.

Quote:

Sarrov
Watching the Bristol game back and Danny Care says his "sources" have revealed that the first 3 weeks have been a selection battle and that the team for this weekend will be those whon have performed the best.
Goes counter to what Venter and Shaw have said previously so not sure how seriously to take it.

I’m guessing Danny Care’s source is going by the pseudonym Gamie Jeorge?

Quote:

Sarrov
Watching the Bristol game back and Danny Care says his "sources" have revealed that the first 3 weeks have been a selection battle and that the team for this weekend will be those whon have performed the best.
Goes counter to what Venter and Shaw have said previously so not sure how seriously to take it.

I think the coaches have said the team has been selected for the first 8 Prem games

Europe has not been mentioned from what I’ve seen and heard

^ This.

TommyKentish sorry there's an "I'm" missing from that first line.
That makes sense. He's already in the leadership group so maybe that's part of the plan.

Maybe its early days but we seem to have managed not to annoy referees as much as we have in the past so far this season.

Quote:

MarkCol7

Quote:

Sarrov
Watching the Bristol game back and Danny Care says his "sources" have revealed that the first 3 weeks have been a selection battle and that the team for this weekend will be those whon have performed the best.
Goes counter to what Venter and Shaw have said previously so not sure how seriously to take it.

I think the coaches have said the team has been selected for the first 8 Prem games

Europe has not been mentioned from what I’ve seen and heard

After the Bristol game Shaw was asked about selection and said something like - we will always play people for 2 games. It was relating to consistency and rewarding form.

Venter's interview with Flatman he said 8 teams were selected in advance. I have probably missed it but i haven't heard either of them refer to the league only.

Venter had said something else about selecting on form for 'Championship games". So maybe Champions Cup falls under that umbrella.

I would love for us to go all out in the comp and maybe send kids to Toulouse but a home knockout game should be doable. We’ve not had one for so long by our standards. Let’s get on in the bag

Good point on annoying refs Paul. That was one thing i took from Venters post Sale clip, praising the players for not getting indisciplined at the ref whilst things were going against us. Given how critical field position is to scoring not compounding errors could be very important.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:10:13:22:15:03 by nedrichards.

Pierre Brousset the ref for this one
Last had him away at Munster a few years back

Brousset is a terrible referee IMO, will have to get him on our side early.

Whilst I don’t think we can win the Champions Cup I would like to see us give it a proper go and so start by sending a strong side to Connaught who are probably the weakest of the 4 Irish teams.
I am actually expecting a team pretty similar to last Saturday and I don’t think we picked up any new injuries against Bristol.

I don't.
"Bath" it. Use it for giving experience to the B team and then get in the Challenge Cup and win that. Much more realistic for where we are and we could do with the boost of winning something outside of our brilliant Women's team. Decent odds on them getting the double this season so would be great to add to that.

Winning the Challenge Cup means absolutely nothing to me.

We have a run of 3 games before the Prem Cup and should be aiming to win all 3. Would set us up nicely in both competitions.

Win our Champions Cup home games and we can then rotate on the last group game away at Toulouse.

I don't want to be like Bath. When this squad is at it's peak we should be looking to challenge in Europe as well as domestically. Bath are looking like wasting a great squad on one league title.

Quote:

PaulHerox
I don't.
"Bath" it. Use it for giving experience to the B team and then get in the Challenge Cup and win that. Much more realistic for where we are and we could do with the boost of winning something outside of our brilliant Women's team. Decent odds on them getting the double this season so would be great to add to that.

I have mixed and conflicting feelings on this.

On the one hand, if you said to me we'll have one quarter final and three last 16 exits (as we have done) in the last 4 years, and likely similar over the next couple, would you take a season of targeting winning the Challenge Cup, I'd probably say yes.

On the other hand, although I'm an entry level season ticket holder, it's a significant chunk of my paltry disposable income (along with the associated petrol/pint), and so I'd be pretty miffed if we weren't going all out to win our home games especially, in any competition.

I’d rather see us get a home knockout in “Europe” and then get the young guys involved in a games against the best teams to learn their craft. There will be good teams in the Challenge cup towards the end but obviously not at the same level of the Champions cup.

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Sarrov
Winning the Challenge Cup means absolutely nothing to me.
We have a run of 3 games before the Prem Cup and should be aiming to win all 3. Would set us up nicely in both competitions.

Win our Champions Cup home games and we can then rotate on the last group game away at Toulouse.

I don't want to be like Bath. When this squad is at it's peak we should be looking to challenge in Europe as well as domestically. Bath are looking like wasting a great squad on one league title.

Agree with this, the club hierarchy still see Europe as the elite competition so should go all out for it
Should be targeting at least 14 points before Toulouse

Quote:

Sarrov
Winning the Challenge Cup means absolutely nothing to me

Not a completist Sarrov?
I do know what you mean but they say when building a house don't start with the roof and honestly I think that's where we are. We are at the beginning yet again not near the end.
For me building a winning habit is one of the most important things for this team and I'm not sure if we can do that splitting our focus.

This season we are spending maybe half the season experimenting whilst switching our focus back to defence.
I quite like the first part and whilst there are obviously going to be cohesion issues which you might normally sort with players having more game time together the added depth should be a plus.
Whether the switch of game focus works is a question and a huge gamble given the way the games refereed and teams are playing but if it work it could be game changing and the coaches and players will be rightly lauded.
With all that do we really want to split focus from the Prem. The last few seasons doing so have delivered nothing in Europe and outside Top4 in the Prem as Barty says.

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Sarrov
When this squad is at it's peak we should be looking to challenge in Europe as well as domestically.

Agree 100% but we are nowhere near our peak so why make life harder to achieve any silverware.

Barty I agree and I'm not saying send a team with no chance and don't care if we lose.
Send the team that played Bears with a few changes to protect a few vital players and if they play well they should have a great chance.

Building a winning habit is partly why I don't want us to throw the cup games. It seems incredibly difficult to switch competitiveness on and off again. As Venter said, "we want to dominate" and this should extend to every game we take to the pitch for.

I would also like to see a home knock out game. I think it would be good for the club and building a feeling of being contenders again.

Quote:

PaulHerox
Send the team that played Bears with a few changes to protect a few vital players and if they play well they should have a great chance.

I would have no issue with this approach. Perhaps rotate Earl for Barbeary, Maro for Nick I and Tomos for Tom James.

I can see that view too Sarrov. I think maybe the broken nature of the first half of this season with rotation might be a point to argue against that as players but as a club its a good point.

James was in the promotions for the Bears game so I wonder if he was a late withdrawal.
A bit like it being mentioned above about George being put up for media it's normally a sign a player will be minimum in the squad.

I think we’ll go strong.

We always seem to want to give the champions cup a good go so think it will be a full(ish) noise selection. No disrespect but it’s a very getable W which would mean we’ll only need to win one of our home games. Could see a few big names out for quins in favour of this one.

Bound do be a doctor venter curve ball or three in there somewhere.

Love this team! Providing no injuries last week, perfect opportunity to keep Burkey, George Martin, JMG, J Bracken firing for Quins away.

Perfect blend of youth and experience.

p.s Hopefully someones checked in Paul herox with Faz selected twice in a row. My thoughts go out to him.

Connacht side

15. Sam Gilbert (22)
14. Finn Treacy (21)
13. Cathal Forde (74)
12. Bundee Aki (167)
11. Shane Jennings (38)
10. Ciarán Frawley (2)
9. Colm Reilly (37)
1. Francois van Wyk (3)
2. Matthew Victory (11)
3. Sam Illo (51)
4. Darragh Murray (61)
5. Josh Murphy (65)
6. Cian Prendergast (107) (C)
7. Shamus Hurley-Langton (69)
8. Sean Jansen (48)

16. Eoin de Buitléar (26)
17. Billy Bohan (17)
18. Thomas Connolly *
19. Niall Murray (98)
20. Sean O’Brien (32)
21. Caolin Blade (219)
22. Josh Ioane (35)
23. Daniel Ryan (1)

If the forwards play with the energy and determination they did last Saturday then I am very hopeful that we will dominate the collision area and edge the breakdown. That should then lead us to having more scoring opportunities and thus hopefully a win. If we want a home time in the round of 16 I think we definitely need to win this one.
I also like the balance of the team and feeling pretty good about tomorrow.

I am pleased to see that Bundee Aki is still playing!

Line up is fine, 6-2 not so great. Much rather Daly wasn’t starting, find him so frustrating to watch the last two seasons. Hope he proves me wrong tomorrow

My only issue with that side is that if Noah or Roti go down we presumably end up with Daly on the wing.

Good mix of youth and experience with reward for being in form.

Strong team and hopefully we can really go at them. They have a strong back row who will target our breakdown so that will be a key focus. They have a few outstanding back line players who we'll need to do well to contain too.

No JMG again but maybe just rested ahead of next couple of weeks.

I'm really liking Olamide getting the opportunity at the moment and hoping he builds on it. I'm presuming we are just continuing to manage Martin's minutes and build him through the season.

Quote:

Sarrov
Connacht side
15. Sam Gilbert (22)
14. Finn Treacy (21)
13. Cathal Forde (74)
12. Bundee Aki (167)
11. Shane Jennings (38)
10. Ciarán Frawley (2)
9. Colm Reilly (37)
1. Francois van Wyk (3)
2. Matthew Victory (11)
3. Sam Illo (51)
4. Darragh Murray (61)
5. Josh Murphy (65)
6. Cian Prendergast (107) (C)
7. Shamus Hurley-Langton (69)
8. Sean Jansen (48)

16. Eoin de Buitléar (26)
17. Billy Bohan (17)
18. Thomas Connolly *
19. Niall Murray (98)
20. Sean O’Brien (32)
21. Caolin Blade (219)
22. Josh Ioane (35)
23. Daniel Ryan (1)

Does anyone know of where our squad cap numbers have gone when announcing the team?
There’s no record of them anywhere on the website anymore.
Would be good to know who’s approaching a milestone

That looks a strong team. I'm not sure how good or not Connacht are right now but with that team we should be targeting 5 points.

Minimal rotation from last week and a chance for a few players short of match fitness to gain more.
Good to see Farrell/Daly. If we play them I think that combination works better and leaves me with hope we'll see Burke/Malins in tougher games.

Really pleased Knight and Sodeke picked to start again. A good opportunity for Barbeary to show impact off the bench too.

I'm really intrigued that we're going with Itoje at 6. He seemed much freer and more involved in his very best spoiling work there last game. I wonder if it's a bit like Courtney Lawes second-coming as a 6 having played mainly lock. It seemed to reinvigorate him although tbf that might just be actually having a rest over the summer.

Only thing we can learn from selections so far is we are definitely going with a lock at 6. I think this is the right move because we’ve been underpowered in previous seasons.

6-2 bench with Segun starting is a recipe for disaster.

Paul clearly didn’t feel he could say it, so I’ll say it for him. Please play Fergus. He is the better option at fly half and I’m not sure rotating him out does him any favours.

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#wolfpack1
Only thing we can learn from selections so far is we are definitely going with a lock at 6. I think this is the right move because we’ve been underpowered in previous seasons.
6-2 bench with Segun starting is a recipe for disaster.

Paul clearly didn’t feel he could say it, so I’ll say it for him. Please play Fergus. He is the better option at fly half and I’m not sure rotating him out does him any favours.

Agree, start Ferg and the 6/2 is waiting to catch us out again

Personally I would be starting Fergus every time.

The Daly - Faz combination has been excellent in seasons past so hopefully they can conjour up some of the old magic. Tomos at 9 is also another genuine playmaker as well as keeping them honest around the fringes - giving Faz a bit more time outside to organise the attack and make things happen.

Anyway, if in doubt just give the ball to Roti

Interesting that we are picking extra locks while the French giants now seem to like a tighthead in the second row! A small part of it maybe injuries at lock but I’m sure they could find one if they had too!

That kit really is smashing.

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The Bard
Interesting that we are picking extra locks while the French giants now seem to like a tighthead in the second row! A small part of it maybe injuries at lock but I’m sure they could find one if they had too!

Assume it is about just getting as much mass as possible on the pitch. If you have 2 line out forwards in the back row, plus the other lock, then you are covered. With the size of the boys Bordeaux are putting out they have even been lifting Tom Willis as a jumper!

Carre must be about 6.3/6.4 - a front five of Mawi, George, Weilbach, Carre and Martin would bust some scales!

Perhaps we should get the Eggchasers infamous weigh-bridge for our home games.
Supporter to guess to the nearest Lb gets beers free all game.

I forgot the new French style bonus point laws are in effect for the Champions Cup
Would be a surprise if we picked up all 5 today, could be a revert to kicking more penalties at goal

Great spot! That means that both Gloucester and UBB got just 2 points each rather than 3.

Rugby likes to keep its supporters on their toes!

It does mean that you only get 5 points if you have genuinely comprehensively beaten the other side.

I had missed that change until they mentioned it last night.

Makes wins even more valuable, no more 2 point losses. A much better system imo.

We definitely need that in the Prem.

Great start. Two nice tries from Vaenuku and Caluori. The pop up pass from Daly for the Caluori try under pressure was lovely

We need to stay out the breakdown here. Ref isn't giving any reward.

We've been woeful since I sent that message.

The defence is all over the place and Connacht have blunted our attack a couple of times on their 22

Why are we the only team with no attacking maul?

The maul is painful to watch at the moment. What are they working on in the week?

Farrell having a poor game so our attack looks clunky.

Farrell really stunting any attack

The maul is so frustrating, Connachts 3rd try was clear blocking from the lifter, the same offence we had a try chalked off for against Sale

We look so disorganised. Really inviting Connacht in to the game

Why is Sione having to move so far sideways for that kick off?

Playing against 14 men but taking 9 minutes to make it count. Fergus needed at ten,Owen to 12, Alfie at 8, Ben to 7. Please, because Connacht getting away with blue murder…

Supporting Saracens for over 55 years.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:10:17:18:49:37 by Supporting Saracens for over 55 years. .

Caluori a defensive liability

Farrell's goal kicking has completely deserted him. Just not good enough these days.

Our defence has been shocking today.

So much for bringing defence back!

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The Wolfpack Watch
Farrell's goal kicking has completely deserted him. Just not good enough these days.
Our defence has been shocking today.

Karno’s army springs to mind.

we are awful!

Much as I appreciate Owen’s contributions historically, his poor goal kicking cost us a LBP today. Generally rusty and possibly trading on his reputation?

Supporting Saracens for over 55 years.

The fawning over Farrell from the commentator made zero sense when Burke created plenty in the 13 mins he was on. 3 very kickable conversions cost us.

Main issue is obviously the defence and attacking maul. Really not sure what Adam Powell is offering us now.

Seeing Alfie with his arm in a sling at the end was not good either

Would Burke have kicked them? He would probably have left just as many points out there.
Attacks have improved but our defence has been on a decline ever since BB retired and has been particularly poor for the past few years.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:10:17:19:22:43 by samgibbo.

Very disappointing result.

Absolutely shocking defence. Please put Farrell out to pasture.

Found the selection a little odd if I’m honest. Just not sure what we’re trying to achieve this year.

On to quins I guess

Well, that was awful.

Summed up by the fact that chasing the game we sub off one of our only backs with any go forward and move Faz to 12, so we can go even more lateral than we had been for the rest of the game.

How many times was Noah left with a 2/3 on 1 in defence yet our wingers were faced with at least 1 defender whenever they got the ball?

We looked like a scratch team in attack and defence. Even the lineout was ropey.

What a very disappointing performance and so many errors by so many players. Noah was embarrassed a few times in defence.
I hate to think how many tackles we missed across the 80 minutes and whilst there was some creativity our 10, 12, 13 axis was second best to Connaught and none of our forwards showed the level of commitment shown by some of the Connaught forwards where I thought their 6 had a blinder.
That is literally the end of a possible successful European campaign. We might make it into last 16 but as an away team we won’t go far.
My last thought is that tonight reminded me that the Prem really isn’t that strong now as Connaught are one of the weakest URC teams.
Not feeling confident about Quins away now!

Backline so slow its scary

Usual from.the balsa wood twins in Isiekwe and Tizzard...oassive and out fought by more pgysical forwards

What picking Faz at 10 tell Burke i dont really understabd.

Daly shouldnt have been resigned and Tompkins tries but is so slow.

Balsa wood twins….genuinely just made me laugh out loud. So apt!

That was absolutely dire
Adam Powell needs to go, how on earth he gets a gig for England A is beyond me
We had absolutely no idea as soon as the ref decided not to penalise anything in the ruck

This isn’t the time for “I told you so” but these are all fair comments that myself and few others have been saying for 2-3 years, whilst being lynched for saying it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:10:17:19:35:28 by Stonexjim.

We just look like such a poorly coached side this season.

The likes of Isiekwe, Knight and Tizzard are miles off the required level.

He is a club legend - but starting Faz in these games is such a step backwards.

Never get Noah in the game enough.

We are so much less than the sum of the parts we have in the squad it's a joke.

Bad looking injuries to Barbeary and Sodeke aswell to add to an awful evening

Yep the coaching is horrific. Too many corporate soundbites and not enough proper coaching.

Please can we coach the handling, ball movement and defence. We seem light years off other teams you have to wonder what they do all week.

Some of the forwards that have been mentioned already are just not good enough unfortunately.

Does anyone know what the injury to Sodeke was?

It all feels a bit similar to the start of last season, hopefully we don’t wait until April to change things up this time. Injuries seem to racking up unfortunately, Sodeke, Barbeary today, despite Va’enuku’s good start Hartley is a miss. JMG and Elliott seem to have issues and Martin apparently injured according to Hamilton. Can’t help but think it feels a lot like watching England, plenty of good players but we’re trying to play a style of game that most other teams have moved on from.

Despite concentrating on defence we’re still leaking like a sieve, the attacking maul (despite law changes) goes nowhere in the red zone even though we have a big pack and the attack seems to be an afterthought.

A season of having to watch Isikewe and Tizard is filling me with a lot of dread…

I felt sorry for Roti and Noah. Ball flung to them from pointless miss-passes and asked to take on the entire opposition backline who had simply drifted across.

We picked a backline to control the game. Connacht were too good for that and the lack of options on the bench meant we couldn't change things.

I thought it was relatively even up front but they were so much more dynamic through the backs.

No defence, no accurate kicking, poor line out, no maul, awful performance. We have a tough pool, dropping down may be the end result

Yep we really failed to fix the defence in midfield and get them into space. Also not one attacking kick for Caluori to attack.

You are a seasoned England International and a Lion.
Attacking in the oppositions half you receive a decent ball out the back from your 12 a young player only recently moved up from the Championship.
You have your 6'5" winger on your shoulder and another seasoned England International whom you apparently have a great understanding with a miss pass away. Do you:
A ) Straighten the line and take on the defence?
B ) Use your footwork to take on the defence?
C ) Pop a pass to your 6'5"" winger and let him run a direct line?
D ) Miss pass to the seasoned England International to try and attack wider?
E ) Step inside, look clueless, fall to the floor then chuck the ball at your 12's head as he tries to come and secure the ball?

All those who answered E well done! You've earned yourself a season long £500K contract and the unquestioning support of your entire coaching staff no matter how poorly you play or how far beyond you the game now is.

For extra bonus points having messed up do you:
A ) Raise your hand in acknowledgment of your mistake and try and make amends?
B ) Blame your 12 and give him the evil-eye while bemoaning the fact you had "no options" at the line?

All those who answered B well done! You've earned yourself 80 minutes game time when you should have been hooked last week at 40! Instead you get to stop any vague chance of the team getting back into the game by limiting attacking moves to the one loop play you can almost nail the timing on. Fantastic.

To be clear the problems are so much worse than just Farrell or even he and Daly and start with us trying to reinvent the wheel rather than build on last season but those two are bobbins in both attack and defence so why on earth do we keep picking them? A couple of lovely moments especially for Seguns try but in 80 minutes!

Two or three times Farrell put in a big miss pass that did nothing other than move the ball wide and in one case turn a numbered defence to a 2 on 1 against. Daly runs the ball back with numbers on the left wing, crabs across half of them then throws the ball to the remaining width totally undoing any advantage.
This is basic play you'd find frustrating to have reteach to a Juniors team.

Tbf I can understand the coaches going with this axis again and bringing Burke on with little time and Farrell at 12 after all it's not like we tried it last season for 8 weeks and it was terrible ... oh wait!!

We're going to p*ss away another season aren't we?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2026:10:17:20:42:06 by PaulHerox.

Rubbish game, dread what will happen when we play Northampton. We had 6 B and I lions starting - believe it or not

As someone said above we look like a complete scratch team. Handling errors, line out errors, gaping holes in defence and being the only team in rugby who can’t make use of the new driving maul rules all scream a team that doesn’t really know what it’s about …

And of course it doesn’t.

Because this team has never played together before. And next week another wildly randomly different 23 will be put out.

The rotation thing seemed odd at the start and increasingly seems to be us being too clever for our own good. Why not, maybe, select the best team we possibly can each week? Or play a team that might be good next year and play them each week all season? What is the strategy? Whats the long term goal? How are we going to improve other than by “being together” and “getting to know each other off the field” and “working incredibly hard” and all that rubbish.

In 4 weeks we’ve had a pretty encouraging performance vs Leicester, a horrendous one vs Sale, a clunky one v Bristol and a rubbish one tonight.

Is the inconsistency (or tendency towards the poor tbh) a surprise when we don’t play the same team twice and don’t seem to play our best team ever.

Quote:

#wolfpack1
As someone said above we look like a complete scratch team. Handling errors, line out errors, gaping holes in defence and being the only team in rugby who can’t make use of the new driving maul rules all scream a team that doesn’t really know what it’s about …
And of course it doesn’t.

Because this team has never played together before. And next week another wildly randomly different 23 will be put out.

The rotation thing seemed odd at the start and increasingly seems to be us being too clever for our own good. Why not, maybe, select the best team we possibly can each week? Or play a team that might be good next year and play them each week all season? What is the strategy? Whats the long term goal? How are we going to improve other than by “being together” and “getting to know each other off the field” and “working incredibly hard” and all that rubbish.

In 4 weeks we’ve had a pretty encouraging performance vs Leicester, a horrendous one vs Sale, a clunky one v Bristol and a rubbish one tonight.

Is the inconsistency (or tendency towards the poor tbh) a surprise when we don’t play the same team twice and don’t seem to play our best team ever.

100%

And we keep hearing about “such a fantastic week in training”.

Quote:

DAOS
Rubbish game, dread what will happen when we play Northampton. We had 6 B and I lions starting - believe it or not

We did. But how many of them would be now?

And in answer to Paul’s question- yes I think we are. How frustrating

If we defend like that Toulouse will put 80+ on us in January

Quote:

Stonexjim
This isn’t the time for “I told you so” but these are all fair comments that myself and few others have been saying for 2-3 years, whilst being lynched for saying it.

Waiting for Togas latest burner account to pop up and tell you to pipe down and that tonight was the latest genius 4D chess move in the coaches’ grand master plan…



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:10:17:21:58:24 by #wolfpack1.

Quote:

MarkCol7
If we defend like that Toulouse will put 80+ on us in January

If we defend like that Quins will do it next week!

Quote:

Stonexjim
In 4 weeks we’ve had a pretty encouraging performance vs Leicester, a horrendous one vs Sale, a clunky one v Bristol and a rubbish one tonight.
Is the inconsistency (or tendency towards the poor tbh) a surprise when we don’t play the same team twice and don’t seem to play our best team ever.

Tbh the opening game was the most encouraging but we continuously played Tigers into the game and seemingly learned nothing for the Sale game.

The thing that I can't get my head around is the team picked against Sale was ideal for a replay of the attacking rugby of the end of last season. The one chosen for Bristol would have worked well too. Instead we picked the attacking team then got them to play 10 man rugby into Sales defence. Yes players made quite a lot of mistakes but good grief the plan was a bloody awful one to start with.

Thank goodness for the Womens team. Exceptional innovative coaching that gets the best out the players, plays to their strengths and challenges the opposition. They also let go their fading legends even when they're still pretty good rather than wait till every man and their dog and even possibly JimFitz can see they're done.

No Prem sides won in the Champs Cip today.

Not sure I agree with these player ratings either…

[www.rugbypass.com]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2026:10:17:22:40:02 by Strangelove.

Quote:

Sarrov

Quote:

MarkCol7
If we defend like that Toulouse will put 80+ on us in January

If we defend like that Quins will do it next week!

It feels like a bit of a lose/lose. Obviously getting beaten by Quins, again, would be humiliating given their struggles and yet if we win its Quins how it defending them to a loss going to help us prepare for Bath, Saints, Toulouse, etc

Quote:

Strangelove
No Prem sides won in the Champs Cip today.
Not sure I agree with these player ratings either…

[www.rugbypass.com]

About 2 too high across the board. Earl, Va'enuku, Segun and Maro (who even so wasn't the best 6 on the field) all had decent games. Tompkins as always was game.
If even half those marks were right we'd have won.

Whatsapp from my Quins supporting brother-in-law
"hows dominating rugby going?"

Next week could be really painful.

Have to feel for Tomas Williams leaving Glos for this. Last season he must have looked at the rugby we played at the end of the season and thought, great. Now ... oof.

Only question for the club is will they cut their losses on the mistakes they've made in recruitment, coaching and selection now or double-down till the season is wasted.
History strongly suggests the later.

Oh and well done to Connacht.
Only the one Lion and tbh I barely noticed him but a committed performance, solid basics, understood and exploited how the referee was letting the game play and they obviously have a competent attack and defence coach too.

This game was like Sale ,first 40 vs Bristol and numerous games last seasin.

Our club believes its own soundbytes too much these days rsther than what the eyes tell you.

We have given good servants deals when they are past it. Thats side today had 3 in the backlune who are too slow for a fast paced attack .

Our esteemd forwards outside od Maro and Ben have been pooor . Isiekwe gets the ball a d literally falls to the floor every time hes 6ft 8 and 18st but plays like a paper tiger. Our maul is the outlier in the league for somehow avoiding a driving maul....

All of the above means we do not control games with no clear style of play , we try to hang in there and win the 50-50s. Thats rugby from 15 years ago not now.

Where is the drive and relentkess engines which is least we should get , we look leaden footed and badly coached.

Quote:

#wolfpack1

Quote:

Stonexjim
This isn’t the time for “I told you so” but these are all fair comments that myself and few others have been saying for 2-3 years, whilst being lynched for saying it.

Waiting for Togas latest burner account to pop up and tell you to pipe down and that tonight was the latest genius 4D chess move in the coaches’ grand master plan…

This made me laugh out loud!

Farrell has been off form for a while now, probably needs to be benched and Tompkins had one of his worst games in a Saracens shirt. Hes been great for us over the years but looks a shadow of his former self

Can’t see us beating Quins next week

My concerns after the first 4 games of season…

1. Our main ball carriers are now injured - Carre, Sodeke, Martin, Hartley and Barberry - that leaves a lot of work for Earl and Sione.
2. Rotation - yes, we have to get depth in the squad but we have to pick our best team available
3. Re-signings - for too long now we have been hampered by over-loyalty to players who have delivered in the past but are now on the wane. Whilst some may still have a contribution to make they should be squad players, developing the next gen and not auto starters.
4. As some have said, I am also concerned with the coaching - I don’t want to call for people to lose their jobs, but there appear to be no fresh ideas across the coaching team, and that would be useful. Going back to a dominant defensive mindset is not going to solely win you games, you have to attack and have a solid defence - the game has changed massively. Why can’t we adapt better to the new pro-attacking maul laws like others have? We had the opportunity to bring in new blood with Smally stopping down, but we brought in a coach who was in his prime 15 years ago and he’s brought the needless focus on his off field shenanigans when we should be focussing on only the rugby.
5. You look at Saints and the way they play. - that has taken a number of seasons to develop and has come from coaching, speed of play and honing core handling skills and talent. I think we are a long way off that level.

We could very well win at Quins, somehow, and that may paper over the cracks, but it doesn’t really change things.

None of us want to have a season like the last few, but already there are signs it could be more of the same.

Quote:

Strangelove
5. You look at Saints and the way they play. - that has taken a number of seasons to develop and has come from coaching, speed of play and honing core handling skills and talent. I think we are a long way off that level

But that's the crazy thing Strangelove we could have committed to a similar transformation 5? seasons ago after we embraced more ball in hand attack then bottled it in the Final against Tigers.

We lack Saints coaches but we have had a squad with the elements play like they play for seasons.
A mobile skilful pack that suits that style rather the overtly physical.
The things that people talk about as weaknesses especially with two of our locks even potentially become strengths once you begin to play a quicker linking game less reliant on static carries into set defence.
Instead we've largely played a style which even if it weren't outdated we've largely not got the "cattle" for. My fear with or recruitment was that rather than using those elements to turbo-charge our attacking game they were sign-posting a return to the style of rugby before our run of games at the tail of last season.

We recruit Burke who I think we can agree is an out and out ball in-hand attacking 10.
That suggests the idea is to pivot more towards that style. Instead we spend the season slowing the ball down and kicking it away and even so initially, kicking aside, Burke plays exceptionally showing what he can add in attack and defence.
I'm guessing the call on the Bat-phone from France comes mid-season as suddenly we're playing Goode in games at 10.

Farrell returns with a bit of Lions form and nothing else and is automatically in the team either alongside or instead of Burke and despite the noise from Dai whilst our ruck ball speeds up for over half a season it dies beyond that.
We finally back Burke with fast ruck ball and a 12 and 13 that complement him and a 15 that sees space rather than opportunities to spaff the ball away and what do you know we start winning games ... until the Chiefs game where I still can't decide to what degree we ran out of puff and what degree we abandoned the playing style.

The point is we have had the opportunities and personnel to have changed style to that which is currently proving successful in this League and others and yet haven't. Worse than that after the end of a season like last we've gone, Nah, lets forget that and shift to defence as a focus.

It's honestly bonkers. If the coaching team were actively trying to retard our progress I am not sure they could have done a more effective job over the last 3 seasons. It's also hard not to feel with Farrells fast-tracking to coaching we will have one of this style of plays biggest advocates and beneficiaries helping direct those calls for the future too.

Quote:

PaulHerox

Quote:

Strangelove
5. You look at Saints and the way they play. - that has taken a number of seasons to develop and has come from coaching, speed of play and honing core handling skills and talent. I think we are a long way off that level

But that's the crazy thing Strangelove we could have committed to a similar transformation 5? seasons ago after we embraced more ball in hand attack then bottled it in the Final against Tigers.

We lack Saints coaches but we have had a squad with the elements play like they play for seasons.
A mobile skilful pack that suits that style rather the overtly physical.
The things that people talk about as weaknesses especially with two of our locks even potentially become strengths once you begin to play a quicker linking game less reliant on static carries into set defence.
Instead we've largely played a style which even if it weren't outdated we've largely not got the "cattle" for. My fear with or recruitment was that rather than using those elements to turbo-charge our attacking game they were sign-posting a return to the style of rugby before our run of games at the tail of last season.

We recruit Burke who I think we can agree is an out and out ball in-hand attacking 10.
That suggests the idea is to pivot more towards that style. Instead we spend the season slowing the ball down and kicking it away and even so initially, kicking aside, Burke plays exceptionally showing what he can add in attack and defence.
I'm guessing the call on the Bat-phone from France comes mid-season as suddenly we're playing Goode in games at 10.

Farrell returns with a bit of Lions form and nothing else and is automatically in the team either alongside or instead of Burke and despite the noise from Dai whilst our ruck ball speeds up for over half a season it dies beyond that.
We finally back Burke with fast ruck ball and a 12 and 13 that complement him and a 15 that sees space rather than opportunities to spaff the ball away and what do you know we start winning games ... until the Chiefs game where I still can't decide to what degree we ran out of puff and what degree we abandoned the playing style.

The point is we have had the opportunities and personnel to have changed style to that which is currently proving successful in this League and others and yet haven't. Worse than that after the end of a season like last we've gone, Nah, lets forget that and shift to defence as a focus.

It's honestly bonkers. If the coaching team were actively trying to retard our progress I am not sure they could have done a more effective job over the last 3 seasons. It's also hard not to feel with Farrells fast-tracking to coaching we will have one of this style of plays biggest advocates and beneficiaries helping direct those calls for the future too.

Agree Paul, we changed the way rugby was being played in 21/22 season but then regressed and not adapted as it has changed again since then. We have a wealth of talent but are not getting the most out of it with our coaching and game plan.

I find the Farrell selection really curious. I think very few Saracens fans now think he’s the best option at 10. If any tbh.

Being really generous and as positive as you can, what is the argument for selecting him and not Burke? Same with not selecting Jack B and persisting with Daly at 15.

I just don’t think the “experience” thing holds water. If we scraping gritty nasty wins it might. But we’re not. We’re getting hosed by Connaught.

So what’s the rationale? We’re not winning by selecting these guys, so the argument “well the others aren’t ready” doesn’t work… What? We lose by more?

Quote:

#wolfpack1
I find the Farrell selection really curious. I think very few Saracens fans now think he’s the best option at 10. If any tbh.
Being really generous and as positive as you can, what is the argument for selecting him and not Burke? Same with not selecting Jack B and persisting with Daly at 15.

I just don’t think the “experience” thing holds water. If we scraping gritty nasty wins it might. But we’re not. We’re getting hosed by Connaught.

So what’s the rationale? We’re not winning by selecting these guys, so the argument “well the others aren’t ready” doesn’t work… What? We lose by more?

I think the argument for Faz is:
- greater control over territory through kicking from hand
- organisation of the back line without a Loz style character in the centers
- stronger passing game to move the ball wide quickly

For Daly:
- positioning
- a secondary kicker without one across the centers or wings
- second playmaker without one at 12

BTW - not saying I agree with the decisions and they clearly haven't worked, but imagine that was the kind of reasoning used

I can continue to make a strong argument for Eliot Daly being in the team as first choice fullback as he very sound under the high ball and has a great boot on him out of hand. Whilst he is no longer fast enough to go around a 13 he is certainly faster than some others and still has a very decent pass. I think his main weakness at fullback is that he is not a great tackler.
It was Quins away last year when Max had his nightmare at fullback, failing to catch a number of high balls and causing chaos in our defence.
In contrast I definitely think that Fergus is our first choice fly half by a country mile, but actually picking him increases the value of Eliot, as Fergus’s touch finding kicks are not his strength.

Quote:

#wolfpack1
I find the Farrell selection really curious. I think very few Saracens fans now think he’s the best option at 10. If any tbh

You and me both and yet they'll keep picking him.

I think basically his body looks shot and when physicality was a huge part of your game not having that is a big issue.
An attacker who is reluctant to take the ball to the line when they're already no running threat there is a big issue for your attack as it makes it so easy to drift. It's even worse at 12 as we're sacrificing our one direct option to play him there.
A defender who is now missing too many tackles or simply backing out of contact can't be your defensive leader either.

I agree with Sarrov that his long passing game is still a strength and yet last game a major issue was wide passes that served no purpose. The big miss pass for the first try in the Bears game was brilliant but that felt like the only time we saw a ball of that quality. Same deal with kicking in field. Normally a strength but only kicked to Caluori and not that well when he had two defenders against him.

As a goal-kicker the stats were mid 70% for him off the T last season? and he's 60% and 50% this season in Prem games. I don't think he's missed a sitter they were wider out but those are also the ones Burke's missing so its an increasingly hard case to make that those are reasons to include him instead.

Above all if Venter/McCall are serious about defence being the way to go then it's even more binary.
Burke is a phenomenal defender and has been since day 1. Farrell is currently a liability.

ComeOnSarries I think the only argument for Daly in the backs is based on his boot and I think its useful and with some other selections the lack of top class field kicking options is potentially a bit of an issue.

You're right about Malins but that was also right at the start of the season and I think it's fair to say he may have been brought back a little early as it was no issue with the run of games at the end of the season.
I think we disagree on this but for me the last half of the season showed the difference our whole backs division playing Malins over Daly.