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Quality!
Discussion started by prentonpete1 (IP Logged), 12 January, 2020 18:29
prentonpete1
prentonpete1
12 January, 2020 18:29
Our glorious manager says we lack quality whose fault is that then?
When o when are we going to get a decent partner for Ferrier?

MESSAGES->author
Doogie'sGhost
12 January, 2020 18:55
We simply can't afford quality at this level. That's no one's fault really, unless you're prepared to risk ending up like Bury for a couple of good seasons. Cast-offs, has-beens, wannabes and bargain bucket scrapings. Good luck moulding that intoba competitive L1 outfit.

Tranman
Tranman
13 January, 2020 12:21
Quote:
Doogie'sGhost
We simply can't afford quality at this level. That's no one's fault really, unless you're prepared to risk ending up like Bury for a couple of good seasons. Cast-offs, has-beens, wannabes and bargain bucket scrapings. Good luck moulding that intoba competitive L1 outfit.

So far this season we've signed other team's castoffs and players, on loan, apart from Ferrier. We've made well over £200,000, and counting, out of our cup runs this season, which would not have been budgeted for. Now is the time to recruit someone to play alongside Ferrier.

MESSAGES->author
Elvis
13 January, 2020 12:50
I'd be shocked if we signed a capable goalscorer.

Jack of all Trades
Jack of all Trades
13 January, 2020 13:00
Quote:
Elvis
I'd be shocked if we signed a capable goalscorer.

Considering how much they paid for him and Mansfield's current poor run, Cookie seems to spend all his time on the bench.

I previously argued against resigning him but, as possibly a short term solution is it worth a loan?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 13/01/2020 13:01 by Jack of all Trades.

Jack of all Trades
Jack of all Trades
13 January, 2020 13:04
i forgot to add, Cookie and Ferrier played together at Walsall a few times.

LongStandingFan
LongStandingFan
13 January, 2020 13:15
Quote:
Jack of all Trades
Quote:
Elvis
I'd be shocked if we signed a capable goalscorer.

Considering how much they paid for him and Mansfield's current poor run, Cookie seems to spend all his time on the bench.

I previously argued against resigning him but, as possibly a short term solution is it worth a loan?

Not sure if Cook would come back to us, but MM knew how to play him, and that is important for any player in any team. Certainly a loan till the end of the season might not be such a bad thing if it could be done,.....but is it likely ?

Aldo'smuzzy
Aldo'smuzzy
13 January, 2020 13:35
Bit of context...

Half the teams in this division last season had no-one who hit 15 league goals. Only five teams had 20 goal strikers. So, although a Miller-like partner for Ferrier would be nice, (1) there'll be stiff competition for those players if they're available and (2) it's not necessarily going to make the difference between survival and the drop.

To compensate, we need to stop conceding the daft ones (which we've started addressing in this window) and get a bit more guile and creativity from the midfield, especially between the lines (which I reckon we will address in the window, plus Banks' return). With better service our forwards we will score more.

To correct the OP, MM's comments after Southend were that we lacked quality in the final third on the day, not that we're lacking quality, period.

MESSAGES->author
Doogie'sGhost
13 January, 2020 13:55
Quote:
Tranman
Quote:
Doogie'sGhost
We simply can't afford quality at this level. That's no one's fault really, unless you're prepared to risk ending up like Bury for a couple of good seasons. Cast-offs, has-beens, wannabes and bargain bucket scrapings. Good luck moulding that intoba competitive L1 outfit.

So far this season we've signed other team's castoffs and players, on loan, apart from Ferrier. We've made well over £200,000, and counting, out of our cup runs this season, which would not have been budgeted for. Now is the time to recruit someone to play alongside Ferrier.
How far does that go though? If you ignore tax and work on the basis that you spend the whole lot, which I don't think we do (or should) aim to, then it's only £2k a week on wages (assuming a 2 year deal). Maybe up to £2500 if you're looking at an 18 month contract - which is surely the minimum a quality player wants. That would have been a big boost in our NL days but will only buy you so much quality in L1.

Tranman
Tranman
13 January, 2020 15:06
Quote:
Doogie'sGhost
Quote:
Tranman
Quote:
Doogie'sGhost
We simply can't afford quality at this level. That's no one's fault really, unless you're prepared to risk ending up like Bury for a couple of good seasons. Cast-offs, has-beens, wannabes and bargain bucket scrapings. Good luck moulding that intoba competitive L1 outfit.

So far this season we've signed other team's castoffs and players, on loan, apart from Ferrier. We've made well over £200,000, and counting, out of our cup runs this season, which would not have been budgeted for. Now is the time to recruit someone to play alongside Ferrier.
How far does that go though? If you ignore tax and work on the basis that you spend the whole lot, which I don't think we do (or should) aim to, then it's only £2k a week on wages (assuming a 2 year deal). Maybe up to £2500 if you're looking at an 18 month contract - which is surely the minimum a quality player wants. That would have been a big boost in our NL days but will only buy you so much quality in L1.

I wasn't necessarily suggesting a permanent deal, but the right striker, on loan until the end of the season, must be out there. Where there's a will there's a way!

misterecoli
misterecoli
13 January, 2020 15:14
Quote:
Tranman
Quote:
Doogie'sGhost
Quote:
Tranman
Quote:
Doogie'sGhost
We simply can't afford quality at this level. That's no one's fault really, unless you're prepared to risk ending up like Bury for a couple of good seasons. Cast-offs, has-beens, wannabes and bargain bucket scrapings. Good luck moulding that intoba competitive L1 outfit.

So far this season we've signed other team's castoffs and players, on loan, apart from Ferrier. We've made well over £200,000, and counting, out of our cup runs this season, which would not have been budgeted for. Now is the time to recruit someone to play alongside Ferrier.
How far does that go though? If you ignore tax and work on the basis that you spend the whole lot, which I don't think we do (or should) aim to, then it's only £2k a week on wages (assuming a 2 year deal). Maybe up to £2500 if you're looking at an 18 month contract - which is surely the minimum a quality player wants. That would have been a big boost in our NL days but will only buy you so much quality in L1.

I wasn't necessarily suggesting a permanent deal, but the right striker, on loan until the end of the season, must be out there. Where there's a will there's a way!

There's also the other factors to consider

Do their club want to let them leave?
Does the player want to leave?
If they do, do they want to come to Tranmere?

Even just getting through these basics starts to seriously limit the options of who is available, before we even talk about can we afford them.

I'm not saying we shouldn't try and find someone, I'm just sympathetic to the difficulties, it's not just like picking a player you like and assuming they would/could come to us.

Bored rover
Bored rover
13 January, 2020 21:06
£2,500k a week might get you someone’s left leg, When Wigan won the division in 2018 their average player wage was over £5k a week which gives a yearly wage budget in excess of 2.8 million a year for the first 11. Their highest earner was Powell on £16k week. Wages have only gone one way. So if we want a top 25+ goals a season man then Palios needs a spare £800k knocking about for the year £1.6mil if it’s a 2 year deal.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 13/01/2020 21:07 by Bored rover.

MESSAGES->author
Matt34
13 January, 2020 22:02
Three possibilites to gettting a good striker on a mode budget.

Go to the championship and get a bench warmer with 15+ goal scoring ability in league one, if you've got £2,500 - £3,000 spare you might get someone for 40%, if they're getting £6,000 - £7,500 a week.

Second possibility, use the cup run money to buy one of the two top scorers from NLN, WPL or NPL, assuming that someone from NL who is in the top 2 scorers is a little too pricey.

Third possibility, get a premier league youngster with a decent PL2 goals to minutes ratio, but he has largely resisted 18 / 19 year old loanees so far, spo that's unlikely.

Micky although being Scottish, never played there and is likely to be not flush with contacts, otherwise there would have been some evidence of this by now, with one or two scottish loans / free transfers coming in, so it is unlikely he would utilise the scottish loan market or try to sign scottish free transfers unless said FT's were let go from an English club.



Then I ate his Liver.......... with some baked beans and a can of coke.

Bored rover
Bored rover
13 January, 2020 22:17
Quote:
Matt34
Three possibilites to gettting a good striker on a mode budget.
Go to the championship and get a bench warmer with 15+ goal scoring ability in league one, if you've got £2,500 - £3,000 spare you might get someone for 40%, if they're getting £6,000 - £7,500 a week.

Second possibility, use the cup run money to buy one of the two top scorers from NLN, WPL or NPL, assuming that someone from NL who is in the top 2 scorers is a little too pricey.

Third possibility, get a premier league youngster with a decent PL2 goals to minutes ratio, but he has largely resisted 18 / 19 year old loanees so far, spo that's unlikely.

Micky although being Scottish, never played there and is likely to be not flush with contacts, otherwise there would have been some evidence of this by now, with one or two scottish loans / free transfers coming in, so it is unlikely he would utilise the scottish loan market or try to sign scottish free transfers unless said FT's were let go from an English club.

So easy, perhaps go into Scouting Matt.

MESSAGES->author
Matt34
13 January, 2020 22:42
Not that easy, but if I were Mellon I would consider said routes to market, as part of an overall strategy, even if when all was said or done they got me nowhere. If they're potentially valid recruitment avenues, to try and fail is one thing, but to not try at all is insufficient.



Then I ate his Liver.......... with some baked beans and a can of coke.

ADD
ADD
14 January, 2020 01:06
Reality is that we lost around £1million last year. We have had the Indonesian investment - 50% so far as I understand it but that quite clearly has been used to reduce debts, pay for improvements of none playing staff. To be sustainable we have to stop losing £1m+ a year so that is what MP is focussing on - we will get more League payments this year but we have signed players like Ray and Payne on long term contracts so we will not be doing much better than last year probably... so I doubt any decent signings will be coming especially as we don't seem to be able to get anyone out on loan....

Prenton Pirate
Prenton Pirate
14 January, 2020 03:58
There wasn't much quality on show at Southend.

MESSAGES->author
Matt34
15 January, 2020 21:54
Quote:
ADD
Reality is that we lost around £1million last year. We have had the Indonesian investment - 50% so far as I understand it but that quite clearly has been used to reduce debts, pay for improvements of none playing staff. To be sustainable we have to stop losing £1m+ a year so that is what MP is focussing on - we will get more League payments this year but we have signed players like Ray and Payne on long term contracts so we will not be doing much better than last year probably... so I doubt any decent signings will be coming especially as we don't seem to be able to get anyone out on loan....

It was reported the playing side had been topped up with some of the money, but much was used to claw back non-league debts.



Then I ate his Liver.......... with some baked beans and a can of coke.

Pitou
Pitou
15 January, 2020 23:15
quality comes with money in league 1 and above. unless we get mega lucky is something we will lack and even when we do get lucky ie: a good youngster or a free transfer they will leave for bigger clubs like Norwood , Norburn , Ginnelly , Power and possible even Mane in this transfer window .

MoanerLesser
AccountLogicallyDeleted
15 January, 2020 23:58
Good quality or bad quality?

DevonExile
DevonExile
16 January, 2020 20:07
We have to be competitive with clubs like Rochdale and Accrington not Ipswich
. When we lack quality compared to them it is not economics that separates them from us but the decisions made about who to bring in and then how they are used.. I very much doubt that our pay bill is less than that of such clubs

Tranman
Tranman
16 January, 2020 20:20
Quote:
DevonExile
We have to be competitive with clubs like Rochdale and Accrington not Ipswich
. When we lack quality compared to them it is not economics that separates them from us but the decisions made about who to bring in and then how they are used.. I very much doubt that our pay bill is less than that of such clubs

+1


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