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Doth we moan a little too much ?
Discussion started by LongStandingFan (IP Logged), 26 October, 2019 23:08
LongStandingFan
LongStandingFan
26 October, 2019 23:08
As a Long Standing TRFC Fan, I, as many other TRFC Fans are, are a little uneasy about the current plight of our team. We all want the lads to do well and our team in turn to do well. We sometimes moan about our performances, our results and our players. We are concerned about our teams position in the league too.
We are unsure about the quality of our new additions and our managers tactics and choice of player for the first team, and bemoan the player budget.
All this may be understandable, but lets look at things in a different way.
3 other teams were automatically promoted from League 2 last season, Lincoln, MK Dons and Bury, and we ofcourse ended 6th, and went up by virtue of the Play-Off's,....so how are we doing compared to our former League 2 peers ?
Well, Bury started on -12 points and never kicked a ball in League 1 before being expelled from the Football League,....so we are doing better than Bury so far this season.
What of MK Dons,...well they are one place below us, with a worse goal difference than us and having played a game more,...so we are doing better than MK Dons so far this season.
And run away League 2 Champions Lincoln, who finished 12 points ahead of TRFC are doing better than Rovers, but how much better ? Lincoln are currently 4 points better off than Rovers having played a game more, and having lost 8 games compared to 7 by the lads. They have scored 17 goals just as TRFC have, but we have conceded 7 more goals, all this considering we have lost Norwood. So, we are not doing quite as well as Lincoln, but we are not that far behind.
So, out of the four teams that went up from League 2 last season, TRFC are currently the second best performing !.....amazing what stats can show.
So our game against MK Dons on Saturday is really important in trying to consolidate our position in the league, and keeping us that second best performing team promoted from the League 2 season 2018/2019.

MESSAGES->author
hong kong rover
27 October, 2019 04:05
I think Lincoln would be doing better if Cowley had stayed..

MESSAGES->author
hong kong rover
27 October, 2019 04:43
Wycombe and Oxford are the surprise packages so far this season..Wycombe have only lost once and Oxford score a lot of goals, but its a long old season and will they be able to sustain it? Peterboro looking good and they are more than capable of going up with what looks a strong squad but they have spent a lot of cash this season.

Fiftyyearsarover
Fiftyyearsarover
27 October, 2019 04:47
Your right HKR ,losing their manager is the equivalent of us losing Norwood not done either club any good ,,could not sleep so got up and just realised I had forgotten to put the clocks back ,Jesus ,another extra hour to waste before the Rugby 😡😡 now it’s only 4,50 am

MESSAGES->author
hong kong rover
27 October, 2019 04:55
Quote:
Fiftyyearsarover
Your right HKR ,losing their manager is the equivalent of us losing Norwood not done either club any good ,,could not sleep so got up and just realised I had forgotten to put the clocks back ,Jesus ,another extra hour to waste before the Rugby 😡😡 now it’s only 4,50 am

Lol.nice one fifty

Zint
Zint
27 October, 2019 08:30
There is moaning and there is expressing concern or frustration. Plus, in general terms, the is less moaning on this forum than in the other place, the forum who’s name shall not be mentioned.

Most of the time the comments I read on here are expressions of concern or frustration. This season will be tough. We don’t have the sustained finances of playing at this level that most of the teams around us have accumulated. That means we have had to take a chance on a range of players who, as luck would have it, have succumbed to injuries rather than gone against their past record. Added to this our only marque signing, Ferrier, got crocked and, despite my own misgivings, losing Banks has not helped the situation.

This season is about staying up, possibly by the skin of our teeth. If we just keep this in mind we should be OK. It doesn’t mean I personally am not ambitious for us as a club, but we need a period of adjustment. Anything above 16th would represent a very good season. Finishing in the top half would be miraculous.

My expectations will be higher next season. Then I would expect us to make a push for the play-offs, not necessarily to achieve promotion but to build on what we learn. In the current situation patience is a real virtue, despite our concerns, frustrations and occasional rants.

coltran
coltran
27 October, 2019 09:32
A great post that puts the current position into perspective. In November 2017 (just 2 years ago) we were 16th in the National League.

Fiftyyearsarover
Fiftyyearsarover
27 October, 2019 10:15
Quite agree ,only the biggest optimist on here would have thought we might reach the playoffs ,survival this season is a must ,if we go down it could be for a long time ,as for the championship ,pie in the sky me thinks ,it’s all about money and we don’t have anything near the amount needed ,if we find another Norwood a bigger club will take him ,it still rankles with me for whatever reasons we never got a penny for Norwood or Cook ,we should have at least kept Cook ,got 3 this week for Mansfield ,but that’s all over we have what we have ,to be honest I am totally underwhelmed with the players we have .,at the moment we have a poor team and a horrible pitch ,not one game cancelled in the NL this week .a good case for synthetic pitches ?,surely they make sense ,not a purist choice but an economical one ,not allowed in the EFL yet ,but being talked about ,a good or bad idea ?

MESSAGES->author
Phil65
27 October, 2019 10:15
If you're easily bored, don't read on.
There are numerous psychological studies in the big wide world, outside of the metropolis of Birkenhead, that evidence the benefits to a person's well-being of moaning or complaining. Without quoting verbatim, off-loading clears the mind, allowing you to focus on the rest of your life. I like to relate it to releasing steam to avoid a devastating and destructive explosion; there are other equatable and powerful releases of frustration that can also be beneficial and pleasurable. Everyone does it, even moaning about the moaners; it's the moaning of life (Karl Pilkington must be the ultimate moaner, including "An Idiot Abroad") and there is a humorous aspect to it. There are those who it gives power to and playing devil's advocate is another controlled aspect that needs to be considered that can help to expand the mind for those it entices to play.
Are we asking to curtail the evolutionary process, to silence the disenfranchised, to vilify the vociferous. Of course, there needs to be balance in a person's life as perpetual negativity can be unhealthy and counter-productive, but the burden of @#$%& must be dumped to wallow in the pleasurable.
We all need allies and others who share our views to have a feeling of belonging and this is aptly reflected on here with the polarisation of views. Moaning/complaining can also bring about positive change, as history has shown and conversely sticking together and riding the storm can have a similar outcome, so neither is prescriptive unless you really do have a fully-functioning, regularly serviced, with up-dated software, crystal ball (even with the existence of this mythical tool of future vision there'll be those shouting "It's not crystal ball, it's crystal bollox").
So vent your spleen, even if it may appear irrational to some (facts and rationality are often mundane anyhow) off-load your own personal detritus and enjoy the renewed purification of your body, soul and mind (well, at least until another one of life's little irritations disturbs you; talking of which, the wife's sweet tones are echoing in my ears, so I'll take my leave, but hey, look on the bright side of this apparently negative conclusion....it's saving you from more of my deflective "piffle" (gotta love that word, it's up there with balderdash) and don't hear much of that entertaining articulation within the confines of PP, but is well represented in the rugby world on a Sunday morning, even when alcohol fuelled, they rarely drop their vocabulary guard (different world!).....now, imagine that "I say, it's rather disingenuous to suggest that Mellon's post match analysis is other than utter balderdash and why is Morris procrastinating in front of the backs when the game is so precariously balanced, I'd rather he extend his horizons and contribute to the fortification of the forward line to enable a more agreeable outcome".
Words eh (why does the tool of tools come to mind?). Off to rugger now to mix with the rugger chums; give me footy and footy talk any day!

Fiftyyearsarover
Fiftyyearsarover
27 October, 2019 10:20
Stunned into silence ,👍

MoanerLesser
AccountLogicallyDeleted
27 October, 2019 10:38
Quote:
Fiftyyearsarover
Quite agree ,only the biggest optimist on here would have thought we might reach the playoffs ,survival this season is a must ,if we go down it could be for a long time ,as for the championship ,pie in the sky me thinks ,it’s all about money and we don’t have anything near the amount needed ,if we find another Norwood a bigger club will take him ,it still rankles with me for whatever reasons we never got a penny for Norwood or Cook ,we should have at least kept Cook ,got 3 this week for Mansfield ,but that’s all over we have what we have ,to be honest I am totally underwhelmed with the players we have .,at the moment we have a poor team and a horrible pitch ,not one game cancelled in the NL this week .a good case for synthetic pitches ?,surely they make sense ,not a purist choice but an econo
mical one ,not allowed in the EFL yet ,but being talked about ,a good or bad idea ?

I also am (more than) fifty years a supporter. I am not an optimist. I am a realist. It was clear that this campaign will be a struggle, even with minimal injuries, and I see it as a learning curve. There are quite a few teams who have bedded in to league one who are struggling this season. I find it surprising that somebody who has purportedly watched for fifty years doesn't realise that the halcyon 4 years (playoff to First Division) were an unusual period in Tranmere's history helped by a relatively high level of funding. 95% or more of Tranmere's time has been spent in the lower reaches of the league. Personally, I would rather see the gambit of trying to learn about and survive in League One than be in the playoffs in League Two. After all, certain posters whinge as soon as Tranmere has a bad game regardless as to where they are , with one even regularly posting "rubbish" at half time but zilch when Tranmere has turned it around second half. That is not a rational appraisal.

At the moment we have Southend and Bolton really struggling for points. We also have Accrington, Wimbledon, mk Dons, and potentially Lincoln all battling to stay ahead of Tranmere. So there are plenty of teams also struggling.

I for one will be happy for the team to stay up this season even if by skin of the teeth. Through adversity comes strength and I believe that the team will improve as the season progresses. They will never be as bad as some past teams, like in the 80s before the Phoenix Rising period.

As for 'the other forum', there is more than one, and one I look at has more rational reviews and assessments than are on here generally.

My handle is/was because I am/was fed up of certain posters on here incapable of giving a balanced view, although I appreciate "Samuel Pepys Phil', HKR LSF and others ( can't remember handles ASI type) who do offer rational views.

Fiftyyearsarover
Fiftyyearsarover
27 October, 2019 14:54
Not being happy with the team or manager is a balanced view ,and I to be honest I get fed up of posters who won’t hear criticism of any sort ,that also is not a balanced view just say we beg to differ

Dan SWA
Dan SWA
27 October, 2019 14:56
To answer the question posed in the thread title,Yes.i rest my case.

MESSAGES->author
sparky100
27 October, 2019 15:02
A really good post, I had not really thought about comparing ourselves with the other promoted sides. Certainly gives you pause for thought!

Bored rover
Bored rover
27 October, 2019 17:16
No, having a moan is part and parcel of being a football fan, just to many holier than thous on here to except that sometimes. Its the old my nan could have scored that stuff.

Aldo'smuzzy
Aldo'smuzzy
27 October, 2019 17:34
Nowt wrong with getting something off your chest or a heat of the moment moan.
Serial moaning, on the other hand, is a whole different matter.
Serial moaners moan more than most because they don't understand things as well as most, or they're less resilient than most, or they're just crave attention.
Serial moaners rarely achieve anything positive because of their moaning. Worse, their negativity often leaves them alienated - who wants to get stuck next to a serial moaner? So they moan even more, ending up in a vicious circle.
They eventually become so consumed by whatever they're moaning about, and so alienated as a result of their incessant moaning, that they eventually find solace on Internet forums, social media or phoning up Talk Sport. There, together with other serial moaners, they find a whole new audience to moan at. And alienate themselves from.

As for serial moaners who serially moan their way through one of the most enjoyable periods in the club's history, that's just sad.

MESSAGES->author
Phil65
27 October, 2019 17:50
I think serial killers are worse though.

Aldo'smuzzy
Aldo'smuzzy
27 October, 2019 18:25
Quote:
Phil65
I think serial killers are worse though.

Good point. Even if they never moan they're probably worse than just sad.

MESSAGES->author
Phil65
27 October, 2019 18:40
Quote:
Aldo'smuzzy
Quote:
Phil65
I think serial killers are worse though.

Good point. Even if they never moan they're probably worse than just sad.

Yeah, especially the clown ones, they're the worst and always look worse than just sad, very glum and depressed, despite their oft painted pseudo smiles (mind you, them shoes must be frustrating when you're trying to sneak up on your next victim). Having said that, I'd much prefer to watch a movie about serial killing clowns than serial moaners; could be a new tactic used by our covert forces to replace water boarding to gather information by exposing them to incessant moaning.

Aldo'smuzzy
Aldo'smuzzy
27 October, 2019 18:44
Or just keep it simple and bore them to death.

LongStandingFan
LongStandingFan
27 October, 2019 20:57
Quote:
coltran
A great post that puts the current position into perspective. In November 2017 (just 2 years ago) we were 16th in the National League.
Many thanks coltran...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 27/10/2019 21:05 by LongStandingFan.

LongStandingFan
LongStandingFan
27 October, 2019 21:03
Quote:
sparky100
A really good post, I had not really thought about comparing ourselves with the other promoted sides. Certainly gives you pause for thought!
Thanks to sparky100 and ALL contributors to this thread. All responses appreciated.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 27/10/2019 21:05 by LongStandingFan.

Fiftyyearsarover
Fiftyyearsarover
27 October, 2019 23:36
Or be a cardboard cutout and say nothing

ADD
ADD
28 October, 2019 09:23
Quote:
LongStandingFan
Quote:
coltran
A great post that puts the current position into perspective. In November 2017 (just 2 years ago) we were 16th in the National League.
Many thanks coltran...
Coltran/ LSF - whilst that is all very true even MM himself last week after the debacle at Sunderland said we must stop harking back to the past! Yes we were in NL then L2 BUT 5 years ago we were in L1 exactly as now. We then got relegated so it is entirely reasonable to worry that history might be about to repeat itself again if we are not careful!
We have no divine right to be "back where we belong" and with this squad as it is now or even with the injured players back I am not at all sure that we will be able to stay up. MM has done well nobody denies that although like 50 does I do feel that at times it has been a little more down to luck than judgement after all he was gifted Cook and Nors by Brabin! MM's recruitment has overall been terrible and this year's looks almost as bad Ponticelli, CBT, Woods, Maddox (who knows?). Fans expecting a couple of new additions in January to transform this team will I suspect be bitterly disappointed...

Fiftyyearsarover
Fiftyyearsarover
28 October, 2019 10:04
Well said ADD ,another thing I have eluded to is ,yes we have long term injured to come back but usually they are never the same (Tollitt) ,or the injury reoccurs,we have to hope they come back with a vengeance or we are doomed

Aldo'smuzzy
Aldo'smuzzy
28 October, 2019 10:54
Most of us would be happy with a 19th place finish. We're 19th now. This is what 19th looks and feels like so we need to suck it up. Look at the bigger picture and the direction of travel.

Conventional wisdom on here suggests we were promoted a year too soon. In other words, we really needed more than two transfer windows to transform an ageing NL promotion squad into a L2 promotion squad. In a sense that's fair enough. So to expect another transformation from that into a comfortable (not just safe) L1 squad in just one more transfer window (or, as some try to argue, within days of winning at Wembley) is just daft.

Virtually all the players we recruited this summer are up to L1 standard. Put it another way, we'd never have got most of them if we were still in L2 and, if they hadn't joined us, they wouldn't have ended up in L2 either.

So, three months in, does anyone seriously think there's no more improvement left in this squad? And does anyone seriously think the transformation from premature L2 promotion winners into a comfortable (not just safe) L1 squad won't continue in the next transfer window?

Clubs like Accrington, Wimbledon, Gillingham, Rochdale etc get bandied about on here as clubs with similar resources who've established themselves at this level so why can't we? I agree, no reason at all. Difference is, they didn't have to go through the same degree of transition that we're having to work through. We're on the right tracks but time and patience (and another transfer window) is needed to continue our progress.

So we're not yet ready to be a comfortable L1 side, and the precipice of relegation will be near us, and probably a dozen other clubs, for many months to come. But there's no reason whatsoever to believe we can't or won't navigate our way to being a safe L1 side, even if the proximity of the precipice has already turned some on here to jelly.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 28/10/2019 15:23 by Aldo'smuzzy.

Fiftyyearsarover
Fiftyyearsarover
28 October, 2019 13:55
Agree with some aldosmuzzy but to survive and move on Mellon really has to improve with is recruitment ,that his his big let down ,we have not one standout player at the moment ,I was hoping more from Connor Jennings but he is going backwards ,I hope at this moment he has an idea or 2who he might get in , January will soon be upon us ,one more chance to show he is not a Netto shopper

Aldo'smuzzy
Aldo'smuzzy
28 October, 2019 15:20
There've been some duds but, overall, I'd describe MM's recruitment as adequate, or good enough. Good enough to address the priorities of the day and good enough to achieve our aims. And his squads, as a whole, have always been better at the end of a transfer window than at the start.

I agree a standout player or talisman is the next priority. That'd really help knit the team together and that one player alone, together with the better players returning from injury, would make a big difference - you've only got to look at the impact Perkins had. If we can't get a talisman in January then we'd need to focus on steadily improving other pieces of the jigsaw, which should be achievable.

MESSAGES->author
Matt34
28 October, 2019 19:54
Mellon has worked with some modest resources and recruited reasonable well in relation to said resources. Injuries have not helpd, but even with a fully fit squad right now, Tranmere would not be top 6. Admittedly anther 2-3 points might have bene possible now even with the list of injuries, but Tranmere are still capable of staying up, so there is no need to be too concerned just yet.



Then I ate his Liver.......... with some baked beans and a can of coke.

LongStandingFan
LongStandingFan
28 October, 2019 22:48
Quote:
ADD
Quote:
LongStandingFan
Quote:
coltran
A great post that puts the current position into perspective. In November 2017 (just 2 years ago) we were 16th in the National League.
Many thanks coltran...
Coltran/ LSF - whilst that is all very true even MM himself last week after the debacle at Sunderland said we must stop harking back to the past! Yes we were in NL then L2 BUT 5 years ago we were in L1 exactly as now. We then got relegated so it is entirely reasonable to worry that history might be about to repeat itself again if we are not careful!
We have no divine right to be "back where we belong" and with this squad as it is now or even with the injured players back I am not at all sure that we will be able to stay up. MM has done well nobody denies that although like 50 does I do feel that at times it has been a little more down to luck than judgement after all he was gifted Cook and Nors by Brabin! MM's recruitment has overall been terrible and this year's looks almost as bad Ponticelli, CBT, Woods, Maddox (who knows?). Fans expecting a couple of new additions in January to transform this team will I suspect be bitterly disappointed...

I tend to agree with a lot of what you have said ADD, and I do accept that there can seem a thin line between expressing concern and seeming to moan. My post was more aimed at the idea of "should we be moaning, considering what the other 3 clubs that went up with us are currently doing in the league". Just taking into account that we were not automatically promoted, and our player budget.
It's normal and understandable to express concerns but we only got into this League by the skin of our teeth (so to speak), and the lads are having to learn quickly. Having sad that, I will be disappointed if we don't get at least a draw on Saturday against MK Dons !!!!

Kentexile
Kentexile
30 October, 2019 14:33
Yes, way too much, but at least people use the forums to let off steam rather than getting on the players' backs on matchday. I wasn't at Sunderland but listening to the game the swa sounded brilliant once again.
Hopefully same again at MKDons (I'll be there this time, and I'll be singing..).

kennyspint
kennyspint
30 October, 2019 22:07
All good comments above. I am enjoying this season much more than our League 2 relegation season and a bit more than our first non league season. I think we are giving it a go Instance Banksie's fabulous goal against Burton. We may go down but we are still in there now. Its a long season.


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