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It’s devastating today but not disastrous tomorrow.
Discussion started by trfc-boi (IP Logged), 10 June, 2019 21:51
trfc-boi
trfc-boi
10 June, 2019 21:51
Some important team players gone.
McNulty - a leader, Nords - Goals
Recruiting the right players will be vital for next season.
In Micky we trust, he must have some contacts & will have a plan, he has managed other teams and knows what other players can offer.
Just want us to be competitive and not struggle too much.

ming05
ming05
10 June, 2019 22:13
He was always going to leave, hopefully club has someone lined up, we will miss his goals.
But we have had players leave before and got over them.

Bored rover
Bored rover
11 June, 2019 06:18
Always going to be a tough season, really going to see the reality of the Chairmans statement in relation to top third budgets being available!

MESSAGES->author
Doogie'sGhost
11 June, 2019 09:49
It depends on how you define top third of course. If you take the budget of the top spending team and use two-thirds of that you get one figure. However if there are 3 or 4 teams operating in a different stratosphere than everyone else, which there probably will be, then that figure will be skewed and unsustainable. So, if you use the 8th highest budget in the league instead it might end up only being just marginally ahead of team with a bottom third budget but a quarter of that available to those top few clubs. I suspect our top third definition will be the latter rather than two-thirds of the top teams.

Bored rover
Bored rover
11 June, 2019 10:04
I take top 3rd budget as maintaining a squad capable of a top 3rd finish obviously this doesn’t guarantee anything



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/06/2019 10:04 by Bored rover.

Fiftyyearsarover
Fiftyyearsarover
11 June, 2019 10:42
Liverpool letting some young players go worth checking them out

MESSAGES->author
TranmereFan
11 June, 2019 10:56
You never know he might struggle in L1 and we sign a proven striker

paulbyron
paulbyron
11 June, 2019 11:19
Quote:
TranmereFan
You never know he might struggle in L1 and we sign a proven striker
that,s the great/worse thing about football we never know what,s around the corner it,s either exciting or squeaky bum time but with micky & mark I feel more confident they will have planned for this

DevonExile
DevonExile
11 June, 2019 17:18
The never know argument has to be linked with the fact that probability suggests that a player with pace, intelligence commitment and a good scoring record is likely to be able to make that step up.
In contrast I have much bigger doubts about Buxton, Ridehaigh, Gumbs,Zoom and even Harris making that bigger step

TwelfthofMay-ResurrectionDay
TwelfthofMay-ResurrectionDay
13 June, 2019 14:35
The last time we were contemplating our first season for a while in L1 and speculating about what our squad would be we were at the top of a long slide down a very slippery slope. In hindsight, I think we all knew what was coming at the time - at the end of the Johnson era.

The feeling is quite different now - can we agree that L1 survival is the objective for next season? We have interested owners, an ambitious manager with back-to-back promotions under his belt and the proven ability to put together a reasonable-to-good squad on a tight budget.

I'm looking forward to the next season, whatever and whoever it brings, as long as we finish 20th or higher

MoanerLesser
RealityBitesHasLeftForum
13 June, 2019 15:44
Quote:
TwelfthofMay-ResurrectionDay
The last time we were contemplating our first season for a while in L1 and speculating about what our squad would be we were at the top of a long slide down a very slippery slope. In hindsight, I think we all knew what was coming at the time - at the end of the Johnson era.
The feeling is quite different now - can we agree that L1 survival is the objective for next season? We have interested owners, an ambitious manager with back-to-back promotions under his belt and the proven ability to put together a reasonable-to-good squad on a tight budget.

I'm looking forward to the next season, whatever and whoever it brings, as long as we finish 20th or

higher

I absolutely do agree with you.

However, I also bet that we will see the usual suspects stating 'that was rubbish' or ' why doesnt he play so and so' or 'micky cannot recruit' or even worse'micky out' if the team is in the bottom 6 after 10 games.

The team has overachieved in the last two years and a period of stability is needed. Cannot win promotion every season. Especially given we now have the likes of Sunderland, Ipswich and Portsmouth with, relatively-speaking, 'loadsamoney' finishing 5th from bottom will be aresult...

Uptonrover
Uptonrover
13 June, 2019 16:47
Quite happily take 5th from bottom if offered right now (obviously would aspire to more)

DevonExile
DevonExile
13 June, 2019 17:28
Agree with Fred that the squad has overachieved and it is one of the reasons why Ithinkthat MM will undertake restructuring. I am certain that he will not be complacent or so sloppy as to think let's see how things go. He has done wonders in refreshing and tweaking the squad in mid season in each of the last two seasons. I also agree with the poster that fifth from bottom will do and that minimum is more likely if the squad is strengthened through a degree of in and outs

MESSAGES->author
Phil65
13 June, 2019 18:21
Sorry folks, I'm just not getting this overachieved thing; they achieved what they achieved and on merit. It's just reward for adapting and developing over the course of each season.
A better description might be that they exceeded expectation, particularly if applied before this season began and to the vast majority of the views on here at that time; the optimists might say I told you so, but that's all it was, optimism.......so glad you were right though!
Every team will restructure, particularly with progression, which draws attention, sometimes out of necessity with players being snapped up by others and sometimes by choice by off-loading players deemed surplus to requirements; if you know your history, you know we never walk alone on this path.
Let's take on some of the "big boys" with belief and see how the season unfolds. Nowt wrong with a bit of balanced criticism along the way, just as there's no shame in biggin' the boys up at will. I'm lovin' my sons eagerness for next season to start. I'm telling him the good times are back; long live the good times!
Football's a funny old game; I vividly remember relegation to league two and the last game of the season v Bradford at PP. Not for the game, but for an action from a Bradford fan. The memory becomes more poignant now as, at the final whistle and walking past the celebrating Bradford fans with a consoling arm around my son, one lone Bradford fan made eye contact with me and gestured and mouthed that we'd come back up. He genuinely looked disappointed for us and it was clearly a gesture of empathy as they had suffered some similar lean times. Well, we did eventually, but not as that fan or I had thought. We've had a soul-searching journey since then and there's some irony that we pass Bradford due to their relegation. Would like to have had the opportunity to return the gesture, but sincerely hope they don't have to tread in our footsteps and their ride is a little easier. Moments like that, restore your faith in the football fans fraternity.

MoanerLesser
RealityBitesHasLeftForum
14 June, 2019 00:52
Quote:
Phil65
Sorry folks, I'm just not getting this overachieved thing; they achieved what they achieved and on merit. It's just reward for adapting and developing over the course of each season.
A better description might be that they exceeded expectation, particularly if applied before this season began and to the vast majority of the views on here at that time; the optimists might say I told you so, but that's all it was, optimism.......so glad you were right though!
Every team will restructure, particularly with progression, which draws attention, sometimes out of necessity with players being snapped up by others and sometimes by choice by off-loading players deemed surplus to requirements; if you know your history, you know we never walk alone on this path.






Let's take on some of the "big boys" with belief and see how the season unfolds. Nowt wrong with a bit of balanced criticism along the way, just as there's no shame in biggin' the boys up at will. I'm lovin' my sons eagerness for next season to start. I'm telling him the good times are back; long live the good times!
Football's a funny old game; I vividly remember relegation to league two and the last game of the season v Bradford at PP. Not for the game, but for an action from a Bradford fan. The memory becomes more poignant now as, at the final whistle and walking past the celebrating Bradford fans with a consoling arm around my son, one lone Bradford fan made eye contact with me and gestured and mouthed that we'd come back up. He genuinely looked disappointed for us and it was clearly a gesture of empathy as they had suffered some similar lean times. Well, we did eventually, but not as that fan or I had thought. We've had a soul-searching journey since then and there's some irony that we pass Bradford due to their relegation. Would like to have had the opportunity to return the gesture, but sincerely hope they don't have to tread in our footsteps and their ride is a little easier. Moments like that, restore your faith in the football fans fraternity.

Over achieved versus exceeded expectation.... Not sure I understand the difference. Please explain in one sentence.

Aldo'smuzzy
Aldo'smuzzy
14 June, 2019 01:29
Over achieved = outperformed better teams; exceeded expectation = didn't realise we were one of the better teams ourselves.

aktrfc
aktrfc
14 June, 2019 06:30
Well for me we didn’t over achieve or exceed expectations. I don’t get this whole let’s just try and consolidate. If you don’t go to each and every game thinking you will win, then why bother. Ok 30 games in and 20 points off safety, then yes the reality will hit home. Ever the optimist maybe, but I really believe we should be up and around the play offs again.

We talk about finding our natural position the leagues. For me that depends on age. If you were about 10 years old in 1990, then you will see us as a championship team, a bit older or younger then league 1. Heaven forbid, but if you are now about 15, the 2nd division is what you would expect.

Aldo'smuzzy
Aldo'smuzzy
14 June, 2019 09:20
For me too we didn't overachieve but, from the start of the season and throughout, I wasn't expecting promotion...so, for me, we exceeded expectation. But it's all very subjective and just a matter of opinion.

MoanerLesser
RealityBitesHasLeftForum
14 June, 2019 11:43
Quote:
Aldo'smuzzy
Over achieved = outperformed better teams; exceeded expectation = didn't realise we were one of the better teams ourselves.

So we over achieved then 😋

DevonExile
DevonExile
14 June, 2019 11:56
Well there was certainly a point in the season when it felt like under achievement when not only were points being dropped but we were playing poorly. MM clearly thought so and brought in some new faces and things began to tick. In itself that was a recognition that there were not sufficient suitable options in the squad.
I would be happy to just avoid relegation but that is a minimum expectation to represent progress. It has nothing to do with not expecting teams to approach each game determined to get something from it.

MoanerLesser
RealityBitesHasLeftForum
14 June, 2019 16:12
To be honest, hard to make an assessment until we know the result of the players comings and goings. If we manage to get in top notch forwards....

Tom Bombadil
Tom Bombadil
14 June, 2019 16:19
MKD are certainly not wasting any time getting their squad to-gether.

MESSAGES->author
Phil65
14 June, 2019 16:35
Quote:
FredUrmson107in333
Quote:
Phil65
Sorry folks, I'm just not getting this overachieved thing; they achieved what they achieved and on merit. It's just reward for adapting and developing over the course of each season.
A better description might be that they exceeded expectation, particularly if applied before this season began and to the vast majority of the views on here at that time; the optimists might say I told you so, but that's all it was, optimism.......so glad you were right though!
Every team will restructure, particularly with progression, which draws attention, sometimes out of necessity with players being snapped up by others and sometimes by choice by off-loading players deemed surplus to requirements; if you know your history, you know we never walk alone on this path.






Let's take on some of the "big boys" with belief and see how the season unfolds. Nowt wrong with a bit of balanced criticism along the way, just as there's no shame in biggin' the boys up at will. I'm lovin' my sons eagerness for next season to start. I'm telling him the good times are back; long live the good times!
Football's a funny old game; I vividly remember relegation to league two and the last game of the season v Bradford at PP. Not for the game, but for an action from a Bradford fan. The memory becomes more poignant now as, at the final whistle and walking past the celebrating Bradford fans with a consoling arm around my son, one lone Bradford fan made eye contact with me and gestured and mouthed that we'd come back up. He genuinely looked disappointed for us and it was clearly a gesture of empathy as they had suffered some similar lean times. Well, we did eventually, but not as that fan or I had thought. We've had a soul-searching journey since then and there's some irony that we pass Bradford due to their relegation. Would like to have had the opportunity to return the gesture, but sincerely hope they don't have to tread in our footsteps and their ride is a little easier. Moments like that, restore your faith in the football fans fraternity.

Over achieved versus exceeded expectation.... Not sure I understand the difference. Please explain in one sentence.

"Right said Fred, let's set Phil a challenge, otherwise we'll be getting nowhere"...hi Fred, Phil in peace, over-achieved is a holistic, meritous, assumption of fact after the event, whose parameters are at best difficult, if not impossible, to quantify and can not stand alone without previous proclamation of measurement of the status of any ultimate outcome, whereas exceeded expectation in the context of this, and previous discussion threads, has an individualistic embryonic status and has a baseline measurement or an equatorialesque line to judge any ultimate outcome and to classify said outcome within any preconceived criteria of progress or regression, but then again, I could be talking through the far end of my digestive tract and just be seeking acclaim for the longest sentence in TT forum history and to fit in with the numerical structured sequence of words that you proclaimed because, as you so rightly allude to, it doesn't matter one iota, but gives an opportunity to tax the rapidly diminishing grey matter and aid in the ever increasing need to procrastinate in our high octane, unempathetic and unforgiving lives....it's all good, well maybe my Bradford anecdote missed the good ship lollypop; enjoy the weekend (Sm128)!

MoanerLesser
RealityBitesHasLeftForum
14 June, 2019 22:37
[quote Phil65][quote FredUrmson107in333][quote Phil65]Sorry folks, I'm just not getting this overachieved thing; they achieved what they achieved and on merit. It's just reward for adapting and developing over the course of each season.
A better description might be that they exceeded expectation, particularly if applied before this season began and to the vast majority of the views on here at that time; the optimists might say I told you so, but that's all it was, optimism.......so glad you were right though!
Every team will restructure, particularly with progression, which draws attention, sometimes out of necessity with players being snapped up by others and sometimes by choice by off-loading players deemed surplus to requirements; if you know your history, you know w

e never walk alone on this path.






Let's take on some of the "big boys" with belief and see how the season unfolds. Nowt wrong with a bit of balanced criticism along the way, just as there's no shame in biggin' the boys up at will. I'm lovin' my sons eagerness for next season to start. I'm telling him the good times are back; long live the good times!
Football's a funny old game; I vividly remember relegation to league two and the last game of the season v Bradford at PP. Not for the game, but for an action from a Bradford fan. The memory becomes more poignant now as, at the final whistle and walking past the celebrating Bradford fans with a consoling arm around my son, one lone Bradford fan made eye contact with me and gestured and mouthed that we'd come back up. He genuinely looked disappointed for us and it was clearly a gesture of empathy as they had suffered some similar lean times. Well, we did eventually, but not as that fan or I had thought. We've had a soul-searching journey since then and there's some irony that we pass Bradford due to their relegation. Would like to have had the opportunity to return the gesture, but sincerely hope they don't have to tread in our footsteps and their ride is a little easier. Moments like that, restore your faith in the football fans fraternity.[/quote]

Over achieved versus exceeded expectation.... Not sure I understand the difference. Please explain in one sentence.[/quote]

"Right said Fred, let's set Phil a challenge, otherwise we'll be getting nowhere"...hi Fred, Phil in peace, over-achieved is a holistic, meritous, assumption of fact after the event, whose parameters are at best difficult, if not impossible, to quantify and can not stand alone without previous proclamation of measurement of the status of any ultimate outcome, whereas exceeded expectation in the context of this, and previous discussion threads, has an individualistic embryonic status and has a baseline measurement or an equatorialesque line to judge any ultimate outcome and to classify said outcome within any preconceived criteria of progress or regression, but then again, I could be talking through the far end of my digestive tract and just be seeking acclaim for the longest sentence in TT forum history and to fit in with the numerical structured sequence of words that you proclaimed because, as you so rightly allude to, it doesn't matter one iota, but gives an opportunity to tax the rapidly diminishing grey matter and aid in the ever increasing need to procrastinate in our high octane, unempathetic and unforgiving lives....it's all good, well maybe my Bradford anecdote missed the good ship lollypop; enjoy the weekend (Sm128)![

Is this an excerpt from a James Joyce novel? Lol

MESSAGES->author
Phil65
14 June, 2019 23:21
[quote FredUrmson107in333][quote Phil65][quote FredUrmson107in333][quote Phil65]Sorry folks, I'm just not getting this overachieved thing; they achieved what they achieved and on merit. It's just reward for adapting and developing over the course of each season.
A better description might be that they exceeded expectation, particularly if applied before this season began and to the vast majority of the views on here at that time; the optimists might say I told you so, but that's all it was, optimism.......so glad you were right though!
Every team will restructure, particularly with progression, which draws attention, sometimes out of necessity with players being snapped up by others and sometimes by choice by off-loading players deemed surplus to requirements; if you know your history, you know w

e never walk alone on this path.






Let's take on some of the "big boys" with belief and see how the season unfolds. Nowt wrong with a bit of balanced criticism along the way, just as there's no shame in biggin' the boys up at will. I'm lovin' my sons eagerness for next season to start. I'm telling him the good times are back; long live the good times!
Football's a funny old game; I vividly remember relegation to league two and the last game of the season v Bradford at PP. Not for the game, but for an action from a Bradford fan. The memory becomes more poignant now as, at the final whistle and walking past the celebrating Bradford fans with a consoling arm around my son, one lone Bradford fan made eye contact with me and gestured and mouthed that we'd come back up. He genuinely looked disappointed for us and it was clearly a gesture of empathy as they had suffered some similar lean times. Well, we did eventually, but not as that fan or I had thought. We've had a soul-searching journey since then and there's some irony that we pass Bradford due to their relegation. Would like to have had the opportunity to return the gesture, but sincerely hope they don't have to tread in our footsteps and their ride is a little easier. Moments like that, restore your faith in the football fans fraternity.[/quote]

Over achieved versus exceeded expectation.... Not sure I understand the difference. Please explain in one sentence.[/quote]

"Right said Fred, let's set Phil a challenge, otherwise we'll be getting nowhere"...hi Fred, Phil in peace, over-achieved is a holistic, meritous, assumption of fact after the event, whose parameters are at best difficult, if not impossible, to quantify and can not stand alone without previous proclamation of measurement of the status of any ultimate outcome, whereas exceeded expectation in the context of this, and previous discussion threads, has an individualistic embryonic status and has a baseline measurement or an equatorialesque line to judge any ultimate outcome and to classify said outcome within any preconceived criteria of progress or regression, but then again, I could be talking through the far end of my digestive tract and just be seeking acclaim for the longest sentence in TT forum history and to fit in with the numerical structured sequence of words that you proclaimed because, as you so rightly allude to, it doesn't matter one iota, but gives an opportunity to tax the rapidly diminishing grey matter and aid in the ever increasing need to procrastinate in our high octane, unempathetic and unforgiving lives....it's all good, well maybe my Bradford anecdote missed the good ship lollypop; enjoy the weekend (Sm128)![

Is this an excerpt from a James Joyce novel? Lol[/quote]

Lol in return! Particularly apt with my penchant for making up my own words or being "creative" with existing words!
"Life's too short to read a bad book"; damn you educated types!
Here's to hoping we overachieve this coming season "Mickey Mellon is going for three in a row"!

Edit: And please feel free to add "and talking absolute bollo#" to the end of my second sentence!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 14/06/2019 23:29 by Phil65.

MoanerLesser
RealityBitesHasLeftForum
15 June, 2019 11:51
Muchos deletos

Lol in return! Particularly apt with my penchant for making up my own words or being "creative" with existing words!
"Life's too short to read a bad book"; damn you educated types!
Here's to hoping we overachieve this coming season "Mickey Mellon is going for three in a row"!

Edit: And please feel free to add "and talking absolute bollo#" to the end of my second sentence![/quote]


Row, row, row the submarine, gently up the league...

Extract from a lost jk Jerome epic , three in a row

Tom Bombadil
Tom Bombadil
15 June, 2019 11:55
I'm not really into this overachieved debate. The league tables rarely lie and the play off outcome falls in the same bracket. The challenge is living with the achievement.

MoanerLesser
RealityBitesHasLeftForum
15 June, 2019 12:09
Quote:
Tom Bombadil
I'm not really into this overachieved debate. The league tables rarely lie and the play off outcome falls in the same bracket. The challenge is living with the achievement.

True, Tranmere came 6th in the 46 games.

ADD
ADD
15 June, 2019 12:25
We clearly achieved what we achieved so that is a moot point. We dropped points (Notts County etc.) we shouldn't have but got lucky sometimes as well. The fact we as 6th went up when we were effectively 7 points off an automatic place is the joy of the play offs! The challenge now as pointed out above is to ensure a successful consolidation. Realistically with Nors gone the chances of us going up again with so many clubs able to outspend us is very low IMO so what we need to target therefore is mid table respectability which will ensure crowds remain good and ideally a money spinning run in the FA Cup to boost the clubs finances.
All that said a multi- million investment from China would be nice so we can spend big in the January transfer window and make a late surge into the promotion slots!


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