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Forwards
Discussion started by DevonExile (IP Logged), 13 September, 2016 09:06
DevonExile
DevonExile
13 September, 2016 09:06
To my mind Norwood and Cook are good forwards poorly served. it is a a mark of Norwoods effort that he scored so many last year. Half may have been from pens but many of those were won because of his willingness to run at defenders.
But then i also think that Mangan,Stockton and Margetts were all better than there goals tally suggested. It is interesting to see that Stockton has already scored more goals this seaon than he did for us last year,or that Margets was effctive enough to attract a bid from a league side.

All this suggests to me that a combination of tactics and a lack of creativity makes it hard to be a forward at Tranmere.

Ridehaigh and Vaughan are at their best coming forward but their final ball is often poor and so their getting forward does not offset there poor defensive qualities. Mekki likewise is a pleasing tryer but can too often end up beating the same man twice and then elivering a poor cross.

I wish our new loan signing well but I very much doubt that he will thrive with the kind of service he is likely to get. It was wrong to revert the decision to release both full backs. We have adequate forwards and stephenson may do a job down the left.Two defensive FB and a good right winger would improve the side IF we then play to our strengths and use players in their best position

martyd12
martyd12
13 September, 2016 10:57
absolutely agree!!

MESSAGES->author
TranmereFan
13 September, 2016 11:14
Quote:
DevonExile
To my mind Norwood and Cook are good forwards poorly served. it is a a mark of Norwoods effort that he scored so many last year. Half may have been from pens but many of those were won because of his willingness to run at defenders.
But then i also think that Mangan,Stockton and Margetts were all better than there goals tally suggested. It is interesting to see that Stockton has already scored more goals this seaon than he did for us last year,or that Margets was effctive enough to attract a bid from a league side.

All this suggests to me that a combination of tactics and a lack of creativity makes it hard to be a forward at Tranmere.



Ridehaigh and Vaughan are at their best coming forward but their final ball is often poor and so their getting forward does not offset there poor defensive qualities. Mekki likewise is a pleasing tryer but can too often end up beating the same man twice and then elivering a poor cross.

I wish our new loan signing well but I very much doubt that he will thrive with the kind of service he is likely to get. It was wrong to revert the decision to release both full backs. We have adequate forwards and stephenson may do a job down the left.Two defensive FB and a good right winger would improve the side IF we then play to our strengths and use players in their best position

I agree service could be a lot better. But on the Stockton front he's NEVER been a goal scorer in a Tranmere shirt whoever we've had in midfield through the years.

MESSAGES->author
Matt34
13 September, 2016 17:00
He was briefly top scorer 2 years ago after 2 against Morecambe and another in the first 4 games, but injury crimped any possible form and stopped Tranmere having a decent chance of clinging on top a top 10 start, especially as I think Hill set up both those goals at Morecambe and then his defensive capabilities were limited by a large layoff.



Then I ate his Liver.......... with some baked beans and a can of coke.

RicciTRFC
RicciTRFC
14 September, 2016 10:18
100% agree. The service to the forwards is poor, mainly because Harris, Jennings and Maynard all aren't very good on the ball.

Higgosboots
Higgosboots
14 September, 2016 22:53
And no body is dynamic enough to take the game by the scruff of the kneck in midfield and make things happen. Not only is Nors our best forward, he's the best midfielder and at times the best defender. I'd love to know what the GPS stats are they all wear on distance covered, speed covered at and what the hell Brabin does with the stats.

trfc92
trfc92
15 September, 2016 07:54
Believe it or not one of my friends who son plays for the youth at Tranmere was telling me at the game last week that S. Jennings is the one who always covers the most followed by Vaughan and then Nors! Says the stats are always up at the training ground so brabin must be a believer in running the stats.

Higgosboots
Higgosboots
15 September, 2016 09:24
Quote:
trfc92
Believe it or not one of my friends who son plays for the youth at Tranmere was telling me at the game last week that S. Jennings is the one who always covers the most followed by Vaughan and then Nors! Says the stats are always up at the training ground so brabin must be a believer in running the stats.

So the forward is 3rd is distance covered, massivley worrying, your forward should be last in that stat. I would expect all midfielders to be covering the most ground followed by the wing backs, says a lot for why we lack penetration and service delivery and suggests Nors has to drop deep regularly in search of the ball.

MESSAGES->author
hong kong rover
15 September, 2016 13:40
with regards to forwards and goals, or lack of them, do u think we need someone on the coaching staff that is a bit more attack minded. a lot of fans are saying that chances are being created but the lack of goals is a worry. if u look at the management/coaching staff then gary brabin in his playing days was a defensive midfielder, shaun garnett was a defender, paul carden was a midfielder. how about an addition to the coaching staff ? an attack minded coach that was a fairly prolific striker back in his playing days ? would this help ?or am I talking and suggesting a load of nonsense?

MESSAGES->author
hong kong rover
15 September, 2016 14:13
defensively we will be pretty sound under mr brabin, we have the best defensive record in the national league at the moment, only conceded 7 goals in our 10 games so far and 3 of those goals came in just the one game, that being at aldershot. last season we had the 2nd best away record in the national league and hoping this will continue this season too. I for one don't mind 1-0 scrappy away wins but of course there will be some away draws and hopefully not too many away losses. but if it is going to be lack of goals in home games that could cost us then why not an ex striker coming on board to the coaching set up?

MESSAGES->author
2 the moon
15 September, 2016 15:30
Quote:
hong kong rover
with regards to forwards and goals, or lack of them, do u think we need someone on the coaching staff that is a bit more attack minded. a lot of fans are saying that chances are being created but the lack of goals is a worry. if u look at the management/coaching staff then gary brabin in his playing days was a defensive midfielder, shaun garnett was a defender, paul carden was a midfielder. how about an addition to the coaching staff ? an attack minded coach that was a fairly prolific striker back in his playing days ? would this help ?or am I talking and suggesting a load of nonsense?
This is just me HKR but I would say that from what I've seen in the home games to much is being made of the old chesnut that we are creating chances. I mean what is a chance, there are clear cut chances, missed chances, chances when somebody should of been where a ball landed etc etc personally I just don't see it everyone has chances. Regarding your idea of an addition to the coaching staff for sure somebody working with the team regarding the attacking side couldn't do any harm. It would obviously have to fit in with the game plan.

aktrfc
aktrfc
15 September, 2016 16:51
Quote:
2 the moon
Quote:
hong kong rover
with regards to forwards and goals, or lack of them, do u think we need someone on the coaching staff that is a bit more attack minded. a lot of fans are saying that chances are being created but the lack of goals is a worry. if u look at the management/coaching staff then gary brabin in his playing days was a defensive midfielder, shaun garnett was a defender, paul carden was a midfielder. how about an addition to the coaching staff ? an attack minded coach that was a fairly prolific striker back in his playing days ? would this help ?or am I talking and suggesting a load of nonsense?
This is just me HKR but I would say that from what I've seen in the home games to much is being made of the old chesnut that we are creating chances. I mean what is a chance, there are clear cut chances, missed chances, chances when somebody should of been where a ball landed etc etc personally I just don't see it everyone has chances. Regarding your idea of an addition to the coaching staff for sure somebody working with the team regarding the attacking side couldn't do any harm. It would obviously have to fit in with the game plan.

Bring back the chief

MESSAGES->author
Matt34
15 September, 2016 19:57
I see no serious reasons why an attack minded person on the coaching staff wouldn't work, unless his attitude was poor, or they clashed with the manager, because there was too much hands-on from management rather than hands off.

Even a female coach might be good, because if men can coach women and do, women could coach men also and maybe in some clubs that happens.

Colin Clarke currently manages Carolina Railhawks, so if they ever parted company with him, perhaps he could be brought in.

He has history at the club and also being Northern Irish maybe Jeff Hughes could work his magic on him and he has chubbed up since retirement, so Brabin might appreciate another fellow chubby to keep him company.

Dare I mention the Fowler as an attacking coach?

Maybe with Brabin's connections Duncan Ferguson could be lured, or at least paid on a consultancy basis to come in once a week and impart some wisdom.



Then I ate his Liver.......... with some baked beans and a can of coke.

Higgosboots
Higgosboots
15 September, 2016 20:48
Quote:
Matt34
I see no serious reasons why an attack minded person on the coaching staff wouldn't work, unless his attitude was poor, or they clashed with the manager, because there was too much hands-on from management rather than hands off.
Even a female coach might be good, because if men can coach women and do, women could coach men also and maybe in some clubs that happens.

Colin Clarke currently manages Carolina Railhawks, so if they ever parted company with him, perhaps he could be brought in.

He has history at the club and also being Northern Irish maybe Jeff Hughes could work his magic on him and he has chubbed up since retirement, so Brabin might appreciate another fellow chubby to keep him company.

Dare I mention the Fowler as an attacking coach?

Maybe with Brabin's connections Duncan Ferguson could be lured, or at least paid on a consultancy basis to come in once a week and impart some wisdom.

You always make sound points Matt, however I think on the Fergusson one he's a bit out of our league. The coaches plan would have to fit the master plan though input could be a simple as physccilogical elements as opposed technical.

DevonExile
DevonExile
16 September, 2016 11:55
With modern football is it too simplistic to talk about the creation of chances as a forwards issue.Attacks are built from all over the pitch. It does not mean that you necessarily have full backs that attack down the flanks but it does mean that passing in all positions is purposeful. Our build up is often laboured with a tendency to long balls that are never better than 50/50 in terms of retaining position. We have forwards who have shown that they can score but I am not convinced that the deeper issues have been addressed

Aldo40
Aldo40
16 September, 2016 16:19
Football is a funny business , when things are going well its so simple, but when it's not it can get complicated trying to find a solution.As a former player Clive Evans once told me scoring a goal is the hardest thing in football.Whilst that may be true you don't always have to score from 35 yards and my concern is how many tap ins do we get? Not many! I was delighted to see our well worked opening goal of the season away at Bromley,involving a neat triangle between Cook,C Jennings & Norwood.Since then we seem to have forgotten how effective this type of move was and the forwards are too often isolated and don't work together.We haven't really used wide men much,as to me one of the most effective balls is getting to the byline and pulling back for the oncoming forward.Defenders hate being turned to face their own goal.A lot of the crosses have been poor and we don't seem to have a plan to go near and far post.Corners who is waiting on the edge of the box for the loose ball? I said it gets complicated but its also very frustrating.

Kenny_Crons
Kenny_Crons
16 September, 2016 16:56
Spot on, Aldo.

Work on partnerships between players and a bit of width and we will be in business.

MESSAGES->author
Doogie'sGhost
16 September, 2016 17:15
The problem is who provides the width? I'll put my hand up and admit I don't really rate Mekki. He doesn't deliver enough in terms of quality crosses and always seem to play with this head down. I don't think he makes us better. Kirby's a better crosser from wide, but isn't as good at beating a man. Both are good options off the bench but neither make the starting 11 for me.

aktrfc
aktrfc
16 September, 2016 18:35
Quote:
Doogie'sGhost
The problem is who provides the width? I'll put my hand up and admit I don't really rate Mekki. He doesn't deliver enough in terms of quality crosses and always seem to play with this head down. I don't think he makes us better. Kirby's a better crosser from wide, but isn't as good at beating a man. Both are good options off the bench but neither make the starting 11 for me.

Agreed in rating Mekki, but don't rate. Kirkby also. But if we play a 442 with any of, Mekki, Stephenson
Or Kirkby on the wings and nors n Cooke centre for one game and it goes wrong, well that will shut us up. But for the love of god throw the die and have a go. Please G?


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