Latest news:
This is the board where Arsenal fans can discuss all things Arsenal, and any other football issues that they feel are of interest to Gunners. Opposition fans are welcome, but remember this board is from an Arsenal point of view. Off Topic Discussion should take place on the Off Topic Forum. Off Topic discussion will be removed. Any topic that is football related, within reason, is not off topic.


Who's to blame?
Discussion started by Shane , 28 December, 2018 00:14
Who's to blame?
Shane 28 December, 2018 00:14
Obviously the quality of the Arsenal squad is being called into question at the moment, but whose fault is it? Does the blame lie with Arsene Wenger for leaving a modest, unbalanced squad, or our recruitment people for not improving it over a three-month period?

Obviously that isn't enough time to build a title-winning squad, but surely it's enough time to lay the foundations for improvement. Have they?

Did we have to release Cazorla, who has been fit all season? Did we badly need a new goalkeeper and did we need to spend so much money on signing one? Nothing I've seen from Leno indicates he's much better than Ospina, never mind Cech who I think we could've got one mroe season out of. Why did we sign cover for Bellerin instead of someone to bench him, considering that Bellerin himself isn't good enough? This literally might be his last-ever season as a footballer. He was such a poor, short-sighted signing.

I'm undecided on Sokratis. He's sort of like Koscielny in the sense that he's either magnificent or a complete bombscare of a centre-back. And although Guendouzi is a prospect, he's raw, a bit mental and probably shouldn't be as close to the first XI as he presently is.

Torreira is the only unqualified success of the lot if we're honest. The rest, not including Lichtsteiner, might prove to be great signings, but at the moment 80% of our summer additions have either made no difference at all, or their impact is slight at best.

The truth is that we wouldn't be talking about the quality of the squad that Wenger left behind had the likes of Sanlehhi and Mislintat - both of whom have been at Arsenal for over a year by the way, so it's not as if they arrived in June like Emery and had very little time to prepare for the window - recruited better.

Wenger could've left a better, more balanced squad, but we can't deflect attention away from what seems to be a disappointing summer transfer window and one that Sanlehhi, Mislintat - and potentially Emery, because it's uncertain how much of a say he has in transfers - presided over.

Re: Who's to blame?
CazOnARola 28 December, 2018 03:37
The only debacle is CBs. I don't know how you can go into a session with two CBs. And 2 youth players. Leno is perfect for the style of play that the manager wanted. He's definitely more confident that ospina. Lichtensteiner has been a @#$%& signing.

But overall that have done well. I doubt anyone has ever had a transfer window where they sign 5 players and all of them go on to become brilliant signings.

Torreira is easily a 50mn+ player and we will probably cash in on him in Aug 2020.
Both sokratis and guendouzi have been good. But they need to sign a few defenders. I'll judge them at the end of July 2019 when they would have 3 transfer windows.

We also need sign a few youth players in the defensive areas

Re: Who's to blame?
Bergmars 28 December, 2018 11:32
Quote:
Shane
Obviously the quality of the Arsenal squad is being called into question at the moment, but whose fault is it? Does the blame lie with Arsene Wenger for leaving a modest, unbalanced squad, or our recruitment people for not improving it over a three-month period?
Obviously that isn't enough time to build a title-winning squad, but surely it's enough time to lay the foundations for improvement. Have they?

Did we have to release Cazorla, who has been fit all season? Did we badly need a new goalkeeper and did we need to spend so much money on signing one? Nothing I've seen from Leno indicates he's much better than Ospina, never mind Cech who I think we could've got one mroe season out of. Why did we sign cover for Bellerin instead of someone to bench him, considering that Bellerin himself isn't good enough? This literally might be his last-ever season as a footballer. He was such a poor, short-sighted signing.

I'm undecided on Sokratis. He's sort of like Koscielny in the sense that he's either magnificent or a complete bombscare of a centre-back. And although Guendouzi is a prospect, he's raw, a bit mental and probably shouldn't be as close to the first XI as he presently is.

Torreira is the only unqualified success of the lot if we're honest. The rest, not including Lichtsteiner, might prove to be great signings, but at the moment 80% of our summer additions have either made no difference at all, or their impact is slight at best.

The truth is that we wouldn't be talking about the quality of the squad that Wenger left behind had the likes of Sanlehhi and Mislintat - both of whom have been at Arsenal for over a year by the way, so it's not as if they arrived in June like Emery and had very little time to prepare for the window - recruited better.

Wenger could've left a better, more balanced squad, but we can't deflect attention away from what seems to be a disappointing summer transfer window and one that Sanlehhi, Mislintat - and potentially Emery, because it's uncertain how much of a say he has in transfers - presided over.
Spot on assesment



Under new managment

Re: Who's to blame?
Padre Pio 28 December, 2018 12:34
I agree with most of what is said here. Well balanced.
I believe that Emery was not allowed any more expenditure after the buys that were made. The club was reluctant to spend after the Auba transfer, they considered the budget closed after the three main buys



- until Wenger moves on, they'll always be the also-rans in the major competitions. A club in elite purgatory. Always good enough to make it to the big race, never fast or smart enough to push over the finish line in first place. That's all about the manager. Until he changes, Arsenal fans will continue to celebrate glorious failure.

Re: Who's to blame?
SandyB 28 December, 2018 12:48
Shut d fu.ck up shano. Nothing to blame the team n the new manager is just doing fine.

Re: Who's to blame?
MattySadler 28 December, 2018 15:22
Hard to blame just one party. I don't think we were left in as good a position by Wenger as I thought we would, but we didn't do enough over the summer. I mean, I wasn't expecting miracles in our first post-Wenger transfer window, but I expected more.

We've got a number of players who are old, a number of whom are not good enough, and a number who are injury prone. To that existing group we've added Leno who, as you said, doesn't look like anything special. We've added Lichtsteiner, who meets the first two of the above categories. We've added Sokratis, who I actually think is playing better after a shaky start, but is in his 30s. We've added Guendouzi, who is raw, and we've added Torreira, who is brilliant.

Even though in the recent previous transfer windows we've lost the likes of Oxlade-Chamberlain, Alexis and Walcott, we haven't add any fast wide players, which is proving an issue. Our alternatives are Iwobi and Mkhitaryan, who aren't up to standard.

We've got problems between Emery and Ozil/ Ramsey, the first of which is particularly infuriating.

You also have to factor in injuries. At various points this season we've been without Koscielny, Mustafi, Holding, Mavropanos, Monreal, Kolasinac, Maitland-Niles, Ozil and Welbeck.

I'll be interested to see what we do in January, although I'm not expecting much. A young defender and a younger winger at most, if that.

Another small point: I said previously that I never thought we'd see the best of Gabriel under Wenger, largely due to the airy fairy coaching and the style of play. We could've kept him, or we could've loaned him out, but instead we sold him without signing a replacement (criminal). He is now doing well in Spain, and I think he'd suit Emery down to the ground.

Re: Who's to blame?
Shane 28 December, 2018 17:56
Quote:
CazOnARola
I doubt anyone has ever had a transfer window where they sign 5 players and all of them go on to become brilliant signings.

Aye it is a rare thing. Wenger has certainly never had a transfer window where every signing has been a brilliant one. Considering we signed Xhaka, Mustafi and Perez in the one window, you could even say that Wenger presided over transfer windows in which every signing was a shite one. But we didn't let him away with it. We questioned and criticised his decisions, rightly holding him accountable and we don't appear to be as scrutinising with the new regime.

As I said before, there would've been murder if Wenger had sought to improve the god-awful defence of last season by only signing a 35-year-old right-back and Sokratis, and spent a third of his budget on a player we didn't really need, like Leno in my opinion. Until yesterday we were level on points with fourth-placed Chelsea. That's not because of Leno or the defence (which is actually worse now than it was after 19 games last season, going by goals conceded). It's because we score quite a lot of goals, but imagine how much better Arsenal would be this season if a lot more emphasis went on improving our back four during the summer. We'd hardly be top of the Premier League, but we absolutely would not be fifth.

Re: Who's to blame?
Shane 28 December, 2018 17:58
Quote:
MattySadler
Even though in the recent previous transfer windows we've lost the likes of Oxlade-Chamberlain, Alexis and Walcott, we haven't add any fast wide players, which is proving an issue. Our alternatives are Iwobi and Mkhitaryan, who aren't up to standard

That's a good point. We have very little pace and quality out wide, but I'd wait until the summer to address it. I think we can get top four without signing any attacking player next month.

Two defenders in January could potentially make more of a difference to our season than one defender and one winger.

Re: Who's to blame?
goonerred 28 December, 2018 18:06
We definitely need a couple of solid defenders, they're dropping like flies at the moment. I agree about attack being OK, they are just not being backed up by solid pay behind them.

Re: Who's to blame?
SuperRob 28 December, 2018 23:39
In hindsight we should have strengthened our defence more but at the time I was fairly happy with the summer transfer business. I wasn't expecting anything more than what we got. For a europa league club who were on a downward trend, I felt we hadn't done too badly.

Hopefully the downward trend has been reversed now and next season we will be able to challenge for the top 4 again.

Re: Who's to blame?
SandyB 29 December, 2018 03:35
Quote:
SuperRob
In hindsight we should have strengthened our defence more but at the time I was fairly happy with the summer transfer business. I wasn't expecting anything more than what we got. For a europa league club who were on a downward trend, I felt we hadn't done too badly.
Hopefully the downward trend has been reversed now and next season we will be able to challenge for the top 4 again.
I strongly feel we are still in top 4 race n possibilities of playing in CL next season is very high.
Shano go n support Milan dude!

Re: Who's to blame?
Bergmars 29 December, 2018 09:00
Quote:
SandyB
Quote:
SuperRob
In hindsight we should have strengthened our defence more but at the time I was fairly happy with the summer transfer business. I wasn't expecting anything more than what we got. For a europa league club who were on a downward trend, I felt we hadn't done too badly.
Hopefully the downward trend has been reversed now and next season we will be able to challenge for the top 4 again.
I strongly feel we are still in top 4 race n possibilities of playing in CL next season is very high.
Shano go n support Milan dude!
Ridiculous post top four ? We could struggle to finish sixth .



Under new managment

Re: Who's to blame?
SandyB 29 December, 2018 12:39
Quote:
Bergmars
Quote:
SandyB
Quote:
SuperRob
In hindsight we should have strengthened our defence more but at the time I was fairly happy with the summer transfer business. I wasn't expecting anything more than what we got. For a europa league club who were on a downward trend, I felt we hadn't done too badly.
Hopefully the downward trend has been reversed now and next season we will be able to challenge for the top 4 again.
I strongly feel we are still in top 4 race n possibilities of playing in CL next season is very high.
Shano go n support Milan dude!
Ridiculous post top four ? We could struggle to finish sixth .
Chelsea 4th with 40 points city at 44 we are on 38. Still half of the season left to play. Also there is Europa route. Did I miss something?

Re: Who's to blame?
CazOnARola 29 December, 2018 15:19
Quote:
Shane
Quote:
CazOnARola
I doubt anyone has ever had a transfer window where they sign 5 players and all of them go on to become brilliant signings.

Aye it is a rare thing. Wenger has certainly never had a transfer window where every signing has been a brilliant one. Considering we signed Xhaka, Mustafi and Perez in the one window, you could even say that Wenger presided over transfer windows in which every signing was a shite one. But we didn't let him away with it. We questioned and criticised his decisions, rightly holding him accountable and we don't appear to be as scrutinising with the new regime.

As I said before, there would've been murder if Wenger had sought to improve the god-awful defence of last season by only signing a 35-year-old right-back and Sokratis, and spent a third of his budget on a player we didn't really need, like Leno in my opinion. Until yesterday we were level on points with fourth-placed Chelsea. That's not because of Leno or the defence (which is actually worse now than it was after 19 games last season, going by goals conceded). It's because we score quite a lot of goals, but imagine how much better Arsenal would be this season if a lot more emphasis went on improving our back four during the summer. We'd hardly be top of the Premier League, but we absolutely would not be fifth.
Shane thats because he had multiple years to address the defensive midfielder issues. We couldnt find one proper DM after gilberto for more than a decade. At one point in time i would have been happy with anita from newcastle, we were thsat bad at winning the ball back.

Like i said, i will judge them after 3 windows.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 29/12/2018 16:54 by CazOnARola.

Re: Who's to blame?
Bergmars 29 December, 2018 16:52
Yes Sandy you've missed the fact we are pretty crap



Under new managment

Re: Who's to blame?
Merlion96 30 December, 2018 00:02
Dumbfcuk of a manager.
We appointed another Manu "David Moyes" after Arsene Wenger.



'The more things change, the more they remain the same' Alphonse Karr.

Re: Who's to blame?
CazOnARola 30 December, 2018 03:14
Quote:
Merlion96
Dumbfcuk of a manager.
We appointed another Manu "David Moyes" after Arsene Wenger.
Its a personnel problem. We went ultra defensive with our line up which shows that energy knows the pbm but he can't replace players over night.

At the moment mustafi and kos are the same.

The one thing that hasn't changed is "will be in full training by dec" where is mavropanos?

The impact injuries are understood but we kept getting soft tissue injuries post wenger era as well.

Re: Who's to blame?
mapleleafgooner 30 December, 2018 13:49
Quote:
Merlion96
Dumbfcuk of a manager.
We appointed another Manu "David Moyes" after Arsene Wenger.

Judge him after 2 seasons. Too early to tell. Moyes had no winning record before ManUre. Emery comes with a significant better record and needs time to fix the team he inherited from Wenger.

Re: Who's to blame?
goonerred 30 December, 2018 15:06
Can't judge Emery too harshly yet, but he needs to do something to sort out our calamitous defence, some of the goals against us are a complete joke from our defence, not good enough if we even want Top 4, never mind challenge for the title. United are creeping up behind us now, so we could end up in 6th. Lot of points to be won yet, and it can all change quickly.

Re: Who's to blame?
mapleleafgooner 30 December, 2018 17:08
The loss was expected (at least to me). The team can recover. We have been thru worst (remember 8-2?). A couple of decent signings in January and we will be right back fighting for top 4. It took Klopp almost 4 years and lots of transfers to turn Liverpool around. We cannot expect Emery to do it in one or even two seasons. Emery's task is made harder with an owner who is not exactly ambitious.

Re: Who's to blame?
SA-Gunner 30 December, 2018 18:34
I think in first place it is Wenger's fault. His transfer dealing the last seasons were atrocious. And defense has been an art that has been lost in this team for at least a decade. Back in its day we had so much offensive power that it more or less made ug ignore the defensive issues (despite these being the problem that blocked us from winning any trophy). Now that we don't have the same creativity the defense is much more exposed.

Gazidis and the owner are also responsible of course.

Emery's work isn't easy at all. I think he has committed some mistakes as of late, but it's still early. Let's see if he can do anything this January.

Re: Who's to blame?
SandyB 30 December, 2018 19:46
Quote:
Bergmars
Yes Sandy you've missed the fact we are pretty crap
We are not in Liverpool’s standard yet Bargmars, Klopp took 3 seasons to build this team n this is defining season for him. Emery needs time, Wenger has left the club in such miserable situation that there is no easy comeback from it.

Re: Who's to blame?
AJ The Gunner 02 January, 2019 09:44
We need to sort out our defense ASAP. conceding 30 goals in just 20 games this season is our worst so far. The goals we have conceded were mainly errors that could have been avoided. Some of the defensive positioning has been total disarray.

Judging Emery's star studded PSG team throwing away a 4 goal advantage in the CL has be worried as to whether Emery has the ability to sort out our defensive woes.



Wenger Is Gone Now So Can We Be Allowed To Breathe Now???

Re: Who's to blame?
MattySadler 02 January, 2019 10:21
Pinched this from Twitter -

We'll have received less than £15 million + Mkhitaryan for;

Gnabry, Szczesny, Alexis, Wilshere, Ramsey and Welbeck.

We should be receiving at least 10 times that group considering their ages, ability and form at the time.

We're a horribly ran club.

Re: Who's to blame?
Gunnersingh1 02 January, 2019 10:32
Wenger is to blame there's no doubt about it; Anyone who think it's wise to outlay 100 odd million on Xhaka and Mustafi is a clown!

We are now suffering and have to watch teams ahea of us splash the cash on top players while we scape the barrel!

Thanks Wenger...

Re: Who's to blame?
Jack_is_the_truth 02 January, 2019 12:05
Quote:
Shane
Obviously the quality of the Arsenal squad is being called into question at the moment, but whose fault is it? Does the blame lie with Arsene Wenger for leaving a modest, unbalanced squad, or our recruitment people for not improving it over a three-month period?
Obviously that isn't enough time to build a title-winning squad, but surely it's enough time to lay the foundations for improvement. Have they?

Did we have to release Cazorla, who has been fit all season? Did we badly need a new goalkeeper and did we need to spend so much money on signing one? Nothing I've seen from Leno indicates he's much better than Ospina, never mind Cech who I think we could've got one mroe season out of. Why did we sign cover for Bellerin instead of someone to bench him, considering that Bellerin himself isn't good enough? This literally might be his last-ever season as a footballer. He was such a poor, short-sighted signing.

I'm undecided on Sokratis. He's sort of like Koscielny in the sense that he's either magnificent or a complete bombscare of a centre-back. And although Guendouzi is a prospect, he's raw, a bit mental and probably shouldn't be as close to the first XI as he presently is.

Torreira is the only unqualified success of the lot if we're honest. The rest, not including Lichtsteiner, might prove to be great signings, but at the moment 80% of our summer additions have either made no difference at all, or their impact is slight at best.

The truth is that we wouldn't be talking about the quality of the squad that Wenger left behind had the likes of Sanlehhi and Mislintat - both of whom have been at Arsenal for over a year by the way, so it's not as if they arrived in June like Emery and had very little time to prepare for the window - recruited better.

Wenger could've left a better, more balanced squad, but we can't deflect attention away from what seems to be a disappointing summer transfer window and one that Sanlehhi, Mislintat - and potentially Emery, because it's uncertain how much of a say he has in transfers - presided over.

Brilliant post

I think it’s Emerys fault, the board said he won the interview process with the promise of how he wants to improve the players we currently have, what they can do better etc, without having seen them in person. I felt that was arrogant and disrespectful to Wenger

But it got him the job, and what did he do, get rid of Wilshere, remove Ramsey’s contract offer, relegate Martinez even further, send our only winger out on loan.
He doesn’t play well with big names, you can already see he is pi.ssing Özil and lacazette right off

His plan b isn’t a plan b at all it a plan a....don’t play your strongest line up and have impact bench players. Instead of starting well with your best squad

The resason the squad looks weak is because of its lack of consistency of selection and subsequent effect of confidence in players that are dropped

And mostly getting rid of Wilshere ....it’s emerys fault



http://giant.gfycat.com/DistantVastGuanaco.gif http://164.177.157.12/img/teams/13.png
The future is now!!!!!!!

Re: Who's to blame?
Shane 02 January, 2019 13:31
Quote:
Gunnersingh1
Wenger is to blame there's no doubt about it; Anyone who think it's wise to outlay 100 odd million on Xhaka and Mustafi is a clown!
We are now suffering and have to watch teams ahea of us splash the cash on top players while we scape the barrel!

Thanks Wenger...

Only five clubs on the planet made more money than Arsenal last year.

If only £70 million was made available for transfers, it was a conscious decision by the higher-ups. It wasn't a consequence of Wenger over-spending on Xhaka and Mustafi I don't think.

Re: Who's to blame?
hippogunner 03 January, 2019 09:52
Jack is the truth, you need to get over Wilshire. Inconsistent and injury prone, a real disappointment and possibly one of the most overrated players we've had in recent years.

@Shane, I'm not sure what your expectations are regarding this football club. We now hear that Arsenal are paupers or more likely skinflints. We have this strange mentality of some small club being generated by Kronke and co., despite being one of the richest clubs in the world.

We have signed a manager that I believe has been told he'll get tuppence to spend on top of the meagre sales generated by any of the mediocre players we can sell. I think they thought he was a manager who can turn sh"t into silver but so far the sh"t has stubbornly remained what it always was.

I've wondered for some years now what Arsenal is. Is it a football club or a business masquerading as a football club? In stark contrast to Liverpool who have always looked like they actually wanted to be a major sporting force we seem to focus on finance first. For 29 years they've not won the league but I suspect they will this year. They've had average managers and poor owners in that time but they fought for better. The fans helped eject the@#$%&owners, the poor managers were soon moved on.

We haven't won the league for 15 years. And during that time what did we do? Built a stadium and that's it. We made it a great excuse for our stasis. We made finishing fourth a holy grail. We elevated a worn-out manager to the status of deity with stupid phrases like Wenger knows best. Meanwhile big teams got on with chopping and changing managers and players in their bid to win the league. It didn't always work but it gave the impression those clubs had sporting ambition. What impression did we give to the outside world? I think we know the answer to that.

Emery has not made Wenger's duds any better so it's down to what he can rustle up from the transfer market with the odd stray million Kronke might deign to surrender. If Emery can't find any magic beans he'll be moved on and the search will go on for another cheapskate manager. That's how I see the future until that parasite Kronke is shifted. If I were a Pool fan I'd be hopeful that the fans would be instrumental in the downfall of such a leech but with Arsenal fans I wouldn't be so sure.

As for this season fourth or higher is not going to happen. I suspect we'll be overhauled by Manu now that Moaninho has been pushed out. Their squad is far superior to ours and looks like it's enjoying playing football again. Unless we get some pacy wingers and a proper defence in the summer we'll be repeating this season next season.

With the owner we have I predict a decade in the doldrums, some would say we've already had that but it might get a lot worse if a few other clubs get owners who actually equate success with trophies not financial statements.

Re: Who's to blame?
goonerred 03 January, 2019 09:59
Quote:
hippogunner
Jack is the truth, you need to get over Wilshire. Inconsistent and injury prone, a real disappointment and possibly one of the most overrated players we've had in recent years.
@Shane, I'm not sure what your expectations are regarding this football club. We now hear that Arsenal are paupers or more likely skinflints. We have this strange mentality of some small club being generated by Kronke and co., despite being one of the richest clubs in the world.

We have signed a manager that I believe has been told he'll get tuppence to spend on top of the meagre sales generated by any of the mediocre players we can sell. I think they thought he was a manager who can turn sh"t into silver but so far the sh"t has stubbornly remained what it always was.

I've wondered for some years now what Arsenal is. Is it a football club or a business masquerading as a football club? In stark contrast to Liverpool who have always looked like they actually wanted to be a major sporting force we seem to focus on finance first. For 29 years they've not won the league but I suspect they will this year. They've had average managers and poor owners in that time but they fought for better. The fans helped eject the@#$%&owners, the poor managers were soon moved on.

We haven't won the league for 15 years. And during that time what did we do? Built a stadium and that's it. We made it a great excuse for our stasis. We made finishing fourth a holy grail. We elevated a worn-out manager to the status of deity with stupid phrases like Wenger knows best. Meanwhile big teams got on with chopping and changing managers and players in their bid to win the league. It didn't always work but it gave the impression those clubs had sporting ambition. What impression did we give to the outside world? I think we know the answer to that.

Emery has not made Wenger's duds any better so it's down to what he can rustle up from the transfer market with the odd stray million Kronke might deign to surrender. If Emery can't find any magic beans he'll be moved on and the search will go on for another cheapskate manager. That's how I see the future until that parasite Kronke is shifted. If I were a Pool fan I'd be hopeful that the fans would be instrumental in the downfall of such a leech but with Arsenal fans I wouldn't be so sure.

As for this season fourth or higher is not going to happen. I suspect we'll be overhauled by Manu now that Moaninho has been pushed out. Their squad is far superior to ours and looks like it's enjoying playing football again. Unless we get some pacy wingers and a proper defence in the summer we'll be repeating this season next season.

With the owner we have I predict a decade in the doldrums, some would say we've already had that but it might get a lot worse if a few other clubs get owners who actually equate success with trophies not financial statements.

What a depressing post, sadly.it's spot on.Unless United revert to early season form, we will be at best 6th this season.

Re: Who's to blame?
CazOnARola 03 January, 2019 11:08
Quote:
hippogunner
Jack is the truth, you need to get over Wilshire. Inconsistent and injury prone, a real disappointment and possibly one of the most overrated players we've had in recent years.
@Shane, I'm not sure what your expectations are regarding this football club. We now hear that Arsenal are paupers or more likely skinflints. We have this strange mentality of some small club being generated by Kronke and co., despite being one of the richest clubs in the world.

We have signed a manager that I believe has been told he'll get tuppence to spend on top of the meagre sales generated by any of the mediocre players we can sell. I think they thought he was a manager who can turn sh"t into silver but so far the sh"t has stubbornly remained what it always was.

I've wondered for some years now what Arsenal is. Is it a football club or a business masquerading as a football club? In stark contrast to Liverpool who have always looked like they actually wanted to be a major sporting force we seem to focus on finance first. For 29 years they've not won the league but I suspect they will this year. They've had average managers and poor owners in that time but they fought for better. The fans helped eject the@#$%&owners, the poor managers were soon moved on.

We haven't won the league for 15 years. And during that time what did we do? Built a stadium and that's it. We made it a great excuse for our stasis. We made finishing fourth a holy grail. We elevated a worn-out manager to the status of deity with stupid phrases like Wenger knows best. Meanwhile big teams got on with chopping and changing managers and players in their bid to win the league. It didn't always work but it gave the impression those clubs had sporting ambition. What impression did we give to the outside world? I think we know the answer to that.

Emery has not made Wenger's duds any better so it's down to what he can rustle up from the transfer market with the odd stray million Kronke might deign to surrender. If Emery can't find any magic beans he'll be moved on and the search will go on for another cheapskate manager. That's how I see the future until that parasite Kronke is shifted. If I were a Pool fan I'd be hopeful that the fans would be instrumental in the downfall of such a leech but with Arsenal fans I wouldn't be so sure.

As for this season fourth or higher is not going to happen. I suspect we'll be overhauled by Manu now that Moaninho has been pushed out. Their squad is far superior to ours and looks like it's enjoying playing football again. Unless we get some pacy wingers and a proper defence in the summer we'll be repeating this season next season.

With the owner we have I predict a decade in the doldrums, some would say we've already had that but it might get a lot worse if a few other clubs get owners who actually equate success with trophies not financial statements.
The only hope is we buy young and make them special. That was always the plan even under wenger but our scouts failed us big time by recommending players with horrible football technique like gervinho among others.

Liverpool bought firminho, coutinho, sterling, sturridge (11mn i think), etc. Sold coutinho and sterling for a massive fee enough to get salah, van djik etc.

We have struggled big time in the transfer market, we are going to let go of ramaey for free.

So the onus is really on raul and mislintat and the scouting network. Cause like you said, owner is absolutely content with making profits and focused on American franchises.

Its a sad situation and we need scouting miracles one the ones at Liverpool and spurs to be competitive again

Re: Who's to blame?
Shane 03 January, 2019 13:09
Quote:
hippogunner
Jack is the truth, you need to get over Wilshire. Inconsistent and injury prone, a real disappointment and possibly one of the most overrated players we've had in recent years.
@Shane, I'm not sure what your expectations are regarding this football club. We now hear that Arsenal are paupers or more likely skinflints. We have this strange mentality of some small club being generated by Kronke and co., despite being one of the richest clubs in the world.

We have signed a manager that I believe has been told he'll get tuppence to spend on top of the meagre sales generated by any of the mediocre players we can sell. I think they thought he was a manager who can turn sh"t into silver but so far the sh"t has stubbornly remained what it always was.

I've wondered for some years now what Arsenal is. Is it a football club or a business masquerading as a football club? In stark contrast to Liverpool who have always looked like they actually wanted to be a major sporting force we seem to focus on finance first. For 29 years they've not won the league but I suspect they will this year. They've had average managers and poor owners in that time but they fought for better. The fans helped eject the@#$%&owners, the poor managers were soon moved on.

We haven't won the league for 15 years. And during that time what did we do? Built a stadium and that's it. We made it a great excuse for our stasis. We made finishing fourth a holy grail. We elevated a worn-out manager to the status of deity with stupid phrases like Wenger knows best. Meanwhile big teams got on with chopping and changing managers and players in their bid to win the league. It didn't always work but it gave the impression those clubs had sporting ambition. What impression did we give to the outside world? I think we know the answer to that.

Emery has not made Wenger's duds any better so it's down to what he can rustle up from the transfer market with the odd stray million Kronke might deign to surrender. If Emery can't find any magic beans he'll be moved on and the search will go on for another cheapskate manager. That's how I see the future until that parasite Kronke is shifted. If I were a Pool fan I'd be hopeful that the fans would be instrumental in the downfall of such a leech but with Arsenal fans I wouldn't be so sure.

As for this season fourth or higher is not going to happen. I suspect we'll be overhauled by Manu now that Moaninho has been pushed out. Their squad is far superior to ours and looks like it's enjoying playing football again. Unless we get some pacy wingers and a proper defence in the summer we'll be repeating this season next season.

With the owner we have I predict a decade in the doldrums, some would say we've already had that but it might get a lot worse if a few other clubs get owners who actually equate success with trophies not financial statements.

Problem here is mate I think you're absolving the new regime of any responsibility whatsoever, whilst also pinning our failure to win the Premier League on Wenger. It doesn't add up in my opinion. If you're committing to the idea that Kroenke is the overriding handicap to Arsenal then you have to make those same allowances when Wenger was at the club.

That being said, I don't think Kroenke is a massive handicap, as far as team performance goes. I think Arsenal broke its transfer record twice in the space of six months last year and I don't think either deal would've gone ahead without him knowing about it. That's hardly unambitious, and neither is the £100 million that Wenger spent - and more or less wasted - in the summer of 2014 and 2016, but the money was still there.

In the later years, Wenger held Arsenal back a lot more than Kroenke in my view and that's why it's important to hold Emery, Mislintat and Sanllehi accountable if they fail, not Kroenke. Kroenke didn't waste £50 million of the £70 million that was spent last summer mate. Arsenal, who are three points behind Chelsea, would comfortably be a top-four team at this moment in time had the money been spent better.

Re: Who's to blame?
CazOnARola 03 January, 2019 15:13
In hindsight for the present investment in leno < investment in a centre back. But I still like leno. I think his distribution is better than most of the other names touted so over a period of 3 sessions, he is an imp signing, but yes my the need this season.

I have seen some two footed players like cazorla but never a GK before. I haven't seen someone kick long with both feet under pressure so i think he is like having another deep lying distributer

Re: Who's to blame?
hippogunner 03 January, 2019 15:59
Quote:
Shane
Quote:
hippogunner
Jack is the truth, you need to get over Wilshire. Inconsistent and injury prone, a real disappointment and possibly one of the most overrated players we've had in recent years.
@Shane, I'm not sure what your expectations are regarding this football club. We now hear that Arsenal are paupers or more likely skinflints. We have this strange mentality of some small club being generated by Kronke and co., despite being one of the richest clubs in the world.

We have signed a manager that I believe has been told he'll get tuppence to spend on top of the meagre sales generated by any of the mediocre players we can sell. I think they thought he was a manager who can turn sh"t into silver but so far the sh"t has stubbornly remained what it always was.

I've wondered for some years now what Arsenal is. Is it a football club or a business masquerading as a football club? In stark contrast to Liverpool who have always looked like they actually wanted to be a major sporting force we seem to focus on finance first. For 29 years they've not won the league but I suspect they will this year. They've had average managers and poor owners in that time but they fought for better. The fans helped eject the@#$%&owners, the poor managers were soon moved on.

We haven't won the league for 15 years. And during that time what did we do? Built a stadium and that's it. We made it a great excuse for our stasis. We made finishing fourth a holy grail. We elevated a worn-out manager to the status of deity with stupid phrases like Wenger knows best. Meanwhile big teams got on with chopping and changing managers and players in their bid to win the league. It didn't always work but it gave the impression those clubs had sporting ambition. What impression did we give to the outside world? I think we know the answer to that.

Emery has not made Wenger's duds any better so it's down to what he can rustle up from the transfer market with the odd stray million Kronke might deign to surrender. If Emery can't find any magic beans he'll be moved on and the search will go on for another cheapskate manager. That's how I see the future until that parasite Kronke is shifted. If I were a Pool fan I'd be hopeful that the fans would be instrumental in the downfall of such a leech but with Arsenal fans I wouldn't be so sure.

As for this season fourth or higher is not going to happen. I suspect we'll be overhauled by Manu now that Moaninho has been pushed out. Their squad is far superior to ours and looks like it's enjoying playing football again. Unless we get some pacy wingers and a proper defence in the summer we'll be repeating this season next season.

With the owner we have I predict a decade in the doldrums, some would say we've already had that but it might get a lot worse if a few other clubs get owners who actually equate success with trophies not financial statements.

Problem here is mate I think you're absolving the new regime of any responsibility whatsoever, whilst also pinning our failure to win the Premier League on Wenger. It doesn't add up in my opinion. If you're committing to the idea that Kroenke is the overriding handicap to Arsenal then you have to make those same allowances when Wenger was at the club.

That being said, I don't think Kroenke is a massive handicap, as far as team performance goes. I think Arsenal broke its transfer record twice in the space of six months last year and I don't think either deal would've gone ahead without him knowing about it. That's hardly unambitious, and neither is the £100 million that Wenger spent - and more or less wasted - in the summer of 2014 and 2016, but the money was still there.

In the later years, Wenger held Arsenal back a lot more than Kroenke in my view and that's why it's important to hold Emery, Mislintat and Sanllehi accountable if they fail, not Kroenke. Kroenke didn't waste £50 million of the £70 million that was spent last summer mate. Arsenal, who are three points behind Chelsea, would comfortably be a top-four team at this moment in time had the money been spent better.

I do appreciate your viewpoint and it's a good one but what I think Kronke did was allow Wenger a fairly unrestricted financial outlay as I think Kronke believed Wenger could deliver a top four finish every year thereby keeping the club solvent and able to operate on fairly competitive terms with the big three spenders in the league. Kronke's belief in Wenger was misplaced. I also don't think Kronke could care less about Arsenal winning the league.

Wenger definitely held the club back but that's down to Kronke's faith in him and I don't feel Kronke is going to be so loose with money from now on. I agree that Emery and co. have to be accountable, I'm not arguing against that.

Re: Who's to blame?
SandyB 03 January, 2019 16:18
@hippogunner, spot on Stan Kroenke is leech, there is no 2nd thought about it. He isn't just a leech but a businessman who makes his fortune from sports business. But look at LA Rams they are having phenomenal season, he does put his money where the profit is. It might sound harsh but Arsenal doesn't seem to be his choice business unit which could bring fortune for him, at least not at this time.

@shano, get fuc.king over of being Wenger love child, mate. Wenger is a senile old man who sucked up to Kroenke for too long blowing up every opportunity to win things when he had clear path n Kroenke didn't jump into his pet project of LA Rams but was just hanging tight with empty St Louis Rams. No matter how much Wenger convinced his followers that he understood football economics but in reality he understood fuc.k all being the king of Arsenal he failed to convince his boss where to put his money for profit.

Now the train has passed so it's just half a season for the new management of Emery, Mislintat and Sanllehi to build things back and it's not easy. They have to build things with little room for mistake on and off the field. They need to strengthen the team, replace the underperformers on shoe string budget and stil keeping the hope for fans to win something as well as playing in CL next season.
This isn't easy task by any means of imagination, they don't have a Wenger cult backing them season after season singing his name even if winning fuc.k all.
The right word is 'patience' at the moment... there is no easy wayout mate!

Re: Who's to blame?
tigerline 03 January, 2019 17:24
Quote:
CazOnARola

Liverpool bought firminho, coutinho, sterling, sturridge (11mn i think), etc. Sold coutinho and sterling for a massive fee enough to get salah, van djik etc.

We have struggled big time in the transfer market, we are going to let go of ramaey for free.

So the onus is really on raul and mislintat and the scouting network. Cause like you said, owner is absolutely content with making profits and focused on American franchises.

Its a sad situation and we need scouting miracles one the ones at Liverpool and spurs to be competitive again

Caz, in furtherance of your point, it is not just big ticket transfers. I have to admire Liverpool's penchant for plucking players off of relegated teams as they were going down ... when the buying club has a lot more leverage. Three of their starters against us fit that profile:

A.Robertson - Hull
G.Wijnaldum - Newcastle
X.Shaqiri - Stoke

Liverpool has also developed a few notables out of their youth program to assemble the squad that they have now.

Scouting (and coaching) matters.

BTW, THEIR American owner, John Henry, just won the World Series with his Boston Red Sox. His management group assembled a well-rounded team that set several all-time MLB records for unparalled success ... and with a rookie manager at that.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/01/2019 17:28 by tigerline.

Re: Who's to blame?
SandyB 03 January, 2019 17:48
Quote:
tigerline
Quote:
CazOnARola

Liverpool bought firminho, coutinho, sterling, sturridge (11mn i think), etc. Sold coutinho and sterling for a massive fee enough to get salah, van djik etc.

We have struggled big time in the transfer market, we are going to let go of ramaey for free.

So the onus is really on raul and mislintat and the scouting network. Cause like you said, owner is absolutely content with making profits and focused on American franchises.

Its a sad situation and we need scouting miracles one the ones at Liverpool and spurs to be competitive again

Caz, in furtherance of your point, it is not just big ticket transfers. I have to admire Liverpool's penchant for plucking players off of relegated teams as they were going down ... when the buying club has a lot more leverage. Three of their starters against us fit that profile:

A.Robertson - Hull
G.Wijnaldum - Newcastle
X.Shaqiri - Stoke

Liverpool has also developed a few notables out of their youth program to assemble the squad that they have now.

Scouting (and coaching) matters.

BTW, THEIR American owner, John Henry, just won the World Series with his Boston Red Sox. His management group assembled a well-rounded team that set several all-time MLB records for unparalled success ... and with a rookie manager at that.

While all this are true, Liverpool didn't reach this stage in half a season.
If we have to consider Liverpool's downturn from last major trophy of CL 2004-05 or the last CL final on 07. They had a ownership change twice, manager changed 4 times.
Firmino cost them 29m(pound), Coutinho 9m. They wasted big money on players like Andy Carroll but bought Suarez on 25m.
Nothing can be blamed on Mislintat and Sanllehi as they are pretty much on the show with Emery this season after both Wenger n Gazidis left the club.

Everybody understands accountability stuff but you can't suddenly making these folks accountable in half a season forgetting the entire past 12 years.

We need to have patience and have faith on these folks before we can jump the gun on them which our Wenger love child shano trying to stir up here.

Re: Who's to blame?
CazOnARola 03 January, 2019 18:03
Quote:
tigerline
Quote:
CazOnARola

Liverpool bought firminho, coutinho, sterling, sturridge (11mn i think), etc. Sold coutinho and sterling for a massive fee enough to get salah, van djik etc.

We have struggled big time in the transfer market, we are going to let go of ramaey for free.

So the onus is really on raul and mislintat and the scouting network. Cause like you said, owner is absolutely content with making profits and focused on American franchises.

Its a sad situation and we need scouting miracles one the ones at Liverpool and spurs to be competitive again

Caz, in furtherance of your point, it is not just big ticket transfers. I have to admire Liverpool's penchant for plucking players off of relegated teams as they were going down ... when the buying club has a lot more leverage. Three of their starters against us fit that profile:

A.Robertson - Hull
G.Wijnaldum - Newcastle
X.Shaqiri - Stoke

Liverpool has also developed a few notables out of their youth program to assemble the squad that they have now.

Scouting (and coaching) matters.

BTW, THEIR American owner, John Henry, just won the World Series with his Boston Red Sox. His management group assembled a well-rounded team that set several all-time MLB records for unparalled success ... and with a rookie manager at that.
Tiger that was my point, buying under valued assets and selling them for the right price. The idea was the same under wenger, but we didn't sell at the right price, we sold cesc with 3 years left for 35 mn something when barca could easily have paid more. Same goes for a lot of others.
We also signed some duds on big contracts. Dick law and co were horrible negotiators. So a lot of onus is going to be on raul and mislintat and I'll give them time.

Emery is not going to be part of recruitment since he is the "head coach". So let's see.

Re: Who's to blame?
Shane 03 January, 2019 19:25
Quote:
hippogunner
I don't feel Kronke is going to be so loose with money from now on.

But is that because he's unambitious or is it because he doesn't trust Mislintat, Sanllehi and Emery with the keys to the vault quite yet?

It might have to be that they must get Arsenal back into the Champions League, thus adding a significant revenue stream, before that next-level spending is offset.

That's what happened at Liverpool. Klopp made one big-money signing - Sadio Mane - before he got Liverpool back into the top four. Now he's made quite a few, but he has accumulated a lot of trust and confidence in recent years.

Re: Who's to blame?
SandyB 03 January, 2019 19:47
Quote:
But is that because he's unambitious or is it because he doesn't trust Mislintat, Sanllehi and Emery with the keys to the vault quite yet?

Neither of the two, to understand this you need to understand the bigger picture.

What hippogunner said, Kroenke runs Arsenal club as business. That's just a part of the story, Kroenke runs his entire sports franchise as business n all are connected business.

Now he's 100% owner of Arsenal so technically there will be no shareholders meeting n no one will have a clue on the balancesheet of the club. He can pull the resource of one business n move it to another one, he can do a debt overload.

Mislintat, Sanllehi and Emery will never get anywhere close to the vault, that doesn't mean we are fuc.ked. He's smart enough the know how not to screw up one of his prime business.
Arsenal is currently not Kroenke's first priority, Mislintat, Sanllehi and Emery has to sort things out in much tighter budget with some spuds like development of own players while Kroenke sort things out on his major investment front.

Re: Who's to blame?
tigerline 03 January, 2019 22:13
Quote:
SandyB
Quote:
tigerline
Quote:
CazOnARola

Liverpool bought firminho, coutinho, sterling, sturridge (11mn i think), etc. Sold coutinho and sterling for a massive fee enough to get salah, van djik etc.

We have struggled big time in the transfer market, we are going to let go of ramaey for free.

So the onus is really on raul and mislintat and the scouting network. Cause like you said, owner is absolutely content with making profits and focused on American franchises.

Its a sad situation and we need scouting miracles one the ones at Liverpool and spurs to be competitive again

Caz, in furtherance of your point, it is not just big ticket transfers. I have to admire Liverpool's penchant for plucking players off of relegated teams as they were going down ... when the buying club has a lot more leverage. Three of their starters against us fit that profile:

A.Robertson - Hull
G.Wijnaldum - Newcastle
X.Shaqiri - Stoke

Liverpool has also developed a few notables out of their youth program to assemble the squad that they have now.

Scouting (and coaching) matters.

BTW, THEIR American owner, John Henry, just won the World Series with his Boston Red Sox. His management group assembled a well-rounded team that set several all-time MLB records for unparalled success ... and with a rookie manager at that.

While all this are true, Liverpool didn't reach this stage in half a season.
If we have to consider Liverpool's downturn from last major trophy of CL 2004-05 or the last CL final on 07. They had a ownership change twice, manager changed 4 times.
Firmino cost them 29m(pound), Coutinho 9m. They wasted big money on players like Andy Carroll but bought Suarez on 25m.
Nothing can be blamed on Mislintat and Sanllehi as they are pretty much on the show with Emery this season after both Wenger n Gazidis left the club.

Everybody understands accountability stuff but you can't suddenly making these folks accountable in half a season forgetting the entire past 12 years.

We need to have patience and have faith on these folks before we can jump the gun on them which our Wenger love child shano trying to stir up here.

Sandy, I surely hope that you did not interpret my post as suggesting anything untoward against Emery and our current staff. You should well know that I blamed wenger for the total mismanagement of our club. I was just adding to the discussion that Liverpool has assembled its squad through a variety of means. And yes, there have been some notable FAILS along the way.

I do believe that we have the pieces in place for a revival here, with the obvious exception of OUR scummy American owner.

Re: Who's to blame?
PKGooner 03 January, 2019 22:13
Wenger is to blame.

If he'd f*cked off earlier we might have got Klopp.

Re: Who's to blame?
Merlion96 03 January, 2019 22:19
True.
Koenke has a bigger fish to fry in making sure all his energies are channeled to make sure his multi-billion Ingelwood project will be successful in 2019, including loading Arsenal Holding with debts to service his borrowings.


If the looming recession became a reality due to current Trump's generated trade wars within 6 month time, just watch out finance goes south with debts transferred over here to service his American businesses.

DO not expect to have more cash for summer transfers. Inglewood needed all the cash that can be generated by Arsenal Holdings.

Arsene Wenger? Gazidis?
They are accountable for the mess they created for the past 2 years.

Remember how O'Leary Leeds United went under during their last 2 seasons in 1st Division with debts?

Remember how Redknapp Portsmouth and Redknapp QPR went under with debts, again loaded by a manager who simply buy and impossible long-term contract for non-performing players?

The mess that Arsene Wenger and Gazidis left behind in 350,000pw Ozil long-term contract is not financially feasible without CL Cup football.
And under Arsene Wenger, our salary scale ballooned to more than 50% of turnovers which so crippled Emery in getting players off the bill to get in new players.

With such a lucrative salary, players like Jenkinson, Ozil, Xhaka, Mustafi, et al will simply run down their contract as no other teams are willing to match their salary.


Elneny and Chambers new contract?
Just cynical to beleive that it is to prtect their transfer sales this summer.

Ramsey?
He wanted something on par or near to Ozil's whichw e can't afford.
Emery decided to take a gamble and look for a better player rather than having a "2nd Ozil" in the team.

WHo is to be blamed?
Just Wenger and Gazidis that left an Aegean Stable for Raul, Mislintat and Emery to clean up.



'The more things change, the more they remain the same' Alphonse Karr.

Re: Who's to blame?
SandyB 03 January, 2019 22:50
Quote:
PKGooner
Wenger is to blame.
If he'd f*cked off earlier we might have got Klopp.

Absolutely, that would have made a huge difference attracting quality players.

Re: Who's to blame?
Bergmars 04 January, 2019 06:54
Without investment from the board it doesn't make a difference Klopp has only started to challenge since Liverpool splashed the cash.



Under new managment

Re: Who's to blame?
hippogunner 04 January, 2019 08:47
Quote:
Shane
Quote:
hippogunner
I don't feel Kronke is going to be so loose with money from now on.

But is that because he's unambitious or is it because he doesn't trust Mislintat, Sanllehi and Emery with the keys to the vault quite yet?

It might have to be that they must get Arsenal back into the Champions League, thus adding a significant revenue stream, before that next-level spending is offset.

That's what happened at Liverpool. Klopp made one big-money signing - Sadio Mane - before he got Liverpool back into the top four. Now he's made quite a few, but he has accumulated a lot of trust and confidence in recent years.

That's a fair point. Not one we know the answer to yet. We have to hope that Emery and co. can find a player that can ignite the whole team but I'm not sure it'll be a big money signing rather a young player that we take a chance on and costs a little less than Toreira say.

Of course Liverpool had a huge financial boost with the sale of Coutinho. We'd need to sell about five players to match that financial return.

If Kronke had any vision he'd plough a few hundred million into the club and get us competing with City and the like because he'd make more money in the long run. Get the club winning titles and featuring constantly in the CL and see your investment grow. Maybe that's too simplistic economics but it seems logical to me.

Re: Who's to blame?
CazOnARola 04 January, 2019 10:51
Quote:
hippogunner
Quote:
Shane
Quote:
hippogunner
I don't feel Kronke is going to be so loose with money from now on.

But is that because he's unambitious or is it because he doesn't trust Mislintat, Sanllehi and Emery with the keys to the vault quite yet?

It might have to be that they must get Arsenal back into the Champions League, thus adding a significant revenue stream, before that next-level spending is offset.

That's what happened at Liverpool. Klopp made one big-money signing - Sadio Mane - before he got Liverpool back into the top four. Now he's made quite a few, but he has accumulated a lot of trust and confidence in recent years.

That's a fair point. Not one we know the answer to yet. We have to hope that Emery and co. can find a player that can ignite the whole team but I'm not sure it'll be a big money signing rather a young player that we take a chance on and costs a little less than Toreira say.

Of course Liverpool had a huge financial boost with the sale of Coutinho. We'd need to sell about five players to match that financial return.

If Kronke had any vision he'd plough a few hundred million into the club and get us competing with City and the like because he'd make more money in the long run. Get the club winning titles and featuring constantly in the CL and see your investment grow. Maybe that's too simplistic economics but it seems logical to me.
Its about the risk reward ratio. And how you want to earn that money. Pumping in money will just give you a chance but no guarantees for success. If you aren't interested in sporting success and earning more money that way, you might just be happy collecting the cash.

So until sporting success becomes necessary for earning money, unless you are invested in supporting success personally, u might not invest more. Thsts where the fans come in.

But we have to see how the next two windows pan out, cause in past we did spend money but that money was spent on xhaka, mustafi, and calum chambers among others and we did not ses great returns on those investment.

This season is all about emery showing what he can do with what he's got and if it's the lack of quality that is deemed as the only hurdle, then they sold be backing emery in the next window.

If they don't, then that would tell the story about how willing kronke is

Re: Who's to blame?
Merlion96 04 January, 2019 23:31
But Kroenke will not have any money soon in the future.
He got to pay off his US$3-billion Inglewood project debt first.

Hence, Arsenal FC and Sanllehi and Board will have to live with the self-sustainable model for the next 10 to 15 years.



'The more things change, the more they remain the same' Alphonse Karr.

Re: Who's to blame?
CazOnARola 05 January, 2019 05:47
Merl, it's not about him putting his own money. Arsenal have enough resources to be able to buy decent players every window. It's kronke taking money out that I'm worried about

Re: Who's to blame?
Bergmars 05 January, 2019 15:23
I’ve seen Kroenke pulls 4*5 mill a quarter to service his debt incurred when buying Usmanov out.Would explain a lot also he has put exactly zero personal cash into the club we are between a rock that’s eviident.



Under new managment

Re: Who's to blame?
Merlion96 05 January, 2019 16:00
Yeah, Kroenke has 2 major loans to service:
#1 - Bought out Usmanov
#2 - US$3-billion Inglewood

Like Glazer Family, it is a simple task to leverage cash-rich Arsenal Holdings to service those loans for the next 10 to 15 years without taking out a cent out of his pocket.

Kroenke has no choice but to execute this strategic move to buy out Usmanov, gain 100% control, and just milk an Arsenal cash-cow without any public annual report to report to nuisance stakeholder.

E.g.
If an asset calls Arsenal Holdings is worth US$2-billion, Kroenke can easily borrow US$2-billion to pay off Inglewood and leaves Arsenal Holdings with US$2-billion debt to pay off between 20 to 30 years with annual gross profit raising to about US$100-mil to US$150-mil for the next 10 years.

Now, if Swiss Ramble or AST can uncover Arsenal Holding FY2018/19 Annual Report, it will make most interesting reading.



'The more things change, the more they remain the same' Alphonse Karr.

Re: Who's to blame?
SandyB 05 January, 2019 17:43
Stan aKroenke’s LA Rams worth 4billion now. He’s splashing his cash all over LA Rams now n he’s the 2nd richest NFL owner worth 8.5b far richer than John Henry of Liverpool. He splashed his cash 135m on a single player this season for LA Rams. As I said, Arsenal isn’t his prime investment anymore, Wenger is solely to blame for the situation Arsenal is in today, he was self righteous on his FairPlay bullsh.it while making his own big bucks without even trying to pull Kroenke to other side of the pond. We missed the bus n Now we are in for a long wait.
LA Rams superbowl hope
Don’t think it’s gonna happen though, Chicago Bears will win the Super Bowl this year grinning smiley

Re: Who's to blame?
mapleleafgooner 06 January, 2019 14:14
Bears to win superbowl? U are kidding of course.

Re: Who's to blame?
tigerline 06 January, 2019 14:33
Quote:
SandyB
Stan aKroenke’s LA Rams worth 4billion now. He’s splashing his cash all over LA Rams now n he’s the 2nd richest NFL owner worth 8.5b far richer than John Henry of Liverpool. He splashed his cash 135m on a single player this season for LA Rams. As I said, Arsenal isn’t his prime investment anymore, Wenger is solely to blame for the situation Arsenal is in today, he was self righteous on his FairPlay bullsh.it while making his own big bucks without even trying to pull Kroenke to other side of the pond. We missed the bus n Now we are in for a long wait.
LA Rams superbowl hope
Don’t think it’s gonna happen though, Chicago Bears will win the Super Bowl this year grinning smiley

No way, Sandy ... watch out for my New Orleans Saints!
WHO DAT!

Re: Who's to blame?
SandyB 07 January, 2019 02:05
It was so close, so close Bears loss the playoff! (Sm40)


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
We record all IP addresses on the Sportnetwork message boards which may be required by the authorities in case of defamatory or abusive comment. We seek to monitor the Message Boards at regular intervals. We do not associate Sportnetwork with any of the comments and do not take responsibility for any statements or opinions expressed on the Message Boards. If you have any cause for concern over any material posted here please let us know as soon as possible by e-mailing abuse@sportnetwork.net