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The Myth of Arsene Wenger "building" Emirates
Discussion started by Merlion96 , 04 May, 2012 14:16
The Myth of Arsene Wenger "building" Emirates
Merlion96 04 May, 2012 14:16
Let's re-cap our 2006/07 season and contrast that to this season:

John Simmons & Matt Simmons “Winning Together: The Story of the Arsenal brand” 2006 by Cyan Books.

The move to Ashburton Grove represented major upheaval for club and supporters alike, with Wenger’s tenure offering some stability. Wenger had become an emissary for this club: a figure who has served to advise his board of directors as well as masterminding his side’s progress on the pitch.

The official line offered by manager and club was that Wenger was both in favor of and hugely influential in Arsenal’s move to Emirates.

‘I pushed the board of directors.’ He said at the beginning of 2006. ‘I think the stadium is the result partly of my encouragement and the enormous courage of the board, because I don’t know many boards of directors in the world who would have been as courageous as to enter into such a challenge.’

However, those in the know claim the manager was not in fact as fervent a supporter of the project as has been claimed. Rather, he determined that it would have been folly to question the club’s decision to pursue the move.

Arsene Wenger’s philosophy has always been to create a legacy for Arsenal. Thus, when it came to the bricks and mortar of building a new home, he was happy to appear alongside his chairman, Peter Hill-Wood, at a press conference announcing the partnership between Arsenal and Emirates Airlines, whose name would be associated with Emirates Stadium and the club’s kit for 7 years at least from the summer of 2006.

‘The new stadium was used as a media tool,’ explained Alex Fynn. ‘But I don’t think Arsene Wenger wanted all the money from this partnership with Emirates to go to this new home. I think he wanted a functional rather than luxurious stadium.’

At the beginning of the decision-making process, Wenger and David Dein had wanted the board of directors to consider all possible options for a new stadium without spending to excess.


These options would have been, for example, to share the new ground with bitter rivals Tiny Totts or even to ‘rent’ the new Wembley Stadium.

‘But Daniel Fiszman and Peter Hill-Wood from the outset had wanted to do things on a grand scale, along the same lines as the club had always done in the past,’ added Fynn.

‘The Fiszman and Hill-Wood alliance thus won over Dein-Wenger. The position of Arsene, Dein’s principal ally, was therefore to a certain extent weakened.

It was the alliance of the nouveau riche [Fiszman] and the old traditionalist [Hill-Wood] which won the day over the two pragmatist who were, perhaps, more concerned with the continued development of the team.

Once the decision was made, things moved so quickly that Arsene wasn’t really involved apart from matters directly affecting the playing side.’

Others within the club disagree with that interpretation of the politics in the lead-up to Arsenal’s move to Ashburton Grove.

‘If Arsene has constantly mentioned the need to build this new stadium ever since, it is because he was personally involved in its design, just as he was with the Training Centre in Colney,’ said the source, who suggested instead that the Alsatian was always totally committed to the move, visiting the stadium during its construction whenever he could and supervising everything from the laying of the turf to choosing the carpets throughout spring of 2006.

‘Wenger and Dein certainly stated they wanted the new stadium to be built,’ said Fynn. ‘But that they didn’t want it to be at the expense of transfer monies. They therefore expressed some reservations, but in vain – in the end, they were overruled.’

The sporting and economic implications of this struggle in the boardroom were enormous. Over the course of the 2004/05 season, Arsenal’s debt increased from around £150 million to £180 million.

On the other hand, cash reserves rose from around £18 million to £75 million in the same period, through increased television revenues from domestic and European competition, and commercial sponsorship deals. ‘It could be that the Emirates Stadium was the right decision in the end,’ stressed Fynn.

‘But it will only be so if Arsene Wenger stays and continues to qualify the team for the Champions League, accruing all the television and marketing revenues associated with that competition. AS long as he stays at Arsenal and ensures them their success to date, they will be OK. However, should they fail …’

Arsenal’s board have insisted publicly that the club have prepared for the worst-case scenario – a finish outside the Premiership’s top four – but they would rather that never came to pass.

When asked about the Emirates, Wenger merely stresses the benefits of the move. ‘ The club should pay off all the costs associated with the ground move in the next 10 years,’ he said.

‘But the stadium initially cost us a lot. Now, though, the financial situation will improved given the size of the arena we have moved to, and the off-field benefits it will bring. It is true that it has been a painful few years, though. We have steadily had to cut the wage bill and invest less in transfers.’

The venture in north London had immediate economic benefits for the area. Some 1,800 jobs were created in Islington, and 2,000 homes were built in the borough.

The club now benefits from 150 executive boxes, 3 times as many as at Highbury. Revenues increased accordingly, with some 2,000 meals served in the boxes on matchdays, and an exclusive ‘Diamond Club’ facility. Added to that the 1,000-square-meter mega-store at the new ground and the potential leap in income is clear.

‘There is one further resource to be exploited: the Internet,’ Wenger said. ‘For me, being a great club means being long lasting, getting consistent results, being on top domestically. This is not easy because today, in all countries, you can see clubs with enormous financial potential which fall from 1st to 12th place in the blink of an eye. We faced this problem.’

Towards the end of 2005, when Arsenal’s form was riddled with inconsistencies and the team languished well outside the Premiership’s top four, the club teetered on the brink of such ignominy.

‘It is a great disappointment to be so low in the table,’ said Wenger. ‘That disappointment is born of the fact that the club has grown, and with that growth, higher targets have been set. They are more and more demanding. But, at the same time, at present there are 10 or 12 clubs in the Premiership who are of the same specific financial potential as us. That is not reflected in our ambitions.’

Looking at the figures for the club, there is a temptation to present Wenger as a businessman.

Alex Fynn rejects this theory vehemently: ‘I don’t think it is fair to present him as a businessman, because he is not involved in the economic affairs of the club as such.

He is not linked to any of the purely commercial decisions, such as getting sponsors or choosing suppliers. The only economic aspects in which Arsene is concerned are those linked to the game, and here he has strong views.

For example, he sees no economic sense in Chelsea’s lavish spending. ‘If the football authorities applied rules of business, Chelsea may not have the right to operate in the way they do – piling up debt as a result of playing costs,’

Wenger said. ‘For me, Chelsea are a club who use a kind of economic doping because their resources are artificial, because Abramovich has not had to adjust his investment in line with the revenue from the club. This is the real problem: the financial situation in England is not dictated byt eh clubs’ natural resources, but by artificial pressure from Chelsea.’

At the end of the 1990s, when Manchester United’s turnover was by some by some considerable distance the biggest in the Premiership with Arsenal ranked only 6th, Alex Fynn shared a conversation with Wenger.

‘He told me he was going to make Arsenal the biggest club in the world,’ recalled Fynn of the chat with his neighbor in Totteridge.

‘I replied: “You can’t. Manchester United have a much better infrastructure than Arsenal, and a bigger fan base as well. The United brand has been out there for years and is therefore infinitely stronger than that of Arsenal.” He acknowledged my point.’

In 2006, Wenger said: ‘I prefer working within the framework of a private company. I can only be happy if I have the support of my board of directors. This is why I have been here so long. I have my freedom. This profession is difficult enough as it is, and if you also had to confront the owners it would become impossible.

_____________________________________________________

With GAzidis and Kroenke, does Wenger really have that freedom?

Or is he just another french poodle of a corporate man, toeing the line and collecting hsi doss?

Look to me Wenger is a corporate man, a weenie toeing the line set by PHW, Gazidis and Kroenke now...watching the bottom-line, ensure he generates profit every season to the extent of selling all his crown jewels of players which he nurtured since they were 16 year old.

Like he retorted to Vieira's whingeing on playing world-class players: 'You were not worldclass when you joined Arsenal!"

The problem is when his youngsters became worldclass like Fabregas, they all f**k-off or sold for a handsome profit.

Re: The Myth of Arsene Wenger "building" Emirates
PKGooner 04 May, 2012 14:19
Its not a myth.

I saw him unloading cement from a truck.

Re: The Myth of Arsene Wenger "building" Emirates
Mad Jens 04 May, 2012 14:19
You type too much for me to bother reading at 9am on a Friday at work.

Re: The Myth of Arsene Wenger "building" Emirates
gooney 04 May, 2012 22:02
so how would we be able to build this stadium without wenger breaking even with his net spending and guarantee CL football every season? Cause thats what people mean when they say wengers transfer dealings has build the stadium.

I know you want to downplay wengers role in this, but you cant argue against his transfer spending over the last 8 8-9 years as the numbers is there for everyone to see. Would the club have been in this position without CL footie for the last 6 years? Because he has been giving us that with even net spend

Re: The Myth of Arsene Wenger "building" Emirates
RadioFreeArsenal 05 May, 2012 00:57
Gooney the answer is quite easily - had we not borrowed the additional 130 million to re-develop Highbury and instead taken the 40-80 million from its sale and used some of that money even to cover the loan payments from say 2004-2006.

Of course if we hadn't re-developed Highbury the share price may not have risen over 5000 GBP from 2009 to 2011 (and check the stock's history before offering the economy as an excuse) and over 10000 GBP from 2004.

Guess that was a nice coincidence eh?

Re: The Myth of Arsene Wenger "building" Emirates
Merlion96 05 May, 2012 00:59
WIth or without Emirates, Wenger will always be the same and stick to hsi fundamental philosophy of the 'Ajax Model of Team Building" since the days of AS Nancy, AS Monaco and Grampus Eight.

He will always on the look-out for talented yougnsters who he will love to nurture and coach 'em into worldclass players. (Anelka, Kolo, Clichy, Van Persie, Fabregas, Freddy, et al)

He will always sniffed out bargains, recognised the potential of underwhelmed players linguishing in the reserves (Vieira, Henry,)

And taking a risk with seriously injured player that other avoided..Overmars, Bischoff....

Wenger got lucky in 1990s because of his connection with French Football, and it coincided with the Golden Era of French FOotball.

That accounted for why after 2005s, Wenger was unabled to ganrer the same degree of successes in his early years with Arsenal:
1 - French FOotball on the decline and the rise of Spanish Football;
2 - He lost his lead over his rivals in talent-spotting, and every clubs, including Real, start emulating him and challenging Wenger all the way for his targets and potential targets.

Even if we stayput at Highbury, Wenegr will not change and will still generate profits every season for ASrsenal simply he is that kind of man who will stick to his philosophy of building teams form within as his greatest pleasure is to talent-spot youngsters and groomed into worldclass players.

I did a piece before and shown since we moved to Emirates in 2006/07, our football revenues (excluding palyer trading) base don Deoittle MOney League indicated the growth fo annual receipts is rather flat and hardly grew beyond its initial 2006/07 revenues.

It means Arsene Wenger is a football purist, whose philosophy is grow from within, pre-season training is for preparation the team only...and summer is not meant for touring to generate income for Arsenal Holdings.

Like a good corporate man, he toed the line when push comes to a shove...and followed "persuasion" to tour Asia ..starting with last summer...adn continue with this summer.

Sure, he gave valuable insights which he had learned in Japan as to what he wanted for Emirates...but really just a PR Frontman for Arsenal Holdings with the Puppetmaster in Fizman and PHW pulling the strings back-stage.

Like Tom Cruise "MIsison Impoosible"...you associated the film with Tom Cruise...do you remember the Producer and the Director?

Re: The Myth of Arsene Wenger "building" Emirates
Mad Jens 05 May, 2012 01:37
Quote:
RadioFreeArsenal
Gooney the answer is quite easily - had we not borrowed the additional 130 million to re-develop Highbury and instead taken the 40-80 million from its sale and used some of that money even to cover the loan payments from say 2004-2006.
Of course if we hadn't re-developed Highbury the share price may not have risen over 5000 GBP from 2009 to 2011 (and check the stock's history before offering the economy as an excuse) and over 10000 GBP from 2004.

Guess that was a nice coincidence eh?

Have we or have we not recouped our expenditure and then some from the sales of the flats at Highbury? I assume that's what we're talking about?

I was under the distinct impression we had.

Re: The Myth of Arsene Wenger "building" Emirates
Merlion96 05 May, 2012 01:55
Quote:
Mad Jens
Quote:
RadioFreeArsenal
Gooney the answer is quite easily - had we not borrowed the additional 130 million to re-develop Highbury and instead taken the 40-80 million from its sale and used some of that money even to cover the loan payments from say 2004-2006.
Of course if we hadn't re-developed Highbury the share price may not have risen over 5000 GBP from 2009 to 2011 (and check the stock's history before offering the economy as an excuse) and over 10000 GBP from 2004.

Guess that was a nice coincidence eh?

Have we or have we not recouped our expenditure and then some from the sales of the flats at Highbury? I assume that's what we're talking about?

I was under the distinct impression we had.

We ar actually debt-free - about 2 years ago? - from that property development loan.

Thsi FY2012 and FY2013 will be last FY that we have rpofits from property development.

From FY2013 onwards, all revenues will be football-related businesses....hence whyw e are touring to garner a bigger exposure in the lucrative Asian and Middle Eastern market..not forgetting our tradiityonal strong presence in Africa as well.

If USmanov managed to garner 30% shares and a director seat, I am cofnident that Gazidis and Kroneke will be pragmatic and worked out a compromise with USmanov to tap into the growing RUsski Market as well as the rich Central Asian markets.

Monry talks, bullsh*t walks.

Wouldn't surprise moi that Kroenke and USmanov will get rid of those old foggies and freeloaders within 2 seasons and staff the Board with their own corporate poodles like Gazidis.

One of the reason that Arsene Wenger may not continue after 2014 is the politics at Boardroom level; plus the perception that he will not be given a freehand and worked under a short leash with Gazidis.

Wenegr will rather manage PSG in 2014/15 with a compeltely freehand, rebuild their Youth Academy, revamp the senior squad, perhaps another stadia rebuilding project...and unlimited funds from Qataris to transform PSG into a CL Cup winnner...adn also an advisory roel to help teh Qatar National Team in WC2022...with Qatari 16 rold training at PSG Youth Academy.

Where Arsene Wenegr is given the biggest challenge of his life:
Using "Ajax Model of Team Building" to build a Qatar National team in readiness for WC2022; a team that will qualify for teh 2nd round and beyond..

Starting with Qatari 16 year old at PSG Academy in 2014/15 season...money no objection.

You think Arsene Wenger can resist this PSG lure to return to hsi homeland after 18 years in England?

..adn closer to Tatar for a sinful weekend (Sm6)

Re: The Myth of Arsene Wenger "building" Emirates
gooney 05 May, 2012 02:25
Quote:
RadioFreeArsenal
Gooney the answer is quite easily - had we not borrowed the additional 130 million to re-develop Highbury and instead taken the 40-80 million from its sale and used some of that money even to cover the loan payments from say 2004-2006.
Of course if we hadn't re-developed Highbury the share price may not have risen over 5000 GBP from 2009 to 2011 (and check the stock's history before offering the economy as an excuse) and over 10000 GBP from 2004.

Guess that was a nice coincidence eh?

what does that have to do with what I said? Like I said when we were building a new stadium, the club knew they would have to cut their spending for few years. Wenger was at the peak of his career, he could easily have played the media and put pressure on the club to give him far more money....he didnt. Pretty much any club in the world would want him and he wouldnt have any problem getting a top job.

Instead he put his reputation on the line for the club and agreed to be patient. So dont act like we could have spent big during those years or that we would be fine without the last 6 years CL money.

Despite not being Wengers greatest fan, Im sane enough unlike you to understand what he has done for this club and how important he has been for us being a top club the last 15 years. Before he came we had a reputation of being a boring team and a fairly big club. You can delude yourself thinking we were an elite club. Just go back and see how many times we did qualify for Europe before Wenger for example. You really are one trick pony with your conspiricy that everyone is just filling their pockets and dont care about winning. To say Wenger dont want to win is the biggest nonsense out there as he is going insane due to frustration.

You can question his decision fair enough....but dont you dare questioning the mans integrity



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/05/2012 02:32 by gooney.

Re: The Myth of Arsene Wenger "building" Emirates
RadioFreeArsenal 05 May, 2012 02:39
It has everything to d too with it. had we not borrowed an additional 130 million re-develop Highbury and just taken the 40-80 million GBP and used some or even most of it from 2005 to 2007 to address the stadium loan without having to re-deirect money that would customarily have gone back into the football team.

You just like the Board seem to want to pretend the re-development of Highbury never happened so you can ignore all the issues it in fact created then for the club and team and raises for all of us who care about the truth today.

Re: The Myth of Arsene Wenger "building" Emirates
gooney 05 May, 2012 03:13
offcourse it has happened.....the person pretending is you who clearly dont realize how expensive it is to build a new stadium. You simply dont get how much of a hit the club has taken on building the stadium so we can have better future

Re: The Myth of Arsene Wenger "building" Emirates
gooney 05 May, 2012 03:15
oh for heaven sake....do you realise how expensive it is to build a stadium? Those things needed to happen and we still desperately needed cl football and break even in the transfer market

Re: The Myth of Arsene Wenger "building" Emirates
Mad Jens 05 May, 2012 03:19
Quote:
RadioFreeArsenal
You just like the Board seem to want to pretend the re-development of Highbury never happened so you can ignore all the issues it in fact created then for the club and team and raises for all of us who care about the truth today.

We made profit on the flats, and the payments for the stadium are fixed. How has the Highbury development affected us negatively.

Re: The Myth of Arsene Wenger "building" Emirates
RadioFreeArsenal 05 May, 2012 06:18
How has it affected Arsenal positively is an even better question. I am writing a piece on it now.Bet that has you excited lol

Re: The Myth of Arsene Wenger "building" Emirates
Mad Jens 05 May, 2012 06:24
How has it affected us positively?

Er, we made gobs of money. How much analysis do you need on that.

Re: The Myth of Arsene Wenger "building" Emirates
Merlion96 05 May, 2012 06:38
Quote:
RadioFreeArsenal
How has it affected Arsenal positively is an even better question. I am writing a piece on it now.Bet that has you excited lol

RFA, the negativity of Emirates' Debt was gone since lasts eason when we are debt free form that property development laon - all paid up and collecting the last profit payments form QUeensland Road devleopment this FY or the next.

Emirates Mortgage Loan is a stable annual payment of 20-mil per annum till 2031.


Not forgetting that Nike shirt deal is dued for re-negotiaiton in 2014.....

We got lucky that we built EMirates early..and now look at Tiny Toots, Chelski adn Liverpools truggling to build their 60,000-seater of a stadium.

Re: The Myth of Arsene Wenger "building" Emirates
De Times 05 May, 2012 07:10
Quote:
Merlion96
Wenger had become an emissary for this club: a figure who has served to advise his board of directors as well as masterminding his side’s progress on the pitch.
..

...Rather, he determined that it would have been folly to question the club’s decision to pursue the move.

....‘If Arsene has constantly mentioned the need to build this new stadium ever since, it is because he was personally involved in its design, just as he was with the Training Centre in Colney,’ said the source, who suggested instead that the Alsatian was always totally committed to the move, visiting the stadium during its construction whenever he could and supervising everything from the laying of the turf to choosing the carpets throughout spring of 2006.


But it will only be so if Arsene Wenger stays and continues to qualify the team for the Champions League, accruing all the television and marketing revenues associated with that competition. AS long as he stays at Arsenal and ensures them their success to date, they will be OK. However, should they fail …

.

...‘It is a great disappointment to be so low in the table,’ said Wenger. ‘That disappointment is born of the fact that the club has grown, and with that growth, higher targets have been set. They are more and more demanding. But, at the same time, at present there are 10 or 12 clubs in the Premiership who are of the same specific financial potential as us. That is not reflected in our ambitions.’


The only reason the size of our finances was not reflected in our ambitions was cos wenger was their to push us beyond our means. This explains why wenger says finishing in the top four is like a trophy cos it was definitely a target exceeding his financial capabilities. That wenger push was neccesary to keep the project going without hitches, and without such push, the team would probably have moved from highbury to an empty emirates stadium playing in division one.
For me, the biggest supporter of Wenger on this board is Merlion96. This article further prove that wenger's imput into the new stadium was integral to the finishing of the project and sustaining the club for success. Merl knew this and still posted it.

Re: The Myth of Arsene Wenger "building" Emirates
RadioFreeArsenal 05 May, 2012 07:26
Quote:
Merlion96
Quote:
RadioFreeArsenal
How has it affected Arsenal positively is an even better question. I am writing a piece on it now.Bet that has you excited lol

RFA, the negativity of Emirates' Debt was gone since lasts eason when we are debt free form that property development laon - all paid up and collecting the last profit payments form QUeensland Road devleopment this FY or the next.

Emirates Mortgage Loan is a stable annual payment of 20-mil per annum till 2031.


Not forgetting that Nike shirt deal is dued for re-negotiaiton in 2014.....

We got lucky that we built EMirates early..and now look at Tiny Toots, Chelski adn Liverpools truggling to build their 60,000-seater of a stadium.
I would agree with much of the facts you present and agree fully abiot the timing of the construction of the Emirates.
But as I will show shortly the decision to Redevelop Highbury is one that still remains to be seen bearing any fruit for Arsenal Football Club and it has done quite the opposite in fact. there are very real and serious questions every Gooner should want answered about that decision and the revenue it produced and answered sooner not later, Merl

Re: The Myth of Arsene Wenger "building" Emirates
Merlion96 05 May, 2012 11:16
Quote:
De Times
Quote:
Merlion96
Wenger had become an emissary for this club: a figure who has served to advise his board of directors as well as masterminding his side’s progress on the pitch.
..

...Rather, he determined that it would have been folly to question the club’s decision to pursue the move.

....‘If Arsene has constantly mentioned the need to build this new stadium ever since, it is because he was personally involved in its design, just as he was with the Training Centre in Colney,’ said the source, who suggested instead that the Alsatian was always totally committed to the move, visiting the stadium during its construction whenever he could and supervising everything from the laying of the turf to choosing the carpets throughout spring of 2006.


But it will only be so if Arsene Wenger stays and continues to qualify the team for the Champions League, accruing all the television and marketing revenues associated with that competition. AS long as he stays at Arsenal and ensures them their success to date, they will be OK. However, should they fail …

.

...‘It is a great disappointment to be so low in the table,’ said Wenger. ‘That disappointment is born of the fact that the club has grown, and with that growth, higher targets have been set. They are more and more demanding. But, at the same time, at present there are 10 or 12 clubs in the Premiership who are of the same specific financial potential as us. That is not reflected in our ambitions.’


The only reason the size of our finances was not reflected in our ambitions was cos wenger was their to push us beyond our means. This explains why wenger says finishing in the top four is like a trophy cos it was definitely a target exceeding his financial capabilities. That wenger push was neccesary to keep the project going without hitches, and without such push, the team would probably have moved from highbury to an empty emirates stadium playing in division one.
For me, the biggest supporter of Wenger on this board is Merlion96. This article further prove that wenger's imput into the new stadium was integral to the finishing of the project and sustaining the club for success. Merl knew this and still posted it.

Thank you De Times...(Sm6)

My "96" tells us.

Thanks to all Football Gods I did nto type wrongly and it became "69"..(Sm22)


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