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Fosun lose 1 billion plus
Discussion started by an angry wolf , 26 September, 2019 10:51
Fosun lose 1 billion plus
an angry wolf 26 September, 2019 10:51
As the title says after the collapse of Thomas cook. I'm amazed forums like the mix havent really mentioned this as it will undoubtedly affect wolves despite sound bytes to the contrary. Lets not fool ourselves into thinking the surge in wolves footballing fortunes is down to astute management or coaching no matter how much I like Nuno. I wouldn't expect to see much investment in the next few transfer windows with the financial hit Fosun have taken from this business decision and wouldn't be at all surprised if they decided to sell the club making 4-5 times what they paid for it. Supporters are emotionally attached to the club, owners rarely are. Bad financial news for the owner/s is almost always very bad news for the owned club.

Re: Fosun lose 1 billion plus
barmy army wolf 26 September, 2019 17:43
I didn’t know they owned Thomas Cook, thought they were just interested in a potential take over?
The company had been struggling for sometime....

Hope I’m right on what I’m thinking, and they stayed well away!

Re: Fosun lose 1 billion plus
Cheshire wolf 26 September, 2019 19:51
Quote:
barmy army wolf
I didn’t know they owned Thomas Cook, thought they were just interested in a potential take over?
The company had been struggling for sometime....

Hope I’m right on what I’m thinking, and they stayed well away!

No Barmy - it's on the back of yesterday's Daily Mail confirming they were already investors, and have taken a big hit. They were recently looking at investing a further £450 million but realised in time!

Re: Fosun lose 1 billion plus
barmy army wolf 26 September, 2019 20:43
In that case then then need a new team of lawyers...
It was said in an article the other day that the government refused a bail out due, sloppy Heads not even bothered, and the 250mil would literally be a waste!
FFS...
No wonder they are looking for investors, for 20% of the Club...
They get their money back plus some change and still have a football club! 😡

Re: Fosun lose 1 billion plus
Ivybridge Wolf 27 September, 2019 10:38
Birmingham Mail - report

A view from the Brumigum Mail. Can’t really work out its basis - expert opinion, guesswork, a bit of propaganda, highly informed view point, page / web filler.



https://i.pinimg.com/236x/74/97/b1/7497b1d1e231e8f83fc02db12bc473da--uk-football-sports-logos.jpg

Re: Fosun lose 1 billion plus
chicagowolf 27 September, 2019 14:53
Fosun clearly likes ‘badges’ with companies that have known names. I remember when they bought Wolves that Thos Cook, and Cirque de Soleil were mentioned, although I had completely forgotten and it came as a bit of a jolt seeing it the other day.
It leads to three questions. First will this change Fosun’s strategy? It may do, because brands are not guarantees and often require a lot of investment that are tough to quantify.
Second what are the fundamentals of what has happened financially since the acquisition? On valuation they paid fifty million and it was reported that the club is now worth three-fifty (presumably if we retain Premier status) but they have spent to improve Wolves which will have used a chunk of that profit. But you would imagine they are pleased.
Third, do they need the money? The fact that they were already looking for a minor shareholder to sell a portion to indicates cash may be an important issue. But this is a huge company AND the finances of ChiCom companies don’t respond to market forces like western ones.
In other words, we will know when we know. Meanwhile I am off to Vegas to see the Beatles Love show (Cirque at the Mirage).
We HAVE to beat Watford, or, ridiculously this might enter into the equation

Re: Fosun lose 1 billion plus
barmy army wolf 27 September, 2019 15:34
Reading that interesting but quite confusing article...

Wonder if they want a company/business to come in so the can filter some money to them without the Chinese Government needing to know, or do the can go back to their Government to say we are in the black!!! 😬✌️

Re: Fosun lose 1 billion plus
an angry wolf 27 September, 2019 18:16
Fosun have already changed their strategy regarding wolves, this was evident in the last window when Thomas cook shares rock bottomed just before this.. it's no coincidence we haven't spent heavily in the summer and they are looking to sell 20% of the club. Unless we are threatened with relegation come January , I expect very minimal investment

Re: Fosun lose 1 billion plus
oldngold 29 September, 2019 18:26
The loss is expected to be around 37 Million.

[www.asiatimes.com]

Fosun are now bidding for what assets remain including the Thomas Cook brand name.

FFP is what will limit Fosun's investment in players. Would be interested to see where we are on that. But I think we still have plenty of room.

Fosun have been talking about bringing in a partner to work with to develop the ground for a while.

This is just business. Fosun wanted to save Thomas Cook and had the basis of a deal but City was unhappy with the dilution of value to Shareholders, and I understand the Hedge Funds didn't want any reinvestment, and the Banks suddenly requested more money from Thomas Cook, which suggests the short sellers in the City won out. This is a dirty game. Fosun haven't come out that badly.

[www.thisismoney.co.uk]

Re: Fosun lose 1 billion plus
an angry wolf 30 September, 2019 00:46
You're quoting what is from an Asian article oldngold from claims over what Fosun say they have lost- who knows what the figure is. Do you really think a business wouldnt attempt to understate their losses in order to give confidence to other business partners? Independent analysts estimate the figure to be over 1 billion but no one really knows- hopefully your figure is correct but I'm far from convinced. No one will want to invest with any company which has lost over 1 billion due to a bad business decision contrary to one which has lost relative chicken feed

Re: Fosun lose 1 billion plus
chicagowolf 01 October, 2019 18:54
Agreed. Companies the world over try to cover up losses and exaggerate ‘achievements’. Even our accounting practices allow this to some extent but Chinese companies have even more obscure finances, leaving us all to speculate.
Meantime on one of yesterday’s financial tv shows they announced, without comment, that shares of TUI and EasyJet shot up! Wonder why? Might it be the disappearance of a big competitor. Travel is not going away any time soon and despite the blundering non-performance of Thos Cook, you have to believe somebody will pay the administrator for the brand (soiled or not).

Re: Fosun lose 1 billion plus
oldngold 04 October, 2019 16:17
This was in the London Evening Standard and makes clear the story in the Asia Times which is a serious business newspaper.

[www.standard.co.uk]

The shareholding was worth £37 Million not £1 Billion. The latter figure represents the losses of the company not the shareholders. Fosun had made no formal guarantees to Thomas Cook and were in the process of trying to negotiate a debt restructuring with the Banks.

This came unstuck for a number of reasons, but one of the key reasons were Hedge Funds shorting Thomas Cook stock and they were concerned about any rescue boosting the share price and making the business a going concern and hence putting their short positions at a loss.

The Banks pulled any further support and demanded repayment as well as refusing to any debt restructuring plan effectively banishing the company to liquidation. Who pressured the Banks? Well the Hedge Funds (and the Shadow Banking market). I think there are grounds to investigate what went on here, and we may not have heard the last of this event.

Fosun's losses are specific to the value of the equity (shares) they held, which are rendered worthless through the liquidation. The owners of the debt, then bondholders get first dibs as they sell off the assets of the group. Including brands, products, airline slots, hotels etc etc. Not sure of the type of shares Fosun own whether they have an preference share or debentures, but their equity is worth Nil so they've lost £37 Million for sure. With no other liabilities as shareholders have limited liability that is it.

Fosun do want to try and buy the brand names for various Thomas Cook companies and operations. It is still a well known name and the brands still have some value.

But is this going to bring down Fosun International? No

Should the problems in this operation affect Wolves? No, it should not.

This kind of speculation is actually potentially far more damaging than being worried about whether we might get relegated if we're too complacent on the pitch. Fosun have been talking about bringing in more partners to invest in Wolves for many months and well before the collapse of Thomas Cook.

In terms of Fosun Groups turnover and gross profit the figures in Yuan and Dollars are here
[www.fosun.com]

The group's Gross Profit in sterling last year was over £1.5 Billion.

Fosun were actually trying to do the right thing here and support an iconic Uk brand and company. And the City of London did its usual thing and @#$%& all over that and now and more importantly thousands of people lost their jobs and another vacancy has been created on the high street.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/10/2019 16:24 by oldngold.


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