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Challenging the fuzz in an unmarked van
Discussion started by an angry wolf , 10 June, 2019 10:41
Challenging the fuzz in an unmarked van
an angry wolf 10 June, 2019 10:41
Basically to cut a long story short, I have received a notice of intended prosecution for doing 58 MPH in a 40 PMH from a van with a laser which I dispute. As I am currently on 9 points , a ban obviously awaits but my argument is that the car was doing 58 MPH in a 60 zone with the police van parked right next to the change in speed limit sign. At what stage do I ask the filth for photographic evidence and has anyone experience of this? On a single carriage way the limit is 60 which was where the alleged offence occurred but an unmarked van of vermin that never come out for muggings rapes and assaults taking pictures parked right next to the black and white sign indicating the speed limit increase has made it complicated.

Re: Challenging the fuzz in an unmarked van
Cheshire wolf 10 June, 2019 11:36
I’m afraid they stitch you up whatever you do Angry. I was driving home from a family party on a Sat night in Nov 2016, perfectly sober as I was going on holiday next day. When I returned from holiday I received a similar notice saying I had been caught doing 37mph in a 30 mph zone, and when I looked more closely I saw it was at 12:50am!!! It was close to my home and must have been a speed van as they often park there.
I was bloody furious as I felt they were setting out to catch party-goers on their way home. I emailed the local Police Commissioner but he offered nothing but Road safety quotes. I requested a photo but it only showed my number plate and the speed I was doing. I also asked where I was caught but they won’t say unless you plead not guilty !! An absolute stitch up which cost me £100 plus 3 points and all that implies with Insurance renewals.
If the Police come knocking on my door asking for assistance they will be told exactly where to go as we never see any of them in our town fighting any crimes, and I’m sick of this easy way of raising funds.

Re: Challenging the fuzz in an unmarked van
an angry wolf 10 June, 2019 15:51
Exactly Cheshire, the reality is on British roads its virtually impossible with the best will in the world to keep to every speed limit ad all this is basically a stealth tax. If as a driver I see a 60 MPH sign 100 metres ahead and accelerate to around that speed metres before reaching it, it's hardly the same as a boy racer screeching around with a cap back to front. The worst are the non car drivers who are often holier than tho types that state motorists doing 31 MPH in a 30 should be banned etc. Can you imagine if you stuck to every single limit on every road never daring to go 71 on a motorway for eg? You would probably create accidents and incur road rage on a daily basis with all the tail gaters. The worst of all this is my 9 points accrued so far are 6 due to a mistake from an insurance company putting the wrong driver on a policy which I have accepted ( grudgingly ) and a bored cop standing by my car in a supermarket carpark giving me 3 points for a tiny tyre cut which was barely visible.


I'm sick to death of the war on motorists and driving now has become a chore rather than a pleasure feeling harassed by the authorities like police who cut down crime figures on car drivers instead of targeting violence/ sexual assault etc. Of course if I say all this in a magistrates court I will be viewed as not showing "respect " etc with a sermon on how speed kills. Bad driving kills , and doing 58 less than 100 metres before a 60 mph sign is not dangerous and never will be.

Re: Challenging the fuzz in an unmarked van
Sheffield WWFC 11 June, 2019 17:15
I did have something similar a bit ago with the camera van parked round a bend tucked in between parked cars. Fortunately I was only 38 in a 30 with no points so was able to accept the speed awareness course.

I think your best course of action is to return the NIP admitting that you were the driver and also enclose a letter to the Chief Constable setting out the circumstances that you accelerated slightly before entering the 60 zone and asking if a Speed Awareness Course could be considered on this occasion (assuming you haven't attended one in the last 3 years). If this is refused (as is likely) you can expect a summons with 4-6 points and a fine which would lead to a ban for maybe 6 months. Presumably that might affect your livelihood which you can also mention in the letter. This is a real @#$%& and I can't see you getting out of it unless they agree to the SAC which I think is probably unlikely.

If you check your licence it is only points in the last 3 years from the date of this offence that are considered (they do show on your licence for longer than this but are not considered after 3 years). That is worth checking. If you only have 6 points in the last 3 years you might avoid the ban and be offered a fixed penalty notice.

I think you are technically guilty so would be wasting your time asking for the photos/video evidence. The police will only show this at the court hearing if you plead not guilty and a not guilty plea removes your ability to ask for leniency or hardship to be considered. What a @#$%& this is. Not sure how good you are at speaking up for yourself in a hostile courtroom. Maybe consider instructing a solicitor, especially if you are covered for legal cover in your car/home insurance or breakdown cover.

Re: Challenging the fuzz in an unmarked van
an angry wolf 11 June, 2019 22:08
I agree with much of what you write Sheffield and the plan is to send of pictures with the NIP form which I received a few days ago showing the circumstances which precipitated the increase in speed to 58 MPH with the close proximity of the 60 MPH sign. I suspect as you state, it won't make any difference and a summons will arrive with a subsequent ban.

The reality is , these type of "offences" aren't dangerous - how can any sane person think increasing speed less than 50 metres before a change in speed zone on a long stretch of road with no junctions/hazards and in this case cars is dangerous? Of course if I said this in court, the magistrates who are basically normally a bunch of bored retired laypeople would cite the precious law and the dangers of speed whilst driving off from court probably exceeding the speed limit themselves. The police see motorists as an easy target because they can just sit in a car for hours pointing a little laser instead of actually getting out on the streets and doing what they should be doing. It's very easy to rattle off fatality statistics caused by speeding but how do those stack up vs deaths through stabbings/ assaults etc? I'd go so far to suggest continually watching hedges and bushes for a bored cop clutching a laser is far more dangerous for drivers than them focusing on the road and using their own judgement to sensibly moderate speed according to the road conditions.


Organisations like the police/courts aren't really beacons of justice as they claim but essentially money grabbing institutions setting up overly zealous laws to entrap people going about their daily lives for their own personal gain. This is epitomised by politicians who create the umbrella of laws these wretched organisations work within.. you only have to turn the news on to see the shambles of Brexit, multi faced politicians promoting their own agenda to stand for tory leadership interested only in their own gains rather than the so called "good of the people". We now have a farcical situation of many tories admitting to snorting cocaine in order to lose their grey dour image and be seen as "one of the lads" - these are the people running the country yet expect us all to be in awe of the law and respect every facet of it. Society is essentially a sham but the sensible just play the game and I will be representing myself in court with the necessary "contrition " and mantra of how much I respect police and endeavour to keep to a 40 MPH zone purely because some shitbag drunk as a skunk in his little audi crashed there years ago creating a blackspot meaning every other driver has to suffer.


The pompous asses who are rigid with speed limits are either not car drivers, lying hypocrites or have pile ups a mile long behind them driving like Miss Daisy. We all know the good old judges will be tutting at offenders before them yet Id bet every penny I have each and everyone of them breaks the speed limits daily. In parts of the country you can now get 3 points for going 71 MPH on a motorway so very soon driving will become either a choice of battling daily bouts of road rage from people behind you or being banned every other year.

Re: Challenging the fuzz in an unmarked van
Ivybridge Wolf 12 June, 2019 20:24
Quote:
an angry wolf
The pompous asses who are rigid with speed limits are either not car drivers, lying hypocrites or have pile ups a mile long behind them driving like Miss Daisy. We all know the good old judges will be tutting at offenders before them yet Id bet every penny I have each and everyone of them breaks the speed limits daily. In parts of the country you can now get 3 points for going 71 MPH on a motorway so very soon driving will become either a choice of battling daily bouts of road rage from people behind you or being banned every other year.

Any idea where Angry?

Sadly, I think you're fighting a losing battle on this one. Income generation in the guise of safety. We have a couple of areas where we have mobile Police camera vans regularly wait just behind a 60 to 30 zone and given the roads, it is about catching drivers rather than road safety. Not that that is a defense! A specific road, for all Wolves fans to be aware of (if not already and when travelling up from South to the match) is the A449 Worcester to Kidderminster. I often see police placed strategically in areas where the speed drops from 60 or 50 to 30. Beware! Plus the multiple cameras too.

Not sure what is happening elsewehere, one of my bug-bears is the seeming proliferation of the 'average speed checks'. Once the bain of Motorway road works only, they are growing! We have two going into Plymouth City centre, one going down the steep Haldon Hill on the A38 appraching Exeter, roads which I use regularly. Additionally, I drove down to the Lizard at the weekend and was amazed to that in at least two small towns / villages, all of the old speed cameras have been replaced by average speed cameras.



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Re: Challenging the fuzz in an unmarked van
an angry wolf 12 June, 2019 21:28
[www.petrolprices.com]

On a forum I use , there are people who claim to have tickets going at 62 in a 60 and I can personally testify to getting a ticket for doing 64 in a 60 which is less than the 10% plus 2 MPH in 2016 which is the normal guidelines for police prosecution. I was offered a speed awareness course to avoid points- it's barking mad


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