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Discussion started by Lupinehowler , 26 November, 2018 22:18
Lupinehowler 26 November, 2018 22:18
Yesterday’s match and result highlighted the naivety of trying to play the same system week in and week out. Nunos chosen game plan is now enshrined throughout the club and is adhered to by all the different age groups. This is great in terms of wide understanding but fails to recognise that premiership managers will always seek to nullify our setup and expose any weaknesses. This was highlighted yesterday by a very mediocre Huddersfield team who merely adopted a shape that reduced us to second best in every position.
Good teams learn to adapt and change depending on the challenge in front of them, we seem to be unwilling or incapable of change and it will be to our detriment if we don’t learn our lessons quickly.

Re: Naivety
Cheshire wolf 26 November, 2018 22:30
I've just made a comment to that effect on the Neves thread LH.

I think we have been sussed out and beaten by Watford and Huddersfield now, and the likes of Cheslea and Liverpool should have no problem dealing with our style of pay after studying it - which they undoubtedly will. I would like to see Gibbs-White given a start as an extra player in midfield, possibly trying a flat back four and dropping Doherty. I thought he was lazy for the first goal and generally had a bad day at the office.

I also think it is highly unclear exactly who is supposed to be playing as a central striker for us as Jimenez seems to spend as much time on the wings as Cavaleiro and Costa. Cavaleiro was another one who had an awful game yesterday

Re: Naivety
Julius Cesar Wolf 27 November, 2018 19:47
I beg to differ...somewhat.

I don´t think there is something wrong with Nunos ground philosophy.There is nothing wrong in trying to dominate games and trying to implement the basics for this with the team.
We are in an ugly five games streak,but we need to remember that we haven´t had the rub of the green of late either.I certainly didn´t see us doing many wrongs in the matches against Brighton and Gunners for example.The way I see it with just a touch of luck,and of course better goal scoring capacity we should be on 21 points by now..and I think everyone would have been happy with that.

This said,there has to be some room for variation within the limits of play set by to speak.We,as a team,has to be able to adapt to tactics a la Wagners Sunday.I wouldn´t even call it a plan B,just some solid counter to a tactic everyone could see would pose problems for us ten minutes in.Football is to a certain degree a game of chess,and to be real succesfull one needs a little bit of variation at least.

In Nuno and the team I trust,and I am not only saying that because it sounds good.I do believe that the principal path he is taking us is the right one,and it is one that will benefit us in the future as well.

Last..players need to do their part.They didn´t do that Sunday,and when that happens it doesn´t matter what tactics you use.Not if you´re not a top six club anyways.We cannot afford jogging back a la Doc for Mooys first goal for example.We are years from getting away with things like that in Premier League.

Bouncebackability counts.We win at Cardiff and we are back on track.Huddersfield wasn´t any worse than Forest at The Mol last glorious season for example.

We need a striker.

Re: Naivety
` 28 November, 2018 10:30
I'm not buying this "managers have sussed out our style " crap that's put forward by the media and large sections of the fanbase. Most teams have only one style of football which is pass the ball, close opponents down and score as many goals as they can. This adjusting styles mantra normally involves teams simply putting an extra body upfront when chasing a game or putting an extra defender on when defending lol. The idea that managers watch wolves looking at an apparent unique style and adjust to compensate is ridiculous quite frankly. I can guarantee if team identities were hidden, none of these so called pundits on the radio/tv discussing styles could determine one style from another apart from how well a team plays which is determined by motivation and quality of player. If nuno had the same players McCarthy had, I doubt you would find any difference in styles regardless of a fancy sounding name or long beard.

The reason our "style" was lauded by the media earlier in the season was because we were playing well... for whatever reason that changed against Huddersfield but it's nothing to do with being "sussed out". The week before we nearly beat Arsenal at the Emirates and I expect us to get a result at Cardiff. Football has ridiculously fine lines with people trying to over analyse a sport where anyone can beat anyone on a given day and nothing to do with being sussed out like we are the target of an MI5 probe from scouts hiding in raincoats perched in the eaves of the Billy Wright exposing us.

One of the reasons I've lost interest in football is due to the over analysis that goes on.. United drew to palace last weekend and calls were coming in screaming for Mourinho to be booted out yet the week before he was lauded as a great manager turning the ship around beating Juventus. The Mix is full of cry babies soiling themselves at being sussed out- beat Cardiff and they are labelled pant wetters again with Nuno a God. You see this up and down the country with teams/clubs/managers due to supporters not fully understanding what they are watching on any given day with 22 men kicking a ball about where anything can happen finding the necessity to quantify the sport as more logical/scientific than it actually is.

Re: Naivety
` 28 November, 2018 10:46
Incidentally this is one of the reasons bookies make so much money from football when people look at league tables and think how can a team that drew away to Arsenal , drew to United/city lose at home to a side that hasnt scored more than one away goal since d1ck turpin roamed the highways. It happens all the time in every league in the world week after week and there is no sussing out going on- it's the nature of the beast that's football.

Re: Naivety
Julius Cesar Wolf 28 November, 2018 17:12
I was actually thinking about this phenomena,Angry.

If someone outside football with no previous knowledge of the nature of the sport where to analyse why eleven guys simultaneously underperforms in a game,I think that person would scratch his head until becoming bald.

It is little logical reason why eight or nine players in a team subpars in a specific game,but it happens in football time and time again and the only certain thing is that this will continue to occur.

It´s pretty hard to explain why,though.

Re: Naivety
` 28 November, 2018 19:51
Julius Cesar Wolf
I was actually thinking about this phenomena,Angry.
If someone outside football with no previous knowledge of the nature of the sport where to analyse why eleven guys simultaneously underperforms in a game,I think that person would scratch his head until becoming bald.

It is little logical reason why eight or nine players in a team subpars in a specific game,but it happens in football time and time again and the only certain thing is that this will continue to occur.

It´s pretty hard to explain why,though.

It's undoubtedly motivation/mindset of player as wolves play the same team and the same tactics every match so if there was ever evidence of the tactics myth being exposed than our club is it. MSM (main stream media) wouldnt have much to talk about if they all accepted that this was the case as instead of fancy diagrams showing tactics,they would be speaking to the gfs/wives of the players as a better gauge to how well the team would perform if they got their leg over or not etc with the state of their mind. You only have to look at Real Madrid under our old potential manager Lopetegui who were pumped every otherweek before he was sacked- granted they lost Ronaldo but these are the European champions losing at home to Levante.

I like nuno but lets face it, does anyone really believe listening to his interviews he conducts great indepth tactical briefs with players. Many premiership managers interviewed can barely speak a words English with ridiculous exaggerated accents yet we are expected to believe they all become fluent in the dressing rooms at their respective clubs in the intricacies of tactical acumen with Bob from London phoning radio 5 live eulogising over a formation of team X. I've seen in the past managers use translators in the past during interviews and don't believe for a minute any tactics they employ are better or worse than any other manager. At the end of the day, just how many ways can you have for trying to kick a ball between two sticks with 11 men?

Re: Naivety
chicagowolf 30 November, 2018 13:30
Knowing what the other team is going to do is one thing; preventing them doing it quite another. For instance when Scunthorpe plays Man City's first team (admittedly an unlikely event, but work with me here) the coach explains what Man City might do and after showing a few videos, they agree to mark DeBruin abd Aguira out of the game. Ludicrous? Of course. The quality gap is too great, which of course explains why newly promoted teams are usually the favorites for relegation.
So I agree with Angry that formation is a minor issue compared to quality and spirit. The latter was clearly absent in the Huddersfield game, but it is difficult to conclude that shuffling the formation would have changed that much.
Nuno says that he has seen the reaction he wants from Wolves. Hope he is right because Colin will be relishing this one.

Re: Naivety
Julius Cesar Wolf 30 November, 2018 17:40
It will turn towards better results for us.I am absolutely certain of it.We have too much quality in the starting eleven not to.

If it´s time against Cardiff tonight I have no idea.A singular match in football is a singular match.

Over the longer term though,I feel no fear.

I continue to think we will finish around 10-12 this season and we will continue to build the club and the squad to even bigger and better things in the years to come.

I´ve been a fan since 1977.The need to wear shades cause the future looks so bright has never been bigger during those 40+ years.

We must be able to deal with the occasional bumps in the road meantime.We,as fans,should be well suited for that.I mean..Huddersfield Sunday wasn´t exactly Chorley or Aldershot!

Sack The Bhattis!!

Forever Wolves.

Re: Naivety
` 30 November, 2018 18:01
I fully expect us to beat Cardiff, it's all swings and roundabouts. The post match radio phone in will be inundated with Cardiff fans screaming for Colins head with his dinosaur tactics despite it having no relevance what so ever. The simple fact is we have better players than Cardiff and should win no matter whether we play 4-4-2 , 3-5-2 or the xmas tree formation with a little fairy upfront. If we lose and more importantly if we lose with a Huddersfield type of display, it will be either down to ridiculously bad luck with red cards/pen decisions or something seriously wrong in the dressing room and nothing tactical colin or nuno gets up to.

Re: Naivety
Julius Cesar Wolf 07 December, 2018 22:27
Former Sweden and Norway..manager Lars Lagerbäck just said that managers influence on results is 10 percent max.

Dunno personally.Some managers tends to work better under special circumstances..for example Big Fat Sam at Bolton and so on.

It didn´t hurt us in the Chelsea game to go with what was an effective five man midfield.

One cannot throw tactics completely out of the window I think.

Re: Naivety
Lupinehowler 08 December, 2018 15:25
It begs the question, are tactics of any advantage in any sport.

Re: Naivety
` 08 December, 2018 21:14
It begs the question, are tactics of any advantage in any sport.

Chess perhaps lol . I see Chelsea have beaten City today showing pretty much what we know already- anyone can beat anyone with home advantage counting as much more of a factor towards a result than anything bar maybe ability of players in a team.

Man city are regarded as the best team in England with a home record of 8 wins 0 draws and no defeats having scored 30 goals. Away from home the same team with the same players and same tactics this season has a record of 5 wins 2 draws and a defeat but with a telling goal tally of 15 goals after the same number of games. Simply changing the fans allegiance round a pitch halves the number of goals a team scores for the best side in the country and after a full season virtually every team in every league in the world will show huge differences in home/away record. The same pitch dimensions, same players and same tactics. The evidence illustrating how much of football is mental is beyond doubt.

Re: Naivety
` 08 December, 2018 21:24
If people remember when we got promoted in 2003, we had lescott / Murray out for much of that season and one of the worst squads in premier league history under Jones. We still managed to beat United who were top of the league at home , beat city, draw to Liverpool amassing 7 wins at home out of 19 but managed if my memory serves me right the grand total of... 0 wins away from home. Under McCarthy I recall us beating City, United, Chelsea etc at home but how many big teams did we beat away .. I can only think of Liverpool who were under Hodgson mid table that season.

This season we beat Chelsea but had the ground been Stamford Bridge with the same players , same tactics we would have got turned over. In order of priority I'd list in terms of impact on result

1) Ability

2) Home/ away advantage

3) Motivation of players

and at a very distant 4th place tactics

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