What do you think? You can have your say by posting below.
If you do not already have an account Click here to Register.

It's pityful, it's shocking and quite frankly, it's disgusting behaviour from arguably one of the best products of our youth system. I thought it was quite upsetting when he left for Madrid, he had so many years to offer Liverpool when he left, when change was on the horizon with new ambition and a new Manager. It's just a pity that we still had the same old Chief Executive who let us have our pants pulled down on every player purchase and sale we made under him - weak and tame in the transfer market. And once he had made sure his club got a pittence for him, it's poetic justice that we won the Champions League the very season that he did.

But having said that, when he joined Newcastle, I did want him to come home, was willing to forgive what he had done. I was happy to see him playing, and thought he might just be welcome back again. But he really has shown his true colours. I thought I was just having a really bad dream when I saw the news. Clearly there are no real football players left - England Career, Money, and Michael Owen are all Michael Owen cares about. If he wants regular first team football, then surely he's not likely to get it at Old Trafford at the expense of Dimitar Berbatov? Or even more unlikely, Wayne Rooney? That's just a total contradiction. The fact that it took him a nano-second (he said it himself) to decide when Fergie took him for a breakfast date, shows that he has no loyalty, no love, no respect and definitely no honour - MICHAEL OWEN: Legend 1996 to 2004, Has-Been 2004 to 2009, LOSER 2009 and forever more.

Taj mate ,he wanted to come back desperatley but Rafa wasnt interested .

Title should read 'Legend to loser!'

He will never be anything close to a legend. He was a good player for us and banged in some class goals, but he was never enough of a team player and suffered too many injuries with us to be regarded as anything close to a great. It's no coincidence that we have improved as a team since he left. Obviously his conduct during his final years at the club and since he left has meant that he will never be particularly liked by the Anfield faithful. He's a turncoat and a greedy individual as far as I'm concerned.

i nearly cried when i found out that michael owen had signed for Manure..
my heart was blown in 10.000 pieces,
Legend, in my eyes and heart he will always be a Legend.

Guy is an absolute LOSER IMHO. An ex-Liverpool player sign for United?? .. I don't care if Rafa asked him to strip naked and run around Melwood, then told him to p-ss off, he's disrespected everything our club values. WE ARE LIVERPOOL FOOTBALL CLUB, and he has the audacity to join United? .. forget wages, forget the playing career, he should have taken into account the prestige of our club and made the right decision. He could have played for a few other premier clubs, but once again, thinks about number 1, himself. Actually jumped at the chance to sign for United, I can't believe it. The cheek to stand there smiling with their shirt on and scarf above his head?

Turncoat, and definate loser.

Lloyd.

The day he left liverpool high and dry for madrid, he sold his soul. Agreed with many that he is good but not one who we hold our hearts too. If he had stayed and banged even lesser goals he would have remained a reds forever, a legend and not a leg-end.

HE IS JUST A NORMAL PLAYER . HE WAS GOOD FINISHER , BUT HE LOST HIS PACE AND HIS FINISHING IS NO LONG THAT GOOD .
TODAY IS 2009 NOT 1999 LETS LIVE THE PRESENT. FOR HIM MANUTD IS GOOD TO PLAY WITH COMPARED TO NEWCASTLE. HE CANT PLAY WITH THE TEAM HE LOVED BECAUSE WE DONT NEED HIM. WE HAVE QUALITY PLAYERS AND WE BEAT MANUTS 1-4 WITHOUT HIM. WHO NEED HIM??? DONT LET FERGUSON PLAY HIS MIND. FORGET THIS PLAYER THAT WE MADE HIM HERO. BUT HE IS NO LONGER THE OWEN HE PRETENDED TO STILL BE. OWEN- TAKE THIS- YOU ARE FINISHED.

God I am so sick of listening to this tripe from you scousers

How you lot can say that Owen was no where near a legend for your club is a joke. You could have had him back on 2 seperate occassions but he doesnt fit in with Benitez's plans, plain and simple, Owen didnt turn you lot down to join us, You rejected him, Ferguson saw an opportunity and took advantage

You would do the same, why effectively end any top class status by joining Hull or Stoke...when you could try and re-ignite your career under the greatest manager the premier league has ever had?

I also recall a time when you lot where ready to take Gabby Heinze off us with open arms, Oh and lets not forget you taking an old united boy by the name of Paul Ince on board after we had let him go to Inter....its exactly the same thing

He's right, you know.

We can't do anything about where the loser Owen goes.

Just glad it's not to us after dropping us in it twice. The only person little Michael cares about is the one that stares back at him from the mirror. That is one "quality" which will not endear him to Benitez.

However, I guess if you can't get anyone else to sign for your club, it's worth the gamble.

...the bitterness is staggering and your deliberate attempt to mask it with cr*p like "he's a traitor", "he's a money-grabber", "he's arrogent" blah blah blah for me is just laughable

You guys would have accepted him back in a heart-beat had Benitez been willing to bring him back

"Had Benitez been willing to bring him back".

There we go, after days of ponsing around, we've finally hit the nail on the head. When Owen left Anfield for the loot of Real Madrid leaving Benitez about 5 minutes to find someone to replace him Benitez sort of rather understandably took a bit of a dislike to him.

When the penny finally dropped that, in spite of said loot, sitting on the bench at Real Madrid wasn't all it was cracked up to be, Owen decided he wanted to come back. Benitez remembered the previous shiiiiiiiite little Michael had dropped him in and he said no.

He's still saying no and we still back him. Like you support SAF and his limitless supply of money we support Rafa and his - by necessity - somewhat shrewder business decisions.

Youve got to laugh! "limitless supply of money"!

Liverpool's and Benitez's net spend is bigger than Uniteds and Fergies, by quite a margin. This is a fact.

[www.transferleague.co.uk]

Wow, lies, damn lies and statistics!

Actually, it says "to date" and thus if you take the Ronaldo transfer out the figures are actually pretty similar.

Not to mention that ginsoak has only had to top up each season where Rafa has had to build from bottom to top, and his team is under half the cost of ginsoaks I'd imagine.


Rafa has spent 80 million net excluding Johnson, magnificent job imo, and better than any of the other top 4.

Maybe Arsenal could be discounted but they pay really big money for youngsters, and also have a higher wage bill than us. Plus, for a manager to have been at a club 13 years they should be doing a lot better trophy wise.

As far as I'm concerned we've got the best out of the top 4 managers and I wouldn't swap him for any of the others, and God help the other three if he ever gets big money to spend.

---

---------------------------------
“Liverpool Football club exists not to make money, it exists to win trophies and be a source of pride for its supporters. It serves no other purpose.�. Bill Shankly

It is a shame to see the physical state he is now in but I frankly couldn't care less what he does for the rest of his career. Carra and Steve G were prepared to give Rafa time to sort Liverpool out whilst Owen couldn't get out quick enough and it demonstrated what truly motivates him. I bet he thought all his Christmas' had come at once when ole purple nose called him up because there was never a chance of him going anywhere else than a top 6-10 side such as Everton or Villa (at best) before that.

The reaction of the Old Trafford (Guildford) Massive is quite laughable.

From an ability point of view, I wouldn't have been suprised if John Barnes had signed him at Tranmere.

Disgraceful, self-serving, traiterous, egotistic. But, most importantly, sadly mistaken - took a step down in 2005 and it doesn't look like he'll ever come back up again.

Why should the Ronaldo transfer be taken out? Ferguson made a £68m profit (as well as countless trophies) on him by helping the lad become one of the best in the world. Fantastic business.
And even if you take the Ronaldo sale out, you said "limitless supply of money", when in fact "the figures are actually pretty similar", - like you said. So who's lying now?



Not to mention that ginsoak has only had to top up each season where Rafa has had to build from bottom to top, and his team is under half the cost of ginsoaks I'd imagine.
"top up"? We finished 3rd 2 years in a row (04 and 05), and that team is almost unrecognisable from todays team. Ferguson also had to compete with Abramovich's millions, and eventually took the title off them. Our "limitless" funds were nothing compared to what Chelsea were throwing around.

Maybe Arsenal could be discounted but they pay really big money for youngsters, and also have a higher wage bill than us. Plus, for a manager to have been at a club 13 years they should be doing a lot better trophy wise. To moan that United and Ferguson apparently having bigger resources is one thing, but to claim that Benitez has done a better job than Wenger is laughable! Do you ever say a bad word about Benitez?! Wenger's budget has been alot smaller than Liverpools, he's overseen the building of a new 60000 stadium, some fantastic football, and 3 premiership trophies. So he's not won anything in 3/4 years (neither has Benitez), - there's only so much you can do with such limited funds. Benitez does not have that excuse

"top up"? We finished 3rd 2 years in a row (04 and 05), and that team is almost unrecognisable from todays team. Ferguson also had to compete with Abramovich's millions, and eventually took the title off them. Our "limitless" funds were nothing compared to what Chelsea were throwing around.


That's right, top up. He already had enough high priced players mixed with a great crop of homegrowns to have a very strong squad. He only had to keep topping up the team each season to compete. He paid out a lot of money on duds as well as great players. Rafa has NEVER had that luxury and even now our squad is much lower priced than yours.
He didn't take the title off them any more than he knocked us off our perch. Circumstances for other clubs unexpectedly changed and ginsoak was able to take advantage. No problem with that, just let's have it how it was. He NEVER BEAT KENNY TO THE TITLE and he NEVER BEAT JOSE TO IT, simple as that.

To moan that United and Ferguson apparently having bigger resources is one thing, but to claim that Benitez has done a better job than Wenger is laughable! Do you ever say a bad word about Benitez?! Wenger's budget has been alot smaller than Liverpools, he's overseen the building of a new 60000 stadium, some fantastic football, and 3 premiership trophies. So he's not won anything in 3/4 years (neither has Benitez), - there's only so much you can do with such limited funds. Benitez does not have that excuse

I think I might have said a bad word about Rafa once but it was so inconsequential to the big picture I just can't remember what it was.
IMO he is better than Wenger already but fpr people like you we'll see the proof of that in another 8 years. Wenger has never won a European trophy, nor a title in his own country. Rafa has done both, twice. Overseen the building of a stadium? FFS, you sound like an Arsenal fan. His teams have been the best footballing team since the Prem began but what have his 'youngsters' won? He has had loads of money over his time at Arsenal and he too has had some big money duds.

Rafa has spent around 15 million a season, mostly trading up and has done a fantastic job whether you like or believe it is immaterial, it's a fact.

---

---------------------------------
“Liverpool Football club exists not to make money, it exists to win trophies and be a source of pride for its supporters. It serves no other purpose.�. Bill Shankly



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009:07:09:22:01:12 by Reds.

he NEVER BEAT JOSE TO IT How do you mean?!

but what have his 'youngsters' won Errm, if we're gonna go down that road, what has Benitez's team won? 1 Champions League (with largely Houllier's team)...and 1 FA Cup. 2 trophies in 5 years! Ginsoak must be having sleepless nights!

Overseen the building of a stadium? I dont take much interest in Arsenal but I imagine Wenger's spending was limited because of the building of the Emirates, so of course it matters

He has had loads of money over his time at Arsenal and he too has had some big money duds. Of course he has, but not as many as Benitez. And loads of money? His net spend is clearly less than a load of other clubs in the Premiership, - that is a fact

see yet again this topic seems to have gone towards what was....

Michael Owen is/was/always will be a great scorer of goals, he may of had his best years with you lot but we could say the same about Ronaldo, when is he ever gonna score 42 goals in one season?

...But at the same time, who's to say he won't? who's to say under sir alex, Owen wont score 30 goals next season, you of all people should know owen is capable of tht if he is put amongst the right players, you lot should know the talent he possesses...

you just wont achknowledge it because he is now at man utd, I wonder how many of you will still be here if he becomes an instant success, and i also wonder how many of you will congratulate his comeback from adversatie? I wonder.....considering he is a product of your youth

He didn't take the title off them any more than he knocked us off our perch. Circumstances for other clubs unexpectedly changed and ginsoak was able to take advantage. No problem with that, just let's have it how it was. He NEVER BEAT KENNY TO THE TITLE and he NEVER BEAT JOSE TO IT, simple as that.


In a nutshell.

C'mon guys, first thought that pops into your head ^^^

That AIG looks as ugly now as when you first got it.

That Owen very much suits the shirt.

---

---------------------------------
“Liverpool Football club exists not to make money, it exists to win trophies and be a source of pride for its supporters. It serves no other purpose.�. Bill Shankly

he NEVER BEAT JOSE TO IT How do you mean?!

Exactly what it says........He never beat/took the title from either King Kenny nor Jose Mourhino.

---

---------------------------------
“Liverpool Football club exists not to make money, it exists to win trophies and be a source of pride for its supporters. It serves no other purpose.�. Bill Shankly

Well he did take the title off Jose.
Mourinho won it in 06, Fergie in 07.
Of course, the referees handed it to us like they always do didnt they?!

Sorry my mistake, that just leaves the King who he could never get the better of then, fantastic..

---

---------------------------------
“Liverpool Football club exists not to make money, it exists to win trophies and be a source of pride for its supporters. It serves no other purpose.�. Bill Shankly

Oh well Ferguson will just have to live with having more league titles, european cups, fa cups, etc etc etc

Thats just it Rob he cant live with being in Bob Paisleys shadow ,tis what drives him on

Fergies got more league titles and more fa cups, (1 less European Cup). Fergie edges it imo

23 fecking years against 9? Behave yourself dolt.

Paisley piiisses all over ginsoak. 3 European Cups in 9 years against 2 in 23? Uncle Bob was, and always will be, unbeatable because of what he did in such a short time. Ginsoak hangs on and hangs on just to equal the ONLY manager in the world to ever win 3 European Cups because he knows that's the benchmark. Even if he does it, he'll never equal Bob Paisley in stature.

---

---------------------------------
“Liverpool Football club exists not to make money, it exists to win trophies and be a source of pride for its supporters. It serves no other purpose.�. Bill Shankly

League titles are what matter. It is the competition that has stayed constant from Paisley's era until ginsoaks era. Its impossible to compare European Cups with Champions Leagues. So 11 v 6? No contest really is it?! So ginsoak has had a little more time (he also started his job in worse circumstances) - there's no guarantee that Paisley would have won a single trophy if he'd gone on for another 14 years so its all ifs, coulds and maybes isnt it?
Just like when you said that there was no guarantee that the Busby Babes would have won a European Cup but for Munich. Sometimes managers can stay too long and run out of ideas, - just like Clough did. To ginsoaks's credit he's built 3/4 title winning teams which is an extraordinary thing to do

I doubt ginsoak is particularly bothered about Paisley's record (as impressive as it is). He's got enough on his plate in trying to live up to Sir Matt's standards to be honest. That and making United the most successful club in the country, which would become reality IF we get to 19 before you.

What did the good knight of the realm say on taking over at manu ? " Im gonna knock them off their f*cking perch" . 23 years on and he still trying.

Our individual histories are similar yet very different in many ways, but in terms of era, what can anyone say that hasnt already been discussed?

...now if anybody would be willing to agree, how about we get back on topic, and talk about the now and not the then as seems all topics concerning Liverpool FC seems to drift towards?....

Michael Owen is the topic so somebody please answer my last post objectively and without the words "5 times", "bob paisley" and "ginsoak", please am begging you

Quote:

23 fecking years against 9? 2 in 23?

Quote:

23 years on and he still trying.

And here I was thinking that you two were bright. Ferguson started at ManUtd when English clubs were banned from Europe for a further 4 years... and who's fault was that? Yes, thats right, Liverpool's fans.

So you see it isnt 23 years because how can you win European cups when a bunch of @#$%& fans from Liverpool prevented us and all English clubs from doing so?

Iforgot manu fans never invaded pitches or were involved in any bother. Even if we wernt banned in the initial 4 years of his management off the top of my head i dont think you would of qualified .

Manutd4life

Will you do me a favour and stop being such a @#$%&!!! this topic that you made made btw, was about michael owen

why dont you grow up, stop bein a child, if you want banter at least be sensible about it

Im a man u fan by the way

Well said Ram ,theres a number of manu fans that visit us ,no problem at all . Always up for sensible debate ,banter as long as respect is shown . Good and healthy to have another fans perspective especially from our foes down the east lancs.

ram rod,

I simply pointed out that English clubs were banned from Europe when Ferguson took over. Nothing wrong with that, but what you said has been taken on board.

Btw, Owen has scored his first United goal on his debut.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009:07:18:14:12:55 by ManUnited4Life.

I was refering to the fact that you keep putting uneccessary comments and try to dangle bait for no reason

You want banter, then do it the way adults do it

Still kissing @#$%& I see even after i pointed out that it wasnt meant to cause an argument.

Pity for you that these particular Liverpool supporters wont show you the same courtesy. Anyway, why do you even care?

I seem to recall that you posted a rather long message on the other Owen thread and the reply was a simple Nearly the summer holidays, GMRR. I guess we'll have you on here even more now, and these are the Liverpool supporters you're trying to impress? I was thinking why it was even necessary to point out that you were a United supporter, now I know.

ManUnited4Life, your comments don't particaly surprise me. And as for these Liverpool supporters on here as you say you couldn't be any further from the truth.

We are open minded, & give credit where it's due if we get the same treatment not comments copied off other ignorent supporters that won't be educated.

---

Manutd4life

You have just shot yourself in the foot

You claim I was tryin to impress these scousers, then your reference is my exception to their opinion of Owen?

oh dear, you know its people like you that give man u fans a bad name

I give banter, as you so un-noticably pointed out, but am also fair in discussion, their no point in tryin to make yourself look like a retard, a piece of advice you'd do well to take on board

^ You're defending them against a fellow United supporter so yes, I would say you're trying to impress them.

Quote:

oh dear, you know its people like you that give man u fans a bad name

I think its disgraceful that you think United fans have a bad name in the first place.

Quote:

their no point in tryin to make yourself look like a retard

A retard? Perhaps that person who said they're stuck with you since the summer holidays are approaching isnt too far from the truth since thats a word I havent heard since my school days. A word of advice, if you dont respond, I wont respond.

Far be it from to stop two manure fans from launchin handbags at each other but -------We were in your position as Englands top club for many years . Be proud of your achievments but other fans know the score and dont need their noses rubbed in it .Our clubs histories are similar in many ways ,respect should be given to our great victories and disasters in equal measure . Or is that to much to ask for ?

Absolutely not Carra, it isnt too much to ask. I do respect your club for what you have acheived. I know that many Liverpool fans respect United. Having a huge rivalry and the genuine hatred it just makes it easier to tear into your club on here. Apart from my clubs board, I only come on here too. I know that the people on here can handle anything I throw into topics and only really post on the ones that refer to United.

I know that im not the most mature poster on here, Im even ashamed at some of the@#$%&I say, but im not like this away from here. I was raised better than that.

GMRR is impressive though....... I quite like him.

---

---------------------------------
“Liverpool Football club exists not to make money, it exists to win trophies and be a source of pride for its supporters. It serves no other purpose.�. Bill Shankly

Manutd4life

When you come on an opposition board and talk of your club, you are immediately representing your view from the opposite side

Your stupid a** comments and deliberate bait waving are as immature as it gets, thats what gives our fans a bad name, stupid childish pr**ks like you

You want me to defend someone who uses a website to dangle the bait in front of opposition fans? ha iv heard some tripe in my time but that tops it all.

I come from st. Helens just outside of Liverpool, my family has manchester roots in it but is pre-dominantly st. helens, I have grown up there my entire life and know plenty of scousers, and have learned to be objective to their views on things

Yes I give banter to them, but I dont act like a child when I do it and deliberatly start topics about our team in order to get a reaction

"OWEN JOIN THE WORLD CLUB CHAMPIONS" "MAN UTD OFFICIALLY STILL WORLD CLUB CHAMPIONS"

God, do you realise how high school you sound?

^ Well thankyou for telling me where you're from. I dont care, but thankyou nevertheless. You know that calling me a @#$%& makes yourself look like a total moron, really not needed,

Quote:

"OWEN JOIN THE WORLD CLUB CHAMPIONS" "MAN UTD OFFICIALLY STILL WORLD CLUB CHAMPIONS" God, do you realise how high school you sound?

You just made yourself look like an uneducated illiterate twit. Do you have problems reading or something? How do you even mix up my username with the person who wrote that? The conspiracy theory will be that I have two accounts.

Hey, why dont you stop now? You're embarassing yourself. Telling me what to do is one thing, but insulting someone who is being calm just makes you look like an idiot.

i didnt say you made them did i?

i was refering to your comments on those threads, dragging the subject off topic in order to just act like a gimp and cause an argument

Quote:

Reds
GMRR is impressive though....... I quite like him.

So do I now...

---

Hes alright ---- For a woolie back

Quote:

grand master ram rod
i didnt say you made them did i?
i was refering to your comments on those threads, dragging the subject off topic in order to just act like a gimp and cause an argument

How soon you forget:

Quote:

this topic that you made made btw, was about michael owen

Again re-check the username and stop giving me @#$%& for my comments on an Internet forum it makes you look weak.

I guess when anyone else besides me changes the subject from Michael Owen to Ferguson and Paisley it isnt off-topic, right? I dont care if these threads go off-topic it isnt for me to decide and I know this will dent your ego but it isnt any of your business either.

Posted by: ManUnited4Life (IP Logged)
Date: 10 July, 2009 14:45

[images.mirror.co.uk]

C'mon guys, first thought that pops into your head ^^^

This was you original post, if that isnt tryin to provoke a reaction what is? the word is spamming

You then follow it up by referring to the same topic robbie brought up, no trace of discussion just abuse and spamming on a subject that has nothing to do with the original topic

...and again I never said it wasnt ok for just one person, check back over the thread, I repeatedly ask for ppl to get back on the subject instead of chatting on about the stuff that always seems to crop up in united-liverpool debates

Quote:

This was you original post, if that isnt tryin to provoke a reaction what is? the word is spamming

You do realise that Owen played for Liverpool and now plays for their biggest rivals, dont you? I wanted to see what everyone thought of him in a United top, why would you think I wanted to start an argument?

Quote:

I repeatedly ask for ppl to get back on the subject instead of chatting on about the stuff that always seems to crop up in united-liverpool debates

This isnt your forum, so I have no idea who you think you're telling people to stay on topic.

You say Im baiting people, funny thing is that you've caught the bait. So jokes on you. Anyway, I've finished discussing this with you.

Wow, this is better than Corrie. 2 mancs going at it. I give 2-1 on Ram Rod.

PS: Hi everybody

---

Didnt tell you what to say did I?

I just mearly ask that you (and everyone else) just stick to the topic because the continuous debate between who everyone believes is better - United or Liverpool, will never be answered because both sets of fans are too stuborn to accept each others successes

Every United-Liverpool debate filters right back down to the past and how equal both teams records are, its inevitable

Of course I know Owen played for Liverpool, thats why Im asking for the subject to stick witht the topic and not let it turn it yet another slanging match with both sets of fans trying to out-do one another with the old borin a** disussions

Your spot on rod mate, certain other debates we have with other supporters gets blown out of porportion & they believe
what they hear or read & you's get nowhere.

lets get back on track, have no prob with owen going to our
friendly rivals... when he was with us, yes he was awsesome & a hero amongst our fans when he was with us.

BUT, he left under a cloud & couldn't care less what our fans thought of him he left for other reasons & didn't say
thank you ta the fans that worshipped & stood behined him.


Dalglish, Liddle, Scott, rush, case, yeats st john etc...Legends you get my meaning Owen a legend no in my eyes

---

Alright Oz -- Catch anything in Spain?

Sorry Oz

---

Erm...MUFL.......just a minor point.

Everton are our biggest rivals, that's the game most Reds look for on the fixture list when it comes out, United after that.

Hiya Oz......

---

---------------------------------
“Liverpool Football club exists not to make money, it exists to win trophies and be a source of pride for its supporters. It serves no other purpose.�. Bill Shankly

Fair enough waspy, I respect you view

But would you say that Owen could prove to be the best signing of the summer, and even the steal of the summer if we are succesful with him? Given his reputation for scoring I shouldn't really be asking that but at the same time his injury record may prove costly

Rod

Owen has a good reputation as a goal scorer, been proven even at Newcy with poor service he made the best of it.

At yernited, I can now see him rubbing his hands theres nowhere else better then with your lot with a chance of getting better service...unless he was with us of course....

but will he get injured when you need him most...? most teams would worry. But don't think you will have any probs in that department.

---

May as well stick my two penneth in.
I find it hard to find any love or respect for Mickey for the way he left us. I also think that he will spend more time injured than playing. I also think that he is past his sell by date. Having said all of that he does have the poachers instinct and when he manages to stay injury free and feels he can be bothered to put in a meaningful performance, I think with the talent around him and the service he will receive, he will bag quite a few goals for Man U. Wether the goals will balance out with his no doubt extremely silly wage demands has to be seen. Now this could turn out to be a major cock up by SAF but it could also turn out to be a stroke of genius. Time will tell.

That's it, my opinion for what it's worth.

---

and so you see....with just a little bit of racional behaviour, a plain and simple, easy, and respectable discussion is born

Ram were not your problem mate

When did liverpool last win a league title!? virtually twenty years ago!

Jesus H Christ...you have been well and truly knocked off your perch carra!

Even crappy leeds utd have won a title more recently than l'pool!