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Born Without A Name - Part One
By Robbie Ashcroft April 3 2008
Born Without A Name - As a young boy in the 60’s I used to go to my Nan’s and Aunties houses quite often. The conversations were usually about members of the family from the past, the old family photograph album would come out. I used to sit quietly, and try and take it all in.
I always wanted to know where did we originate from and how long our family had lived in Liverpool. I decided to try and compile my family tree and after many years of visiting the main library in town, I managed to trace my forefathers to the Wavertree area into the 1760’s, then the records ran out.

As I grew up, I was told that my family had a special connection with Liverpool FC but could not quite rationalise the relationship. Having an enquiring mind I decided to try and find out as much as possible. Here is what I discovered. This is my family’s version of events that helped a little bit to create the Greatest Football Club the world has ever seen.

A number of years ago, I arranged for a “rare” family get together and asked people to tell me what they knew and what the connection was. I hid a tape recorder behind the couch, sat back and looked and learned.

My Great Grand father was Henry John Ashcroft, known as Harry Howard Ashcroft. He was born in the 1860’s and lived at Penrhyn Street (just off Scotland Road in Liverpool). He was married in 1889 at St Peters Church in Sackville Street. Everton.

He was a Wheelwright by trade and worked for the Mersey Docks and Harbour Board. Harry was a union conveyer for the MD&HB and was also president of No 2 branch of the National Union of Vehicle Builders. He was also Chairman of the Mersey Ward Conservative Association.

Harry was a very keen keep fit fanatic and that he helped set up junior football leagues for the youngsters. I was told that Harry and his associates thought that a City the size of Liverpool should have another football team with a name that was more representative of the area. Everton was and still is a small area within Liverpool and in those days was not readily associated as identifying with the City of Liverpool.

So a representative select team was formed, I understand that Harry used to arrange for players from other established local teams to join them (Bootle, Liverpool Ramblers, Stanley and Cambrian). The Liverpool representative teams used to get changed in the Sandon pub and used to play on Stanley Park and at Priory Road. Everton FC generally mocked the representative teams, as they thought the City could not support two football clubs and didn’t think that anything would come from it. Bootle was represented by Bootle FC, who where Everton’s largest local rivals.

They first played Everton when they played at Anfield in May 1885. This was seven years before Liverpool FC were formed. The game was attended by the Lord Mayor of Liverpool and played in aid of Stanley Hospital. Everton won 5.3. The Liverpool team played in white tops with dark shorts. Many charity games took place with the proceeds going to other worthy causes such as Bootle and Stanley Hospitals.

What we now know as Liverpool Association Football Club was born without a name and was weaned in a crisis of identity, John Houlding wanted to keep the name “Everton” at Anfield, and he refused to give up without a fight. The Football League overruled him in 1892 and the name stayed with the majority of its members. So what was the “new” club to be called? There was, after all a Liverpool Football Club, playing rugby union but Holding and his men decided that despite more protests, there would be a second Liverpool Football Club, the title “Association” was added to prevent confusion.

Once Everton where finally ejected out of Anfield for not paying the rent, John Holding had the unenviable task of finding a team worthy of his dreams. This was a perfect opportunity for the representative team to find a permanent home – a marriage made in heaven. I understand that during those very early years at Anfield, Liverpool really struggled to pay their overheads and that John Houlding actually waived some fees to help keep them afloat. This caused great bitterness and resentment from Everton, after all he had demanded a rent increase from Everton in the first place.

They applied for league status in the 2nd division of the Football League, this was seen with a certain amount of condemnation from “people” who regarded this as the action of “upstarts”. The Football League Management Committee requested that Liverpool should prove themselves worthy before any application would be considered.

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Re: Born Without A Name - Part One
Posted by: Geturdirkoutrafa (IP Logged)
Date: 2008:04:03:14:04:58

Have read this before but still a brilliant read.

I'll fav this page so as to read the rest of it.

Re: Born Without A Name - Part One
Posted by: Waspy (IP Logged)
Date: 2008:04:03:18:26:28

Really excelent read, great ta read articles like this about our history. Gives you an insight of the birth of our great club, can't wait for the next part.

http://pic13.picturetrail.com/VOL474/2295398/4499675/66729046.jpghttp://pic50.picturetrail.com/VOL474/2295398/16404575/275162403.jpg



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2008:04:03:19:54:22 by Waspy.

Re: Born Without A Name - Part One
Posted by: carra (IP Logged)
Date: 2008:04:03:19:48:58

Great read ,facinateing stuff

Born Without A Name - Part Two
Posted by: Mighty Reds (IP Logged)
Date: 2008:04:03:13:46:11

Born Without A Name - Part Two

During the 40’s 50’s 60’s and early 70’s my dad used to follow the Tricky Reds everywhere, it was a standard joke to ask “Where are you going to be this weekend?” and “Who are you”?

In 1953 – 54, however, the blow fell at last, they finished bottom of division one, and though some people thought they would make a hasty return, this was proved to be incorrect.

It took eight years for them to get out, and in seven of them the team was never below fourth in the table. Four times they finished in third position, and twice in fourth, before finally leading the way from start to finish in the 1961 – 62 season.

My Dad once told me that when Liverpool FC were in the second division he and his mates felt we were good enough to win promotion. He believed that the players felt they would get more money being near the top of the second division (bigger crowds) rather than perhaps mid table in the first division. Don’t forget players used to get a “bonus” the larger the crowd.

The second division years really got to my dad and his mates. Their Evertonian mates gave them constant “stick” about Liverpool being a second rate team, a second division club? Every time the Anfielders looked like gaining promotion or had put together a good run, the reply was always “second rate football from a second rate football club” or “we don’t talk about second division football, only first division”.

In the early 60’s when I was a young lad, I noticed that my Dad used to go missing most Saturday’s for hours and hours on end. He used to arrive home invariably in a very drunken state late at night and would tell me about this team called Liverpool Football Club and how they had played each match. It didn’t matter if this team had played great or poorly, he always came home in a calm, mellow but happy mood. I was always curious where he went and why it soothed him so much. Obviously being a clever sort I found out if I took an interest in Liverpool FC I would be able to stay up later than usual. I used to sit for hours listening him to pouring out his heart about Liverpool FC, the history, it’s high and low points.

He told me about another football club called Everton, its history and its supporters. He told me to give these people respect because they are just the same as you and me.

Subconsciously, I adopted my Dads philosophy to Liverpool Football Club, he never slagged off any of the players, even if they had had a nightmare game. I carry this opinion with me even now.

I really hated my elder brother because he is 8 years older than I am, and he was allowed to go to the matches before I did. We would wind each other up something rotten, but I knew one day I would get my chance to visit Anfield.

Despite our anger at each other (like most brothers) we decided to call a truce, as we were doing my Mums head in. We decided to turn our dislike for each other into something positive. We shared a bedroom together and decided together to turn it into a “shrine” for anything relating to Liverpool Football Club. Typhoo Tea football cards, pictures out of programmes, football scarfs adorned the walls.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008:04:05:11:21:02 by Reds.

Re: Born Without A Name - Part Two
Posted by: carra (IP Logged)
Date: 2008:04:03:19:54:13

Sure there was more than this?

Re: Born Without A Name - Part Two
Posted by: Waspy (IP Logged)
Date: 2008:04:03:20:01:50

There is carra your right the rest will appear in time, will explain ta you another time the reason why it's in parts...(Sm1)

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Born Without A Name
Posted by: Mighty Reds (IP Logged)
Date: 2008:04:04:07:31:10

Born Without A Name

Then on Christmas day in 1965, my dream came true. My best Christmas present ever!. Tomorrow I was finally going to Anfield to watch the Tricky Reds, I discarded my “Popeye break a plate game” and other Christmas presents and sorted out my best clothes and my Liverpool scarf out in preparation for my very special day.

On Boxing Day Liverpool took on Leeds United at Anfield and all our family where going. I was “made” to eat some dinner but I had no appetite, I was too excited. I can remember having a bit of a cob on because I wanted to go with my Dad “NOT” with the others (I knew my Dad would spend more on me if we went together).

We waited for what seemed like an eternity before we set off to the ground. I can remember what seemed a horrendous cold and long walk for a 7-year-old boy from Clare Road to Anfield. Walking up I can remember being amazed at the numbers of people walking up to the match and they all seemed to know each other. We arrived at this place called Anfield, it was dark and gloomy on the outside, and inside was something else. We made our way into the paddock right by the Anfield Road end. I can remember sitting on the wall of the “old” floodlight stantions and watching a mass of people at one end of the crowd. This end contained the most people I had ever seen in my life, it was huge it was incredible it was just a wall of noise and very colourful. This turned out to be “The Spion Kop” one day to be the love of my life.

Then as both teams ran out side by side, the noise was deafening, it was a wall of sound that hurt this young boys ears. Suddenly as if prearranged the majority of the Spion Kop held up their red and white scarf’s and started to sing you’ll Never Walk Alone. I had never seen or heard anything like this in all my seven years on this planet, it was a sea of colour “A bastion of invincibility.”

Throughout the game, The Spion Kop moved and sang as one, early on Liverpool nearly scored, I fell off the floodlight wall and suddenly the Earth moved. I was put back up on the wall. After a while Leeds scored and the couple of hundred Leeds fans in the Anfield Road End waved white hankies up in the air in acknowledgement. The Liverpool supporters around us clapped the Leeds United goal. At the end of the match, I can remember clapping in appreciation to the efforts of both teams, my hands hurt for ages afterwards. Liverpool 0 Leeds United 1.

The funny thing is, I was told it was 1.1, it wasn’t until years later that I found out we had been beaten. My brother and Dad had said Liverpool had scored while I had gone out to the loo. Maybe they thought I would be too upset if I thought I was a bad omen or something? We moved from Clare Road, to a new housing estate called Netherton. This was a place very near to the countryside and our relatives in Bootle proper used to call us “Our country cousins”. I soon had two sets of mates, who used to meet up with each other when going to the match.



This was the shape of things to come, every Saturday when my Dad used to get ready to go to the match, I used to pester him to take me. Obviously he didn’t take me to that many games because he wanted to meet his mates in the pub for a few bevies or had to travel to away games.


In 1965 we had progressed to the FA Cup semi-final at Villa Park against Chelsea; I was deemed a lucky mascot and duly travelled to Birmingham to watch the Tricky Reds. The trip seemed to take forever, we parked up by the ground and walked to the ground. I can remember sitting on a barrier in a huge open end with thousands of Liverpool Fans. Even as a young lad I could feel the tension and the passion in the crowd. Of course we won 2.0 after a very close encounter, Peter Thompson scoring a rocket past Peter Bonetti and Willie Stevenson scoring from a penalty. I was about five feet tall, and can remember wearing my very long home made red and white scarf and trying to keep it clean as we walked back to the car. Kopites were singing and dancing in the streets, hugging and grabbing each other. It was boss.

Like so many other Liverpool families, the whole of our house was turned into a shrine to Liverpool Football Club for the FA Cup final. Every window (front and back) had pictures of Liverpool players and of course Mr Liverpool himself “Shankly”. We had red and white crepe paper everywhere, even the banister was decorated with alternate red and white patterns.

On day in May 1965 seemed like any other, until the Cup Final approached, Evertonians always used to say “Tell it to the Marines”. This is a famous saying some of you may have heard.

Well one morning in May 1965 we certainly “Told it to the Marines”. During WW2 my Dad was in the Royal Marines. Another local famous saying (from Everton fans was, when the Liver birds leave Liverpool then we will win the Cup). I had heard all this but it meant nothing to me, then after watching the pre-match warm up to the Liverpool V Leeds Cup Final (in black & white) something happened.

My Dad had not been able to get a ticket and had gone to the local boozer for a couple of pints. On his way home he noticed a pigeon sitting on our roof, he told us. As the kick off to the game approached we kept legging it backwards and forwards out to the back garden to check if the “Liver Bird” was still on the roof.

Our living room was bedecked in Red and White, we had salmon butties and lemonade all set out for anyone who was hungry. We only ever had salmon butties on New Years night, this was the ultimate treat for us? History was made Liverpool FC had won the FA Cup for the very first time after 81 years thanks to Ian St John. “EE – AY – ADDIO, WE WON THE CUP” was sung, no shouted, out over and over for an eternity once big Ron Yeats had picked up the elusive silverware.

The “immortals” who won us the FA Cup were Tommy Lawerence, Chris Lawler, Gerry Byrne, Gordon Milne, Ron Yeats, Willie Stevenson, Ian Callaghan, “Sir” Roger Hunt, Ian St John, Tommy Smith and Peter Thompson. After the game, I can remember running round to all me mates, and telling them the story of the “Liver bird” on our roof. There must have been around ten of us, outside our house looking up at this mythical bird. What a great time to be a Liverpool supporter, we walked around the streets of Netherton telling anyone who would listen to us that Liverpool had won the Cup, we even took our dog with us suitably dressed in an old tatty nylon Liverpool top.

Next day, I can remember going to Town to see them bring the Cup back to Liverpool, if I had thought the Spion Kop was awesome what followed next beggared beyond belief. It was incredible the whole of Town was full of zany Liverpool fans and I mean FULL. St John held the Cup aloft as the team bus left Lime Street Station, he was wearing a red beret, which somehow my Dad caught whilst holding me on his shoulders. I still have it with a special badge from the next season proclaiming Liverpool FC league Champions 1966.

During the late 60’s I was fortunate to be taken too many games by me Dad, for home games we used to leave around 12:30 get the 56 or 28 from the Marion Square and walk up to Anfield.

He always had to pop into a pub to see if his mates were in there. After a while I noticed that most pub’s usually had small groups of young lads standing outside each holding a packet of Walkers crisps and a bottle of lemonade. We always went into the Anfield Road end, as this was less crowded. It was like being in School, all your mates would stand in the bottom left hand corner of the Annie Road, whilst all the Dads used to stand in the top left hand corner



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2008:04:05:11:27:09 by Reds.

Re: Born Without A Name
Posted by: carra (IP Logged)
Date: 2008:04:04:19:26:40

Why are we being drip fed this great read.Me mum always saved her red salmon for special occasions marvelous stuff.

Re: Born Without A Name
Posted by: Waspy (IP Logged)
Date: 2008:04:04:20:44:51

(Sm6)

ta keep you's hanging on in suspense...(Sm14)

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