Do We Still Stand For Sitting?
By John Christie October 26 2007
For someone who was present and witnessed the horror and carnage of Hillsborough, I never thought I'd even contemplate the idea of terraces at our football grounds again and though the horror of the day will stay with me forever, I hope I'm still open minded enough to think through changes in the game that might go against my thoughts directly after the disaster.
For someone who was present and witnessed the horror and carnage of Hillsborough, I never thought I'd even contemplate the idea of terraces at our football grounds again and though the horror of the day will stay with me forever, I hope I'm still open minded enough to think through changes in the game that might go against my thoughts directly after the disaster.
It was a commonday motion raised in the House of Commons last week, calling for the re-introduction of terracing at Premiership grounds and the arguments put forward to promote it, that seriously made me think otherwise.
Lord Justice Taylor never actually recommended the scrapping of terraces. It was the total missmanagement of the crowd by the South Yorkshire Police, and the fences in the Leppings Lane end, that were primarily blamed for the disaster and death of 96 innocent fans. Nethertheless, chairmen the length of the country launched into all seater grounds, and to be fair, most of our Premiership grounds are now the pride of Europe, but it has come at a very high price. Call me a synic but how many of those chairmen saw £ signs more so than health and safety after Hillsborough?
Now you could say nobody has died in all seater stadia but how many games have you been on the KOP or a semi-final and everybody has stood? That I think is a hazard, the seated stands are not designed to be stood on, there is not enough room and it is easy to topple over the seat in front. Dortmunds stadium was one of the best grounds i have ever been to ...... the seats we were sitting on actually transformed into barriers. The stand behind the goal, where I was, held 26 000 when a standing terrace .
Could this be a consideration at our new home for the KOP? It would add another 10 000 on the gate and lower prices. it could be used for the big European nights, 86 000 would scare the hell out of anyone, but could we ever contemplate this if the Hillsborough families objected? I very much doubt that we could, but another club might well do so in the near future.
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StumbleuponRe: Do We Still Stand For Sitting?
Posted by: Waspy (IP Logged)
Date: 2007:10:26:13:37:54
First of all I commend you on your story, & still a touching event for all that was there. my heart goes out to them & there families.
I'm sure a lot of you know my views on this whole situation. I still believe to this day terrecing & our fans are not ta blame for the whole situation.
I'm whole heartedly behined the campaign for justice ta be resolved. and so I believe we can have safe terrecing as John has described & believe that the families would not object.
Yes seated areas are more dangerous if all are standing. There are still alot of grounds which have terrecing, if it was that important they would all be transformed.
Fans should have a very big say in this & be more involved
in what is said & done. Not just the top knobs & money men.
my view is bring back standing but in a more controlled & safe way.
I'm sure a lot of you know my views on this whole situation. I still believe to this day terrecing & our fans are not ta blame for the whole situation.
I'm whole heartedly behined the campaign for justice ta be resolved. and so I believe we can have safe terrecing as John has described & believe that the families would not object.
Yes seated areas are more dangerous if all are standing. There are still alot of grounds which have terrecing, if it was that important they would all be transformed.
Fans should have a very big say in this & be more involved
in what is said & done. Not just the top knobs & money men.
my view is bring back standing but in a more controlled & safe way.
Re: Do We Still Stand For Sitting?
Posted by: Captain Scarlet (IP Logged)
Date: 2007:10:26:14:31:17
I think everyone agrees that terraces was not to blame for Hillsborough.
How many years did we stand without problems before?
Old stadia and errors in control have been the causes of most disasters including Bradford and Hillsborough.
What about all these rock concerts etc where thousands stand safely?
In this day and age we should be able to stand or sit safely.
In can't see how standing at all seater grounds is more dangerous though waspy, unless you're talking about individuals getting hurt. There can't be any mass swaying as the seats act as barriers.
Definately though John, the new Anfield should cater for standing and or seating.
How many years did we stand without problems before?
Old stadia and errors in control have been the causes of most disasters including Bradford and Hillsborough.
What about all these rock concerts etc where thousands stand safely?
In this day and age we should be able to stand or sit safely.
In can't see how standing at all seater grounds is more dangerous though waspy, unless you're talking about individuals getting hurt. There can't be any mass swaying as the seats act as barriers.
Definately though John, the new Anfield should cater for standing and or seating.
Re: Do We Still Stand For Sitting?
Posted by: Waspy (IP Logged)
Date: 2007:10:26:15:54:30
Yep cap'n, Hillsborough was diff it wasn't the terrecing that caused the tragedy in my opionion. With the seats low down in front of ya & when ya celebrate you could easily topple over em or shin yaself.
I know, Bradford had an old wooden stand when that fire started. But what if there was a fire in a modern seater stadia, i'm sure ya wouldn't see everyone going single file
up the isles ta get ta the steps. It would be a mass over the top of the seats joby, wouldn't that cause probs.
Like the stand we were in Cap'n at reading, very steep indeed. Only takes panic, if ya no what i mean.
I know, Bradford had an old wooden stand when that fire started. But what if there was a fire in a modern seater stadia, i'm sure ya wouldn't see everyone going single file
up the isles ta get ta the steps. It would be a mass over the top of the seats joby, wouldn't that cause probs.
Like the stand we were in Cap'n at reading, very steep indeed. Only takes panic, if ya no what i mean.
Re: Do We Still Stand For Sitting?
Posted by: Captain Scarlet (IP Logged)
Date: 2007:10:26:17:44:52
Oh I thought you meant with crowds swaying etc at goals and near misses.
Revamped and new grounds are much safer for standing now than old days.
Hillsborough had the fences up and Bradford was made of old drift wood.
I see what you mean about panic though. Like at Reading when we realised we hadn't got our programmes and had to race down to the old dear at half time.
Revamped and new grounds are much safer for standing now than old days.
Hillsborough had the fences up and Bradford was made of old drift wood.
I see what you mean about panic though. Like at Reading when we realised we hadn't got our programmes and had to race down to the old dear at half time.
Re: Do We Still Stand For Sitting?
Posted by: Waspy (IP Logged)
Date: 2007:10:26:17:59:26
,
see what I mean cap'n, didn't think we was gonna stop at the bottom nearly ended up over the barriers & on the pitch...
.
Revamped and new grounds are much safer for standing now than old days.
Yeah totally agree, so I don't know why the Kop hasn't got that safer standing area. Even half & half...?
Re: Do We Still Stand For Sitting?
Posted by: carra (IP Logged)
Date: 2007:10:26:23:27:57
Forgot id done this last night ,had a few pints so thanks Kate for putting it in English. Were all still very defensive all things Hillsborough the last thing anyone wants to do is go against what the families want but its time we debated this issue and gave it serious thought.Doubt at my age id want to stand on a terrace anymore much to use to my creature comforts and view from the lower cemetary even if some of the old corpses around me need creamating now.But even a partly terraced kop at lower prices would allow so many younger or fans who are fiancally strapped back in to supporting the reds. Lets not forget how shiity it was especially when u were small it was on the kop due to the fact u couldnt see a thing ,but the atmospher was drug like it was the place to be.Wouldnt of missed it for the world so why cant we have it back as long as its safe of course.
Re: Do We Still Stand For Sitting?
Posted by: rocky64 (IP Logged)
Date: 2008:04:18:15:26:35
@#$%& all the emotion of hillsbrough, heysal etc and other disasters. standing can be reintrodcued in a safe why like the hun have it in there lands and was used in the last world cup. With people allowed to drink on the stand!!!!
It's sad that people have lot there lives but to blame it on standing is cowardly. The people to blame are the police, football league and sheffield wednesday. I've reseached this throughly for a college piece and would suggest those wanting to cast a view should do some research to. Read the taylor report. FFS
It's sad that people have lot there lives but to blame it on standing is cowardly. The people to blame are the police, football league and sheffield wednesday. I've reseached this throughly for a college piece and would suggest those wanting to cast a view should do some research to. Read the taylor report. FFS
Re: Do We Still Stand For Sitting?
Posted by: Waspy (IP Logged)
Date: 2008:04:18:18:42:29
@#$%& all the emotion of hillsbrough, heysal etc....I wouldn't go as far as that, but I do agree with what you's say bout safe standing. You can study all of the facts from Hillsborough from inquests, taylor reports documentrys & drama it all points to one thing the powers to be not standing terraces.
JUSTICE needs to be done, not a poor excuse to put seats in.
JUSTICE needs to be done, not a poor excuse to put seats in.
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