Invisble Wall?
Eternal Triangle - Denilson, Diaby and Song who should play?
Invisble Wall?
By Boris Mellor
May 4 2009
It was ironic, and perhaps music to Wenger's ears, that some Arsenal fans complained bitterly that Song did not play at Wembley. Of course even more complained that Arshavin didn't play, but he won't be eligible for the second leg of the Champions League.
Invisble Wall?
May 4 2009
It was ironic, and perhaps music to Wenger's ears, that some Arsenal fans complained bitterly that Song did not play at Wembley. Of course even more complained that Arshavin didn't play, but he won't be eligible for the second leg of the Champions League.
That being the case, and ignoring, for the sake of this argument Cesc (who will certainly play) and Nasri (who probably will), who the other midfielders are that should play on the night.
Denilson, Song and Diaby are a sort of unholy trinity, they rarely play in the same line up, and all of them are often criticised by some fans, and praised by others. Usually it is said that the jury is still out on them, though recently the jury returned its verdict on Song and he was found not guilty of not being good enough.
The jury was about to deliver a verdict on Diaby but it had to be postponed as he was having treatment; and it couldn't agree on Denilson.
All these players have merits and faults, which are not particularly unique to them, firstly the faults Diaby seems to hang on the ball too long and loses it to the opposition. Denilson gives the ball away too often, and Song sometimes stands off when he should not.
On the plus side Diaby on his day has pace, neat passing and a wicked shot. Denilson breaks up the opposition play before it can get started, and Song is a good tackler and passer in spite of his slow pace.
The Collective is what counts
However the issue here is not a beauty contest - who is the best player, but what combination fits best into the collective that is the team. What I will say next is perhaps subjective, but increasingly I get the feeling that the team only benefits when a certain two of the three plays, and the two are Denilson and Song.
Proof of pudding in the eating
When I look back at two of the most daring and effective attacking operations this team has carried out I think of the draw at Liverpool and the win at Chelsea. In these games we were often under the cosh but managed to break out and score. In those games we played Denilson and Song. It would seem the balance worked better with these two in the team.
Two of the most disappointing performances were the FA Cup Semi Final, and the CL Semi First Leg. In both these games we created very little. Denilson and Diaby played in the first two games listed, and Song and Denilson in the two games that flopped, but not Denilson and Song in tandem.
Thus the Denilson/Song Partnership proved to be a better platform for our creative midfielders to build on than any other partnership. I also believe that Denilson is becoming the new invisible wall, and that Song has amazing technique (I can hear the howls of outrage from some quarters). Diaby has talent but has failed to fit into the team of late; football is about the best collective, not the best individuals.
Denilson and Song work for the team and do not exaggerate their role; they also seem to deliver the goods. Of course there are other issues, how has the absence of Gallas affected the midfield? Is Walcott too lightweight against a team as physical as Man U, and would Eboue be better in that position.
Invisible Wall Spotted Fouling Frank
Whatever eleven
I think one problem that Wenger now has is that he is no longer sure what his best midfield engine is. He started with Eboue, and gave up on that, Nasri has been sent deeper and Fabregas put in the hole. Meanwhile the eternal triangle of Denilson, Diaby and Song goes round and round.
I believe the key to winning on Tuesday is getting that triangle right; however whatever eleven Wenger picks the players should play well. Passion and commitment is far more important than formations. Only the players that are on the pitch can win the game, not those who are not. Nonetheless it is now a 14 man game, and the use of substitutes could turn the game for either side.
Wenger will have Rvp back, and also Silvestre, to my mind the defence will be more important than who the strikers are. Arsenal must get goals and it doesn't matter who gets them, but mistakes at the back could undermine the outcome.
Yes it's going to be tough, feint hearts will not win a big trophy, and it's time to recall the spirit of 89. I don't know about the team but I am going to find it hard to keep calm for the next 24 hours. Come on you reds, let's get behind the team
Arsenal Probable Squad: Almunia, Sagna, Toure, Djourou, Gibbs, Nasri, Song, Fabregas, Walcott, van Persie, Adebayor, Fabianski, Denilson, Silvestre, Diaby, Eboue, Bendtner, Ramsey.
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Eternal Triangle - Denilson, Diaby and Song who should play?
Posted by: Arsenal Times (IP Logged)
Date: 04/05/2009 18:49
What do you think? You can have your say by posting below.
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009:05:08:18:52:12 by Padre Pio.
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009:05:08:18:52:12 by Padre Pio.
Re: Eternal Triangle - Denilson, Diaby and Song who should play?
Posted by: Rockstaar (IP Logged)
Date: 04/05/2009 19:15
no diaby..for any reason..and eboue deserves a look in...hes at the very least gives the opposition something to worry about
[arsenalsigs.blogspot.com]
[arsenalsigs.blogspot.com]
Re: Eternal Triangle - Denilson, Diaby and Song who should play?
Posted by: AJ The Gunner (IP Logged)
Date: 04/05/2009 21:32
Diaby has been? i can't even begin to think what.the fact that wenger left him on the pitch at the theatre of dreams was enough for me to think that wenger doesn't fancy winning trophies anymore.
i seriously have no hope of us getting to the finals and thats pathetic cos a fan must believe until its really over.
i seriously have no hope of us getting to the finals and thats pathetic cos a fan must believe until its really over.
Re: Eternal Triangle - Denilson, Diaby and Song who should play?
Posted by: arsenose (IP Logged)
Date: 04/05/2009 22:07
Definitely Denilson - he actually played a real blinder at Pompey - AA was right, he was worthy of being MOTM. Also agree that Song is more deserving than Diaby for a place especially as Diaby is very much not a team player.
Re: Eternal Triangle - Denilson, Diaby and Song who should play?
Posted by: Goofle11 (IP Logged)
Date: 04/05/2009 22:28
Good post.
And I do not think it is a question any more. Whilst Diaby is by far the worst of the three, he does not play in the same "position". He is an attacking midfielder. He plays either on the wing or in place of Cesc.
he cannot play alongside him and he does not play well on the wing (although I would argue that his best position is on the right because he is not forced inside) whereas Denilson and Song have looked fantastic, and even allow Cesc to just play off Adebayor, unlike Nasri and Song (even though Nasri did a great defensive job)
Case closed on Diaby. He should be sold and a quality player who can actually fill in the role of a back up attacking midfielder/winger brought in.
Stephen ireland anyone?
And I do not think it is a question any more. Whilst Diaby is by far the worst of the three, he does not play in the same "position". He is an attacking midfielder. He plays either on the wing or in place of Cesc.
he cannot play alongside him and he does not play well on the wing (although I would argue that his best position is on the right because he is not forced inside) whereas Denilson and Song have looked fantastic, and even allow Cesc to just play off Adebayor, unlike Nasri and Song (even though Nasri did a great defensive job)
Case closed on Diaby. He should be sold and a quality player who can actually fill in the role of a back up attacking midfielder/winger brought in.
Stephen ireland anyone?
Re: Eternal Triangle - Denilson, Diaby and Song who should play?
Posted by: Optimistic Gunner (IP Logged)
Date: 04/05/2009 23:38
Diaby is a waste of space.
Re: Eternal Triangle - Denilson, Diaby and Song who should play?
Posted by: De Times (IP Logged)
Date: 05/05/2009 12:13
Diaby is the best cm of all of them. He's the most versatile and most talented, and the tallest. Wenger's not kept faith with him 4 no reason. The problem he's had with his development has been injuries - just when he seem to be getting on his rythm then another injury will struck and it takes him quite a while to get back to form after that. Song is evolving into something really interesting, and Denilson will last more in the game than all of them.
For the game against united, song is clearly ahead of all of them. But dont be surprise, wenger can play diaby ahead of them both and diaby could inturn surprise us all by putting up a worldclass display.
----------almunia
sagna--toure-djorou--gibbs
walcott-fabregas-song/diaby-nasri
----rvp---adebayor
“Our target was to build a new stadium without dropping from the top. We knew it would be a difficult period for four or five years so we had to make a decision on how can we stay at the top level with less money available".
-AW
For the game against united, song is clearly ahead of all of them. But dont be surprise, wenger can play diaby ahead of them both and diaby could inturn surprise us all by putting up a worldclass display.
----------almunia
sagna--toure-djorou--gibbs
walcott-fabregas-song/diaby-nasri
----rvp---adebayor
“Our target was to build a new stadium without dropping from the top. We knew it would be a difficult period for four or five years so we had to make a decision on how can we stay at the top level with less money available".
-AW
Re: Eternal Triangle - Denilson, Diaby and Song who should play?
Posted by: Goofle11 (IP Logged)
Date: 05/05/2009 14:10
De Times, I think you have gone insane. To even suggest putting Diaby alongside Fabregas is insanity itself, never mind claiming that he is the most talented of the three.
Wenger has kept faith because he does that. Don't be surprised if he is sold in the summer.
Wenger has kept faith because he does that. Don't be surprised if he is sold in the summer.
Re: Eternal Triangle - Denilson, Diaby and Song who should play?
Posted by: zombiez (IP Logged)
Date: 06/05/2009 01:07
AW does not sell any player unless other clubs make a bid, players contract has end or the player himself wants to go.
Re: Eternal Triangle - Denilson, Diaby and Song who should play?
Posted by: Padre Pio (IP Logged)
Date: 06/05/2009 06:55
No Denilson no win
Re: Eternal Triangle - Denilson, Diaby and Song who should play?
Posted by: litmus (IP Logged)
Date: 06/05/2009 07:11
Talent is subjective. Diaby has great "talents" to go with a great 6-3 frame to be an effective midfielder. In fact I think it is true that he has much more "raw talent" compared to a lot of other midfielders in Europe. Good ball skills, can dribble and shoot, good pace, passing, good physique.
Compare him to what AW said about a 16 year old long-haired Fabregas first team debut after the Charity Shiled game against Man U years ago. exceptionally mature football brain for a 16 year old, knows pefectly how long and when he should hold the ball, and exactly when to pass it, have good composure on the ball.
The problem with Daiby is he doesn't know how to use his skills effectively. Its not just AW who doesn't know how to get the best of of him and in which exact role, I think he himself hasn't got a clue.
You can see the way he plays, he has talents in abundance but he needs to develop the quick thinking football brain and on the ball composure to be a great midfielder.
Compare him to what AW said about a 16 year old long-haired Fabregas first team debut after the Charity Shiled game against Man U years ago. exceptionally mature football brain for a 16 year old, knows pefectly how long and when he should hold the ball, and exactly when to pass it, have good composure on the ball.
The problem with Daiby is he doesn't know how to use his skills effectively. Its not just AW who doesn't know how to get the best of of him and in which exact role, I think he himself hasn't got a clue.
You can see the way he plays, he has talents in abundance but he needs to develop the quick thinking football brain and on the ball composure to be a great midfielder.
Re: Eternal Triangle - Denilson, Diaby and Song who should play?
Posted by: SandyB (IP Logged)
Date: 06/05/2009 16:29
None of the above are eligible to play in 1st team for any top clubs in Europe. To be honest, now a days I'm back to watching Copa Libertadores and these guys are not to the standard of Sao Paulo, Boca or Palmeiras standard. Some amazing skills can be seen in Latin American football.
Re: Eternal Triangle - Denilson, Diaby and Song who should play?
Posted by: Goofle11 (IP Logged)
Date: 06/05/2009 19:36
If Song is not good enough, neither are van Persie, Adebayor, Walcott, Diaby, Eboue, Silvestre, Djourou and a few others.
Song is going better in his position than they do in their's. Yes, he is not World Class, but it would be a big mistake using money to replace Song or Denilson when there are far bigger gaps in other areas of the squad.
For example, Arsenal only have two (three of you include Rosicky) creative wingers - Nasri and Arshavin. Not one back up player is good enough, and at times these players need rest. Walcott is not ever going to fill that role.
Song is going better in his position than they do in their's. Yes, he is not World Class, but it would be a big mistake using money to replace Song or Denilson when there are far bigger gaps in other areas of the squad.
For example, Arsenal only have two (three of you include Rosicky) creative wingers - Nasri and Arshavin. Not one back up player is good enough, and at times these players need rest. Walcott is not ever going to fill that role.
Re: Eternal Triangle - Denilson, Diaby and Song who should play?
Posted by: squarepeg (IP Logged)
Date: 06/05/2009 19:45
Agreed I thought when Liverpool switched from playing one Defensive midfielder to two in Alonso and Mascherano they benefited enormously in big games as the were just able to out muscle and out compete most midfields. Letting the more creative players engage another gear.
Re: Eternal Triangle - Denilson, Diaby and Song who should play?
Posted by: Merlion96 (IP Logged)
Date: 07/05/2009 09:53
In the aftermath fo CL CUp semi, it looks more liekly thatw e need a Denilson-SOng defensive shield allowing the front-4 freedom toc reate without worrying about tracking back adn defensive duties.
But who have that FLamini Engine?
I beleive only Nasri has this FLamini Engine.
Noen of those "Unholy Trio" mdifielder has that Flamini Engine.
if Wenegr proceeds to buy an experiecned mdifielder, it spells the end of 1 or more of these youngstrs.
But who have that FLamini Engine?
I beleive only Nasri has this FLamini Engine.
Noen of those "Unholy Trio" mdifielder has that Flamini Engine.
if Wenegr proceeds to buy an experiecned mdifielder, it spells the end of 1 or more of these youngstrs.
Re: Eternal Triangle - Denilson, Diaby and Song who should play?
Posted by: Goofle11 (IP Logged)
Date: 07/05/2009 11:23
If Wenger signed a top winger, a top center back and a top striker, we could play a midfield of...
Arshavin - Fabregas - Nasri - ******
That would be better than anythign we already have.
Arshavin - Fabregas - Nasri - ******
That would be better than anythign we already have.
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