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can't see alexander doing as well at macc as he did with us.

good luck to him though

And why not? We have got rid of 13 players who were here last season, nobody can predict who is gonna do well or not before a team has been formed or a ball been kicked? Or are you jumping on the I know who's going down band waggon?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009:07:02:18:30:16 by 12thman.

Would be good to see Keith do well with Macc. I thought out of the the 4 play off years 2 of our sides- the one that lost to southend and the one that lost to huddersfield would have been ok in L1 the other 2 would not have survived. So if he he gets the right players i think macc have a chance but it may take longer than it did with us to get into the top 7.

That semi-final second-leg at Huddersfield was a game we should have won!

Mansfield beckoned in the final. We would have won that game too!

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Hate Macc - love Keith (in a very manly way of course!!)

Morgan should have played higher and will always regret staying with us so long.

Brown - average in both mid & def.

[fansonline.net]

Quote:

PoshImp
That semi-final second-leg at Huddersfield was a game we should have won!
Mansfield beckoned in the final. We would have won that game too!

Never felt so bad after a game than that one. What was worse was we ripped mansfield apart at sincil bank that year. I still remember saying at the start of that match that the winner would go up as i thought the 2 of us were alot better than mansfield.

Macc are a Non League club, end of , They do remarkably well to punch above their weight but they are not at the same level as lincoln, History, Fan base ( I think in the play off at theirs wehad more fans than them, what they bought to SB was a joke), Wealth and facilities support this.

I agree to a point but Maccs average attendance last year if i remember correctly was a bit higher. There no smaller than Barnet, Dag & Red, Accrington are they?

What higher than Lincoln's?????

Nah you have got that wrong fella, by a long way!

And the others are Non - league too. the facilities at them grounds beggar belief. Accy's is worse than the west common

Some Clubs my friend may be better off money wise, but yes little ole Macc have on going plans for a new ground with new facilities, so put that in your pipe & smoke it?

2,000 all seater with porter-loos

Quote:

Normanstanley
What higher than Lincoln's?????
Nah you have got that wrong fella, by a long way!

And the others are Non - league too. the facilities at them grounds beggar belief. Accy's is worse than the west common

They arn't as big as lincoln but what i am saying is there are plenty off l2 teams who are as small if not smaller.

Who in the BSP are bigger than macc?

I can think of Oxford and Luton so at what point does a team become Non League? Attendences? Ground Facilities? Players?

they are in league two on merit, they are better than every team below them regardless of fan base..

If you can only think of Luton and Oxford that are bigger than macclesfied in the BSP then you need to look again!

I can think of Wrexham, Cambridge, Rushden, York, Luton, Oxford and perhaps Chester.

Quote:

12thman
Some Clubs my friend may be better off money wise, but yes little ole Macc have on going plans for a new ground with new facilities, so put that in your pipe & smoke it?

Just stating the facts fella, Your ground is shocking, your support is woeful and if you move to a new ground..... and fill it, I will show my @#$%&.

Your on a par with Boston United, though i think there support must shade yours when they were in Division 4... AndThey have found their true level!

Quote:

Normanstanley
If you can only think of Luton and Oxford that are bigger than macclesfied in the BSP then you need to look again!
I can think of Wrexham, Cambridge, Rushden, York, Luton, Oxford and perhaps Chester.

Macclesfield may be a small club but they do well in our league and were in L1 more recently than us! They are a FL club and probably will be for the forseable future.

Luton, oxford definetly have bigger clubs.Wrexham bit bigger but they don't live near the best supported team in England do they? Rushden! LOL! Sorry but who are rushden? They spent 5 years in their history in FL so how are they a big club? Chester are about the same size but again spend alot of time in Non league. Cambridge are about on par as well. York are only big when there top of the league the rest of the time they just a smaal team.

Look at Cambridges history fella, your off your head if you think Macc are bigger than Cambridge.

Quote:

Dave Imp

Quote:

Normanstanley
If you can only think of Luton and Oxford that are bigger than macclesfied in the BSP then you need to look again!
I can think of Wrexham, Cambridge, Rushden, York, Luton, Oxford and perhaps Chester.

Macclesfield may be a small club but they do well in our league and were in L1 more recently than us! They are a FL club and probably will be for the forseable future.

Luton, oxford definetly have bigger clubs.Wrexham bit bigger but they don't live near the best supported team in England do they? Rushden! LOL! Sorry but who are rushden? They spent 5 years in their history in FL so how are they a big club? Chester are about the same size but again spend alot of time in Non league. Cambridge are about on par as well. York are only big when there top of the league the rest of the time they just a smaal team.

Not true. We both went up in the same season (97/98) and we both came straight back down a year later, making us the only Football League team to have played Macclesfield in each and every season they have been members!

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my appologies posh i thought they went up in 99.

Normanstanley you clutching at straws now. I din't say macc were bigger i said about on par Cambridge may have better history but macc are consistent in their league. Cambridge have been out of league for a few years now. I think you hate macc for one reason or another. I can only judge them on where they are and they have been a football league side for well over 10 years. Can you say the same for any team you are suggesting are bigger? thought not.

I'm not clutching at straws, your arguments are flawed.

Cambridge's history (FA Cup quarter finalists twice and playing in the 2nd tier of the Football league). They are miles bigger than Macc, who I hasten to add I haven't a problem with, but I would be suprised if anyone on here agreed with you that Macc are a bigger club than Cambridge.

Also on you point about Wrexham, they are very close to Liverpool, and within Wrexham there is a huge fan base for liverpool and Everton. I also think their record attendance is something along the lines of 40 odd thousand.

I never said cambridge were bigger than Macc i said that despite having more success than macc in the past, recently they have been a BSP team and that macc are holding their own in L2. Also Wrexham are in wales not England so i very much doubt the Welsh are going to support English teams!

Your original argument was that macc are a non league team. They currently play in the FOOTBALL LEAGUE not NON LEAGUE and your yet to say why there non league other than the fact they don't get 15,000 fans every week and don't play at wembley!

Thats the best one yet that people in Wales won't support English teams.

Liverpool as an example have 40 million worldwide supporters.. And Wrexham has 3 liverpool supporters clubs.

Quote:

Dave Imp
I never said cambridge were bigger than Macc i said that despite having more success than macc in the past, recently they have been a BSP team and that macc are holding their own in L2. Also Wrexham are in wales not England so i very much doubt the Welsh are going to support English teams!
Your original argument was that macc are a non league team. They currently play in the FOOTBALL LEAGUE not NON LEAGUE and your yet to say why there non league other than the fact they don't get 15,000 fans every week and don't play at wembley!

Agreed. Normanstanley appeaers to have changed his arguement half way through the debate suggesting a slightly muddled thinking on his part.

His original point that Macclesfied are a BSP side is clearly ridiculous. Teams are in particular divisions because of the number of points they achieve. They are a League Two side on merit.

He then decided to change his point and suggest that posters were suggesting that Macclesfield were "bigger" than various teams he lists. This point was never trying to be made and I think was used to deflect attention from the ridiculous notion he tried to put in the first place.

The argument about who is "bigger" is riddled with difficuklties and has no definitive measure. Points are a definitive measure. Macclesfield are a League Two side. End of.

Keith Alexander - best manager we had in years. Quite how he was treated by certain sections of people supposedly running our club and certain sections of supporters was a disgrace. They ought to be ashamed of themselves and never allowed any input into running of this football club EVER again.

Quote:

Normanstanley
Thats the best one yet that people in Wales won't support English teams.
Liverpool as an example have 40 million worldwide supporters.. And Wrexham has 3 liverpool supporters clubs.

Are you a politition? As once again you seem to be avoiding the main issue. Fair enough there will be some in wales who support liverpool but there will be a dam sight more around macclesfield who support a manchester club.

Now how about telling us how you work out that Macclesfield are non league because i am dying to know.

I remember back on Saturday 16th November, 1968 when we played them away in the FA Cup First Round. They were just a non-league side then. We beat them 3-1 and I remember that we were behind a goal standing on what was just a mound of earth! We then played Chester away in the second round and drew, replaying at home the following Wednesday. John Kennedy (our 'keeper) broke his arm in the game and Jim Grummett took over. We won 2-1 and Grummett was the hero! We then got an away draw at Birmingham. I went. We lost 2-1 with Phil Hubbard raising our hopes with a goal. I was nearly 14...

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[quote Markus Naslund][quote Dave Imp]

The argument about who is "bigger" is riddled with difficuklties and has no definitive measure. Points are a definitive measure. Macclesfield are a League Two side. End of.
[/quote]

I believe the first sentence is true. The second is a Red Herring and here lies the problem. The third is true. The fourth is definately wrong, otherwise none of us would have to bother to type anything.

To me the situation is,

A club is in whichever Division it is on merit over the whole of the previous season. However, big clubs and small clubs have varying fortunes over time. I remember Manchester United, Tottenham and Chelsea in the second tier of English football, Manchester City, Nottingham Forest and Leeds in the 3rd tier and Wolverhampton Wanderers in the 4th tier. I also remember Northampton, Carlisle, Wimbledon, Barnsley, Bradford and Oxford in the top tier. Are Wigan a big club, or a Wimbledon on a winning streak? Until they were relegated 10 years ago Coventry were the second longest serving team in the top flight behind Arsenal, who are the only team never to have played outside of the top division.

Points at any particular point in time do not make a big, or a small team; it is the nebulus, debatable, combination of factors like history, fan base, stadium, current position, location, and players (past and current) that determine that and it changes subtly over time.

Macclesfield are a FL2 club, but I cannot help thinking of them as a Non-League club, because for the majority of the time I have been following football that is what they have been. The same applies to Dagenham & Redbridge, MK Dons, Wycombe, Accrington Stanley, Burton Albion, Boston, Scarborough and Kidderminster. Equally I cannot help but remember the former status of Newport County, Workington (regularly the worst team in the Football League, but re-instated the following season), York City, Halifax, Cambridge, Oxford, Wrexham and Luton. The return of Aldershot is like Karma to my inner Id. (those not conversant with Philisophical mixed metaphors can ignore the pretentious last sentence).

To me Macclesfield are a club with a Non-League feel, that continues to punch above their weight and survive in FL2.

The debate is what makes football such fun.

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i agree cherry imp, there fan base and stadium is that of non league, but they have their football league status for a reason. because they are better than all of the non league teams. but the facilities and size of the club fits the non league bill.

[quote cherryexile][quote Markus Naslund][quote Dave Imp]

The argument about who is "bigger" is riddled with difficuklties and has no definitive measure. Points are a definitive measure. Macclesfield are a League Two side. End of.
[/quote]

I believe the first sentence is true. The second is a Red Herring and here lies the problem. The third is true. The fourth is definately wrong, otherwise none of us would have to bother to type anything.

[/quote]

My fourth sentence was deliberately intransigent, hopefully with the purpose of striking up the debate I was apparently trying to end. Strictly speaking is "End of." a sentence anyway?

Otherwise I think you make some excellent points. However, to me Macclesfield don't "feel" like a non League club and the likes of Cambridge don't "feel" like League Clubs. Perhaps I don't have a strong enough handle on their history to allow myself to do that. You are absolutely right to point out that the subtle changes are often what determines how a club is perceived.

On a small factual point regarding Coventry - I think I might be right in thinking they were the third longest survivors in the top flight after Arsenal and Everton.

The point of my post was that Fletcher appeared to have shifted the goalposts in his argument because his original point was unsustainable.

Quote:

Normanstanley
Macc are a Non League club, end of , They do remarkably well to punch above their weight but they are not at the same level as lincoln, History, Fan base ( I think in the play off at theirs wehad more fans than them, what they bought to SB was a joke), Wealth and facilities support this.

My original point in that Macc are a Non -league club was made as I feel that, although they are a league club, which of course I know, is that they have neither the fan base or the Stadia nor the History to have any right to survive in the league but of course they have. Though how long they last will is another issue, last season they could play without any real pressure due to the nature of the points deductions levied at teams. Without this they may well have gone last season.

My discussion with daveImp was around my arguement that there are at least, in my opinion 6 teams, who have more history and bigger fan bases in the BSP than Macc which he disagreed with.

He also claimed that Macc are hampered by Manchester Utd because of their close proximity, I stated that I felt this could also be said of Wrexham, Chester whom are both as close to Liverpool. A point to which he said Welsh people wouldn't support and English team which is nonsense as Liverpool have 40 million worldwide supporters.

I am quite entitled to my opinion as is daveImp, but in my opinion Macclefield will always seem a non - league club, their ground and fan base support this view, yes they do well, but they will find their level soon and probably stay there.

Markus you are right,

Coventry promoted to the top flight in 1966.

Everton promoted back to the top flight in 1955.

That is a 30-year-held myth that has been shattered.

In fact Everton have only been relegated twice since becoming founder members of hte football League in 1888 and have only spent for years outside of the top flight.

Equally Coventry have only had one spell in the top division (allbeit for 34 years), same as Northampton (1 season).

Oh how staistics can be manipulated.

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Macclesfield may not have won much but they are deservedly in L2. I don't see you saying the same about rochdale who have been in L2 for 30+ years. There ground is bigger but don't get many fans going to see them. Cheltenham, hereford, Accrington, Barnet, Morecambe, Aldershot, Dag & Red are all punching above their weight as are Macc. If those teams in the BSP are that big maybe they need to start showing it. I can't see Macc going down for a few years yet.