Spurs - Sick as a Parrot (North London Rivalry)
By Dave P
July 3 2007
We continue our look at the History of Tottenham Hotspur in this, the clubs 125th Year, by examining the events prior to and just after the First World War. Most of what is told here relates to events that occurred not on the playing field but rather in boardrooms and behind the scenes as the rivalry between us and the interlopers from South London was established.
July 3 2007
We continue our look at the History of Tottenham Hotspur in this, the clubs 125th Year, by examining the events prior to and just after the First World War. Most of what is told here relates to events that occurred not on the playing field but rather in boardrooms and behind the scenes as the rivalry between us and the interlopers from South London was established.
We go back to the end of the 1908/09 season to start the next chapter of our look at the History of Tottenham Hotspur. Why 1909? Well that was the year the Spurs undertook their first overseas tour when Tottenham boarded ships for a tour of Argentina and Uruguay. After a series of games against representative teams from the Argentinian and Uruguayan Leagues and including two games against Everton who were also on that tour, Spurs made the long journey home by sea. On one evening the ships crew organised a fancy dress party for the amusement of their passengers. Two of the Tottenham party entered as Robinson Crusoe and Man Friday but got their stories mixed up a bit and as part of an impersonation of Long John Silver they borrowed the captains pet parrot. The two Spurs lads won the competition and must of impressed the captain as he then presented the Spurs team with the parrot by way of a prize. The bird was brought back to White Hart Lane where it lived for a good few years being paraded around the pitch before games. (More of the Parrot later).
As I have previously mentioned the next few years were pretty non-descript in terms of our history but events elsewhere were conspiring to make this chapter one of the most defining for all Tottenham Hotspur supporters. There was a property developer who happened to be the Chairman of Fulham that went by the name of Henry Norris. Under his Chairmanship Fulham had won the Southern League twice in successive years and then entered the Football League Second Division. However they found the demands of League football difficult and were struggling to make ends meet and attract substantial enough crowds to make them profitable. Henry Norris looked south of the river to another club. His ambition was to build a large club to rival the teams of the North. He saw the opportunity with Woolwich Arsenal and left Fulham to take control of Woolwich in 1909.
Things did not improve for the next few years. They were in liquidation when he took them over and in 1912/13 they finished bottom of the League with a record low of 18 points. Plumstead, Norris realised, was too far from the Capital to have any chance of sustaining a championship side and so he decided to uproot the club and found them a site vacated by the London School of Divinity in Avenell Road. More importantly from his point of view was the nearby tube station Gillespie Road on the Great Northern, Piccadilly and Brompton Railway. Norris realised that this gave a huge working class population easy access to his newly sited club and thus the potential for large crowds. Tottenham and Clapton Orient were vociferous opponents of this move claiming it would be detrimental to their own support but it would seem that the man running Woolwich had friends in high places and the move went ahead very quickly. They started the 1913/14 season in their new unfinished ground and Norris was already starting to dream of the riches his new club would earn him. However the First World War was to delay any profits he might make.
Now the start of the First World War did not spell an end to league football initially. Football continued as normal to start with – after all it would all be over by Christmas was the sentiment of the time, but the clubs were all affected by losing a number of their playing staff to the war effort. Some were worse affected than others. Spurs for example played with a seriously depleted squad and this resulted in them finishing bottom of the First Division at the end of the 1914/15 season with Chelsea in 19th Place and Manchester United just above them. Woolwich finished 5th in the Second Division behind Derby, Preston, Barnsley and Wolves. Then war intervened and the Football League was suspended for the remainder of the conflict. When the war ended the Football League decided to enlarge the divisions to 22 teams each. So you would have thought that Spurs and Chelsea would get a reprieve and be joined by Derby and Preston. What made this seem a foregone decision was the doubt cast on some of the results at the end of the 1914/15 season. As the cessation of the league became inevitable a number of matches were suspected to have been fixed to a certain extent for various reasons. One game between Manchester United and Liverpool was the subject of a libel case which found players guilty of match fixing. United should have been docked points but this did not happen so everyone thought the bottom clubs would be re-elected and be joined by the top two from Division 2.
This was not what happened though. A member of the Arsenal Board (The Chairman – that man Norris) had friends in high places on the League management committee (Liverpools John McKenna – The Leagues President) and the case was put for the slots made vacant by Chelsea and Spurs to be replaced by teams applying for them. The proposal was that not even Derby and Preston would be guaranteed promotion which should have been their right. The President of the board also put forward the motion that Chelseas’ case was different and that they should not have to apply either. Instead they were elected unopposed as they would have finished above Manchester United had United had points deducted. The President also decreed that Derby and Preston would be promoted but the real surprise came when he announced that the board should vote for Arsenal as they had been in the League longer than Tottenham and should be rewarded for their loyalty. Ok, this was true but what was also true was that the two teams that had finished immediately above Arsenal were Wolves (one of the Leagues founder members) and Birmingham who as Small Heath had entered the League a year before Arsenal. What other canvassing went on is purely down to conjecture but the President of the Football League (And Henry Norris) were no doubt pleased to see the result of the vote which was as follows; Arsenal 18 votes, Spurs 8, Barnsley 5, Wolves 4, Nottingham Forest 3, Birmingham 2 and Hull 1 vote. On that night in 1919, Arsenal were elected to the top flight of English Football and have remained there ever since. They have never earned the right to play at the top level.
Now what of the parrot (remember him)? Well according to G. Wagstaff Simmons’ 1946 History of Tottenham Hotspur, the night of the vote when Spurs were unfairly dismissed from Division 1, was the night the parrot died and that allegedly is the origin of the footballing expression ‘Sick as a Parrot’.
Spurs meanwhile, and as if to prove a point put in a determined season when Football resumed in 1919 and went on to win the Second Division Title by six clear points regaining their place, at the first attempt, in the top flight on merit. Something that other lot can never say they have done.
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Spurs - Sick as a Parrot (or why we hate Arsenal)
Posted by: Unofficial Spurs (IP Logged)
Date: 02/07/2007 23:51
Spurs - Sick as a Parrot (or why we hate Arsenal)
Re: Spurs - Sick as a Parrot (or why we hate Arsenal)
Posted by: Cyril1 (IP Logged)
Date: 03/07/2007 05:20
Thanks Dave -- nearly a century ago, but it doesn't lessen the anger. Cheats back then, and cheats to this day. Your article should be required reading for all Spurs (and glory hunting gooner filth). I'm sick as a parrot!
Re: Spurs - Sick as a Parrot (or why we hate Arsenal)
Posted by: Pete27 (IP Logged)
Date: 03/07/2007 07:26
Good stuff Dave. 
Re: Spurs - Sick as a Parrot (or why we hate Arsenal)
Posted by: tonysaunders (IP Logged)
Date: 03/07/2007 07:31
Seems a bit like an Arsenal history lesson to me, as opposed to a Spurs one. But you're right, we've never earned the right to play in the top flight. I mean 88 years not out is pathetic. Anyone can do that. I wish we'd earned it like you guys, rather than set the record for length of time in the top flight. Man, I'm bitter.
Still, I'm certain that The Mighty Tottenham Hotspur did everything by the book in those days. Not. Still, I'm over it, I suggest you lot get over it too. It could start some kind of inferiority complex, you know?
You know how little dogs always have a go at the big dogs just because they feel inferior? Sorry to say it, but when you lot tell me your club has history, and then I look back to your history and see that it consists of two league titles, I have to laugh. You've won three (I think) European trophies. Congratulations. I think Liverpool, Porto, Borussia Dortmund, CSKA Moscow and Aston Villa have shown us that with a bit of luck, anyone can win a European competition. Want to impress the big boys? Win the league a few more times.
Still, only eleven more to go until you level things up with us. If you carry on at your blistering rate of one every 62.5 years, you've only got another 687.5 years to wait!
The glory days are coming back!!!!!!!!!!!
Still, I'm certain that The Mighty Tottenham Hotspur did everything by the book in those days. Not. Still, I'm over it, I suggest you lot get over it too. It could start some kind of inferiority complex, you know?
You know how little dogs always have a go at the big dogs just because they feel inferior? Sorry to say it, but when you lot tell me your club has history, and then I look back to your history and see that it consists of two league titles, I have to laugh. You've won three (I think) European trophies. Congratulations. I think Liverpool, Porto, Borussia Dortmund, CSKA Moscow and Aston Villa have shown us that with a bit of luck, anyone can win a European competition. Want to impress the big boys? Win the league a few more times.
Still, only eleven more to go until you level things up with us. If you carry on at your blistering rate of one every 62.5 years, you've only got another 687.5 years to wait!
The glory days are coming back!!!!!!!!!!!
Re: Spurs - Sick as a Parrot (or why we hate Arsenal)
Posted by: Plug (IP Logged)
Date: 03/07/2007 07:38
And we are bitter...?? 
My old man said be an Arsenal fan.....Now how did the rest of that song go?
My old man said be an Arsenal fan.....Now how did the rest of that song go?
Re: Spurs - Sick as a Parrot (or why we hate Arsenal)
Posted by: MattoftheSpurs (IP Logged)
Date: 03/07/2007 08:38
It is as much as a Arsenal history lesson as much as it is a Spurs one because, wether we like it or not (either side), the two clubs are intertwined and always will be.
From the early days as mentioned in the article above to the present day Spurs and Arsenal have always had good reason to dislike each other (to put it mildly).
Arsenal have always been the solid dependable team. Never getting relegated but also never setting the world alight. Apart from a brief liason with success in the thirties and again in the latter half of the century Arsenal have plodded along. Spurs were seen by many as the fancy dans. The double winning side of the 60's was the epitomy of the 'fancy dan' tag. And this rankled with alot of Arsenal supporters.
What annoyed alot of gooners further was that Spurs proved that you could win things whilst playing attractive football. They were the first English team to win a European trophy and dominated the domestic scene during the 60's almost to the same extent that Arsenal had during the 30's but with more style.
Even down to the types of players that each club would sign the writing was on the wall. Whilst Spurs had Mike England, Alan Mullery, Martin Peters,and Martin Chivers during the 70's Arsenal supporters had to make do with watching the likes of George Graham, Frank McClintock and the like. Even Nick Hornby in his celebrated book "Fever Pitch" admitted that Arsenal were boring.
And whilst Arsenal enjoyed some considerable success during the 80's it was based on the dour 1-0 win. Grinding teams into the ground with sideways passes and the inevitable raising of hands in unison for offside. Arsenal's success during this time was better than Tottenham's but Spurs supporters could revel in cavalier attacking and 40 yard balls being sprayed about by Glenn Hoddle. The closet Arsenal got was a spell when Liam Brady threatened to break ranks and play attractive football. It did not last.
Even when Arsenal did win things it was over shadowed by Spurs. 1991 and Arsenal won the league title. But this was hardly newsworthy as a bankrupt Spurs team swept to the FA Cup final on an injured genius.
It has only been of late that Arsenal have tried to play the Spurs way. Players like Bergkamp and Henry play the game the way it should be, but last season without Henry Arsenal reverted back to type and chose to grind out draws, especially at home, which nearly cost them a place in this years Champions League.
The philosophy of both clubs are polar opposites. They are as different as black and white and chalk and cheese. Most Arsenal supporters these days (backed up by the supporters 'performances' at home and, on the odd occassion they do travel, away) are of the Sky generation. Glory Hunters with TH14 emblazoned across their brand new shirts, purchased from a retail park fifty miles away from their souless new home. They are the sort that would never stand up at a match, let alone sing less they spill their Merlot on their 'Official matchday programme'. They revel in the banal.
Spurs have no glory hunters. For the best part of the last 20 years Spurs supporters have had no glory to hunt. The large majority of their support is local. They are the types to spend many an hour in the pub debating the (lack of) skills of Ian Moores and Ralph Coates as they are to be seen to debate the likes of Berbatov and Keane. Spurs and it's supporters are stacked in history and they are proud of it (as these series of articles proves). Fond memories of trips to Burnden Park, Roker Park and the Baseball ground are often recollected. To the current crop of Arsenal supporters those places have no meaning. And that's the way I like it.
Every trophy, evey piece of silverware, and every drop of kudos that 'them lot' from their caravan site in N5 have every garnered is based on a web of deceit, lies and skullduggery. Their history is tainted as is every supporter that decides to pull on the red shirt and support the club that their father has for the last 3 years.
They can keep their souless new stadium, their prawn sandwiches, their ill gotten gains, and their Champions League exits in December. To me, and to all Spurs supporters that I know it's about what resides in your soul. It's feeling, no knowing, that the club is it's supporters and always has been. No amount of corporate bullsh*t will ever take it away. Arsenal decided to travel the low road many, many years ago. Judgement day is coming boys.
From the early days as mentioned in the article above to the present day Spurs and Arsenal have always had good reason to dislike each other (to put it mildly).
Arsenal have always been the solid dependable team. Never getting relegated but also never setting the world alight. Apart from a brief liason with success in the thirties and again in the latter half of the century Arsenal have plodded along. Spurs were seen by many as the fancy dans. The double winning side of the 60's was the epitomy of the 'fancy dan' tag. And this rankled with alot of Arsenal supporters.
What annoyed alot of gooners further was that Spurs proved that you could win things whilst playing attractive football. They were the first English team to win a European trophy and dominated the domestic scene during the 60's almost to the same extent that Arsenal had during the 30's but with more style.
Even down to the types of players that each club would sign the writing was on the wall. Whilst Spurs had Mike England, Alan Mullery, Martin Peters,and Martin Chivers during the 70's Arsenal supporters had to make do with watching the likes of George Graham, Frank McClintock and the like. Even Nick Hornby in his celebrated book "Fever Pitch" admitted that Arsenal were boring.
And whilst Arsenal enjoyed some considerable success during the 80's it was based on the dour 1-0 win. Grinding teams into the ground with sideways passes and the inevitable raising of hands in unison for offside. Arsenal's success during this time was better than Tottenham's but Spurs supporters could revel in cavalier attacking and 40 yard balls being sprayed about by Glenn Hoddle. The closet Arsenal got was a spell when Liam Brady threatened to break ranks and play attractive football. It did not last.
Even when Arsenal did win things it was over shadowed by Spurs. 1991 and Arsenal won the league title. But this was hardly newsworthy as a bankrupt Spurs team swept to the FA Cup final on an injured genius.
It has only been of late that Arsenal have tried to play the Spurs way. Players like Bergkamp and Henry play the game the way it should be, but last season without Henry Arsenal reverted back to type and chose to grind out draws, especially at home, which nearly cost them a place in this years Champions League.
The philosophy of both clubs are polar opposites. They are as different as black and white and chalk and cheese. Most Arsenal supporters these days (backed up by the supporters 'performances' at home and, on the odd occassion they do travel, away) are of the Sky generation. Glory Hunters with TH14 emblazoned across their brand new shirts, purchased from a retail park fifty miles away from their souless new home. They are the sort that would never stand up at a match, let alone sing less they spill their Merlot on their 'Official matchday programme'. They revel in the banal.
Spurs have no glory hunters. For the best part of the last 20 years Spurs supporters have had no glory to hunt. The large majority of their support is local. They are the types to spend many an hour in the pub debating the (lack of) skills of Ian Moores and Ralph Coates as they are to be seen to debate the likes of Berbatov and Keane. Spurs and it's supporters are stacked in history and they are proud of it (as these series of articles proves). Fond memories of trips to Burnden Park, Roker Park and the Baseball ground are often recollected. To the current crop of Arsenal supporters those places have no meaning. And that's the way I like it.
Every trophy, evey piece of silverware, and every drop of kudos that 'them lot' from their caravan site in N5 have every garnered is based on a web of deceit, lies and skullduggery. Their history is tainted as is every supporter that decides to pull on the red shirt and support the club that their father has for the last 3 years.
They can keep their souless new stadium, their prawn sandwiches, their ill gotten gains, and their Champions League exits in December. To me, and to all Spurs supporters that I know it's about what resides in your soul. It's feeling, no knowing, that the club is it's supporters and always has been. No amount of corporate bullsh*t will ever take it away. Arsenal decided to travel the low road many, many years ago. Judgement day is coming boys.
Re: Spurs - Sick as a Parrot (or why we hate Arsenal)
Posted by: Pete27 (IP Logged)
Date: 03/07/2007 09:22
You're allegedly supposed to mellow with age, as you get older.
But as time goes by, I hate those @#$%& with a greater intensity, upon each passing day.
But as time goes by, I hate those @#$%& with a greater intensity, upon each passing day.
Re: Spurs - Sick as a Parrot (or why we hate Arsenal)
Posted by: whitesocks (IP Logged)
Date: 03/07/2007 12:14
"I mean 88 years not out is pathetic"
tonysaunders needs to re-read the article.
It is 88 years not in.
tonysaunders needs to re-read the article.
It is 88 years not in.
Re: Spurs - Sick as a Parrot (or why we hate Arsenal)
Posted by: tonysaunders (IP Logged)
Date: 03/07/2007 12:27
Well, I have to say that I’m impressed. I thought I was going to get effed and blinded right off of here, but I’ve got to give you Spuds credit. You proved me wrong.
However, Matt (hope you don’t mind the familiarity) although I appreciate you taking the time to compile a well balanced argument, there are a few things I have a problem with;
“Apart from a brief liason with success in the thirties.” A brief liaison?! Well excuse me, but if a “brief liaison with success” constitutes five league titles in seven years, and two F.A. Cups, then how can Tottenham really claim to have ever had any ‘glory years’? From what I can see, throughout their history, Spurs have won sixteen top flight competitions. In the thirties alone, Arsenal won (nearly) half of that figure (twelve if we’re counting Charity Shields – which we’re not). So explain to me, how is it that we have had “brief liaisons with success” and yet Tottenham’s history is full of glory? It stinks of hypocrisy, and I am not at all surprised. Nothing personal, but this is the kind of narrow-minded argument that I have come to expect from many Spurs supporters.
“and again in the latter half of the century.” So we have had “brief liaisons” with success in the “latter half of the century”? Let’s look at this in detail; in the latter half of the twentieth century, Arsenal won thirteen trophies – nearly the total Spurs have allotted in their entire history. And yet, Spurs are famous for the “glory years”. I know that you guys are of the opinion “boo, Arsenal are evil, hissss, hissss” but I’m sure you’re not stupid people – if Arsenals success has come in “brief liaisons” then how can Spurs have had any “glory years.” How hypocritical Spurs fans can be really makes me laugh sometimes.
“Arsenal have plodded along.” I think I’ve made how I feel known in the pervious paragraphs. Throughout the twentieth century, Arsenal have had a higher average league position than any other team. Fact (http://arseweb.com/99-00/century.html#overall). Now I’m not saying that makes us the ‘Team of the Century’ but I am saying that ignorant statements like “Arsenal have plodded along” really sound very silly indeed.
“dominated the domestic scene during the 60's almost to the same extent that Arsenal had during the 30's but with more style.” So a few F.A Cup wins and one league trophy in those ten years constitutes “domination”? Give me a break.
And that’s about it. I don’t have Tottenham. I did when I was at school, but that’s only because I went to a school in the Tottenham area. I’ve grown up a lot since then, and I can see Tottenham for what they are now. I reiterate I don’t hate them; I am almost indifferent to them. It’s ignorant statements like this that make me choose to voice my opinion on a Spurs page. Normally I wouldn’t waste my time.
And I wasn’t just being an @#$%& hole for being an @#$%& hole’s sake earlier on. I honestly do believe that there is a huge inferiority complex inside many Spurs fans that leads them to go on the defensive about their team’s history. Why do I say this? Because I’m sue there are a lot of bloody clever Spurs fans out there, but making points like the ones I’ve pointed out really doesn’t make you lot sound all that clever.
Sorry about the rant. I’ll leave you all alone now. Keep it up with the balanced arguments though.
Come on you Gunners!
However, Matt (hope you don’t mind the familiarity) although I appreciate you taking the time to compile a well balanced argument, there are a few things I have a problem with;
“Apart from a brief liason with success in the thirties.” A brief liaison?! Well excuse me, but if a “brief liaison with success” constitutes five league titles in seven years, and two F.A. Cups, then how can Tottenham really claim to have ever had any ‘glory years’? From what I can see, throughout their history, Spurs have won sixteen top flight competitions. In the thirties alone, Arsenal won (nearly) half of that figure (twelve if we’re counting Charity Shields – which we’re not). So explain to me, how is it that we have had “brief liaisons with success” and yet Tottenham’s history is full of glory? It stinks of hypocrisy, and I am not at all surprised. Nothing personal, but this is the kind of narrow-minded argument that I have come to expect from many Spurs supporters.
“and again in the latter half of the century.” So we have had “brief liaisons” with success in the “latter half of the century”? Let’s look at this in detail; in the latter half of the twentieth century, Arsenal won thirteen trophies – nearly the total Spurs have allotted in their entire history. And yet, Spurs are famous for the “glory years”. I know that you guys are of the opinion “boo, Arsenal are evil, hissss, hissss” but I’m sure you’re not stupid people – if Arsenals success has come in “brief liaisons” then how can Spurs have had any “glory years.” How hypocritical Spurs fans can be really makes me laugh sometimes.
“Arsenal have plodded along.” I think I’ve made how I feel known in the pervious paragraphs. Throughout the twentieth century, Arsenal have had a higher average league position than any other team. Fact (http://arseweb.com/99-00/century.html#overall). Now I’m not saying that makes us the ‘Team of the Century’ but I am saying that ignorant statements like “Arsenal have plodded along” really sound very silly indeed.
“dominated the domestic scene during the 60's almost to the same extent that Arsenal had during the 30's but with more style.” So a few F.A Cup wins and one league trophy in those ten years constitutes “domination”? Give me a break.
And that’s about it. I don’t have Tottenham. I did when I was at school, but that’s only because I went to a school in the Tottenham area. I’ve grown up a lot since then, and I can see Tottenham for what they are now. I reiterate I don’t hate them; I am almost indifferent to them. It’s ignorant statements like this that make me choose to voice my opinion on a Spurs page. Normally I wouldn’t waste my time.
And I wasn’t just being an @#$%& hole for being an @#$%& hole’s sake earlier on. I honestly do believe that there is a huge inferiority complex inside many Spurs fans that leads them to go on the defensive about their team’s history. Why do I say this? Because I’m sue there are a lot of bloody clever Spurs fans out there, but making points like the ones I’ve pointed out really doesn’t make you lot sound all that clever.
Sorry about the rant. I’ll leave you all alone now. Keep it up with the balanced arguments though.
Come on you Gunners!
Re: Spurs - Sick as a Parrot (or why we hate Arsenal)
Posted by: Plug (IP Logged)
Date: 03/07/2007 12:53
I think Tony, you have a point to a degree, however, the main thrust of Matt's post was about style, and the belief in the way the game should be played. I know that many modern day commentators would laugh at such things, however, it is a proud and justified tradition at Spurs. The most angry you will see us as fans is not when we lose, but when we do so with no style.
As you will see, many of us can be appreciative of the football played by the likes of Nenry, Bergkamp and Brady, so we are not blinkered. However, we do not have an inferiority complex generally, because we have different standards.
In general, you will not get people abusing you on here, as long as you are friendly...we have at least one Arsenal fan who visits here and doesn't get abused. However, like all boards, we have different opinions, so I cannot speak for everyone
My old man said be an Arsenal fan.....Now how did the rest of that song go?
As you will see, many of us can be appreciative of the football played by the likes of Nenry, Bergkamp and Brady, so we are not blinkered. However, we do not have an inferiority complex generally, because we have different standards.
In general, you will not get people abusing you on here, as long as you are friendly...we have at least one Arsenal fan who visits here and doesn't get abused. However, like all boards, we have different opinions, so I cannot speak for everyone
My old man said be an Arsenal fan.....Now how did the rest of that song go?
Re: Spurs - Sick as a Parrot (or why we hate Arsenal)
Posted by: whitesocks (IP Logged)
Date: 03/07/2007 13:51
Brady is very very nasty.
I hope he rots in jail.
I hope he rots in jail.
Re: Spurs - Sick as a Parrot (or why we hate Arsenal)
Posted by: MattoftheSpurs (IP Logged)
Date: 03/07/2007 14:13
Also alot of what I wrote (not the general gist, however) was done in with tongue firmly in cheek.
"A brief flirt with success" for instance was a pi$$ take.
And when I say 'plod along' I mean just that. Finishing in the top half alot of the time is not mean legend to be emblazoned across the stadium, if you know what I mean.
And the last thing I would ever proclaim to be (well, after being a woman) is that I'm clever.
Quite the contrary, in fact. But we work with what we are given.
"A brief flirt with success" for instance was a pi$$ take.
And when I say 'plod along' I mean just that. Finishing in the top half alot of the time is not mean legend to be emblazoned across the stadium, if you know what I mean.
And the last thing I would ever proclaim to be (well, after being a woman) is that I'm clever.
Quite the contrary, in fact. But we work with what we are given.
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