Spurs Article - Jols Gamble

Exciting times indeed! Let's hope that some of us can contain our excitement without lapsing into thinly veiled criticism in every sentence.

Nice article Glenda, thanks very much for taking the time to put your views across.

In regards to the amount paid for Bent, I think Jol would have had very little to do with this.

Jol has obviously identified someone who he would like in his team, it is then down to Commoli and Levy to secure the player within their budget. £16.5 million is obviously within their budget.

Yes, Martin Jol has to get the best from the player, the same way that Hoddle needed to get the best from Rebrov and failed (in my opinion). However, as with the Rebrov case, some burden of performance does lay at the feet of the player of course.

It could be said, as pointed out by your article re our goalscoring record last season, that Jol does get the best from his strikers. Berbatov, Keane, and Defoe all performed admirably when selected. I think that if there is a test of Jol's coaching ability this season then it will be how the defence shapes up.

As you have pointed out scoring goals was not the problem but conceding them was. No one can argue that we don't have the defensive players at Spurs and as a unit they should be defending better.

I would expect Bent to take time to settle in, and would not be surprised if he had not scored after the first 5-10 games. Having said that I would also not be surprised if he scored hatfuls in his first few games. He is certainly capable.

The money spent by the board, and the fighting words of the players and especially Martin Jol at the final game of last season has certainly given the supporters some cause for optimism. It is a big step up from 5th to 4th (or higher) and it's time for all concerned at the club to see if they are capable.

What I would not like to see is the supporters not giving Jol and his team more time. If, God forbid, that Spurs are sitting middle of the table in early October I would hope that most reasoned supporters would understand that there is still a long way to go in the season. If anything last season amply proved that when after the Sheffield United away match of the last term Spurs were sitting 11th in February. Admittedly Spurs went on a run of Championship winning form but then we all know that the team we love is capable of that.

I look forward to the new season with excitement tempered with the knowledge that we have seen so many false dawns down the years. The Premiership top 4 is getting harder and harder to break into and only a conserted effort from all involved (and that includes supporters) will see us mount a challenge on the so called 'big 4'.

Edited by admin



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007:07:02:10:00:29 by Dave P.

*Shakes head in complete disbelief and awaits World War III*



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007:07:02:07:32:15 by MattoftheSpurs.

I'm guessing this is a wind-up right?



My old man said be an Arsenal fan.....Now how did the rest of that song go?

from another thread;

Quote:

Posted by: yidtastic or HH
Date: 02 July, 2007 06:44


Bent is better than Keane or Defoe, they should let defoe go now as he is better off at wet spam

I sense a troublemaker - banned

===================================
Dave P - (aka Shelf Side Dave)

Formerly of here - now of NLP

Nicely spotted Dave.

Fella must be a riot at parties.

Can't you edit that fools post?

Glenda,

Your comment that Defoe has scored more goals for us than Keane is false. If you look at the goals to games, Keane is ahead of Defoe.

And if you look at their goals to games in the prem there is sizable gap between Keanes's record and Defoe's.

You can say Defoe has spent 10 months in the bench for spurs, but in Jol's forst 10 months Keane was on the bench, so it evens out.

Defoe doesn't even score as many goals as Keane, not to mind the rest of it.

Choda

Matt

I take issue with you in relation to the patience factor. I would say for sure that Jol has done more than enough to deserve the confidence shown by Levy and Comolli but I would say that he cannot afford anything other than at least a good start.

For me Glenda's piece is right to a point. I think Defoe has been given chances but I don't think he has shown enough for Jol not to plunder the transfer market in this manner. I do think letting Defoe leave without an able replacement would be rightly labelled as Jol's gamble.

We shall see but I don't think we can afford an average start.

Choda Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Glenda,
>
> Your comment that Defoe has scored more goals for
> us than Keane is false. If you look at the goals
> to games, Keane is ahead of Defoe.
>
> And if you look at their goals to games in the
> prem there is sizable gap between Keanes's record
> and Defoe's.
>
> You can say Defoe has spent 10 months in the bench
> for spurs, but in Jol's forst 10 months Keane was
> on the bench, so it evens out.
>
> Defoe doesn't even score as many goals as Keane,
> not to mind the rest of it.
>
> Choda


Choda

I said Defoe has a better scoring record and he does.

Keane 202 games - 87 goals = 43% goals per game.

Defoe 120 Games - 54 goals =45% goals per game.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007:07:02:10:48:29 by glenda.

Quote:

I would say for sure that Jol has done more than enough to deserve the confidence shown by Levy and Comolli but I would say that he cannot afford anything other than at least a good start.

MS - You still got that leg twitch?

My point has never really been about the merits of Keane versus Defoe Versus Bent. My central point, is our strike force was our best department. I was surprised to find out it outscored all of the top 4 clubs.

It is our midfield and defence that is the problem. Darren Bent is a good player and a good addition to the squad if we rectify the other problem areas as well, then wonderful.

If we can't because of a lack of funds then I think it is a massive gamble.

IMO we still need 2 midfielders and another Defender, but not just any midfielder. Signing the right midfielder is the absolute key.

So MS, if Jol has lost 3 from the first 5 he should go?

Madness.

"Defoe 120 Games - 54 goals =45% goals per game"

Marginal win then for Defoe.

Keane offers more to the team, as I'm sure Bent will prove too.

The gamble isn't just Jol's, it's the club's including Levy & Comolli. The fact they've splashed this amount on a striker, when this position isn't a priority. There are other areas of the side that need improving before we can challenge for the top 4, Bent IMO won't make this difference, although I believe he'll score 15-20 goals and prove to be a decent signing.

Matt

And I did not say that but for sure if we lose 3 out of the first 5, and for argument's sake draw one of the other two then 4 points out of 15 would not be good.

I have not said Jol would or should be sacked but Jol himself will know, but may not say that 4th this season without a cup might not be good enough.

It is all relative but as things stand we have improved our squad more than Arsenal and Liverpool even if they get Torres.

"It is our midfield and defence that is the problem. Darren Bent is a good player and a good addition to the squad if we rectify the other problem areas as well, then wonderful"

Agree.

"If we can't because of a lack of funds then I think it is a massive gamble"

Absolutely, nothing against Bent, Comolli & Jol's decision.

"IMO we still need 2 midfielders and another Defender, but not just any midfielder. Signing the right midfielder is the absolute key"

Yep, a left winger and a 'special' player in CM, not necessarily a flair player either. Mascherano would be perfect for example.

Lol, you took Defoe's prem appearances and his goals in all comps for spurs.

Here are the exact stats off the official website.

Total goals for spurs:

Keane 191 appearances - 79 goals = 1 goal every 2.41 games
Defoe 141 appearances - 53 goals = 1 goal every 2.66 games

Prem goals for spurs:

Keane 161 appearances - 65 goals = 1 goal every 2.47 games
Defoe 120 appearances - 39 goals = 1 goal every 3.07 games

These are telling stats on the common myth that Defoe scores more goals than Keane. He doesn't even do that.

I thought the article overall was very good and interesting, apart from that.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007:07:02:13:26:51 by Choda.

Quote:

I have not said Jol would or should be sacked but Jol himself will know, but may not say that 4th this season without a cup might not be good enough.

What planet are you on? 4th would not be good enough in what way exactly?

I have got different stats. I will have to check them out. When I have got more time.

"he cannot afford anything other than at least a good start. "

This is a bit wishy-washy.
What position do we need to be in after how many games for it to be a good start?

Can we convict after the first game?
A home defeat against A*se? Would that be the last straw?
Does Jol get until November to get us in the top 4?
If Berbs or King or Lee is injured, does he get more time?

For me, if we qualify for europe again, and give the top 4 a run for their money, this is an acceptable minimum. Is it reasonable to expect much more given the capacity limitations?

Hypothetically if you were leading the Jol out group MS, worst case, when exactly do you think you would be able to speak up here and be heard sympathetically?

I am not leading the Jol out brigade at all even if I reserve the right to laud him as 'man to do it' quite yet.

We need a good start because last season's poor start ultimately did it for us. At no point were we really able to put pressure on the top 4 or 5 positions.

I just think we are near to having the personnel we need and now it is about Jol showing his coaching prowess.

Arguably there are only a couple of players who need replacing now and given that I do not see why challenging for 4th and qualifying for Europe would quite be enough.

Sppony

I meant 5th. So I am on planet Earth thank you very much!!!