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He was awesome, I just hope he DOESNT do that for Argentina at the world cup

1. I dont like Argentina
2. If he plays a blinder, some bu-gger will buy him

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It has been discussed on here a while ago and I for one was that said that we can get by without him. In the premiership we will need the lad as he can create things and likes to run at people which we lack players like that. I have changed my mind and well done Jonas.

I hope we keep him

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If we can get a decent price for him then I'd sell, his final ball never fails to @#$%& me off.

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i!
If we can get a decent price for him then I'd sell, his final ball never fails to @#$%& me off.

His final ball has been leaps and bounds better this season. He's on 9 assists, tied for top of our squad with Guthrie (6 for the league 3 in the cup, all of Guthries are in the league). Oddly enough, Carrol is at 8 assists, putting him at 19 goals created this season (tied with Nolan 13 goals, 6 assists).

i think the final ball has improved a huge amount since around the time he got fully fit, following his early season problems. he's added a few assists in the last three months, hasnt he? the things which were always good about his game, strong running, great attitude, directness, hard to knock off the ball, all count for so much more when there is also end product, ie, dangerous balls into the box.
maybe the fact we've used a right winger more often lately has helped, as for a long time this season we did everything down the left hand side, which allowed defences to concentrate on doubling up on enrique and jonas.
whatever it is, he has been in great form and is a valuable member of our squad as we push for promotion.

next season? well, if/when we go up, i dont think anyone expects any huge signings this summer, so i'd keep him as he is good enough to hold down a first team place in the premier league. the choice isnt exactly between jonas and a young ryan giggs, is it?!

He's improved yes, but would you really turn down an offer of say, 5 million? His final ball needs to be spot on 8 times out of 10 in the top league.

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Quote:

i!
He's improved yes, but would you really turn down an offer of say, 5 million? His final ball needs to be spot on 8 times out of 10 in the top league.

I can't say I'd take 5 million. There aren't many whom you could possibly bring in to fill that gap. Even if we could find a left winger with the right ability on the right price, I think we'd be better served moving Jonas to the right side of the pitch where he belongs. While it's true his crossing still needs to improve, part of that is he's always on his wrong foot.

As lmk said, bringing in a proper right winger has helped take the defensive focus off our left side, which has helped Jonas to no small degree. Routledge widens the field as well, taking the focus off Jose and Jonas. Furthermore, ti lets us move Guthrie to the middle of the pitch where he can make space for the other players, because he's a threat going forward unlike Smudge.

great game great goal almost a great player !!! we need to keep him and hope he scores some more and improves his final ball or just gets a bit luckier with his crosses

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I think we should keep him for all the reasons already given. It was a great goal and hopefully will give him the confidence to score more.

Jonas

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He'd be too expensive to replace. Stuart Downing cost Villa 10M. He's on good form now, so who cares what he was doing last season?

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tunyc
He'd be too expensive to replace. Stuart Downing cost Villa 10M. He's on good form now, so who cares what he was doing last season?

well, we did have a huge long thread about how useful he would be this season, with strong opinions on either side. and we did only end that thread by agreeing to revisit once jonas had a run of games following his injury. that we didnt bother must mean we are all in agreement now, eh mate?

Its a tricky one. I hope he (and Colo) have a great world cup after taking us back up. It would be a risk in chancing their stock going down in the premier. His performances have been class but he will not be ghosting past wingers and full backs like he does in this league. We will then be having the same debates as we were last season, that we loved him and his work ethic but his end product was not great and he is on big wages.

Lots of if's and but's, like next season will be his third year and maybe he has really settled in but can we risk not offloading them and clawing in a big fee and wiping a massive amount off the wage bill. Combined they cost us around 14-15 mill and if the rumours are believed anywhere between 120-140k a week on wages. Would a joint bid of say 20-25 mill be too good to turn down. I really think so.

Can we risk losing the players as they could be the difference for us.

He will have a few people eyeing him already, most likely in Spain and Italy, and I would rather him go to a bigger club making a larger fee possible. Saying that I wouldnt take 5 mill as it would cost more to replace.

For him not going we have the fact that he is on top wages and only the top top clubs of those leagues could afford to match/better those wages.

Sure there will be a few twist and turns but Im just going to enjoy them playing for us at the moment and what will be will be in the summer. They are already heros I suppose for sticking by us (sure the money helps) and for hopfully getting us promoted. Im more looking forward to watching him in the world cup than England.

yeah, a twenty mil joint bid would be too large to turn down. that would only happen after a huge number of joints though. best realistic bids would only just cover outstanding liabiliites with wages and bonuses. would leave next to nothing in the pot for replacements. colo has wages reported at 4m a year, too much, so bids must be looked at just to ease the situation. jonas is reported to be on half of that, which is 'low' enough to want to hang on for me.

not sure how much i agree with what you say about jonas looking good because of the oppo mind. (and it doesnt sit well next to you saying you'd consider a bid of 20-25m, for a pair of players who found their level in the championship, does it? who'd pay even half of that if they werent good enough for the premier league?) but we cant really back that argument either way til we see him play better teams, so i for one hope he does that with us and that its in the premier league next year



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010:03:09:10:10:09 by lostmekeys.

Jonas was adept at beating players with his dribble last season in the PL, the biggest difference this year is his final ball. The ability to put a cross into the box doesn't change based on competition. Last season, Jonas couldn't cross the street. This season, he's at putting the ball into the box and finding passing lanes. Sure, Carroll and Lovenkrands will have harder times getting onto the ball next season, but the fact that the ball is reachable at all is the difference between then and now.

I can only speak for myself, lmk-but yes, we agree now. He's come good, quite good. I'm happy to eat my words at this point.

I have to disagree with the position that he can't do what he's doing now in the PL. He has the pace for it, he showed that last year. Now that he's settled in and has a more coherent team around him that has tactical stability I think we'd be likely to see the Jonas who gave ManUre fits in the first game of last season.

As for the 20M bid thing-you have to think in terms of what it would cost to replace them. A winger of comparable quality to Jonas costs 10M; to replace Colo with say, Cahill will cost even more. And if we simply offload them and bring in inferior replacements for the PL campaign, we're courting relegation again. Sure, we could get lucky and pluck another Bassong. Or maybe we'll end up with another Cacapa. If we get rid of all our significant wage earners we simply won't be competitive in the PL unless our scouts have become the best in Europe or we start playing hoofball.

That said, Colo is the worse investment of the two and we could probably get by without him if Williamson is good enough for the PL (looks like he may be).

Quote:

annie
I think we should keep him for all the reasons already given. It was a great goal and hopefully will give him the confidence to score more.

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lostmekeys
i think the final ball has improved a huge amount since around the time he got fully fit, following his early season problems. he's added a few assists in the last three months, hasnt he? the things which were always good about his game, strong running, great attitude, directness, hard to knock off the ball, all count for so much more when there is also end product, ie, dangerous balls into the box.
maybe the fact we've used a right winger more often lately has helped, as for a long time this season we did everything down the left hand side, which allowed defences to concentrate on doubling up on enrique and jonas.
whatever it is, he has been in great form and is a valuable member of our squad as we push for promotion.

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tunyc
I can only speak for myself, lmk-but yes, we agree now. He's come good, quite good. I'm happy to eat my words at this point.
I have to disagree with the position that he can't do what he's doing now in the PL. He has the pace for it, he showed that last year. Now that he's settled in and has a more coherent team around him that has tactical stability I think we'd be likely to see the Jonas who gave ManUre fits in the first game of last season.

I've got to agree with all that was said. He was always dangerous, just think what he did against Man Utd and Aston Villa last season to realise that he has the ability even at the top level. He's final ball has improved and hopefully the additions of some goals to his game will make him a key player for us next season.

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Wasim's Sport Blog

Toon4life

IF we get a decent bid then both will go, Ashley is wanting a wage structure and both are out of it, the money could be invested in younger untested players in the premiership. Though to me I would give Jonas the extra season in the premiership as his game as improved, ok in the fizzy pop league. The reasons I would keep him is for his pace and being able to get the ball up the pitch as we know we are going to be under a lot of pressure in most games and we lack pace in the centre.

Atleast Jonas will give the players time to get back into position. He also links well with Enrique and next season we could have one of the best wing left side in the premiership outside of the european positions. We keep talking that he needs to get goals and improve his last ball but I think he is going to be one of those players that will always be that little inconsistent. But with the free kicks he wins as well then he brings other things to the team, next season we have people who can actually take them unlike the season we went down.

Jonas may be on high wages but I would look to get rid of the other big earners first, Smith, Nolan and the rest of them that will struggle in the premiership. Regarding Colo, he has been great this season and looking a good defender but his wages are stupid and I think he could be more easily replaced, if the bid was right I would let him go.

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I agree with most that has been posted since mine boys and girls but Im playing devils advocate. These are situations that could happen and Im discussing them, not saying I want them to happen.

If a top club came in could we say no on a few levels? How do hold a player back and can we turn down big money?

I never once said that these players have found their level but look at how many players take the p155 in this league then get shown up once promoted. Totally agree that Jonas is a lot better than most wingers in the premier and is helped by a more solid team and a good fullback behind him.

The amounts they would fetch would massively depend on the world cup they have and the clubs that come looking. Suppose that comes hand in hand though. Do you really think 20 mill is so far out of reach? Both are still highly regarded outside of the premier. Colo was one of the top performing CB in the Spanish league when we signed him. Jonas is one of the first names on the team sheet for Argentina and we all know who picks that team.

Like I say, ifs and buts.

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Biffins Bridge
The amounts they would fetch would massively depend on the world cup they have and the clubs that come looking. Suppose that comes hand in hand though. Do you really think 20 mill is so far out of reach? Both are still highly regarded outside of the premier. Colo was one of the top performing CB in the Spanish league when we signed him. Jonas is one of the first names on the team sheet for Argentina and we all know who picks that team.
Like I say, ifs and buts.

Fully agree a good world cup gets a big move, so many players prove it, both are suited to playing in Spain and both would interest premiership clubs if both performed at the biggest stage in the world. Colo is still viewed as a good defender and the praise that Maradona gives Jonas, and will always play under him would interest some clubs.

As I said due to wages I would let Colo go, keep Jonas unless we get a total stupid bid and we can bring in a quick, young lad who has potential, who is on low wages

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dont you get the idea that clubs outside of the absolute elite (man city and madrid/barca...few others if any) are less likely to spend as much as they did a year ago though biff? of course, length of outstanding contract and teh motivation of the seller will do as much to determine the price as the actual quality of the player, but considering all these things i really cant see a joint bid for both even beating what we paid for them, something around 16m. i dont really see more than 12m being realised, if im honest here.

and you must see where i'm coming from, however i paraphrased, in one breath you suggested jonas wouldnt do well in the premier league and also that he would be a sought after signing enough to make us a profit on what we paid, in fact a large profit?

the way i see this, we overpaid for colo, we got jonas at a decent to top-end price, and we gave both of em wages higher than they would have got elsewhere. the last part of that could be crucial, if deals are lined up but fall down because one or both of them doesnt want to take a pay cut. all a bit far off just yet mind, i suppose

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Biffins Bridge
Its a tricky one. I hope he (and Colo) have a great world cup after taking us back up. It would be a risk in chancing their stock going down in the premier. His performances have been class but he will not be ghosting past wingers and full backs like he does in this league. We will then be having the same debates as we were last season, that we loved him and his work ethic but his end product was not great and he is on big wages.

I'm sorry Biffins but I disagree with you. Here is a video with 40 mins worth of Jonas ghosting past wingers and Full backs countless times in the Premier League last season. All that is missing was a better end product, which this season he has undoubtedly improved upon.

[www.zshare.net]

As for Colocinni, he has been amazing this season. Different class. He just needed one full season to be fully adapted to English football and not that circus which was last season. He's 3rd in my rankings behind Enrique and Smith for player of the season.

I think people are taking my post the wrong way. Like I said Im playing devils advocate and he wont ghost past players like he does in this league. That is just a fact because of the standard but Im not saying he isnt going to be an important/successful for us.

I also said that can we risk losing him because he could make the difference.

Ive got no doubt that that both Jonas and Colo moved to the club at possibly the worst time. The confidence and expectation of Keegan's return was quickly snuffed out and most of the teams heads went down. The two years of settling in the country/area and the confidence of a, hopefully, championship winning season will do the pair the world of good.

Colo has been class mate and is my number 2 behind Jose.

devils advocate - take an unpopular point of view you may not agree with, in order to spark debate.

biff - take both sides of the debate and stress you didnt mean one of them afterwards, when people disagree with you.

haha, relax biff mate

It is amazing how Harper isn't getting a top 3 place for player of the year, he has kept an awful lot of clean sheets

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TOONTILLIDIE
It is amazing how Harper isn't getting a top 3 place for player of the year, he has kept an awful lot of clean sheets

I think part of it is that other teams just haven't had that many shots on goals, so despite all the clean sheets, his save percentage isn't that high. That's not to say I don't agree with you, but rather that people are not giving him as much credit for the clean sheets as the back four and Smithy have for controlling the defensive third.

I think another part of it, is people are high on Krul after seeing his great saves at WBA in the first match, and we've seen Harper in the past. We all knew that Harper was a decent mid-table keeper for the PL from years prior, we had no idea how good Krul was.

Enrique has been my #1 this season, without question. His play has been consistent in all three phases of the game. His partnership with Jonas made our left side one of the most dangerous tandems in the league while also completely locking out almost all attacks that start on that side of the pitch.

Colo gets #2, though I would have chosen Steven Taylor if he hadn't gotten injured. The two CBs have been nothing short of superb, and both have shown the type of leadership that is needed from the heart of the defense. I don't think Williamson could have settled in to the squad as easily as he did if he started playing in September or October instead of January and February. Colo has gotten comfortable with the physicality; and honestly, although the Championship is slower than the PL, it's more physical than the top tier. Last season, Colo would fall down when someone pushed him, thinking he could draw a foul; this year he just pushes back.

I like it LMK.

big up biffins bridge!

me, you, and nico, are on a wavelength mate

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waffles

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TOONTILLIDIE
It is amazing how Harper isn't getting a top 3 place for player of the year, he has kept an awful lot of clean sheets

I think part of it is that other teams just haven't had that many shots on goals, so despite all the clean sheets, his save percentage isn't that high. That's not to say I don't agree with you, but rather that people are not giving him as much credit for the clean sheets as the back four and Smithy have for controlling the defensive third.

I am not saying that Harper should be in the top 3, just wanted to know if was the case that the outfield player get noticed more than the goalie. I think he has had a great season, but you do make a good point, I would go for:
(1) Enrique
(2) Colo
(3) Smith

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jonas and to a lesser degree loven have been very good, and have been the important difference between winning and losing lots of games.
hard to pick a three like

It would be hard to pick three. With players like Carroll and Loven really stepping up when our season could have been derailed.

Same can be said for Rout (If only for a few games) and definatley Williamson who has stepped in so well for Taylor.

Nolan was looking nailed on but has dropped off. Saying that his performances, along with Taylor/Smith, were huge and really got our season going.

At the moment mine is

1.Jose
2.Colo
3.Carroll

Could easily change though by the end of the season.

loven is really being over looked i think when you consider the off field troubles the lads had must of been hard to stay focused

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