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a debate hopefully kind of football related
davenufc (IP Logged)
28 March, 2012 23:13
A lad was jailed today for 8 weeks for racist tweets. Now personally I find his views to say the least offensive.

I speak as a non english person who grew up with a fair degree of racism so I like to think I have a vested interest in this.

But should we really be jailing people merely for thoughts?

Is this not Insoc terroitory?

I refuse anymore to argue over the net, I did when I first was getting used to it and frankly I attacked a dutch lad. He was wrong, but no where near as wrong as me.

Thats why from then on I attempt to merely set out my views then take the path set out by Volitare namely I may disagree with you your wrong but I am happy to defend your right to be a @#$%& idiot.

Now Akin aside who I will still argue with constantly, people have offensive views. I would rather not listen to them and please dont annoy me with them.

Does this really deserve jail time though?

Re: a debate hopefully kind of football related
waffles (IP Logged)
29 March, 2012 00:31
I consider it an issue of the right to free speech. Hate speech isn't uncommon in the United States, and it bothers me a great deal; however, as you pointed to, Voltaire hit it on the head. The right to free speech is an important tenant of representative government, regardless of how ignorant it may be.

Re: a debate hopefully kind of football related
davenufc (IP Logged)
29 March, 2012 01:00
Again I agree, what is wrong with the right to be an idiot?

If they make it a crime, all of my local would be locked up, and frankly they are people I like.

Please understand I am not defending idiocy, but unless we are allowed to be wrong how can we ever find out what is right?

Re: a debate hopefully kind of football related
tunyc (IP Logged)
30 March, 2012 16:14
I agree with you, Dave. It's foolish behavior but that's hardly a reasonable limit on free speech-unlike the fact that you can't legally yell "FIRE!" for no reason in a crowded theater-people are allowed to be idiots if they so choose. I'd also worry, if I were in England, about the aggressivness of enforcement in this area as compared to others.

Re: a debate hopefully kind of football related
davenufc (IP Logged)
30 March, 2012 16:44
Actually the constant errosion of petty liberties and camera's everywhere are two of the main reasons my wife wants to leave, VAT at 20percent and torries back in charge are my two, but I suppose her ideals have always been a bit loftier than mine.

Britain now more than at any time in my life is approaching a police state.

A bit off topic now I will grant you, but its something I feel quite strongly about.

Re: a debate hopefully kind of football related
MissC (IP Logged)
31 March, 2012 15:27
From a few weeks back [url=http://[]]Sunderland Fan[/url]

Courts appear to be attempting to set an example - just a few years ago they would have laughed a facebook / twitter case out of court.

I think the difference between these two is that the jailed lad was @#$%& out of luck because Muamba was practically dying and there was public outrage by his comments (thus the courts needed to be seen to be doing something).

In Demba Ba's case with the idiot Sunderland fan - the press didn't jump on it, no-one knew until the day of court and there was minimal effort made to make it a matter of public interest.

In theory John Terry could end up in prison for whatever he allegedly said on the pitch - by saying everyone has right to free speech it condones racism.

Re: a debate hopefully kind of football related
Piston (IP Logged)
02 April, 2012 11:56
While heavy-handed, I don't think its too much of a bad thing really.
People will always think about whatever they like but this will make an idiot stop and think twice before putting it into words on a public forum.
This also manages the risk of racism-fuelled violence taking place if people, however stupid they may be, know the consequences.
As long as it doesn't affect other areas of reasonable free speech, I'm all for it.
Sometimes an idiot forfeits his normal rights when he voices inflammatory, worthless thoughts.
To me its the same concept as governing what people say in public places.
Twitter is for all intents and purposes, a public place, much like a cinema or an airplane. So you should be held accountable for your use / misuse of it.
It needs to be handled this way, regardless of what we think. Your country simply doesnt have the resources to deal with anything that has the potential to get too far out of hand, as was demonstrated by the london riots of last year.

In the same breath, and WRT some of you guys having a moan about the country you live in, excuse me for having a laugh as I live in South Africa and I'm sorry for your petty grievances but you really have it pretty damn good on that little island of yours.
I've been there a few times and I have many friends that side so from an outsiders perspective its still one of the better places to live.
Whatever you do, don't come here! You'll fkn regret it.
Also, never relinquish your British citizenship, you dont understand how valuable it is. I know a couple of expats who now wish they hadnt...

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/04/2012 11:58 by piston26.

Re: a debate hopefully kind of football related
tunyc (IP Logged)
02 April, 2012 21:09
The police state has already arrived here, with surveillance drones for domestic use and a president claiming the right to summarily execute any citizen he deems a threat in consultation with no one.

Erosion of the rule of law is on the cards all over the western world. Carys-what you "condone" aside, it comes down to this: do we have the right to say anything we want, assuming it doesn't directly impinge on the rights of others? Things like "public backlash" shoudln't figure into it. I would like to believe that when someone goes on trial, it's for a violation of a specific statute, not some diffuse sense of public morality. That's a slippery slope to get started on.

As long as it doesn't affect other areas of reasonable free speech, I'm all for it.

Good luck putting that genie back in the bottle.

On the other hand, we westerners don't want to admit how much our courts are just venues for relatively civil feuding and punishment of folks for violating public morality.

I think it should be-over here, I think it is but I don't know your system as well-completely legal to be stupid, immoral and even bigoted in your words. But I certainly don't expect it to be rewarded and would generally warn anyone that they shouldn't do it.

Re: a debate hopefully kind of football related
davenufc (IP Logged)
03 April, 2012 13:50
I have no doubt it is better here than in South Africa, however surely its only by protesting when you lose small liberties, that you get to keep the big ones.

Re: a debate hopefully kind of football related
tunyc (IP Logged)
03 April, 2012 16:21
Well put.

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