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Bury - CVA agreed and 12 point deduction confirmed
Discussion started by Aldo'smuzzy (IP Logged), 18 July, 2019 18:04
Aldo'smuzzy
Aldo'smuzzy
18 July, 2019 18:04
[www.efl.com]

We're now 12 points clear of the bottom two!

Glad the club has been saved for now but no sympathy at all from me if they bomb right back to League 2 after buying a promotion they couldn't afford and knew full well they couldn't afford.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 18/07/2019 18:08 by Aldo'smuzzy.

Borough Roaderd
Tranmere69
18 July, 2019 19:32
Why is the EFL so lenient when the FAW are really harsh with their punishments...'re Bangor City ?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 18/07/2019 19:33 by Tranmere69.

gary anderson
gary anderson
20 July, 2019 12:08
Think they got off lightly. I think them and bolton should have both been demoted to league 2 . With a 12 point deduction .you just know there gonna do it again

MESSAGES->author
BELMONT
20 July, 2019 13:23
Bolton and Bury fan groups are to appeal against the 12pts deduction because there are other mitigating circumstances behind their clubs failings and it is not the fault of the club's.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 20/07/2019 13:25 by BELMONT.

Tom Bombadil
Tom Bombadil
20 July, 2019 13:25
If this decision doesn't stick, they may as well rip up the rule book and say "do what you want and sod the others"

MESSAGES->author
hong kong rover
20 July, 2019 14:20
Quote:
Tom Bombadil
If this decision doesn't stick, they may as well rip up the rule book and say "do what you want and sod the others"


I fully agree with you, Tom.

DevonExile
DevonExile
20 July, 2019 16:35
I do not think that draconian punishments are of themselves the answer to clubs using CVA and administration as a a way of reducing debt but as the rules stand there is absolutely no grounds to justify an appeal.The EFL may be incompetent but it is not their job to micro manage individual clubs. Many small businesses could have been ruined by the mismanagement of both clubs and to reduce the punishment sends a poor message.
In both cases the problems are not over and the priority has to be staying in existence rather than an undignified appeal against the points deductions

MESSAGES->author
BELMONT
25 July, 2019 16:36
There other problems at Bury there safety certificate for their ground has yet to be passed on the plus side for them would be that the EFL can suspend Bury's fixtures at the start of the season under something call section 26 for period of time.

That would give Bury extra time and a later start to the season.

DevonExile
DevonExile
25 July, 2019 17:04
Equally they could be expelled

gary anderson
gary anderson
25 July, 2019 17:59
They face expulsion if they don't get there finances sorted out .don't know how long they got but there still in one hell of a mess as are bolton .both should be demoted .to ie ague tow or even the NL league .it's not the first time in Bolton case

Jack of all Trades
Jack of all Trades
25 July, 2019 19:35
This CVA Option is a joke.

The maximum any creditor can expect is 25% of the monies owed and whilst that is better than the usual 1% (if they are lucky),it is still a deliberate avoidance of paying in full.

I will give you any example which, I am aware of.

A small business creditor is currently owed £120,000.00 and has been for 18 months. In desperation with baliff's he managed to recover some of his property. What do Bury do, they call the police and report a theft.

Any sympathy for the fans who, happily jumped on the promotion band wagon at the expense of others, has sadly gone and if both Bury and Bolton fold it would very sad (Are Bury one of the original FL members?)but,it would be self inflicted over a number of years.

gary anderson
gary anderson
26 July, 2019 08:12
I wonder if it were tranmere in this mess we would get the time bury and bolton are getting to sort things out .I think not .both of these clubs should be demoted today one week till season starts and bolton got players still on strike bury lost most of there players what a bloody joke .I do feel for there fans but as been said by a few they rode the wave I'd success but now it's time to pay the price of buying promotion

paulbyron
paulbyron
26 July, 2019 09:03
bangor in the welsh league docked 42 pts that might be a wake up call if it happened here

gary anderson
gary anderson
26 July, 2019 09:30
Quote:
paulbyron
bangor in the welsh league docked 42 pts that might be a wake up call if it happened here
I totally agree.that would be one he'll of a wakeup call might make clubs think twice before they get into so much debt buying promotion.

MESSAGES->author
hong kong rover
26 July, 2019 11:25
Bolton are a traditional and historical club and one of the 12 founder members and I wouldnt be surprised if they have been shown some leniency because of this..at the moment, I think theyve got off very lightly.

Tom Bombadil
Tom Bombadil
26 July, 2019 14:28
I know they are not in the league anymore but you can add Notts County to the same list as Bolton and Bury now. Thats three fairly established historical name clubs going down the pan all at the same time. Including an ex Prem side and the oldest pro club in the game. EFL need to sort themselves out. These clubs need protecting from con men and ultimately themselves. Make the rules fair and punishments evenly dished out, the right people have to be in control. Money splashing has to be governed and closely monitored or there will be many more in the same position.

DevonExile
DevonExile
26 July, 2019 16:42
I agree with the sentiment but in the case of Bury it has been a succession of owners that have created the problems and the last one was not so much splashing cash as sucking out cash. Too much of the wealth in football is in the hands of the Premier league clubs and there is undue recognition of the importance of the pyramid both as a means of fostering future, nurturing referees, and ensuring that there is a strong geographical profile of the game across the country..
The EFL is no worse than the the Premier. League or the FA in terms of its stewardship but all are pretty inept in terms of setting clear operational standards.
Football is such a complex product. At one level fans are no more than consumers but without any of the normal market rules.We show brand loyalty even when the product is poor and many have no appetite for switching to a better product even if offered at the same price. Perhaps that is way the interests of fans often seems to be the last consideration.

ADD
ADD
26 July, 2019 18:23
I agree re Bolton and Bury but the fact of the matter is that CVA's happen all the time. Whether it a too easy way out is debateable but it does seem that for football clubs unlike a normal company they rely on the fact that the local community are all involved and generally supportive and therefore there is a degree of leverage against the creditors which would not be the case if ABC Co. were to try it.
The only financial difference with football is that the football creditors have to be paid in full. Everyone else as pointed out above gets so many pennies in the pound.
Ultimately the creditors will only agree a CVA if they think that they will be better off by approving it - nothing to do about it being a football club.
In Bolton's case there are people with deep pockets including FV circulating and likely the only reason it has not been sorted yet is that the hotel is covered by separate administrators and the hotel had loaned £750k to the football company so there is a debt between the two. The hotel sort of makes money or at least could do and there are apparently national hotel chains very interested who have no interest in the football club whilst FV only wants to buy Bolton if it can also buy the hotel....
In Bury's case however I think the EFL are looking more harshly at them because although the CVA has been agreed there is as far as I am aware no credible bidder emerging and so they want to see money from the current Owner who I assume hasn't got any/ enough to satisfy the EFL that they can pay all the players/ staff in full and can show sufficient funds to cover the next 2 years budgets... After all one of Bury's owners took out loans at over 100% interest rate secured on the ground and the car park has been sold in individual lots to "investors" so as far as I can see there are no assets/ land to buy at a sensible price since the secured lender (also in administration!)will need repaying! You couldn't make it up TBH and even the EFL must feel they have egg on their faces on this one!
ps apologies for the length of this post!

MESSAGES->author
BELMONT
26 July, 2019 18:54
They have had the ground just passed for health and safety and have been issued with the right paperwork/certification for games to be played for the next twelve months the next point is will they?

MESSAGES->author
BELMONT
27 July, 2019 12:32
See the Bury game is in doubt and may be suspended, the EFL have told both Bury and MKD that this may be the case if Bury fail to show that they have the funds to continue, this move is to give Bury more time.

gary anderson
gary anderson
27 July, 2019 12:54
What a farce suspending fixtures to give a club who got themselfs into a mess more time .they have had long enough time to just expel them it's getting stupid now

the kav
the kav
28 July, 2019 08:33
Was at Bolton's ground yesterday my word! Hardly any staff on the bar resulting in supporters getting fed up after a 45 minute wait and walking away and 6 buckets on the floor in the east stand catching rain from leaks in the roof. 3 stewards for a 8000 capacity stand . They really are cost cutting

DevonExile
DevonExile
28 July, 2019 08:47
When a club has been am member of the league for so long then a few weeks grace is reasonable

MESSAGES->author
Doogie'sGhost
28 July, 2019 11:22
Quote:
ADD
Ultimately the creditors will only agree a CVA if they think that they will be better off by approving it - nothing to do about it being a football club.

Nothing wrong with the length of the post, but this bit^^^ is the key. It's all covered by appropriate legislation and is a valid tool used by many businesses. The creditors get more than the nothing they would otherwise get that's why they do it.

By the way, the football creditors get payment in full has no basis in law. It is an FA/EFL regulation and not enforceable outside membership of those bodies. If, as some on here wish, the clubs in question were demoted and/or liquidated they would cease to exist. Their parent business would be wound up, the FA membership would be cancelled and all football creditors would get nothing. A new start up, phoenix club has no legal ties to the old entity and debts cannot be transferred to it. If you want to know the real reason why the FA/EFL appear to be lenient then in suggest you look no further.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 28/07/2019 18:50 by Doogie'sGhost.

Hoots Mon
Hoots Mon
28 July, 2019 18:07
Quote:
DevonExile
When a club has been am member of the league for so long then a few weeks grace is reasonable

Why? Every club should be treated the same.


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