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ming05
ming05 (IP Logged)

Promotion x2
12 July, 2019 11:17
Dear all

This isn't me saying it's to much or to soon, it's a open discussion on the merits and down sides to getting promoted right after each other.

Looking at the teams in league one they're a long way off from the teams of braintree, Halifax and even wrexham.

Have we moved to fast can we compete?

Or can we hold our own ?

What should we expect in this league , middle table or just stay up.?

Has the success surprised palios and their building for future ?

Please discuss and keep it pleasant.

Thank you

 
terribletid
terribletid (IP Logged)

Re: Promotion x2
12 July, 2019 11:41
It seems obvious to me that the additional promotion requires a more fundamental overhaul of the squad than we would have needed to compete in League 1.

This creates risks around the team spirit and harmony that have got us this far, but having better players is in itself also an opportunity.

Remember also - Mellon's record showed plenty of evidence that his techniques work in NL and L2. His experience in L1 is much more mediocre so he has more to prove now and that could also go either way (although hopefully he's got a bit more budget with us).

I suspect it all means that we have little idea how it's all going to come together and mid-table would be a good result next summer. I have a suspicion that we may initially struggle to generate creativity and goals while keeping it tight at the other end.

 
MESSAGES->author
Doogie'sGhost (IP Logged)

Re: Promotion x2
12 July, 2019 11:42
I think it is a valid concern for sure. I understand why some say consolidation is needed. We had far greater resources (even if not purely cash and playing budget) than most clubs in VNL, were one of the bigger clubs at L2 level and now we will have far less than the big boys in L1 but hold our own with the majority. We're about where we should be now. The Pallii have invested in our infrastructure rather than reduced the club's scale as well so that shouldn't be a big concern. There's no reason to suggest that we can't compete imo, but the question remains how many players that have been with us for a while can step up and how new signings will fit in and contribute. The new reality of the game in the lower leagues (and for many higher up) is that this is going to be a concern most off-seasons now.

Short of a sugar daddy level of investment (which brings its own concerns) that isn't changing because there will always be bigger clubs than us in this league. Why settle for mid-table and wasting a year when you will probably be in exactly the same position next year? Stick to MP's plan - top third budget, with good manager should lead to end of season contention for play offs at least. That's got to be the aim every season for me, while recognising that it may not always work.

 
Aldo'smuzzy
Aldo'smuzzy (IP Logged)

Re: Promotion x2
12 July, 2019 11:44
We've moved up very fast and possibly at least year ahead of many people's expectations. But I think the club is as prepared as it can be, Palios knows where we are in terms of the longer term plan, and I'm confident we'll be able to consolidate.

Worth noting that last season's L1 relegation battle had a dozen or so teams in it until the last couple of weeks of the season, so even a mid-table finish meant only just staying up. Could well be the same next season, though Bury will look nailed on for one of the relegation places if they go into admin and get a 12 point deduction (Bolton already have a deduction but they could easily catch up assuming they get the ownership sorted).

 
Aldo'smuzzy
Aldo'smuzzy (IP Logged)

Re: Promotion x2
12 July, 2019 12:03
Quote:
Doogie'sGhost

Stick to MP's plan - top third budget, with good manager should lead to end of season contention for play offs at least. That's got to be the aim every season for me, while recognising that it may not always work.

I agree, but the new investment that MP spoke about after Wembley is the next key part of that plan. I'm confident that'll come in time but, until it does, I doubt we'll be anywhere near a top third L1 budget.

 
andyc209
andyc209 (IP Logged)

Re: Promotion x2
12 July, 2019 12:29
MP was talking about 2 or 3 interested parties at Prenton Park since December (don't want to miss quote him but i am sure thats what he said) - not expecting big takeovers, any investment would be fantastic and i trust him implicitly to do the best for the club. But, in the back of my mind is the worry that they may come to nothing just as it seems the China/Mongolia thing has - 7 months they have been possibly looking at it and surely during the summer would be best time to invest if truly interested.

Not a moan, just a concern - understand this season we will have to stabilise a little and try to build revenues through being in the higher league.

 
Fiftyyearsarover
Fiftyyearsarover (IP Logged)

Re: Promotion x2
12 July, 2019 12:33
I have enjoyed the last 4years ,a blow dropping into NL but we became the big fish ,plenty of TV time ,got used to winning home and away culminating in 3 Wembley appearances 2promotions ,now we face reality ,small fish in a big pool ,not much funds ,Norwood gone which is a big problem ,lack of goals could be terminal ,without some heavy funding we will no doubt struggle but should have enough about us to stay up ,we are were we will hopefully stay not much chance off surviving the championship if we are ever lucky enough to get there it’s a different world from the likes of Peter Johnson ,he is with all respect a pauper in todays climate even championship teams spend mega bucks ,like in life the poor get poorer as the rich get richer .the money that goes into the PL is obscene it would help if some filtered down to the FL .Sunderland get 40,000+ most games I think we will average 7,000 ,so 30,000+ difference each home game ,money to attract and pay good players we can’t compete ,so to sum up without a goal scorer and some heavy investment we have reached our peak just hope the fans stick and keep turning up ,what’s the song supporters sing to others ,”you only sing when your winning “ lets hope not

 
MESSAGES->author
Doogie'sGhost (IP Logged)

Re: Promotion x2
12 July, 2019 12:51
Don't agree that we are a small fish. We are a middling size fish, in a pond that has a few tiddlers and whales in it as well!

 
Fiftyyearsarover
Fiftyyearsarover (IP Logged)

Re: Promotion x2
12 July, 2019 13:53
More like a salmon ,always swimming upstream Doogie,ghost

 
DevonExile
DevonExile (IP Logged)

Re: Promotion x2
12 July, 2019 17:39
Have to agree with Doogie. Whilst there are some big clubs in this division they are the minority and most are not significantly different from us. The challenge for us is managing the transition to consolidating our place. We are no smaller than a dozen or so clubs
It is getting value from our signings that will matter. It is highly likely that our wages bill will be similar to that group.It is who makes best use of resources,rather than level of spend that will discriminate with an that group.
First impressions are that are signings this year look like the mixture of inexperience and declining journeyman that was characteristic of our declining years years before demotion but they may turn out to be capable. If clubs like Rochdale and Accrington can survive at this level then we certainly can. Lack of resources may make promotion unlikely but it would not of itself explain any struggle that may emerge

 
Bored rover
Bored rover (IP Logged)

Re: Promotion x2
12 July, 2019 18:00
Unanswerable question, we can hold our own equally we can get relegated, equally could win the league, Notts Co were promotion favourites last season look now. Any team in the division could go down or go up thats what makes it tough

 
Tom Bombadil
Tom Bombadil (IP Logged)

Re: Promotion x2
12 July, 2019 18:13
Its an evolutionary thing. With our monetary constraints limited for what ever reason or another (compared to a lot of the sides in our league) Our aim is to build a squad that replaces None League and 2nd div players with 1st div and championship experienced players. The season we got relegated from Div1 was almost the opposite of this plan. We actually degraded the quality of our squad with loanees and rejects and the result was inevitable and irreversible.

The management at Tranmere has a plan, and has so far stuck to it as each target is achieved. It would be short minded to expect improvement to continue at the same pace that has so far been achieved because of that plan.

 
misterecoli
misterecoli (IP Logged)

Re: Promotion x2
12 July, 2019 18:16
To anyone looking in for other teams, and we would be the same, that’s exactly what they would think.

Jumping too fast too soon without a chance to really strengthen over a few seasons looks like our Achilles heel.

However, I think our approach has been correct, our defence is settled and strong, and hopefully we’ll be hard to beat (excuse the LFC result!)

I’m not convinced Norwood would be one of the top strikers in this league, and I couldn’t see us staying up on firepower alone. Maybe his loss has focused the mind on where we are, we’re not a big fish in the pond now, can we be a deadly submarine?

 
Borough Roaderd
Tranmere69 (IP Logged)

Re: Promotion x2
12 July, 2019 18:33
I'm not confident that we will take the league by storm but I do trust MP and MM.to do their utmost to give us a season to remember.

 
DevonExile
DevonExile (IP Logged)

Re: Promotion x2
12 July, 2019 20:11
We are not a big fish but nor are we a minnow. The period out of the league should not lead to a false perspective. In the last sixty years we have had periods we we have been competitive at league one level. babe cause we are in transition this could be a challenging year we are not in historically rarified territory



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 13/07/2019 13:32 by DevonExile.

 
Summerlander
Summerlander (IP Logged)

Re: Promotion x2
12 July, 2019 23:09
Can't wait for this season to begin. It's going to be such an exciting one for us all. Stating the obvious, none of us has a clue about what's going to happen, but we will by the end of the year. Last season we were starting to leak goals badly just prior to the January window and MM quickly righted the ship with his new signings, allowing him to drop Big Mac who was struggling with the increased pace of L2. I think it will be a similar scenario this time around and hopefully Mickey can work his magic again come January. I'll be happy with any finish that keeps us in L1 but don't think we're equipped this year to make another promo run. The big-money boys should command all of the important top spots - and it would be great for us to achieve at least mid-table, but there should be some great results along the way and let's hope for another good cup run to bolster our coffers. SWA

 
kennyspint
kennyspint (IP Logged)

Re: Promotion x2
13 July, 2019 00:02
Also waiting for the season to begin. Whatever happens were not playing Welling next season

 
aktrfc
aktrfc (IP Logged)

Re: Promotion x2
13 July, 2019 06:17
Just don’t get the negativity about just trying to stay up. We had this last year, and look what happened. It’s not like we haven’t been a championship club before, so why can’t we be again. Do you really think that if we just finish mid table this season, we would do any better the next? There is nothing to say so and nothing to say we can’t succeed this season. If I was to believe that our aim would be to just survive, then I don’t think I could bring myself to even go to the games.

 
DevonExile
DevonExile (IP Logged)

Re: Promotion x2
13 July, 2019 08:05
We were a championship club because we had an artificial budget and not a proper business plan that represented the sustainable. It brought a decade of success but also created the situation that led to inertia and the loss of league status and could even have threatened our existence.
Div 1 sustained represents us performing on a par with our fan base.
Give me that any day to playing roulette to achieve non sustainable ambition

 
Aldo'smuzzy
Aldo'smuzzy (IP Logged)

Re: Promotion x2
13 July, 2019 10:17
Quote:
aktrfc
Just don’t get the negativity.....
.....If I was to believe that our aim would be to just survive, then I don’t think I could bring myself to even go to the games.

Such positivity. (Sm151)

Seriously, a crack at the Championship might not be an unreasonable aspiration for the future, but it's hardy unreasonable to acknowledge that there are more immediate objectives on and off the pitch before that will realistically happen. I'm optimistic but it won't be easy and will probably take time, longer than a year. But the first aim for next season, as it was last season, is to ensure survival, then see where we go after that.

I don't for one second expect another promotion push this season but the thought of not attending games because of that hasn't entered my head. We might lose a few glory hunters if we're not challenging at the top end again after back to back promotions but I'd still expect the overall level of support to remain healthy and the bond that's been created between club and fans to remain strong - another reason to be optimistic that the club is building something sustainable.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 13/07/2019 11:15 by Aldo'smuzzy.

 
Re: Promotion x2
13 July, 2019 13:54
Surely any club worth its salt should be aiming for Champions/promotion every season, shouldn't they?

While we may not be the best resourced club in the division, it doesn't mean we can't achieve... or at least aspire to achieve.

Leicester were neither the strongest squad nor the best resourced club in the league when the were Prem champs, but they still won the thing.

 
AndyMase
AndyMase (IP Logged)

Re: Promotion x2
14 July, 2019 20:49
Quote:
TwelfthofMay-ResurrectionDay
Surely any club worth its salt should be aiming for Champions/promotion every season, shouldn't they?
While we may not be the best resourced club in the division, it doesn't mean we can't achieve... or at least aspire to achieve.

Leicester were neither the strongest squad nor the best resourced club in the league when the were Prem champs, but they still won the thing.
But i doubt their plan or goals were to win the league at start of season, It would have been a target of points for survival then when achieved probsbly top 10 finish

 
DevonExile
DevonExile (IP Logged)

Re: Promotion x2
15 July, 2019 11:52
Leicester was so unusual as to be memorable and probably unique. Promotion beyond the sustainable can be the ruin of many smaller clubs leaving long term problems when relegation follows.I will happily settle for being a competitive division club and enjoying it.If someone now offered me a decade at this level but without any prospect of promotion I would grap the offer

 
Bored rover
Bored rover (IP Logged)

Re: Promotion x2
15 July, 2019 17:36
Why is it negative to say people will be happy with survival. How many managers say it out loud every week in TV interviews. Unrealistic expectations cause more negativity than realism does, especially when people start calling for managers heads after a couple of defeats or being critical of signings that are not “marquee” and questioning a managers recruitment policy.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 15/07/2019 17:37 by Bored rover.

 
MESSAGES->author
Doogie'sGhost (IP Logged)

Re: Promotion x2
16 July, 2019 08:57
It's not negative to say that people will be happy with survival. Nearly everyone will be, this year, after back-to-back promotions. But, what about next year, or the year after that? We will have considerable squad turnover every year. So every year will be a year of consolidation, effectively, with new players bedding in. Every year will probably see us up against a number of far better resourced clubs than Rovers, either in terms of fan numbers, rich owners or parachute payments as well. When do we start to think about challenging?

Consolidation is almost the worst thing for a football club. It kills momentum and the feel-good factor around the place. There hasn't been such a generally positive vibe about PP and the fans since the trip to the moon. I don't believe the time for us to challenge in this division will ever be significantly better than it is now, so why settle for just survival? Try and compete, try and progress, within the overall plan and structure set out for the club and if survival turns out to be the best we can do accept it and go again next season, but don't just settle for that now. That's how you do end up going backwards.

 
Aldo'smuzzy
Aldo'smuzzy (IP Logged)

Re: Promotion x2
16 July, 2019 10:11
The aim of the team in every game is to win. We all want that.

The aim of the club is to be the best it can be - continually progress, develop its infrastructure and resources to give the team the best possible chance of achieving its aim of winning matches. We all want that too.

That does not mean the next aim is another immediate promotion. The next aim, as it will be for most clubs, is for both team and club to gain a solid foothold in this league. We might have achieved that by Xmas, might be March, might be the last game, but whenever it is we then set the next target, and so on. That's exactly the approach they took in the season just ended, Mellon and Palios have both said as much, so hardly negative.

Consolidation is an indisputable element of progress - ask anyone who's climbed Everest, for example, or even led troops into battle. It's not negative at all, and does NOT mean accepting mediocrity, or somehow only trying to win half your games, or taking your foot off the gas in the boardroom.

The worst thing for a football club isn't consolidation, it's unrealistic demands and expectations because that inevitably leads to poor decisions being taken which inevitably leads to clubs going backwards. If we finish, say, 10th next season, most of us would be chuffed but I sense some people on here would consider that failure. What then? Sack the manager, change the strategy, bust the bank, etc etc?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 16/07/2019 10:15 by Aldo'smuzzy.

 
Aldo'smuzzy
Aldo'smuzzy (IP Logged)

Re: Promotion x2
16 July, 2019 10:43
Just to add that Palios said in one of his interviews in the days after Wembley that 'the plan' envisaged five years to get back to L1 after we fell into non-league at the end of his first year in charge. Five years, not two - was that negative? We did it in four, not two, and everyone's delighted. So it's hardly negative to suggest that the aim for next year isn't necessarily another promotion


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