So the pampered millionaires of the GrabCash Premier League have given themselves a week off each winter to (no doubt) spend somewhere warm in a meaningless exhibition game. They are just too tired and 50 games a season is too many. Try doing a proper job you @#$%&...

Lower league teams will just have to accommodate their whims and play 5th round FA Cup ties midweek. No replays of course. Another nail in the coffin of a once great institution.

Rant over, but sometimes I do wish a Norman Hunter type would magically transport into the modern era and really give them something to moan about.

Quote:

Doogie'sGhost
So the pampered millionaires of the GrabCash Premier League have given themselves a week off each winter to (no doubt) spend somewhere warm in a meaningless exhibition game. They are just too tired and 50 games a season is too many. Try doing a proper job you @#$%&...
Lower league teams will just have to accommodate their whims and play 5th round FA Cup ties midweek. No replays of course. Another nail in the coffin of a once great institution.

Rant over, but sometimes I do wish a Norman Hunter type would magically transport into the modern era and really give them something to moan about.

+1

Yes spot on guys .it was only a matter of time .the mercenaries who come here to play have introduced diving ,cheating , fein death shirt pulling etc the managerial version of them have winged ever since they darkened our shores about the winter break .and have now got there way ,as in life in general now our way of life is being slowly taken away to accommodate our overseas chums .what ever happened to the saying “while in Rome do what the Romans do”

Quote:

Hoots Mon

Quote:

Doogie'sGhost
So the pampered millionaires of the GrabCash Premier League have given themselves a week off each winter to (no doubt) spend somewhere warm in a meaningless exhibition game. They are just too tired and 50 games a season is too many. Try doing a proper job you @#$%&...
Lower league teams will just have to accommodate their whims and play 5th round FA Cup ties midweek. No replays of course. Another nail in the coffin of a once great institution.

Rant over, but sometimes I do wish a Norman Hunter type would magically transport into the modern era and really give them something to moan about.

+1

+2. Next they'll all be wearing gloves, leggings and thermal hats to protect their precious little vulnerable bodies during the winter games they do have to play. Absolutely no sympathy for the over-protected, delicate, deluded bunch of prima donnas.
In the real world, I've had a particularly bad day at work (a bad week in fact) no one's going to ease the pain and offer me a break. Premier League Football reminds me more and more of a reality TV show; full of over-rated, mediocre, wannabes. F**k 'em!!

make that +3

+4

Our weather can be unpredictable so whoever picked them dates could be totally wrong .snow 2 weeks before or after would be great

lol at johnny englanders on here.

bring back mud baths for pitches, and what happened to the lace on the ball.

i think sam allardyce and sean dyche should dig up the bones of graham taylor and get english lads playing the english way in an english league. non of this fancy tika taka, flair and dribbling. get right up em. the english way.

Quote:

mrGr33n13
lol at johnny englanders on here.
bring back mud baths for pitches, and what happened to the lace on the ball.

i think sam allardyce and sean dyche should dig up the bones of graham taylor and get english lads playing the english way in an english league. non of this fancy tika taka, flair and dribbling. get right up em. the english way.

Guess your actually an LFC fan then...

i'm so against professional football i dont even like watching sunday league players unless they are on the dole mate. if they can afford shin pads i think they are ballerinas.


i actually boo tranmere players who pass the ball. who do they think they are, gianfranco pirlo?

jeff hughes and connor jennings are the result of foreigners darkening these wonderful shores with their geometric ways and fancy diets. @#$%& artisans.

Quote:

mrGr33n13
i'm so against professional football i dont even like watching sunday league players unless they are on the dole mate. if they can afford shin pads i think they are ballerinas.

i actually boo tranmere players who pass the ball. who do they think they are, gianfranco pirlo?

jeff hughes and connor jennings are the result of foreigners darkening these wonderful shores with their geometric ways and fancy diets. @#$%& artisans.

Yes but as you actually think the @#$%& who trash a pub full of innocent bystanders are top blokes and that violence is part and parcel of a normal night out we can discount your posts as the raving of the brain dead moron you clearly are.

Quote:

Loyden1
Our weather can be unpredictable so whoever picked them dates could be toti.ally wrong .snow 2 weeks before or after would be great

You beat me too it,just when as you state do they have the break.

Two weeks round Xmas,we now that period could be like spring warm and mild then Premiership restarts and the beast from east blows in again.

It's all about money two weeks or even a week then off they then the likes of Liverpool play Man U in Dubai or some other money making land of the sun.

It's not about resting but money.

[quote Doogie'sGhost]

jeff hughes and connor jennings are the result of foreigners darkening these wonderful shores with their geometric ways and fancy diets. @#$%& artisans.[/quote]
Yes but as you actually think the @#$%& who trash a pub full of innocent bystanders are top blokes and that violence is part and parcel of a normal night out we can discount your posts as the raving of the brain dead moron you clearly are.[/quote]

lol

i have never said violence is a part of any normal night out.

aggression however is common enough to be classed as normal in men. esp drunk men.

but it's always nice to be called a brain dead moron by someone who can't even understand what he has read. :p etc

Quote:

mrGr33n13
i'm so against professional football i dont even like watching sunday league players unless they are on the dole mate. if they can afford shin pads i think they are ballerinas.

i actually boo tranmere players who pass the ball. who do they think they are, gianfranco pirlo?

jeff hughes and connor jennings are the result of foreigners darkening these wonderful shores with their geometric ways and fancy diets. @#$%& artisans.

Hail the new pretender to the keyboard warrior crown.

Have no fear, even I, with my senses tainted, can see the purpose of your protagonism and antagonism; after all "you can't kid a kidder".
Your verbal pugilism has some semblance of a base, but I fear you wander too far from the beaten track and into unchartered waters, where the sharks await their prey.
I fear choppy waters and a bumpy ride for you. However, these may be the stimuli that "rock your boat" and provide fuel for your forays.
I suggest a peaceful sail into the sunset, rather than an all out battle on the waves.
However, rather than have you walk the plank, I say "All aboard".

Yes, I know......WTF

Good man, Phil.

You seem like the sort of bloke I'd enjoy having nice scotch with, sir.

Before or after putting the pub windows in 🎍😀

Quote:

Fiftyyearsarover
Before or after putting the pub windows in 🎍😀

😂

The roles are being amended so that clubs cannot play meaningless money making games during the break.or be fined more than they make if they do.

However, originally, the winter break was to address problem of extreme bad weather. Given that UK winter weather is from end of February to April.....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/06/2018 16:18 by 853OKG.

Can't remember which poster implied that dribbling was not traditionall but I think Stanley Matthews and Tom Finney to name but two would be an argument against. More recently Pat Nrvin and John Morrisey



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/06/2018 22:00 by kennyspint.

Quote:

kennyspint
Can't remember which poster implied that dribbling was not traditionall but I think Stanley Matthews and Tom Finney to name but two would be an argument against. More recently Pat Nrvin and John Morrisey

Players don't dribble nowadays. They spit at every opportunity..... ;0)

Why the negative comments about the players at Premiership level? Surely it is the clubs that are responsible? It will be a business decision and that is all. The players simply play when and where their employer demands

Quote:

Eric01 Tranmere
Why the negative comments about the players at Premiership level? Surely it is the clubs that are responsible? It will be a business decision and that is all. The players simply play when and where their employer demands

Premiership players (and their agents) are just pawns for their employers? Mmmmm, that's an interesting concept, millionaire skivvies; next they'll be cleaning their own boots! Ah well, at least they'll be made to earn their money, bless 'em.
Most, if not all, premiership players (and this is a massive underestimate for some) are earning more in one year than a nurse, teacher, paramedic etc. will earn in their whole working career and none of the aforementioned will be enjoying early retirement in their mansion or to attend to their estate. Empathy/sympathy for the precious, pampered, premiership commodities....not from me my friend.
If there are any survivors of an apocalyptic event, in the dark days that follow, let's hope there's a Premier League footballer amongst them to enable the regeneration of humanity and the world; after all, we couldn't do without them, their value to society and unique talents.
And another point, if their were aliens, surely they would have abducted one of our most valuable assets by now to explore the intelligent life on Earth; perhaps the Premier boys are aliens, come to milk us and develop their knowledge (still a long way to go for some in this respect!). Very generic I know, but can you imagine University Challenge with teams of footballers, with Rooney as one of the captains; I think it's more likely to be titled "Universally Challenged". Harsh, but true for some. Those poor footballers will be having a meltdown now!

Sorry, I've had my fun now at the expense of those poor unfortunates. I hope I'm forgiven.

Disclaimer: Some Premier League footballers possess intelligence, contribute positively to society e.g. supporting charitable causes, are not aliens, may know some of the answers on University Challenge and may have a valuable contribution to make (however small) after an apocalyptic event.

spot on, Phil.

although 'earning' should be replaced with 'are being paid'!

I guess it has cost even Man City between £1M and £5M per goal scored last season, maybe more.

It has to be said Dick Turpin had the decency to wear a mask these players have no compunction taking £250.000 a week in some cases and can’t be arsed making an effort .as I said before ,the only thing these parasites have introduced to football in this country is the diving etc,etc ,etc most can’t speak English ,thick as pigshit and now we have to watch them in the World Cup, same old antics .apart from England and a few chosen games I will not be watching it .far to much for me .i hate the Premiership .phil put it better than me but same message

I agree but come on guys, if any of us were talented enough and we got an offer for even just 10k a week then we’d be off of here and riding along with all the others.

Only weird thing for me about this break is as some have said that the worst weather in the past few years has been later on that the planned break.

Pretty sure the players actually all voted towards this too, at least it will show case the lower leagues a little bit more with no prem on.

Quote:

rossb07
I agree but come on guys, if any of us were talented enough and we got an offer for even just 10k a week then we’d be off of here and riding along with all the others.
Only weird thing for me about this break is as some have said that the worst weather in the past few years has been later on that the planned break.

Money is not the overriding factor for everyone. Some have a social conscience and choose to avoid contributing to the melanoma of a capitalist society, prefering "job satisfaction" and worthy, unheralded "missions", contributing away from the ills of the oft-corrupt, criminal, commercial, corporate, cartels (the last being particularly apt for the Premier League of extraordinary gentlemen).
Jeez, I'm on one!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/06/2018 07:01 by Phil65.

Right on Phil

Most people with the talent to play top level football and possibly represent England would play in the premier league for £20,000 upwards, it's almost a given.

Every footballer wants to represent England, but save for a few who get picked at lower level football like Steve Bull, Wilfred Zaha and Peter Taylor, you have to be in the top flight to do it.

If any one of us was a player at lower league football being offered a move from a lower league club for a minimum of £10,000 a week, with the possibility of double or more for looking good, 99% would take it, because someone like Dwight Gayle didn't get an offer to leave Dagenham for Peterbrough and think I probably shouldn't it or I might start to look greedy.

People like Paul McCartney make big money, but who criticises him and I don't think he's done a days work in his life, but he is a great talent who has entertained millions over the years, but then so have people like Peter Crouch, Petr Cech and Thierry Henry.

Don't hate the players hate the game. If that league allows clubs to pay people £250,000 a week it's partly down to the likes of Sky and BT sport funding it big time, so then anyone beefing about the big wages who have either or both subscriptions, could cancel them and not use their internet services, or the Sky Bet option as well as not buy any media publications linked to Sky, or use BT telephone services, or services from associated companies.

If you wanted the premier league to be less greedy, starve it of money by not monetising it's media revenue sources, otherwise your protestations would look like double standards.

---

Then I ate his Liver.......... with some baked beans and a can of coke.

They are paid what the market dictates they are worth. No more no less.

We live in a world where people will pay lots of money to watch them play and will buy goods that we've seen them endorse.

Exactly, and we are the market. Anyone who thinks pro-footballers don't deserve it need to, in order of severity based on how bothered you are :-

A) Cancel your subscriptions
Channel that money into more "worthy" causes (entirely subjective of course) so that those working in that field get a better wage
C) Support political parties who don't believe in market forces being a force for good.

If anyone here has a good public voice, I'd be curious to find out more about the Communists Against Mollycoddled @#$%& (The CAMP Party).

Can't leave this one festering; my last say I promise. So applying the same logic and principles, as "we" are to blame, we shouldn't drink water, bathe, keep ourselves warm, so we're not feeding the bellies of the fat cats in the privatised companies. Luxuries such as sport on TV are not for those whose ethics question the morality of life as it is they who are to blame for the misappropriation and disproportionate use of those funds. The proletariate should live a simple life, not tainted by the luxuries of the capitalists who's well-earned right it is to enjoy the fruits of their "labour", living with consciousnesses as clear as the natural spring water, that we of tainted thoughts should be drinking at source to avoid our hypocritical contribution to the wealth of the deserving.
Flexibly applying the same principle, we could blame those who donated to Oxfam for the scandal, if we hadn't have donated it wouldn't have happened. Let's blame council tax payers for corrupt coppers and fraudulent council officials; for without our cash they can not breed. Anyone who's a fan of JC (not the son of God), but that well known comedian who "legally" avoided tax, should not complain as they are to blame as they fuelled the fire.
A society akin to "Lord of the Flies" is not for me. I'm not a fan of the mercenary, disloyal existence that purveyors of the Premier League promote.
There's such a thing as friendly capitalism, where wealth can be shared and a philanthropist attitude prevails; a fine and healthy profit is still achievable and the luxuries of life can still be enjoyed.
It can pay to be a humanitarian.
That's me done.
Off for an early winter break!

I'm not sure that analysis holds up under scrutiny.

Profit and inequality are necessary for innovation.

Our standard of living is glorious, our societies peaceful and we live longer better lives.

This is all down to capitalism. Most people want to watch premiership football in HD as the product is good. The production values and technology behind HD sports broadcasts only exists due to free trade capitalism.

Rooney started as a prole and is now one of the richest humans to have ever lived.

How does a scrotty street rat from the backend of Liverpool become this rich? By being able to exchange his labour in an open market place. We should celebrate the system that allows such a rise through the economic strata. Not using anachronistic, flawed class warrior sloganeering that ironically ends up advocating keeping poor kids in their box.

Go get your shine box, Wayne...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/06/2018 17:43 by mrGr33n13.

"Our standard of living is glorious, our societies peaceful and we live longer and better lives"................lol and lol! Brilliant! Please sir, I want some more.

Ok here's some questions: at what point in history has our standard of living been higher? At what point in history has of life expectancy been longer? At what point in history has there been fewer countries at war? At what point in history has infant mortality been lower?

Also someone in the top 10% of income even 50 years ago wouldn't swap lives with someone on 18k a year today.

Liberal democracy and free trade is a miracle that should be celebrated.

Phil

Indeed. Your application to Oxfam contributions is very, as you say, flexible.

Never heard of friendly capitalism before. Thought it was survival of the most valuable.

I would suggest watching football on tv is more of a lifestyle choice that you have control over, as opposed to paying your basic utilities and necessities. And yes we should all shun corporations like nestle where practical - though it not always is, and people who exploit basic needs should be punished horribly.

But back to football. We don't buy the sun apparently (though I'm sure we still but from the same media group). Choice my friend. My apologies if my prose isn't quite so eloquent.

Speak for yourself regarding standard of leaving. Enjoy your bubble and I'll enjoy mine. Ignore homelessness, food banks, genuine poverty on our doorsteps, unprecedented mental health issues across the spectrum, ignore science, ignore social enterprises and a plethora of charitable and volunteer services, ignore the plight of those in and reliant on social care and the health services, ignore terrorism, ignore child labour, ignore zero hours contracts, in fact, ignore the abject deprivation, death and despots that exist outside of this green and pleasant land, for the greenback is God.
Thanks for the ride.

Where those issue more or less prevelent in the past?

Was the treatment of mental health issue more nuanced, sensitive and researched now or 50 years ago,?

Would you rather be in the bottom 10% now or 90 years ago.

If you can turn on a tap and get drinking water you are better off than 99.9% of humans who have ever lived. You can bathe in the stuff ffs. You are a very wealthy person and I refuse to believe you can say with any seriousness that you would rather have been born at any other time.

The poor of the past lived with infant mortality as he norm, sanitation a pipe dream, illness incurable.

The rich of the past had to spend a serious chunk of their netwl worth on kerosene and candles: only the very wealthiest of families could have light and read after sunset. Now a light bulb is virtually free to run

People on minimum wage jobs have televisions, free healthcare, running water, appliances, can get a flight to Amsterdam for 40 quid, own smart phones have a plethora of lesuire choices, can talk smack on trfc message boards.

Someone living at the very top of society in the not too distant past would snap swap lives with someone on a bog standard wage now.

Things aren't perfect but you cannot say we've ever had it as good as under liberal free trade and democracy.

Again if you disagree tell me when we've had it better?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/06/2018 19:38 by mrGr33n13.

Quote:

CaptainFriendly
Phil
Indeed. Your application to Oxfam contributions is very, as you say, flexible.

Never heard of friendly capitalism before. Thought it was survival of the most valuable.

I would suggest watching football on tv is more of a lifestyle choice that you have control over, as opposed to paying your basic utilities and necessities. And yes we should all shun corporations like nestle where practical - though it not always is, and people who exploit basic needs should be punished horribly.

But back to football. We don't buy the sun apparently (though I'm sure we still but from the same media group). Choice my friend. My apologies if my prose isn't quite so eloquent.

No problem. No apologies required. I'll give up the good fight; too weary now. Choice is imperative; there is more than one way.

Quote:

mrGr33n13
Where those issue more or less prevelent in the past?
Was the treatment of mental health issue more nuanced, sensitive and researched now or 50 years ago,?

Would you rather be in the bottom 10% now or 90 years ago.

If you can turn on a tap and get drinking water you are better off than 99.9% of humans who have ever lived. You can bathe in the stuff ffs. You are a very wealthy person and I refuse to believe you can say with any seriousness that you would rather have been born at any other time.


The poor of the past lived with infant mortality as he norm, sanitation a pipe dream, illness incurable.

The rich of the past had to spend a serious chunk of their netwl worth on kerosene and candles: only the very wealthiest of families could have light and read after sunset. Now a light bulb is virtually free to run

People on minimum wage jobs have televisions, free healthcare, running water, appliances, can get a flight to Amsterdam for 40 quid, own smart phones have a plethora of lesuire choices, can talk smack on trfc message boards.

Someone living at the very top of society in the not too distant past would snap swap lives with someone on a bog standard wage now.

Things aren't perfect but you cannot say we've ever had it as good as under liberal free trade and democracy.

Again if you disagree tell me when we've had it better?

Don’t think there wasn’t too many on here that were around in 1928 bud, so it’s difficult to make an accurate comparison. One thing is true though, we can all buy TV’s etc now, only as technology has moved on and expierence in cheaper manufacturing and global trade has also come on, leading to cheaper products, and intially yes abuse of citizens working in these markets, however over time as the country gets richer the people get richer and hence have a better life and the country gets better, This is evolution, things will always get better over time as we are all essentially learning as a human race to improve, and live better lives. So you could say we have never had it so good, as this is how life works. Some things can get worse though in a devolped country such as property ownership for the young and opportunities to work in certain fields get less as a country evolves, as certain fields of business get too expensive in a global market to compete look at the UK for example. One could say a better standard of living is now obtainable in another EU country than the UK as our manufacturing is not what it was, the NHS is in a bad way, waiting times for operations etc has increased tenfold, and Crimes are on the up. It’s an interesting time we live in right now that’s for sure.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/06/2018 20:57 by TranmereFan.

Quote:

One thing is true though, we can all buy TV’s etc now, only as technology hasn’t moved on and expierence in cheaper manufacturing and global trade has also come on, leading to cheaper products, and intially yes abuse of citizens working in these markets, however over time as the country gets richer the people get richer and hence have a better life and the country gets better, This is evolution, things will always get better over time

the question -rather bizzarely given the OP - being debated is why is this the case? I would strongly argue that the only reason countries are getting richer and technology is being pushed forward at such a beautiful pace is because of free trade and capitalism. this growth wasnt seen before liberal democracy and capitalism

the growth in technology, the ready availability of food is all due to free markets.

it's a beautiful system. let's take a banal example: chocolate doughnuts. who decides how many choc doughnuts are allocated each day in a city and what price we should pay? who allocates the raw materials to the doughnut producers and tells them how many varieties to make and where to send them? no-one.

yet somehow through the free choices of thousands of people, the raw materials are assembled, the different doughnuts baked and spread around. so that you absolutely know tomorrow if you fancy a doughnut there is not going to be a region wide shortage. governments cannot do this on their own. communist countries cannot do this. only free societies and economies can support the advances we have made.

this is emergent order. the iphone, airbnb, cheap electricity, the variety and availability of food : this is all emergent from millions of people making free economic choices. no one directs it. no one has planned it. can you imagine a government making an iphone?

its raised the standard of living across the world in an unprecedented way, pushed technology on the frontiers unimaginable 100 years ago, and continues to do so.

its not a zero sum gain either. we all gain.

its beautiful and should be celebrated and cherished.

Quote:

TranmereFan
things will always get better over time as we are all essentially learning as a human race to improve, and live better lives.

However we battle against the fight to reduce homelessness, whilst simultaneously trying to provide homes for a population that expands at pace and contributes to the homelessness, as a side effect.

We supposedly learn, but we make the same old mistakes sometimes and don't implement lessons that could be learned.

Technology exploited in the past. Bows and arrows used to kill our fellow man, not to hunt animals. Boats used to conquer new worlds, not to find fish to eat or to find new worlds and develop trade and diplomacy.

Technology abused therefore, yet still the internet is a cesspit for the sexual deviants criminally minded and terrorists to have fun. Poor policing of a wonderful resource exploited for some peoples financial gain and / or emotional pleasure, but history showed technology will be exploited for gain when those with the will work out how, sometimes making the makers of such technology look like fools, who held the key to developing preventative measures but didn't use it to unlock the doors to control.

History is a teacher, but on some occasions we as a species don't learn, so our progression and advancement of modernity will be beset with problems of our own making, that like cold viruses will plague us until we find a robust treatment protocol, if we can.

We have never had it so good in some respects, but we also have never had it so bad in some respects, because the modernity we as a species have strived to cultivate for the last 1,000+ years is beset with new and more advanced social and global ills / cancers we arguably could have done more to prevent and tackle.

Americans died in a tragic event at the hands of terrorists in 9/11, because the chief protagonist who was wanted before then and was filmed a few years earlier on cameras, was never captured or erased from history at the time and now associated argent provocateurs poison the modern way of life, with sometimes deadly acts against their own kind as a product of evolution of the previous mindset, mentality, militancy and technological warfare used to commit the aforementioned atrocity.

People now would not necessarily swap their lives with their cars, houses and salaries for a typical life lived 1,000 years ago, but they would crave the severity of evil that came with it, because being attacked by a man on horseback with a sword, is far less dangerous to groups of milling people out and about in their urban modernity, than people with guns, speeding cars or exploding vests.

We've never had it so good, yes quite possibly, but in some ways we've also never had it so bad. So what prices do the freedoms and liberties not enjoyed under less democratic regimes come at?

---

Then I ate his Liver.......... with some baked beans and a can of coke.

The world is considerably less violent now than in the past. Across even a 100 year period it's not close.

You mention 1000 years ago as though it was a relative utopia. Life expectancy would be around 25-30 years and infant mortality would be rife. The fear of a van driven by a Islamic facist murderer is nothing compared to the horror of losing your children to banal deaths such as dysentery

Wars were rife and far more brutal. Genocide and torture would be endorsed by states. The world was much more violent and base

Also the terrorists do not support liberal democracy and capitalism, they want to destroy it. And they come from ideologies born in states that aren't free and don't hold the primacy of the individual as being sacred. And who don't enjoy capitalism. Enemies of liberalism are the people who you should fear and in the case of theocratic terrorism should be willing to die fighting.
.

The likelihood of large scale war between two liberal democracies is unthinkable now. I doubt it will happen in our children's children's lifetimes. We have too much skin in the game. Individuals have lifestyles and political, economic and sexual freedoms unavailable to 99.999.....% of all people who have ever lived. People aren't going to war for state vanity in our society.

Emergent order is one of the most poetic things in the sciences. The emergent order of markets has been a boon for us

Meanwhile back on the winter break thread . . . . . .

Quote:

Loyden1
Meanwhile back on the winter break thread . . . . . .

😂 some chat going on here atm

Quote:

mrGr33n13
Where those issue more or less prevelent in the past?
Was the treatment of mental health issue more nuanced, sensitive and researched now or 50 years ago,?

Would you rather be in the bottom 10% now or 90 years ago.

If you can turn on a tap and get drinking water you are better off than 99.9% of humans who have ever lived. You can bathe in the stuff ffs. You are a very wealthy person and I refuse to believe you can say with any seriousness that you would rather have been born at any other time.

The poor of the past lived with infant mortality as he norm, sanitation a pipe dream, illness incurable.

The rich of the past had to spend a serious chunk of their netwl worth on kerosene and candles: only the very wealthiest of families could have light and read after sunset. Now a light bulb is virtually free to run

People on minimum wage jobs have televisions, free healthcare, running water, appliances, can get a flight to Amsterdam for 40 quid, own smart phones have a plethora of lesuire choices, can talk smack on trfc message boards.

Someone living at the very top of society in the not too distant past would snap swap lives with someone on a bog standard wage now.

Things aren't perfect but you cannot say we've ever had it as good as under liberal free trade and democracy.

Again if you disagree tell me when we've had it better?

Your willingness to turn a blind-eye to the ills of the world today and continue your rhetoric and diatribe, saddens me. Alas, you already have a proven track record on here of trying to sweep things under the carpet or dress them up. You won't change my views and I won't change yours.
Looking forward to your first to football related contribution, unless I've blinked and missed it.

Your willingness to ignore simple questions that would expose your viewpioint as wafer thin dave spartism saddens me, so the universe is in equilibrium, karmic eh?

Quote:

mrGr33n13
Your willingness to ignore simple questions that would expose your viewpioint as wafer thin dave spartism saddens me, so the universe is in equilibrium, karmic eh?

Lol, nice try. Enjoyed the debate, now the football.....
I guess that Whisky's out of the question now then!

i'm always down for sharing a bottle of johnnies red with anyone, sir.