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hong kong rover (IP Logged)

Sutton United and their pitch
13 February, 2018 07:17
I know this topic has been brought up a few times over the past few months but does anyone think the season COULD end in quite a bit of controversy regarding sutton and their pitch?They will be fighting n campaigning all the way but at the end of the day the league rules are what they are and sutton are fully aware of this.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 13/02/2018 07:23 by hong kong rover.

 
MESSAGES->author
hong kong rover (IP Logged)

Re: Sutton United and their pitch
13 February, 2018 08:27
I beleive that EFL clubs are set to vote this June on whether to allow a return to artificial pitches but it wont be until 2019, at the earliest, if they are to be reintroduced and it might take a series of votes for this to happen.

 
MESSAGES->author
2 the moon (IP Logged)

Re: Sutton United and their pitch
13 February, 2018 08:34
I presume they would rip it up rather than forfeit promotion, if not it would make the whole thing a farce.

 
Claytonne&Clark
Claytonne&Clark (IP Logged)

Re: Sutton United and their pitch
13 February, 2018 10:23
I suspect they would lose if they were in the play-offs. They said last season they don't want promotion as it would mess up their business model - not only does the pitch give them income but being non-league entitles them to small grants which they couldn't access as a league club.

If they did go up, I would imagine ground-sharing for the first team would be an option. AFC Wimbledon are only 5 miles away. Sutton could use their home ground for FA Cup games (and offer Wimbledon's other sides use of their pitch for free to finance it). Ripping the pitch up would be a total waste if they were relegated after one season, so it would make sense to keep the pitch as an income generator whilst they are progressing (especially if they go do a local deal for a cheap match-day only venue).

 
Fiftyyearsarover
Fiftyyearsarover (IP Logged)

Re: Sutton United and their pitch
13 February, 2018 12:36
I read in the non League paper yesterday that if they win promotion ,they are going to cover the plastic pitch and will lay a bona Fida pitch on the top and if they come baack down again they can then revert back to plastic the none League paper is a mine of information comes out Sunday / Monday .

 
MESSAGES->author
hong kong rover (IP Logged)

Re: Sutton United and their pitch
13 February, 2018 13:00
Quote:
Fiftyyearsarover
I read in the non League paper yesterday that if they win promotion ,they are going to cover the plastic pitch and will lay a bona Fida pitch on the top and if they come baack down again they can then revert back to plastic the none League paper is a mine of information comes out Sunday / Monday .

That's interesting to hear Fifty, I do remember reading an article not that long ago with the Sutton manager Paul Doswell and the clubs chairman/director and in that article they did mention that they might have 'a trick up their sleeve' regarding their pitch. will be interesting to see what happens.. I think one of the comments that one of those 2 made about their pitch was.. In the words of Mr Baldrick,' We have a plan..' lol... If it turns out to be true then it could turn out to be a fiendishly clever idea..



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 13/02/2018 13:32 by hong kong rover.

 
Fiftyyearsarover
Fiftyyearsarover (IP Logged)

Re: Sutton United and their pitch
13 February, 2018 13:12
Hi HKR .are you going to buy those new Tranmere trainers ? You will be a sensation in the HK bars 😎

 
dicko111
dicko111 (IP Logged)

Re: Sutton United and their pitch
13 February, 2018 13:25
Cant see grass being laid over a plastic pitch .Surely it would be dead within weeks .Probably end up looking like the Rochdale pitch the other night in the FA cup

 
Fiftyyearsarover
Fiftyyearsarover (IP Logged)

Re: Sutton United and their pitch
13 February, 2018 14:28
Well according to Sutton it will work I wonder about it myself but most things can be done these days ,spiffing idea if it works

 
martyd12
martyd12 (IP Logged)

Re: Sutton United and their pitch
13 February, 2018 15:12
The article in the NL paper is interesting in that their manager says "We know the rules. Rules however are there to be challenged. We accept we signed something in the summer but we had to. We signed under duress."

They are therefore asking for an earlier decision from the EFL on their plastic pitch and to that end have enlisted the services of a top sports' barrister presumably to argue that the agreement they signed was signed under duress and therefore should be rescinded. I do not know exactly what was in the agreement but I cannot see that they have any hope of success on that point!

It appears that if they did get promoted they would not be allowed to ground share for their first season in the League and instead could be relegated to the National League South!!

Clearly the matter must be resolved before the end of the season. if they reached the playoffs some team may have an easy passage past them!

 
Jack of all Trades
Jack of all Trades (IP Logged)

Re: Sutton United and their pitch
13 February, 2018 18:48
Simply more money for barristers.

No one forced them to install a plastic pitch the rules have been in place for a number of years in respect of plastic pitches and their banning from the EFL.

Whilst, we have done well on the plastic pitches, it could be argued that they (Sutton) Bromley and Maidstone have an unfair advantage over the other 21 clubs.

Duress my a*** they didn't protest at the time, as far as I can remember and are only bringing this up because they stand a chance of promotion to the EFL.

If they were mid table or worst they wouldn't be spending money on a barrister.

 
MESSAGES->author
acc928 (IP Logged)

Re: Sutton United and their pitch
13 February, 2018 19:00
What Paul Doswell said a year ago...

“I’ve got no ambition to be a manager in the league,” he says. “I don’t see it as a holy grail. If we did get to the play-offs I think there’d be panic here. It’s a volunteer led club. I work, the chairman works, none of us could cope with the amount of stuff that goes with the football league. We’d much rather be the best non-league club we can be.”

[www.telegraph.co.uk]

 
coltran
coltran (IP Logged)

Re: Sutton United and their pitch
13 February, 2018 19:05
I agree largely with what you say Jack of all Trades. I think it is grossly unfair though that if they were to win the league, they would be relegated to National South. That infers that plastic pitches aren't allowed in the National League. So, as three clubs have been promoted into this league with plastic pitches, then why were they allowed in to the National league in the first place? If the EFL don't allow plastic pitches, then surely it is only fair that Sutton should remain in the National League and not be relegated. It would be like a double relegation for them.

 
Jack of all Trades
Jack of all Trades (IP Logged)

Re: Sutton United and their pitch
13 February, 2018 19:12
Exactly why the rule was put in place. It is harsh but, I repeat, everyone knew the rules before a ball was kicked.

 
Hoots Mon
Hoots Mon (IP Logged)

Re: Sutton United and their pitch
13 February, 2018 19:15
I believe Barrow's match against them tonight is their first league match since they drew with us over a month ago.

 
MESSAGES->author
Phil65 (IP Logged)

Re: Sutton United and their pitch
13 February, 2018 19:34
And if someone gets a reprieve in League Two because Sutton can't get promoted (if that's how it's going to pan out), then I find that disrespectful, on Sutton's behalf, towards other teams who genuinely want promotion and are willing to respect the rules. They should come clean on their intentions, stop playing the victim and "person" up (got to be careful in the current climate!). I can see the justification in the punishment of relegation to the National League South, for depriving others of their opportunity for promotion; makes a mockery of them being successful in the National League if they've no intention of converting to grass or want to challenge the rules, particularly if they've already agreed to do it. Of course, they may be compliant if it comes to it which will make it a mute debate. Anyway, hope Barrow and others stuff them to make it a redundant debate!!

 
martyd12
martyd12 (IP Logged)

Re: Sutton United and their pitch
13 February, 2018 20:00
Barrow lead after 10 minutes!!

 
Wirral Mike
Wirral Mike (IP Logged)

Re: Sutton United and their pitch
13 February, 2018 20:02
re Sutton United pitch. I also buy the NLP which is a very good paper btw but I hope I am not buying it next season for obvious reasons. I had missed the part about Sutton being relegated to NLS if they win the league this year, how exactly does that work?

A more logical move surely would be for them to graciously 'step aside' from top spot and then whoever was second is now first and goes up automatically, whoever was third is now second, fourth is now third and so on all the way down to eighth who then get the last play off spot as seventh. Put Sutton as 8th, as I guess you need to have a final league table.

If their business model works for them with a plastic pitch in the NL then fine but stay in the NL and let teams 2-8 become the new 1-7. Also let them keep the NL Trophy for coming first in their boardroom cabinet.

In fact wherever Sutton finish, be it second, third, fourth or whatever, if it's in the top 7 then push them down to 8th and let the others who finished below them but 8th or higher all move up one place.

I am sure the relegation of Sutton from the NL option will appeal to Guiseley, Chester and co and also the other option of only one team coming down from EFL2 will be great news for that traditional famous old team team FGR from the footballing hotbed of Gloucester but neither of those options hardly seems fair or proportionate.

Come on Barrow!yes get in Barrow 1-0 up

 
Higgosboots
Higgosboots (IP Logged)

Re: Sutton United and their pitch
13 February, 2018 20:26
Haven’t they side they will have a grass pitch, thought their intentions had to be known by January. If they haven’t they will simply role over will they not as opposed win the league, if they are in that position and don’t wish to be.

 
MESSAGES->author
Phil65 (IP Logged)

Re: Sutton United and their pitch
13 February, 2018 20:49
Apparently ten Sutton fans at Barrow; another reason why they shouldn't go up if you ask me!

 
Wirral Mike
Wirral Mike (IP Logged)

Re: Sutton United and their pitch
13 February, 2018 20:59
Well Higgosboots I don't have the benefit of the NL paper now - passed it on to my Dad - but if they were going to just 'roll over' and put grass down what's all this talk of top sports barristers and challenges and claiming they only agreed under duress? sounds like some more talking still to be done as they look good for a play off place at least at the moment

and if they get promoted and arrive with their plastic pitch will the EFL tell them to 'sod off'? (lol)

Barrow still 1-0 up on the site I'm following only another 33 minutes to go!

I remember years and years ago when we were going to be beneficiaries of Swindon being relegated for financial impropriety two leagues down from the lst Div but that was reduced on appeal to just one relegation and we stayed where we were, anyone else remember that?

 
martyd12
martyd12 (IP Logged)

Re: Sutton United and their pitch
13 February, 2018 21:29
They have equalised!

 
Fiftyyearsarover
Fiftyyearsarover (IP Logged)

Re: Sutton United and their pitch
13 February, 2018 21:36
Yes I remember that to ,was that the season their lights went out and game abandoned when we were winning .they had the Lethal goal scorer Rogers who scored at PP in the second leg playoff

 
Loyden1
Loyden1 (IP Logged)

Re: Sutton United and their pitch
13 February, 2018 22:27
Hey 50 don't you mean don rogers ?he played in the70s

 
Cybertron
Cybertron (IP Logged)

Re: Sutton United and their pitch
13 February, 2018 22:42
The plastic pitch debate applied equally to Bromley who are also well placed at the moment.

 
Wirral Mike
Wirral Mike (IP Logged)

Re: Sutton United and their pitch
13 February, 2018 22:51
I am not sure fifty if that was the same season as we would not have played Swindon in the league (they were in Div one and were Div three) unless it was a cup game? if my memory is right it was when we lost to Notts Co. in the PO final at Wembley and we qualified as the next ones to go up when they initially relegated Swindon two leagues but that was short lived as Swindon appealed and were 'only' relegated down one league to the old Div 2 now known as the Championship, but we got over it quite quickly as next season we were back at Wembley and beat Bolton to go to Division 2.

Whatever the rules are about Sutton and their pitch I would be amazed if they were punished by sending them down to NLS. Any financial model that works and does not result in yet another NL club being in financial trouble like Hartlepool and Chester or at least experiencing cash flow problems like Macc or having a fire sale like Eastleigh should not be viewed negatively.

so we're down to 5th but 6 points in the next two home games and it will be looking much better!

 
Wirral Mike
Wirral Mike (IP Logged)

Re: Sutton United and their pitch
13 February, 2018 22:59
Sorry it is D and R who just sold their best three not Eastleigh sorry about that Eastleigh

 
Borough Roaderd
Tranmere69 (IP Logged)

Re: Sutton United and their pitch
13 February, 2018 23:46
Our only means of guaranteed promotion is by finishing top. No point worrying about Sutton.The rules governing promotion should be those which were in place at the start of the season.

 
Fiftyyearsarover
Fiftyyearsarover (IP Logged)

Re: Sutton United and their pitch
14 February, 2018 10:49
Sorry guys ,regarding Swindon and Don Rogers. I bow to your superior knowledge

 
Loyden1
Loyden1 (IP Logged)

Re: Sutton United and their pitch
14 February, 2018 12:58
Quote:
Fiftyyearsarover
Sorry guys ,regarding Swindon and Don Rogers. I bow to your superior knowledge
what I great team swindon where when they came to us in1969.hammered us 5.3 think Rodgers got at least. They were applauded off the pitch (wouldn't be now !).they went on and got promoted and beat arsenal. 3.1 at wembley in league cup.

 
Wirral Mike
Wirral Mike (IP Logged)

Re: Sutton United and their pitch
14 February, 2018 14:46
you are spot on T69 in that we should aim for 1st and then we don't need to worry about plastic pitches etc, it's just interesting to talk about these things - well for some of us anyway - I also recall didn't Chester (the current FC Chester not the old club) get a lucky reprieve a few years ago and avoid relegation because Hereford's ground wasn't up to scratch?

6 points from the next two games and SWA will be looking good!

 
mini_andy
mini_andy (IP Logged)

Re: Sutton United and their pitch
14 February, 2018 15:43
Quote:
Fiftyyearsarover
Sorry guys ,regarding Swindon and Don Rogers. I bow to your superior knowledge

On the subject of Don Rogers, he now owns a sports shop in the town centre (has done for years). We buy a lot of our stuff from there for the club I run lol

 
Claytonne&Clark
Claytonne&Clark (IP Logged)

Re: Sutton United and their pitch
14 February, 2018 17:00
Quote:
dicko111
Cant see grass being laid over a plastic pitch .Surely it would be dead within weeks .Probably end up looking like the Rochdale pitch the other night in the FA cup

I wonder what the rules would be around that. They have to have grass to be eligible to be in the league. If during the season the pitch became unplayable, would their fixtures be cancelled (and cause a big backlog), or might the EFL allow them to use an artificial pitch in those circumstances.

If they try, and fail, to use grass that might get the ruling change. I would expect the EFL to look harshly at that, but who knows what the decision might be.

 
rossb07
rossb07 (IP Logged)

Re: Sutton United and their pitch
18 February, 2018 16:32
[www.youtube.com]

Video on the subject, already left my comment on there but shall post my opinion below also;

Don't care about advantages as any club can train on a 3G pitch these days. That being said, they shouldn't be allowed due to all 3 clubs KNOWING the rules, SIGNING the contract with the league and only taking offence and declaring they were forced to sign it (yeah, right) after realising they stand a chance of getting into the playoffs. If all 3 of the VNL clubs use the 3G pitches for the community and because it works with their business model for the club then so be it but you're staying a non-league club until you change your ways! Also, pretty certain Sutton Chairman and Manager said they were happy to remain a non-league team and would 'roll over' if they got into the play-offs to make sure they kept themselves down in the VNL.

That's not me saying i disagree that they shouldn't change the rules in the future, but more that those clubs affected KNEW what they were signing up for this season. MAybe the rules should be changed but only next season otherwise why not change all the rules in football halfway through a season to benefit 1 or 2 teams.


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