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Mattc777
CaptainFriendly (IP Logged)

Corporate Football
02 February, 2018 09:55
Sorry for hijacking this as we just touched on it in another thread but I think it deserves it's own space.

In work I'm sure they all think I'm in denial or putting an act on when I display ignorance of the weekend results in the premier league.

It just doesn't excite me. It feels a bit like watching a computer game - that same level of reality. When they try and inject a bit of corporate-sponsored emotion into it (cue Klopp standing there with his hands in his pockets dreamily staring up at the Kop stand) it feels to me as superficial as the contrived emotion and reaction of the x- factor / the voice judges.

Naturally I'm sure I'll feel very different about it if we ever get there, but I would have experienced the journey. I kind of feel sorry for people inheriting a team at the height of its success at a young age. I don't really know where you go from there. Maybe you defect? I mean, I remember running around in my Liverpool Crown Paints shirt at the age of about 9. I didn't know there was a choice until I reached my teens and realised that I was quite proud of living in the Wirral and decided to support my local economy. In fact, I know of a couple of people now who have ditched the premier league in favour of Prescott Cables and Marine. Perhaps there is some despair out there and maybe a revolution is around the corner.

I'm certainly not having a dig at Liverpool our Everton supporters residing in the city as I appreciate the clubs are very much a part of the community. I just pains me to see people make that decision when there's a perfectly good club on their doorstep. The missus comes from Oldham and it's just horrible to see the exodus of fans leaving their home town on a Saturday afternoon to watch Man City (on telly in the pub for most).

Of course, I'm preaching (less articulately than I'd like) to the converted.

SWA

 
rossb07
rossb07 (IP Logged)

Re: Corporate Football
02 February, 2018 10:27
I agree,

I do keep in touch with the Prem somewhat but not as much as i should as my family has a lot of United supporters amongst them and that's who i followed from an early age (even though my mother would try to tempt me towards Everton by buying me their strip every year and an odd season i think in '96-'97 were my older brother demanded i supported Wimbledon and they all got me the old Lotto with the Elonex logo strip, which tbf was a very nice top!).

That aside, even when you go the games at that level, you don't feel like you're apart of something bigger or even apart of a family.

I've always gone to Rovers games throughout the years but it's only the last 8-10 years i'd say that i'm more of a Rovers fan than anything else and never looked back in any regard.

Apart from when L'pool lose of course and i get to wind them all up!

 
HardlyYardley
HardlyYardley (IP Logged)

Re: Corporate Football
02 February, 2018 11:34
Good post. The Premier League feels like a simulation and, in many ways, it is. Murdoch and others constructed it as a media mirage, as way of selling Sky and establishing a massively profitable global brand. It's more show business than sport and, although the players are obviously good players, they are marketed primarily as personalities. Rock bands sell more from marketing merchandise than from the music itself. Similarly, Premier League fooball makes more from other revenue streams than from the matches which are still necessary, of course. The disparity in wealth beween leagues reflects the increasingly unequal way society has gone. Value and price no longer have any link. To whom would you compare a PL player's income : to an NL player's income? To the income of the ground staff? To the income of the nurses who treat them when ill or injured? To the average income of those who live near to the ground? In the town? In the country? Like most speculatve activities, the PL is a bubble and it will eventually burst. Like all bubbles (e.g. housing) it's sometimes hard to remember times before the bubble and very hard to imagine times after the bubble, but things will eventually change. I find MOTD almost unwatchable, For example, those music-backed pseudo-artistic, emotion-charged video packages which seem compulsory! There's actually very little uninterruped football on MOTD because it's not really about football. I spent my early years watching us yo-yo between Div. 3 and 4 but was lucky enough to see our great years when we so nearly got into the top division prior to all this PL nonsense. Realistically, I suppose curiosity would make me interested in one season in the PL but my hope these days (and I'm not holding my breath on this!) is to see us back as a good Championship side. I spent some time in Worthing and enjoyed watching them (two leagues below us now). I too have never even heard of some of the players in recent England sqads.

 
HardlyYardley
HardlyYardley (IP Logged)

Re: Corporate Football
02 February, 2018 12:55
Something I meant to add which I've thought for a long time : people who atend PL matches should be paid instead of paying. They are film extras on a film set. Every match is filmed and broadcast. The crowd are a neccessary part of the entertainment which is not really meant for them but directed towards millions of viewers around the world. Players and managers behave increasingly like actors because they are actors. Mind you, I wouldn't go if you paid me.

 
DevonExile
DevonExile (IP Logged)

Re: Corporate Football
02 February, 2018 13:36
It is an extension of the modern con where the media think that if you say something often enough it will be treated as fact.Like the claim best league in the world.It is certainly one of the greediest and poorly run relative to its wealth.The Germans show far more regard for both the supporters and the development of football in general.
The national may be a@#$%&league but it is infinitely more wholesome and accessible

 
rossb07
rossb07 (IP Logged)

Re: Corporate Football
02 February, 2018 13:54
I agree on that Devon, it certainly isn't the best league in the world as when was the last time 8 teams had the chance to win the league outright making it a spectacle?

It may also have the most money generated into it via sponsorship and TV money but all the teams could learn a thing or 2 from the Bundesliga teams in how to accurately run a football club properly for all concerned.

Don't get me started on the CSL...

 
martyd12
martyd12 (IP Logged)

Re: Corporate Football
02 February, 2018 14:13
I agree with all that has been said. What I hate is the obscene way Sky conduct Transfer Deadline Day with their Breaking News and chasing around all the Premier League grounds and who or often not is spending tens of millions of £££s.
Do they never think the money could be utilised elsewhere!!

 
MESSAGES->author
hong kong rover (IP Logged)

Re: Corporate Football
02 February, 2018 15:53
Some excellent posts here from all.. The Premier League owners only care about ONE thing and that thing is their stand-alone product.. They do not give a damn about anything else.. The sooner it implodes and all comes crashing down then the better it will be for the whole of football in England. 26 years ago when the premier league started, it was just a fancy new name for division 1. look at how hideous it has become now!!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/02/2018 16:38 by hong kong rover.

 
Higgosboots
Higgosboots (IP Logged)

Re: Corporate Football
02 February, 2018 17:59
Modern sport it’s all the same, the yanks have been at the big buks for years. PJ knew these days would come, that’s why he bailed on the dream. Personally it doesn’t bother me, I like watching the footy and it has and is good for the likes of us so long as we can overcome and adapt. The better English players bar the cream at the top have fell down the league ladders, and that makes footy at our level entertaining not@#$%&as the Conference used to be. Their are players at Rovers now who back in the day would have been playing tier 2 football.

 
Vagabondo
Vagabondo (IP Logged)

Re: Corporate Football
02 February, 2018 18:11
Thanks Chaps !! most intelligent and analytical and well argued football thread I have seen in ages, really cheered me up. That’s because I agree wholeheartedly of course! Now let’s hope we all get to enjoy the real thing tomorrow!

 
the kav
the kav (IP Logged)

Re: Corporate Football
02 February, 2018 18:31
What you have to remember is football and my game rugby league both died in 1992.... it drives me mad when sky say only 5 teams have won the league or in rugby kevin sinfield holds the points record...NO BOTH THESE GREAT GAMES EXISTED BEFORE SKY... it is sky that have killed football in collusion with the clubs .

Secondly us working class supporters have been discarded by football to be replaced by a middle class demographic whos culture does not relate to the football club being part of the towns heritage and culture; this new breed of supporter , in collusion with the clubs, are dazzled my money and marketing machines which strip away any form of identity from the individual and convince them that the only thing worth supporting is the biggest and most successful organisations...hence cockney reds and welsh liverpool supporters .

Out of interest has anyone seen that clip of an asian supporter who has a footy top on in the crowd and his team gets beat, he quickly whips his top off tonreveal the top of the team that has just beaten his team underneath.....modern football summed upmin 20 seconds

Great thread captain

 
Yiggsy
Yiggsy (IP Logged)

Re: Corporate Football
02 February, 2018 18:50
Quote:
HardlyYardley
Something I meant to add which I've thought for a long time : people who attend PL matches should be paid instead of paying. They are film extras on a film set. Every match is filmed and broadcast. The crowd are a necessary part of the entertainment which is not really meant for them but directed towards millions of viewers around the world. Players and managers behave increasingly like actors because they are actors. Mind you, I wouldn't go if you paid me.

Completely agree. I have actually been saying this for years. There is no product without the atmosphere the fans generate yet they get fleeced for obscene ticket prices whilst their star player earns more in a day than they do in a year.

It is a Ponzi scheme and one day it will crash.

 
Borough Roaderd
Tranmere69 (IP Logged)

Re: Corporate Football
02 February, 2018 19:14
One of the best threads in a long time.Well done guys. I can't add anything because it's all been said.

 
mini_andy
mini_andy (IP Logged)

Re: Corporate Football
02 February, 2018 23:01
Kids today we being brain washed. I run a kids football team, and none of the players support Swindon! The county ground is just over a mile from our training pitch! If you exclude the weird kid who supports Tranmere for some reason, then all the other kids either support man united/city or Liverpool. A couple pay interest in Swindon, but that’s as far as it goes.

Then they tell you the ‘other’ team they support......... Barcelona. All of them. They only know one player. Don’t get me wrong, messi is a great player, but everything is subtlety fed to them. Boots, magazine posters, tv adverts, Fifa, it’s all bloody messi!

 
MESSAGES->author
Phil65 (IP Logged)

Re: Corporate Football
03 February, 2018 00:31
Quote:
mini_andy
Kids today we being brain washed. I run a kids football team, and none of the players support Swindon! The county ground is just over a mile from our training pitch! If you exclude the weird kid who supports Tranmere for some reason, then all the other kids either support man united/city or Liverpool. A couple pay interest in Swindon, but that’s as far as it goes.
Then they tell you the ‘other’ team they support......... Barcelona. All of them. They only know one player. Don’t get me wrong, messi is a great player, but everything is subtlety fed to them. Boots, magazine posters, tv adverts, Fifa, it’s all bloody messi!

Look on the bright side, if we get promoted we'll be able to buy Messi (Xbox/PlayStation only!).
It's the incurable cancer of global capitalism that erodes the ethics of even the virtuous. Mercenaries are just enlightened pawns in this ultimate game of survival. We're all part of the game, it's just a matter of scale. Some people are patrons of Harrods, whilst our transactions currently take place in Netto. Let's hope our own avarice is appeased and our transactions take place in Aldi next season.
Ultimately, it's just a game of football; the circus is just an appendage or a continuosly growing boil, that one day, may well burst.

 
rossb07
rossb07 (IP Logged)

Re: Corporate Football
03 February, 2018 07:16
Quote:
Phil65

Look on the bright side, if we get promoted we'll be able to buy Messi (Xbox/PlayStation only!).

Now, now, other platforms are available. I happen to dabble a little on Fifa on the PC but only because you can pick it up remarkably cheaper than on the consoles. Football Manager is still king though...

I actually have really enjoyed reading this thread, everyone in agreement (it's not hard really) and it's nice to get a feel for those who have supported Rovers and followed football for longer than i've been alive (I'm 28) to get a sense for what the game we all love has turned into.

 
MESSAGES->author
Phil65 (IP Logged)

Re: Corporate Football
03 February, 2018 08:17
Quote:
rossb07
Quote:
Phil65

Look on the bright side, if we get promoted we'll be able to buy Messi (Xbox/PlayStation only!).

Now, now, other platforms are available. I happen to dabble a little on Fifa on the PC but only because you can pick it up remarkably cheaper than on the consoles. Football Manager is still king though...

I actually have really enjoyed reading this thread, everyone in agreement (it's not hard really) and it's nice to get a feel for those who have supported Rovers and followed football for longer than i've been alive (I'm 28) to get a sense for what the game we all love has turned into.

Indeed, but if I mention a PC for gaming to my kids you might as well be asking them to use an Atari, a Sony Walkman to listen to their music, a Betamax tape to watch movies. I'm already deemed as being archaic! It was amazing to see their incredulous look the first time I tried to discuss and show them my record collection; such apathy and disinterest! Now there's another area of entertainment that commercialisation has diluted!

 
MESSAGES->author
TranmereFan (IP Logged)

Re: Corporate Football
03 February, 2018 09:21
Asene Wenger has touched on this today, bemoaning the large points gap of the leaders of every league in Europe is down to disproportionate wealth of the top clubs. Its technology that has spoilt the game with money i.e. big screen TV’s, internet streaming football, HD and 3D etc.. it’s brought clubs in Europe and further beyond more accessible to all, remember how exotic it used to seem when a club from UK played a big Spanish club? Even Tranmere in the Anglo Italian, it felt like we were playing teams from another Planet. Recent improvements in Media Technology has indeed caused all of this, is it the huge amount of people that are want to watch it or the Media and so sponsoring companies that are at fault? ... what would football be like if we banned advertising I wonder?

 
MESSAGES->author
Gilbert's Fridge (IP Logged)

Re: Corporate Football
03 February, 2018 13:54
I thought I was the only person with views similar to others on this thread.

I watched some of the European Championships in 2016 and didn't know any of the England players.

As regard the PL, living in Liverpool, I talk to Liverpool and Everton supporters quite often and genuinely ask them what they've got to look forward to. They'll never win the league, so what's the point (in my opinion). There's obviously no promotion. Most of them say they want to qualify for Europe ... oh and get knocked out (I reply!!).

I haven't watched MOTD for years, doesn't interest me. I occasionally watch the programme on Channel 5 but even then I only usually watch Leagues 1 & 2 ... well I've got to gauge what our opponents will be like in the next few seasons!!

 
Higgosboots
Higgosboots (IP Logged)

Re: Corporate Football
04 February, 2018 18:17
But you don’t see goals like Wanamas hit in the NL

 
mb53trfc
mb53trfc (IP Logged)

Re: Corporate Football
04 February, 2018 20:16
For many years now I have thought the so called 'Premier League' is a cancer that needs to be cut out from the English game. It is a totally self serving operation that has no relevance to the greater good of the game or too the national side.

Isn't it ironic that virtually all of the pundits on Match of the Day are English whilst the football it shows is played by mostly non English players, with non English managers and non English owners. Its impossible for the England national team to prosper under this system.

 
MESSAGES->author
TranmereFan (IP Logged)

Re: Corporate Football
04 February, 2018 21:19
Quote:
mb53trfc
For many years now I have thought the so called 'Premier League' is a cancer that needs to be cut out from the English game. It is a totally self serving operation that has no relevance to the greater good of the game or too the national side.
Isn't it ironic that virtually all of the pundits on Match of the Day are English whilst the football it shows is played by mostly non English players, with non English managers and non English owners. Its impossible for the England national team to prosper under this system.

I do agree that media/advertising/large corporate companies sponsors have spoilt the game. However I disagree with the only English players part, as the most exciting players in the Premier are foreign and for me that’s what makes it. It’s the young foreign players that are being poached and choosen ahead of our own youth players that’s spoiling our England setup. And if some rule of only foreign players allowed over 23 or maybe 25 in a squad is introduced that may help?

 
Vagabondo
Vagabondo (IP Logged)

Re: Corporate Football
05 February, 2018 17:39
Quote:
Higgosboots
But you don’t see goals like Wanamas hit in the NL

Who ?? And as Hugely Green used to say “I mean that most sincerely folks”

I doubt I could name 11 players from all the teams in the entire Rupert Murdoch Memorial Greedyship (Sm116)

 
Yiggsy
Yiggsy (IP Logged)

Re: Corporate Football
05 February, 2018 21:36
Good article by the excellent Matthew Syed in the Times today, apologies for long post but he agrees!:

"I remember going to a bar in Tanzania in November 2009. It was near the sea, a glorious expanse of blue reaching out to a sun-drenched horizon, and as I took my seat on the terrace I noticed a commotion inside. I took my beer to investigate and noted three Maasai tribesmen congregating around a small television, hung from a beam, and slapping each other in anticipation.

Others were coming closer, too, and I realised that it was, in the UK, coming up to 3pm on a Saturday. Manchester City were playing Burnley and the enthusiasm that I might have expected at The Angel & Crown, near my home was, if anything, even more exaggerated in Dar es Salaam. They were debating tactics and managers but, once the whistle blew, became entranced by the passion among the swaying masses in the stands.

TV directors have long understood what we might call the anthropological fascination with fandom. This is what explains the lingering shots of ecstasy after a late goal, the tears after a concession, the tattoos and flags, and banners and chanting; the way in which a group of 22 men kicking a pig’s bladder around a glorified field creates a subsidiary theatre of emotion, with its own liturgy, vocabulary and complex subculture.

Indeed, one might argue that the entire financial basis of football is constructed upon the passion of hardcore fans. It is the fans who create the tumult, the debates on radio shows, the traffic for the sports pages of websites, and whose irrational devotion provides the game’s moral anchor. There are deep reasons of tribalism that explain this devotion but, when viewers tune in from Dar es Salaam, Asia, South America and beyond, as they do in their millions, they wish to experience, if only vicariously, this passion. You might call it passion by proxy.

So, it was noteworthy that José Mourinho complained about a lack of passion at Old Trafford on Saturday, commenting that the stadium was “quiet” for the game against Huddersfield Town. When asked to explain further, he compared the Theatre of Dreams unfavourably with Fratton Park. “It’s not Portsmouth,” he said. “I remember Portsmouth — such a small stadium, the atmosphere was absolutely incredible. In here, the atmosphere is a bit quiet and there is not very [much enthusiasm].” Some may have sympathy with this view, as the United ground can sometimes be less than rocking, but isn’t that true of most grounds? Go to Fratton Park for a game against a lower-ranked club and you will not find the atmosphere registering high on the Richter scale of delirium. Think, too, of the sheer quantity of matches that clubs play today, with the league, the FA Cup, the League Cup and, for United, big European games. This is by no means a criticism of Huddersfield, but should Mourinho really expect United fans to cheer incontinently for a routine win?


It is also worth remembering that many of the most devoted fans have been priced out of the game by spiralling prices overseen by the Glazer family. The Americans wished to maximise gate receipts, principally to increase their equity value but also to provide funds to managers such as Mourinho, who has spent about £300 million since arriving at United.

I imagine that Mourinho would be the first to complain if match-day receipts, which provide more than 20 per cent of overall revenues, were to be cut in the hope of altering the demographic make-up of the stands. He would certainly complain if the lucrative corporate seats — so memorably critiqued by Roy Keane — were abandoned.

On the wider point, however, I cannot help thinking that Mourinho’s comments — he also criticised United supporters for being too quiet in August after a 2-0 win over Leicester City and in October after beating Tottenham Hotspur 1-0 — betray a broader sense in which fans are taken for granted. They are expected to shout themselves hoarse come what may, by implication expressing their support for the tactics of the man in the dugout, even though many are underwhelmed by a style of play out of kilter with the club’s attacking traditions. There has, of course, always been a certain moral ambiguity in the way that fans are expected to express criticism of the club that they love. True supporters experience euphoria in victory and anguish in defeat (like Nick Hornby, I have often felt that the latter is the more reliable barometer of a fan’s passion), but are they not also entitled to disagree with decisions taken by employees? Loyalty to a club is not synonymous with loyalty to their manager, for an institution is bigger than any one man.

Many United fans are squarely behind Mourinho, particularly after the disappointments of David Moyes and Louis van Gaal. They crave victories more than style, and are prepared to keep faith with a coach who has a winning track record in multiple countries. But, for a critical mass of United fans, football is about more than winning, more even than trophies. It is about glory and audacity, history and tradition. It is about a willingness to lose so long as you dare to win.

If Old Trafford is too quiet, then perhaps Mourinho might reflect less upon the hard-working fans who ultimately pay his wages, and who will fund his buyout clause, and more upon himself. Perhaps he might reflect upon the devotion they have shown for years, and will take to their deathbeds, while he is merely passing through. Perhaps he might reflect, too, upon the magical intensity of big nights under Sir Alex Ferguson when the stadium shook and where even neutrals became gripped by the derring-do.

Fans of the Premier League are among the most passionate in the world. They are a key part of the reason for the global fascination with our top flight. Old Trafford, for its part, can pack as much intensity per square inch as any stadium on the planet. If it really is too muted for Mourinho, perhaps he should have a word with the Glazers. Better still, he should look in the mirror."

 
CosterD
CosterD (IP Logged)

Re: Corporate Football
06 February, 2018 22:26
Is it just me or am I the only one actually having enjoyed watching football at Prenton Park for the last two and a half years. We are winning regularly - indeed our win record even outstrips that at the height of the Johnny King era, the atmosphere is better than it's been for years, and the gates are only 3,000 down on what we achieved when on the verge of the Premiership - and much of that difference was made up by massive away support provided by the bigger teams. Don't get me wrong - I want a return to league football as much as any man - but I'm still enjoying myself more than I have done for years. And as for the Premier League - no thank you! Not even if we somehow managed to reach those heady heights again.

 
Aldo'smuzzy
Aldo'smuzzy (IP Logged)

Re: Corporate Football
07 February, 2018 13:36
Quote:
CosterD
Is it just me or am I the only one actually having enjoyed watching football at Prenton Park for the last two and a half years. We are winning regularly - indeed our win record even outstrips that at the height of the Johnny King era, the atmosphere is better than it's been for years, and the gates are only 3,000 down on what we achieved when on the verge of the Premiership - and much of that difference was made up by massive away support provided by the bigger teams. Don't get me wrong - I want a return to league football as much as any man - but I'm still enjoying myself more than I have done for years. And as for the Premier League - no thank you! Not even if we somehow managed to reach those heady heights again.

I'd go along with much of that but, for me, the enjoyment and excitement is overshadowed by the knowledge that there's only one automatic promotion place up for grabs. Similarly, any excitement at qualifying for the playoffs is overshadowed by the probability of not winning them. For these reasons I find this league too nerve-wracking to be deep-down enjoyable, whereas if we were doing this well in Leagues 2 or 1, where there's a few more promotion slots and the downside of missing out isn't so bad, it'd be much more fun.

 
MESSAGES->author
TranmereFan (IP Logged)

Re: Corporate Football
08 February, 2018 09:24
Quote:
Aldo'smuzzy
Quote:
CosterD
Is it just me or am I the only one actually having enjoyed watching football at Prenton Park for the last two and a half years. We are winning regularly - indeed our win record even outstrips that at the height of the Johnny King era, the atmosphere is better than it's been for years, and the gates are only 3,000 down on what we achieved when on the verge of the Premiership - and much of that difference was made up by massive away support provided by the bigger teams. Don't get me wrong - I want a return to league football as much as any man - but I'm still enjoying myself more than I have done for years. And as for the Premier League - no thank you! Not even if we somehow managed to reach those heady heights again.


I'd go along with much of that but, for me, the enjoyment and excitement is overshadowed by the knowledge that there's only one automatic promotion place up for grabs. Similarly, any excitement at qualifying for the playoffs is overshadowed by the probability of not winning them. For these reasons I find this league too nerve-wracking to be deep-down enjoyable, whereas if we were doing this well in Leagues 2 or 1, where there's a few more promotion slots and the downside of missing out isn't so bad, it'd be much more fun.

I agree, as much as I enjoy this league and going away to these little villages to watch us play. The quality of football and refereeing is pretty poor. Would like to see us in the Championship ideally, really good quality of football, big teams and not overly spoilt by the media hype.

 
Fiftyyearsarover
Fiftyyearsarover (IP Logged)

Re: Corporate Football
08 February, 2018 15:31
Totally agree with all that’s been said ,I don’t care a tot for the PL hate the hype ,all treated like gods ,half of them can’t even speak English ,managers mumbling through interviews .players praying .kissing the turf .stupid dances and hand actions when they score .i would not ever go to a PL game even if I was given a ticket for nothing .once a white always a white for me the NL not great but at least it’s genuine supporters who watch it


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