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MESSAGES->author
hong kong rover (IP Logged)

The 3G pitch debate
24 December, 2017 14:47
There is an interesting article on the BBC Footy Website in the NL section titled,, 'When promotion could mean relegation, National League trio may be forced to install grass pitches,'.. sorry but I don't know how to post the article on to the forum.

 
the kav
the kav (IP Logged)

Re: The 3G pitch debate
24 December, 2017 14:57
The most interesting line in the article is ' fifa approved pitches' begs the question would the national league back down if it went to court ?

 
MESSAGES->author
Yiggsy (IP Logged)

Re: The 3G pitch debate
24 December, 2017 18:15
[www.bbc.co.uk]

does this work?

 
MESSAGES->author
Yiggsy (IP Logged)

Re: The 3G pitch debate
24 December, 2017 18:19
Just copy and paste the address line hkr. (right click on the address line then select "copy" then in your post right click "paste")

Oh and Happy Christmas which it will be now where you are!

 
coltran
coltran (IP Logged)

Re: The 3G pitch debate
24 December, 2017 18:25
Unless I'm missing something, it doesn't make sense that if a club wins promotion from the national League to League 2 with a plastic pitch that if they refuse to change to grass they are relegated to National North/South. Why can't they simply stay in National League if that league's rules allow it? Very strange and illogical?

 
Hoots Mon
Hoots Mon (IP Logged)

Re: The 3G pitch debate
24 December, 2017 19:39
Quote:
coltran
Unless I'm missing something, it doesn't make sense that if a club wins promotion from the national League to League 2 with a plastic pitch that if they refuse to change to grass they are relegated to National North/South. Why can't they simply stay in National League if that league's rules allow it? Very strange and illogical?

+1

 
Cybertron
Cybertron (IP Logged)

Re: The 3G pitch debate
24 December, 2017 23:55
Quote:
coltran
Unless I'm missing something, it doesn't make sense that if a club wins promotion from the national League to League 2 with a plastic pitch that if they refuse to change to grass they are relegated to National North/South. Why can't they simply stay in National League if that league's rules allow it? Very strange and illogical?
I can only assume it is to make sure NL teams are 'serious' about getting promoted and meeting L2 criteria

 
MESSAGES->author
hong kong rover (IP Logged)

Re: The 3G pitch debate
25 December, 2017 00:27
Those 3 clubs have only 7 days left to state their intentions. Make your mind up time for sutton, bromley n maidstone.

 
MESSAGES->author
hong kong rover (IP Logged)

Re: The 3G pitch debate
25 December, 2017 00:29
It does seem harsh that they could be threatened with relegation.

 
MESSAGES->author
hong kong rover (IP Logged)

Re: The 3G pitch debate
25 December, 2017 00:30
Quote:
Yiggsy
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/42425377
does this work?

Thks yiggsy. Merry xmas.

 
MESSAGES->author
hong kong rover (IP Logged)

Re: The 3G pitch debate
25 December, 2017 00:39
Tennis has a hard court season, clay court season and grass court season. How about footy having a synthetic 3G season and a grass season..LOL.

 
Man in the Midlands

Re: The 3G pitch debate
25 December, 2017 07:07
Yes they should be relegated if the will not fulfill Football League rules. It would be unfair on teams promoted from NL north/south to be denied their rightful promotion by teams who will not comply to FL rules.

 
MESSAGES->author
Yiggsy (IP Logged)

Re: The 3G pitch debate
25 December, 2017 10:06
erm.... whisper it quietly but if Sutton and Bromley don't sign up to dig up their pitches that puts us in a play-off place as it stands!

 
the kav
the kav (IP Logged)

Re: The 3G pitch debate
25 December, 2017 11:53
66 percent of our away wins this season have been on plastic

 
Higgosboots
Higgosboots (IP Logged)

Re: The 3G pitch debate
26 December, 2017 08:46
Don’t see the big issue especially in league 1 & 2, far less chance of postponement, they are great surfaces to play football on. Interestingly the majority of Top pitches are part synthetic to ensure the best possible playing surface.

[www.wembleystadium.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 26/12/2017 08:47 by Higgosboots.

 
coltran
coltran (IP Logged)

Re: The 3G pitch debate
26 December, 2017 09:29
So why are clubs with plastic pitches allowed into the National Leagues in the first place? The ruling is totally nonsensical and illogical

 
Higgosboots
Higgosboots (IP Logged)

Re: The 3G pitch debate
26 December, 2017 18:31
Quote:
coltran
So why are clubs with plastic pitches allowed into the National Leagues in the first place? The ruling is totally nonsensical and illogical

Because no artificial surfaces are a FL rule, they have artificial pitches to save on upkeep. All 3 will no doubt commit to a pitch change or ground share this week, but the financial reward still outweighs the cost. Interested to see if Sutton would go full time or stay part if promoted.

 
Mattc777
CaptainFriendly (IP Logged)

Re: The 3G pitch debate
27 December, 2017 20:15
Quote:
Man in the Midlands
Yes they should be relegated if the will not fulfill Football League rules. It would be unfair on teams promoted from NL north/south to be denied their rightful promotion by teams who will not comply to FL rules.

Well said mate. A point that seems obvious now you mention it

 
coltran
coltran (IP Logged)

Re: The 3G pitch debate
27 December, 2017 21:45
Quote:
CaptainFriendly
Quote:
Man in the Midlands
Yes they should be relegated if the will not fulfill Football League rules. It would be unfair on teams promoted from NL north/south to be denied their rightful promotion by teams who will not comply to FL rules.

Well said mate. A point that seems obvious now you mention it

It still doesn't make sense really. If we are expecting National League clubs to behave as League 2 clubs, why the hell are we allowing them to play in the National League with plastic pitches?
Also, if they win promotion to League 2 and are basically denied promotion, why aren't they effectively relegated to the National League (where plastic pitches are allowed) instead of National North or South. In my opinion, the thinking behind this crazy state of affairs is badly skewed. Also any club suffering relegation (effectively a double relegation) to National North/South under these circumstances would surely have such a decision overthrown in a Court of Law on business grounds. Usually, in the courts, common sense and fairness prevails.

 
MESSAGES->author
Matt34 (IP Logged)

Re: The 3G pitch debate
28 December, 2017 00:10
It would be easy to spare any L2 teams that would drop down, as a result of any club(s) with a 3G surface getting promoted the drop, then the club(s) with a 3G surface would stay put and the NLN and NLS teams going up would not be affected and could still stay up.

This would negate any reason to deny those teams a rightful promotion from the two feeder leagues.



Then I ate his Liver.......... with some baked beans and a can of coke.

 
MESSAGES->author
hong kong rover (IP Logged)

Re: The 3G pitch debate
28 December, 2017 07:52
Quote:
Matt34
It would be easy to spare any L2 teams that would drop down, as a result of any club(s) with a 3G surface getting promoted the drop, then the club(s) with a 3G surface would stay put and the NLN and NLS teams going up would not be affected and could still stay up.
This would negate any reason to deny those teams a rightful promotion from the two feeder leagues.

+1 this would be the fair and sensible way to deal with the situation, if it were to arise.. being threatened with relegation is too harsh.

 
MESSAGES->author
hong kong rover (IP Logged)

Re: The 3G pitch debate
28 December, 2017 08:24
Mind you, if FGR were to finish 92nd in the footy league and were allowed to keep their league status then I would have to re-think things.. lol. Only joking.

 
terribletid
terribletid (IP Logged)

Re: The 3G pitch debate
28 December, 2017 13:18
Quote:
hong kong rover
Quote:
Matt34
It would be easy to spare any L2 teams that would drop down, as a result of any club(s) with a 3G surface getting promoted the drop, then the club(s) with a 3G surface would stay put and the NLN and NLS teams going up would not be affected and could still stay up.
This would negate any reason to deny those teams a rightful promotion from the two feeder leagues.

+1 this would be the fair and sensible way to deal with the situation, if it were to arise.. being threatened with relegation is too harsh.

But say Tranmere finish 2nd behind Sutton, just for the sake of the argument. Would we all really agree in such a situation that Tranmere shouldn't go up automatically (and that fewer teams should be promoted into League 2) just because Sutton participated while knowing that they couldn't actually be promoted with a fake pitch? It's already hard enough to get into the Football League...

I think the current rules are perfectly reasonable. The clubs know what the rules are, so shouldn't be moaning. This came up last year, before Bromley installed their pitch for example.

The main question is whether the EFL rules should change to permit plastic pitches. I'm all in favour of cost reductions but I'm not 100% convinced yet. Having watched games in Sutton, Maidstone and Bromley, the pitch certainly does play differently and could constitute an unfair advantage for the home side? Witness Sutton's cup run last year. They're also regularly terrible games - probably due as much to the clubs in question although partly also the opposition trying to get to grips with the pitch I suspect.

 
dicko111
dicko111 (IP Logged)

Re: The 3G pitch debate
28 December, 2017 13:45
OK we have won on two of the 3G pitches so far this season (so not really a disadvantage to us )but can a team get promoted because they have deserved it through playing good football or because they have an advantage of playing half the season on a 3G pitch .I would say that they need to remove the 3G pitch and replace for what ever cost but comes out of there promotion monies to L2

 
MESSAGES->author
Matt34 (IP Logged)

Re: The 3G pitch debate
28 December, 2017 22:44
Quote:
terribletid
But say Tranmere finish 2nd behind Sutton, just for the sake of the argument. Would we all really agree in such a situation that Tranmere shouldn't go up automatically (and that fewer teams should be promoted into League 2) just because Sutton participated while knowing that they couldn't actually be promoted with a fake pitch?

In that case Tranmere would get promoted and one L2 team would go down. Sutton would be allowed into the playoffs but not allowed promotion if they won the final. If Two clubs with a 3G pitch got into the top two neither would go up, both 1st would be replaced by 3rd, 2nd ends up in the playoffs and is denied promotion if they win the final, but then the clubs with 3G pitches would be able to play in the playoffs to be able to get monies together from the playoffs to help them finance the pitch alterations, needed to get promotion.

It's the rules as it stands; a bit like buying a £2 lottery ticket then expecting the petrol station or supermarket or whoever, to give you £16,000,000 from that branch, when it says that any amount over X must be claimed off the promoters.



Then I ate his Liver.......... with some baked beans and a can of coke.

 
Cybertron
Cybertron (IP Logged)

Re: The 3G pitch debate
28 December, 2017 23:42
Quote:
Matt34
Quote:
terribletid
But say Tranmere finish 2nd behind Sutton, just for the sake of the argument. Would we all really agree in such a situation that Tranmere shouldn't go up automatically (and that fewer teams should be promoted into League 2) just because Sutton participated while knowing that they couldn't actually be promoted with a fake pitch?

In that case Tranmere would get promoted and one L2 team would go down. Sutton would be allowed into the playoffs but not allowed promotion if they won the final. If Two clubs with a 3G pitch got into the top two neither would go up, both 1st would be replaced by 3rd, 2nd ends up in the playoffs and is denied promotion if they win the final, but then the clubs with 3G pitches would be able to play in the playoffs to be able to get monies together from the playoffs to help them finance the pitch alterations, needed to get promotion.

It's the rules as it stands; a bit like buying a £2 lottery ticket then expecting the petrol station or supermarket or whoever, to give you £16,000,000 from that branch, when it says that any amount over X must be claimed off the promoters.
I suspect that the League would take a vote and not promote Sutton, and only have one team promoted and one relegated, if the League 2 clubs get to vote on that, there is only one way it will end.

 
mini_andy
mini_andy (IP Logged)

Re: The 3G pitch debate
29 December, 2017 07:19
Surely if a team got promoted, then the easiest option would be to ground share for a season? If they survive the first year in the football leagues, then it would suggest that they have a decent chance of staying there.

But if they spent all the money replacing the pitch, then they would be a bit annoyed if they came straight back down again!

 
MESSAGES->author
BELMONT (IP Logged)

Re: The 3G pitch debate
29 December, 2017 11:57
Quote:
mini_andy
Surely if a team got promoted, then the easiest option would be to ground share for a season? If they survive the first year in the football leagues, then it would suggest that they have a decent chance of staying there.
But if they spent all the money replacing the pitch, then they would be a bit annoyed if they came straight back down again!


Surely if you take part in any competition you know what the rules state therefore you have to abide by them. Not saying it's right but when in Rome do what the Romans do.

So if teams find themselves in a promotion spot they have to change to stay with in the rules, if a pitch has to come up it comes up so be it. If you don't like the heat stay out of the kitchen.

So until the rules are changed for all so be it, all of the other teams in our division have grass pitches with out the income of a plastic pitch and have to live with out that income.

 
roger mellie
roger mellie (IP Logged)

Re: The 3G pitch debate
29 December, 2017 16:32
Only a matter of time before 3/4G is allowed in the EFL. But rules are rules. And instead of moaning about it, the three southern plastic teams should put their grounds in order. None are fit for purpose. As are their fanbases, perhaps with the exception of Maidstone.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/01/2018 16:48 by roger mellie.

 
MESSAGES->author
Matt34 (IP Logged)

Re: The 3G pitch debate
29 December, 2017 21:31
Quote:
roger mellie
Only a matter of time before 3/4G is allowed in the NL.

Did you mean to put that 3G will be allowed in League 2, or that it won't be allowed in the NL, as your statement refers to something that already is allowed.



Then I ate his Liver.......... with some baked beans and a can of coke.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/01/2018 19:52 by Matt34.

 
MESSAGES->author
hong kong rover (IP Logged)

Re: The 3G pitch debate
01 January, 2018 13:18
So yesterday was deadline day for Sutton, Maidstone n Bromley to outline their intentions about meeting the EFL criteria/requirements, should any of them get promoted. Ive just had a quick look on the Sutton Utd club website, coz out of those 3 they probably have the better chance of going up, and mentioned in an end of year/new years message on the site was this comment...

'The possibility of promotion will bring its own challenges for 2018, not least the issue of 3G pitches not currently being allowed in the Football League. But we will cross those bridges if and when we need to and, in the words of Mr Baldrick, we have a plan..'

wonder what their plan is??? Maybe some vehement and continuous campaigning with the EFL between now and the summer to get the EFL to change their stance on 3G pitches..? ground sharing...? Even with the huge target of becoming a member of the football league I very very much doubt any of those 3 clubs will revert back to grass.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/01/2018 13:24 by hong kong rover.

 
TimmySoft
TimmySoft (IP Logged)

Re: The 3G pitch debate
01 January, 2018 14:09
Sutton would just ground share with AFC Wimbledon.

 
MESSAGES->author
Matt34 (IP Logged)

Re: The 3G pitch debate
01 January, 2018 19:52
Assuming AFC Wimbledon would allow it.



Then I ate his Liver.......... with some baked beans and a can of coke.


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