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Higgosboots
Higgosboots (IP Logged)

Lessons not learnt
08 August, 2017 20:38
We continually fail to learn from what's gone before season to season. 2 up cruising, suddenly 2-1 and under the cosh. Where they had been going in thinking nothing here for us, suddenly they are almost on terms.

To win any league you have to do two things; understand that your opponent will have a strong spell in the game, Championship sides will weather that and not panic and usually score from it, knocking the revival on the head. I don't ink we are ever prepared for that.

Secondly there will be games that you dint feature in and get battered, you need to win them 1-0.

Finally the strikers don't learn, the two starters spots are very much up for grabs and someone needs to get a hold of the game and force the managers hand by banging goals in, Stockton did it last season.

 
trfc-boi
trfc-boi (IP Logged)

Re: Lessons not learnt
08 August, 2017 20:45
I thought Woking have played ok in patches, they have pace on wings & big forward Effiong, Rovers have been passing the ball nicely, short, quick touches, sure I counted 20 passes & shot on goal. Deffo need to stop giving teams a chance, right on half time, game should be 3-0 rovers, instead of an awkward 2-1. Rovers goals have been class.

 
Higgosboots
Higgosboots (IP Logged)

Re: Lessons not learnt
08 August, 2017 21:04
Quote:
trfc-boi
I thought Woking have played ok in patches, they have pace on wings & big forward Effiong, Rovers have been passing the ball nicely, short, quick touches, sure I counted 20 passes & shot on goal. Deffo need to stop giving teams a chance, right on half time, game should be 3-0 rovers, instead of an awkward 2-1. Rovers goals have been class.

Exactamund

 
Hoots Mon
Hoots Mon (IP Logged)

Re: Lessons not learnt
09 August, 2017 00:18
Quote:
Higgosboots
We continually fail to learn from what's gone before season to season. 2 up cruising, suddenly 2-1 and under the cosh. Where they had been going in thinking nothing here for us, suddenly they are almost on terms.
To win any league you have to do two things; understand that your opponent will have a strong spell in the game, Championship sides will weather that and not panic and usually score from it, knocking the revival on the head. I don't ink we are ever prepared for that.

Secondly there will be games that you dint feature in and get battered, you need to win them 1-0.

Finally the strikers don't learn, the two starters spots are very much up for grabs and someone needs to get a hold of the game and force the managers hand by banging goals in, Stockton did it last season.


Soryy but the other team are allowed to score good goals too. It was a superb cross and decent glancing header.

We only had one up front not two.

We weren't ''under the cosh''at any stage . They had some decent attacks [especially at 3-1]and Davies made two or three excellent saves. They had a good go and should be praised for that but we could have had a lot more than 3.

 
DevonExile
DevonExile (IP Logged)

Re: Lessons not learnt
09 August, 2017 07:44
Cook not only scored but he created pressure and space for others.He held the ball up well and won most things in the air.
If anything needs to be learnt it is that he is our best forward and should not have to wait for injuries or suspensions before starting

 
Higgosboots
Higgosboots (IP Logged)

Re: Lessons not learnt
09 August, 2017 08:26
Quote:
Hoots Mon
Quote:
Higgosboots
We continually fail to learn from what's gone before season to season. 2 up cruising, suddenly 2-1 and under the cosh. Where they had been going in thinking nothing here for us, suddenly they are almost on terms.
To win any league you have to do two things; understand that your opponent will have a strong spell in the game, Championship sides will weather that and not panic and usually score from it, knocking the revival on the head. I don't ink we are ever prepared for that.

Secondly there will be games that you dint feature in and get battered, you need to win them 1-0.

Finally the strikers don't learn, the two starters spots are very much up for grabs and someone needs to get a hold of the game and force the managers hand by banging goals in, Stockton did it last season.


Soryy but the other team are allowed to score good goals too. It was a superb cross and decent glancing header.

We only had one up front not two.

We weren't ''under the cosh''at any stage . They had some decent attacks [especially at 3-1]and Davies made two or three excellent saves. They had a good go and should be praised for that but we could have had a lot more than 3.

They are allowed to score goals but we have a habit of constantly conceding at 2-0 up when there has been limited opportunity, we came through but those kind of things have throw away 2-0 lead all over them like the last two seasons.

 
roger mellie
roger mellie (IP Logged)

Re: Lessons not learnt
09 August, 2017 08:54
It was a great goal. Didn't see it coming. But you have to take the positives out of how we responded to conceding. Could have been 6 or 7 in the second half.

 
MoanerLesser
853OKG (IP Logged)

Re: Lessons not learnt
09 August, 2017 09:21
Quote:
Hoots Mon
Quote:
Higgosboots
We continually fail to learn from what's gone before season to season. 2 up cruising, suddenly 2-1 and under the cosh. Where they had been going in thinking nothing here for us, suddenly they are almost on terms.
To win any league you have to do two things; understand that your opponent will have a strong spell in the game, Championship sides will weather that and not panic and usually score from it, knocking the revival on the head. I don't ink we are ever prepared for that.

Secondly there will be games that you dint feature in and get battered, you need to win them 1-0.

Finally the strikers don't learn, the two starters spots are very much up for grabs and someone needs to get a hold of the game and force the managers hand by banging goals in, Stockton did it last season.


Soryy but the other team are allowed to score good goals too. It was a superb cross and decent glancing header.

We only had one up front not two.

We weren't ''under the cosh''at any stage . They had some decent attacks [especially at 3-1]and Davies made two or three excellent saves. They had a good go and should be praised for that but we could have had a lot more than 3.
it was poor defending.

 
wasnotwas
wasnotwas (IP Logged)

Re: Lessons not learnt
09 August, 2017 09:35
Some of our football was superb, some of the short passing to get out of trouble was class.

I felt at 2:0 up we got too casual. Their goal came from a move where we were simply outpaced to get to the ball. We have a serious lack of pace throughout this side, especially at the back and up front. Cant wait for Tollitt to come back.

Harris superb and my MOTM. Could have got promoted if we hadnt lost him at the end of last season.

Referee, as usual, absolutely dreadful, our lads were simply hacked down a few times in the last 15 minutes with no adequate response from the ref.

 
Yardleys Cat
Yardleys Cat (IP Logged)

Re: Lessons not learnt
09 August, 2017 11:11
After just two games this season it's a bit harsh to say 'we continually fail to learn'.
Yes we conceded a goal but for me the big difference was that we bounced back scored one and could have scored several more. Last night was a huge improvement on last season and to say that we were 'under the cosh' is just wrong. All teams wIll concede goals and we certainly did not panic when we did last night. A very good performance and I'm a bit surprised some people choose to focus on the negatives.

 
MoanerLesser
853OKG (IP Logged)

Re: Lessons not learnt
09 August, 2017 11:45
Quote:
Yardleys Cat
After just two games this season it's a bit harsh to say 'we continually fail to learn'.
Yes we conceded a goal but for me the big difference was that we bounced back scored one and could have scored several more. Last night was a huge improvement on last season and to say that we were 'under the cosh' is just wrong. All teams wIll concede goals and we certainly did not panic when we did last night. A very good performance and I'm a bit surprised some people choose to focus on the negatives.

I dont think that pointiing out that there is a tendency to concede poor goals with two minutes to go in a half is negative , it serves to remind players to keep concentration for 45+ minutes. Yes it didnt derail them last night which is a positive. As Micky keeps saying , they have to learn and improve if they want to finish top .

The tranmere goals were first class and a lot of the passing was as well.

 
Yardleys Cat
Yardleys Cat (IP Logged)

Re: Lessons not learnt
09 August, 2017 11:51
Erm, we don't have a tendency to call needed poor goals in the last two minutes of the first half this season. The season is two games old. That was the point I was making.

 
MESSAGES->author
2 the moon (IP Logged)

Re: Lessons not learnt
09 August, 2017 12:10
We went 2 up and they tightened up for a few minutes. Good tactics imo. Looked a decent goal back they got but at no point after that goal did I see us 'under the cosh'

 
ming05
ming05 (IP Logged)

Re: Lessons not learnt
09 August, 2017 12:51
I'm one of the first to moan, but for me I think we had another gear last night and if needed could have stepped up the game.

 
Hoots Mon
Hoots Mon (IP Logged)

Re: Lessons not learnt
09 August, 2017 14:26
Quote:
853OKG
Quote:
Yardleys Cat
After just two games this season it's a bit harsh to say 'we continually fail to learn'.
Yes we conceded a goal but for me the big difference was that we bounced back scored one and could have scored several more. Last night was a huge improvement on last season and to say that we were 'under the cosh' is just wrong. All teams wIll concede goals and we certainly did not panic when we did last night. A very good performance and I'm a bit surprised some people choose to focus on the negatives.

I dont think that pointiing out that there is a tendency to concede poor goals with two minutes to go in a half is negative , it serves to remind players to keep concentration for 45+ minutes. Yes it didnt derail them last night which is a positive. As Micky keeps saying , they have to learn and improve if they want to finish top .

The tranmere goals were first class and a lot of the passing was as well.

If you insist that the Woking goal was ''poor defending''which I don't agree with your comment,then surely it can be equally said that Cook's fine goal from their point of view,was also poor defending

 
tranmerepete
tranmerepete (IP Logged)

Re: Lessons not learnt
09 August, 2017 14:58
Your not going play 90 minutes with out the other team having a better patch.....

 
MoanerLesser
853OKG (IP Logged)

Re: Lessons not learnt
09 August, 2017 15:39
Quote:
Hoots Mon
Quote:
853OKG
Quote:
Yardleys Cat
After just two games this season it's a bit harsh to say 'we continually fail to learn'.
Yes we conceded a goal but for me the big difference was that we bounced back scored one and could have scored several more. Last night was a huge improvement on last season and to say that we were 'under the cosh' is just wrong. All teams wIll concede goals and we certainly did not panic when we did last night. A very good performance and I'm a bit surprised some people choose to focus on the negatives.

I dont think that pointiing out that there is a tendency to concede poor goals with two minutes to go in a half is negative , it serves to remind players to keep concentration for 45+ minutes. Yes it didnt derail them last night which is a positive. As Micky keeps saying , they have to learn and improve if they want to finish top .

The tranmere goals were first class and a lot of the passing was as well.

If you insist that the Woking goal was ''poor defending''which I don't agree with your comment,then surely it can be equally said that Cook's fine goal from their point of view,was also poor defending

You are always right so there ends the debate.

 
MESSAGES->author
Doogie'sGhost (IP Logged)

Re: Lessons not learnt
09 August, 2017 16:57
Quote:
Higgosboots
Quote:
Hoots Mon
Quote:
Higgosboots
We continually fail to learn from what's gone before season to season. 2 up cruising, suddenly 2-1 and under the cosh. Where they had been going in thinking nothing here for us, suddenly they are almost on terms.
To win any league you have to do two things; understand that your opponent will have a strong spell in the game, Championship sides will weather that and not panic and usually score from it, knocking the revival on the head. I don't ink we are ever prepared for that.

Secondly there will be games that you dint feature in and get battered, you need to win them 1-0.

Finally the strikers don't learn, the two starters spots are very much up for grabs and someone needs to get a hold of the game and force the managers hand by banging goals in, Stockton did it last season.


Soryy but the other team are allowed to score good goals too. It was a superb cross and decent glancing header.

We only had one up front not two.

We weren't ''under the cosh''at any stage . They had some decent attacks [especially at 3-1]and Davies made two or three excellent saves. They had a good go and should be praised for that but we could have had a lot more than 3.

They are allowed to score goals but we have a habit of constantly conceding at 2-0 up when there has been limited opportunity, we came through but Rhode kind of things have throw away 2-0 lead all over them like the last two seasons.

If our great weakness is conceding a goal when we are 2-0 up then I'll take that. Not many teams score twice against us. Getting 2 up has been our big problem, not letting teams back into games.

 
MESSAGES->author
Phil65 (IP Logged)

Re: Lessons not learnt
09 August, 2017 17:19
The difference was that the game didn't get nervy as it has in the past. We always looked in control so let's see this as a positive. We will concede goals, but it's not the end of the world if we continue to stay focused and positive.

 
Hoots Mon
Hoots Mon (IP Logged)

Re: Lessons not learnt
09 August, 2017 17:33
Quote:
Doogie'sGhost
Quote:
Higgosboots
Quote:
Hoots Mon
Quote:
Higgosboots
We continually fail to learn from what's gone before season to season. 2 up cruising, suddenly 2-1 and under the cosh. Where they had been going in thinking nothing here for us, suddenly they are almost on terms.
To win any league you have to do two things; understand that your opponent will have a strong spell in the game, Championship sides will weather that and not panic and usually score from it, knocking the revival on the head. I don't ink we are ever prepared for that.

Secondly there will be games that you dint feature in and get battered, you need to win them 1-0.

Finally the strikers don't learn, the two starters spots are very much up for grabs and someone needs to get a hold of the game and force the managers hand by banging goals in, Stockton did it last season.


Soryy but the other team are allowed to score good goals too. It was a superb cross and decent glancing header.

We only had one up front not two.

We weren't ''under the cosh''at any stage . They had some decent attacks [especially at 3-1]and Davies made two or three excellent saves. They had a good go and should be praised for that but we could have had a lot more than 3.

They are allowed to score goals but we have a habit of constantly conceding at 2-0 up when there has been limited opportunity, we came through but Rhode kind of things have throw away 2-0 lead all over them like the last two seasons.

If our great weakness is conceding a goal when we are 2-0 up then I'll take that. Not many teams score twice against us. Getting 2 up has been our big problem, not letting teams back into games.


+1

 
Re: Lessons not learnt
09 August, 2017 18:15
Higgosboots you don't sit in the lower Kop do you? There is also a fella there who constantly moans week in week out, I honestly don't know why he bothers wasting his money. Any team no matter who they are might look a little uneasy at 2-1 that's football. Apart from a very brief spell of pressure we dominated the game and out footballed them in every area of the pitch. If we win like that for the rest of the season I will be happy.

 
Town End
Town End (IP Logged)

Re: Lessons not learnt
09 August, 2017 18:31
Rediculous post! Early days 4 points I'm happy

 
Higgosboots
Higgosboots (IP Logged)

Re: Lessons not learnt
09 August, 2017 21:18
Quote:
steve mungalls Highlights
Higgosboots you don't sit in the lower Kop do you? There is also a fella there who constantly moans week in week out, I honestly don't know why he bothers wasting his money. Any team no matter who they are might look a little uneasy at 2-1 that's football. Apart from a very brief spell of pressure we dominated the game and out footballed them in every area of the pitch. If we win like that for the rest of the season I will be happy.

Who's moaning. Improvement in sport is all about planning and preparation if you thinknthe manager doesn't critique a performance then think again, the performer that thinks he or she can not improve does not win.

I am pointing out that taking the past 2 seasons to account we have not learnt, therefore querying wether it's being recognised or are the players incapable of change, that therefore could be the reason they are at this level in some cases.

It is quite apparent that lack of availability of players cost us last season, as all have identified there is ref protection. We will loose key players to injury look at Harris last night. Given that it should be incumbent on players not to get sent off stupidly for example back chatting when on a yellow or putting yourself in the position where that can be accused or elbowing someone because you have an attitude and are now unavailable for 3 games, when you spent 6 odd games last season unavailable for behavioural issues when key players were injured. Nothing learnt here then.

Ok we won last night, they scored because we switched off, Davies made a good save just on half at 2-1 which fell to our centre half could easily have fell to there player and 2-2 crowd on back, oppos tails up. What do they say stay tight for 10'after you score.

We lost the league cuz we failed to beat Lincoln last season, Did we? We finished 4 points behind, off the top of my head Chester home 2-0 up finished 2-2 Tollit sent off at 2-1, Bromley home 2-0 up finished 2-2 Buxton sent off at 2-0, debatable decision but had no reason to make the tackle and give the ref the chance. There's 4 points.

Dagenham away, 0-0 Ihewkie sent off after 60 odd minutes for a stupid second yellow, didn't need to commit. 2 points lost

Southport away 1-0 up finished 1-1 they hadn't taken a point for a good few games. 2 points lost.

I make that 8 points in total enough to see us finish on 103 points. Even if you discount Daggers where we didn't actually take the lead however where on top when ihewike went it's 101 points. And that still allows for the games we lost.

1st NL season missed play off lottery by a point or whatever, gave at least three 2-0 away at home.

 
Loyden1
Loyden1 (IP Logged)

Re: Lessons not learnt
09 August, 2017 23:18
You would also get a lincoln fan with same sort of moans .miss pens against Sutton guisley ref .10 men at bromley etc etc

 
MoanerLesser
853OKG (IP Logged)

Re: Lessons not learnt
09 August, 2017 23:39
Quote:
Hoots Mon
Quote:
Doogie'sGhost
Quote:
Higgosboots
Quote:
Hoots Mon
Quote:
Higgosboots
We continually fail to learn from what's gone before season to season. 2 up cruising, suddenly 2-1 and under the cosh. Where they had been going in thinking nothing here for us, suddenly they are almost on terms.
To win any league you have to do two things; understand that your opponent will have a strong spell in the game, Championship sides will weather that and not panic and usually score from it, knocking the revival on the head. I don't ink we are ever prepared for that.

Secondly there will be games that you dint feature in and get battered, you need to win them 1-0.

Finally the strikers don't learn, the two starters spots are very much up for grabs and someone needs to get a hold of the game and force the managers hand by banging goals in, Stockton did it last season.


Soryy but the other team are allowed to score good goals too. It was a superb cross and decent glancing header.

We only had one up front not two.

We weren't ''under the cosh''at any stage . They had some decent attacks [especially at 3-1]and Davies made two or three excellent saves. They had a good go and should be praised for that but we could have had a lot more than 3.

They are allowed to score goals but we have a habit of constantly conceding at 2-0 up when there has been limited opportunity, we came through but Rhode kind of things have throw away 2-0 lead all over them like the last two seasons.

If our great weakness is conceding a goal when we are 2-0 up then I'll take that. Not many teams score twice against us. Getting 2 up has been our big problem, not letting teams back into games.


+1

There were times last season when we were ahead and ended up with a draw or a loss. There is no disgrace in anyone on here suggesting that the management concentrate on improving the shortfalls . that is not negativity just common sense. If the team can continue to outscore last year' s team, great. However , realistically .....

As has been stated some of the interplay was fantastic and it was. Very entertaining. . However, it was also grea at times when we drew or lost last season....

It is a fine line between champions and also rans in this league

And we all want tranmere promoted which probably needs the Lincoln clinical approach this season



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 10/08/2017 00:28 by 853OKG.

 
MESSAGES->author
Matt34 (IP Logged)

Re: Lessons not learnt
10 August, 2017 00:11
Conceding goals does however need to be assessed by coaches and management in context, as some goals will be sloppy and some just unable to be dealt with because of the quality and managers knee-jerking over a couple of belter's in a 2-3 game spell could be seen as panicky and maybe even be a negative move.

If however, goals are conceded in a way that may promote a trend, then management should obviously look at that as well, as it can often be mental thing if goals are conceded too often in the first or last 5 minutes of a half,

However if Mellon thinks defending needs tightening up on then he will try to address that I'm sure, as there is no guarantee, despite the "on paper" squad available, that an equal or better tally of league goals will be acheived this season and if less goals are scored, then less will obviously need to be conceded to maintain a good chance of finishing top and at least as many if not more than the number of less goals not scored.



Then I ate his Liver.......... with some baked beans and a can of coke.

 
Claytonne&Clark
Claytonne&Clark (IP Logged)

Re: Lessons not learnt
10 August, 2017 11:04
2-0 up is probably the time when we are most likely to concede when playing teams who aren't chasing promotion.

At 0-0, the game plan for opponents will be to sit tight, make sure they don't concede the first goal and hope to catch us out. When attacking, they will keep their shape at the back.

At 1-0 (2-1 etc.), the tactics will stay the same. On one hand, they will push forward more as their goal becomes more important. But, individuals will be more aware of their defensive roles as our goal threat will be more apparent.

At 2-0 (3-1 etc.), they will attack more. Their game plan won't work and conceding another won't necessarily affect the outcome of the game. So players will take chances and push forward, they will take the game to us more, and in a way which is hard to predict and wasn't really what we prepared for. So suddenly the game plan is out of the window, and we need to readjust to a changing game, which can be a bit of a lottery. At Championship level the players have the knowledge and ability to adapt their games in a way players don't at our level.

At 3-0 (4-1 etc.), it's purely damage limitation, so teams go back to being defensive and worrying about not conceding more than scoring.

Similarly, if we got behind, the tactics are the same as at 0-0.

If we are able to control matches with a 1-goal lead, but not with a 2-goal lead, that actually suits us well. Teams being able to score against us at 2-0, but not 2-1, is a good thing. If a 2-0 lead turns into 2-2 we are in trouble, but making the game closer again isn't too problematic if we generally concede few goals when the scores are tight.


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