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Victory Makes Arsenal Light Headed? Stakes high
Arsenal Times (IP Logged)
24 October, 2008 13:00
Victory Makes Arsenal Light Headed? Stakes high

Re: Victory Makes Arsenal Light Headed? Stakes high
Paul Alerte (IP Logged)
24 October, 2008 14:54
Hi everybody out there,
I was kind of busy and depressed reading the different blogs and articles about buying: "We should buy", "We should buy" "We should spend big money" .....
Headlessly this seems to be the wholly truth to evevryone, but I don't buy it. I won't buy a DM because I've got a lot of midfielders. Denilson is up for the job, so are Song, Diaby ....
They want Hleb, Flamini... Why because they left.
Flamni was and is a good average player, and so is hleb. Arsenal made them look better than what they really are.
Denilson is a better player than Flamini by a country mile, even at this age.
It seems to me that some people just see the defensive midfielder's role as the one defined by makekele and chelsea, or by Flamini last year, but this is not true.
I don't buy it. Because, as a player on a pitch, you know the best defense is to attack tiressly.
Yes there's something to do with our central defense. But no matter how good is your defense, if you do not attack you will always concede goals. Simple fact : One concedes goals when defending, not when you are playing in the last third of the opposition.
Conceding goals doesn't mean, you are not good enough to win a trophy.

Talking about trophies, there's a sense of arrogance in some quarters of arsenal's fans, and that makes me sad because people are not using their head and nobody has the decency to stay quiet.
I'm sick of listening or reading blogs of so the called "experts" who know more about drinking than anything else.

We're all sad after a defeat, but who can be more sad than the players on the field ? No matter if you play for money or just for fun, you just want to win if you play a game.
The world has come to know about how great Liverpool fans are after the CL final against Milan AC. Why ? Because, they support the team with both humility and intelligence.
They don't let themselves down.
If the team is losing, it's the time when every player need the support.
A supporter is the one who supports when the going get tough and enjoy when things are turning out in your way. is that really hard to do ?
You cannot ask for everything, just because you've decided to buy the tickets.

I will always be gratefull to the Arsenal of the last ten years or so. I know for sure, it's a lifetime chance, to watch a football team plays like Arsenal.
It's just to watch. It looks easy, but it's not easy.
Trophy or not, this Arsenal will be in my memory until the end. It's like remembering that you're or you've been with the most beautiful and gracefull woman you could dream of.
There's nothing more sad in football than a dirty and ungratefull group fans who go to a stadium and boo people playing because there are not winning, then pretending that we're in a civilized world.
It makes the whole matter of football disgusting.

Re: Victory Makes Arsenal Light Headed? Stakes high
Merlion96 (IP Logged)
24 October, 2008 15:10
Welcome back Paul.

Perhaps I am seeing something that others saw but do not believe.

Wenger is not infallible and some of his decisions last season costed us the title.

He is taking a huge gamble thsi season with his firm beleif in his youngsters to deliver this season, unlike last season where Walcott, Traore, Senderos, Denilson failed to live up to his expectation by Dec 2007.

But this season?
The form of Fabregas, Nasri, Diaby and Walcott is the key.
Vela, Bendtner, Ramsey, Djourou and Song ready by December.
Van Persie, Rosicky and Eduardo all recover by January or overcome their injury jinx.

I am not too worry on West Ham and S*CUMS as those youngsters had learnt the lesson of FUlham and hull City.
They had earned the rights to swagger as their ocnfidence is sky high and for once I beelive 'em.
It should be a comfortable 3-0 victory over West ham as we are palying away and there is less pressure to deliver than at Emirates.

The true test will come on 08-Nov.
That is a match we must win to keep in touch with the leader, as well as to prove that we have a TEAM now..

Re: Victory Makes Arsenal Light Headed? Stakes high
Zainy (IP Logged)
24 October, 2008 15:19
Agree with what your saying. No one says this team is perfect or that anyone is happy with mediocre performances or not picking up trophies. But people act like the team intentionally goes out on the pitch to perform badly or that we should be in the championship rather than the EPL with less than a quarter of the season gone.

Re: Victory Makes Arsenal Light Headed? Stakes high
Optimistic Gunner (IP Logged)
24 October, 2008 15:31
This article points the reason as to why I have changed my name from Optimistic Gunner to Not So Optimistic Gunner.

The aatitude of our current players is p.iss poor compared to the other top four teams.

Our players are way too arrogant at times, they don't any respect to teh so called lesser teams like Fulham, Hull, Sunderland, ect.. and turn up in the match thinking the game is won before the ref even blows the kick off wistle and then they get beat or have to chases the game to get a draw.

The mentality of this new team has been s.hite for the last three seasons and now we have no REAL leadership too.

They also have know ruthless wining mentality that teh likes of Man U and Chel$ki have.

In a lot of games when we score a goal first we take our foot of the pedal, decrease our teampo and start passing backwards and sideways and try fancy flicks thinking the game has been won, instead of looking for the 2nd and 3rd goal to really finish the game off when the opposition is hurt. We then end up conceding a goal, usually a soft one due to our c.rappy defence and so either end up in 'squeaky bum time' scoring a last gasp winner or drawing game, sometimes even losing like against Hull.

I won't be changing by name back to normal, until I see a big improvement in our players attitude and it has to be consistently good, not only against the big teams.

Our team has the quality to win major trophies and even has the depth (if AW uses it properly that is), but its our s.hitty defence, but mianly our player's (maybe even AW's) rather poor attitude that is holding us back from wining the major trophies.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 24/10/2008 15:37 by Not So Optimistic Gunner.

Re: Victory Makes Arsenal Light Headed? Stakes high
Paul Alerte (IP Logged)
24 October, 2008 15:31
Hi Merlion,
It's nice to be back and it's even nicer to get your reply. I enjoy it.
It's a team game.
Yes Wenger made mistakes and will make mistakes. But one things is sure : he can't be mistaken like most of the fans are at the moment.
This team can beat any team in the world with belief and detrmination.
It's impossible to have a team with 11 men capable of delivering the same quality every day. Some players are better than others one day or another.
Denilson is delivering a quality job, and you will find hard to get someone on the market and plug him in straight away in the hope he will adapt in the first place.

Yes we've got some problems dealing with striker like crouch, but any team in the wold has its weaknessess based on the quality proposed by the opposition on the day.

As fans, we need to learn how to lose. Football is equally about winning and losing. But the quality of our play is priceless. That's where Arsene will be regarded one day as one of the best coaches of all time. It's so juicy to watch his teams that even our rivals have to give him credit for that.
Fans who are asking for winning and winning again, fail to recognise that they don't win so often in their own life.
If you don't know the value of a defeat you cannot see the true value of winning.No way, and you prepare yourself for a long and frustrating lifetime.

Re: Victory Makes Arsenal Light Headed? Stakes high
karsene16 (IP Logged)
24 October, 2008 16:42
It seems to me that some people just see the defensive midfielder's role as the one defined by makekele and chelsea, or by Flamini last year, but this is not true.
I don't buy it. Because, as a player on a pitch, you know the best defense is to attack tiressly.

Flamini did push the team to attack a lot to be fair and the invisible wall (Gilberto) did help us become invincibles.
I say give Song a go beside cesc then we will see if a defencive player is needed, Denilson has been excellent, good, poor and shocking this season, defencive and attacking, we are in need of consistancy even if it's from a poorer player.

Re: Victory Makes Arsenal Light Headed? Stakes high
Zainy (IP Logged)
24 October, 2008 17:11
The problem with the teams defense seems to be that the only ones doing the defending are our back four. Of course they are going to be found wanting at times if thats the case. Defense starts right at the top of the field, because if the opposition bypasses the 6 players ahead of the defense everytime they get the ball, they are going to score eventually.
We dont have to have a Makalele type player but currently none of our midfielders (denilson, cesc, walcott and nasri) do a good enough job protecting out defense. It would simply ease the pressure to get a hard man in to let the players ahead of him carry out their natural game.

If you looked at United team last season. They have a good team regardless, im not doubting that, but they also have a team which is full of running and tracking back and helping each other. We see Rooney at the heart of defense on numerous occassions, Scholsey gets back, so does Tevez. They are super fit and fight.
Thats also a reason why Ronaldo scored so many goals. He scored 90% of his goals from a centre forward role because the players around him created so much room for him to run into the box.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 24/10/2008 17:35 by Zainy.

Re: Victory Makes Arsenal Light Headed? Stakes high
Optimistic Gunner (IP Logged)
24 October, 2008 17:25
Another good point Zainy. Spot on.

No one is doing teh dirty work in te middle of the pitch and the attacking players are way too casual. AW needs to put either Song, Djorou or even Kolo at CM instead of the wannabe Denilson. Even Diaby could do teh job cos of his physical presence.

Like I said because of our s.hitty attitude we don't show any urgency in our play till we are a goal down, even then we don't reallly step it up till the last 10 mins of the game.

Re: Victory Makes Arsenal Light Headed? Stakes high
Padre Pio (IP Logged)
24 October, 2008 17:38
I agree Zainy we dont defend as a team

Re: Victory Makes Arsenal Light Headed? Stakes high
Paul Alerte (IP Logged)
24 October, 2008 18:22
Defending like attacking is a team job.

From my own experience and from what I see watching teams and players over a long period is that you put usually your weakest player (technically and pace wise) in the defensive midfielder's hole, because in that area it's more about intercepting thus playing in the space.
It's not strange to see impatient fans getting on the back of DM in particular, and defenders in general.

Trophies serve for vanity most of the time, because the intensity, the pressure and the chalenge start over again any time you start a football match. The trophy is just to win, and once you win it, it's over. The whole process restart in every game.
The primary aim of a game, is to enjoy the moment. In that way, we certainly are part of the luckiest football fans of all time in the history of the game. We must keep this realty in mind no matter how bad we want to win a trophy.
When fans think only of trophies and wins, it become concerning for the health of the game. You can see that throughout the history.
We are Arsenal, I always think the least we all can do is to promote first and above all the quality and the joy of the the game as a leisure and a pleasure as long as we've got the opportunity to play in evevry competition every year grinning smiley
One thing is sure : this team is capable of anything in football: from memorable wins to unthinkable defeats, but ultimatly as I said before this Arsenal will be remembered for the football offered to the joy of the world, no matter how many trophies we win or lose, and beside any kind of vanity and sectarism all things that divide and reduce the whole intelligence down to "THEM and US".
With Arsenal we've got a unique chance to get above this way of dividing the world between the nices and the vilains.
Every time, I am in a place talking about football, what I hear from fans of other clubs and from neutrals, make me really pround of our team and particulary our manager.
The job is not easy. You've got to have real cohones to do what Arsene's achieving over the years.
We didn't win a trophy but our football seems getting better from year to year over the last three years, and that's fine to me.
A times, this year so far, we've played better than any team I've ever seen in my whole life. The world is beginning to take note. Collectivelly our movement and passing is the best you will find in any real football video from 1958 to date in any place at any time in the world : from Brazil of Pelé to Holland (ajax and barcelona).

Re: Victory Makes Arsenal Light Headed? Stakes high
Merlion96 (IP Logged)
24 October, 2008 19:32
Pual, you are a purist.

Fundamentally, there are 2 types of Arsenal fans here.

Those like Padre, Simon, Eduardo, Baz, PK....who grown up with Arsenal, maybe for generations like PAdre when his grandpa brought to a watch with a chilly wind blowing cold enough to freeze his balls literally...

And they are football fans like who love to watch English football, and suddenly sit up and notice the revolution that Arsene Wenger started at Arsenal and suddenly drawn into its circle and remain as supporter of Arsenal.

The privilege of watching Bergy, Overmars,
Vieira-Petit partnership,
the French Spine telepathic understanding,
a young Anelka, a young Reyes,
the pragmatism of "Rope Da Dope" at Cardiff with Bergy in a 4-5-1 formation,
a 17-year old Fabregas at Charity Shield,
the 4-1-4-1 that drove us to CL Final,
Battle of Trafford,
the Unbeaten, et.

SO mnay fond memories,
so many breathe-taking one-touch-one-pass football.
The joy of watching French Spine taking apart teams within the first 20 minutes....scoring goals for fun.
The blind side running of Pires and Freddy..

We are spoilt and that is the benchmark - The French Spine

Like my benchmark of Total Football - Pele's Brazil 1970


What we are seeing is a complete new team, a new concept of total football, no more of DCM or Vieira-Petit partnership.

It is all PACE & MOVEMENT (I think Wenger stole my phrase in a recent interview) with interchangeability, with versatile players playing in any position.

Wenegr stubbornness in playing palyers out of position, sticking Diaby, Walcott, Vela and EBoue out on the flanks is starting to pay dividends as it trained a group of players, comfortable on the flanks, with the ability to cut into centre and yet able to defend the flanks and centre as well.

Many of us forgott hat last season, we got helluva lots of luck in our blinding start which blinded us to our deficits in lack of depth.

Hleb was only good for august/Septmeber, got injured in October and downhill after that.
It is he attacking plays of Fabregas that made Flamini so good with his high-octnane running, and Kolo-gallas was at his peak before ANC.

Chelski self-destruct via Mourinho, Benitez crazy rotation policy and ManLeeds' poor start of the season caused us flying off the a mirage.

But we got found out before X'mas with ManLeeds overtaken us when 9 points behind, and Grant Chelski grinding out wins after wins....and Torres beginning to make an imapct at Anfield.

This season?
Chelski and Liverpool ae flying off the starting block.
ManLeeds as usual is having a poor start.
Arsenal is no worse or better with the points collected now like last season.

And best of all with this group of callowed yougnsters written off by all pundits, a roller coaster performance, euphoria one moment and deep depression the very next.

Taht is why Paul, like you, I love this TEAM so much, their unpredictability, their fearlessness in playing away to any opponents, and the very potential you and I knwo that on their day, their fear no one and can beat anyone.

And still stay true to Arsene Wenger Total Football, winning with breathe-taking football.

Fenerbahce-Arsenal game was staying true to the Beautiful Game, may the best attacking team wins....not the best defensive team wins..Greece 2004.

What Arsene Wenger is doing is using FAbregas as the FULCRUM, and to fulfil Fabregas' Dream of becoming a complete MIDFIELD GENERAL, dominating midfield, attacking midfielder in support of Attack, and defensive steel in breaking up plays.

It si that lack of understanding with Denilson that is the hold back now, compounded by a shaky Kolo-Gallas pairing that is all pace and quickness, but lack leadership, organisation ability and understanding.

Midfield is dependable very much as retaining possession and instant pressure on opponents whenever the balls are lost...where Eboue-Denilson-Fabregas-Walcott will instantly ahrass opponents. And Adebayor needs to track back as much to help out and revert to 2006 where Adebayor covered every blades of grasses on the pitch till an exhuasted adebayor is substituted in the 70th minute.
And with a fit is back to 4-5-1 with Diaby or Nasri in the free-roaming role of Hleb or Rosicky.
And scoring duty is shared now between Forward and Midfield.

But the fault is not Denilson-Fabregas partnership but with a suddenly shaky Kolo-gallas partnership that undermines what Wenger is seeking to develop that Denilson-fabregas partnership still in its embroynic stage.

Think carefully. If we have a soldi Kolo-gallas partnership with a steady Kolo and better leadership and organisation in Gallas, will DenislnFabregas partnership be that bad in covering up for those deficiencies in Kolo-Gallas aprtnerhsip.
Even with Flamini, it is stil abd..and even if we buy yaya Toure, it wil still bad because fundamentally, the defence foundation is simply rotten due to Kolo-Gallas partnership.

Kolo had retrogressed and failed to develp since last season ANC.
Gallas is the wrong choice as Captain and as Leader.,,like Henry. Gallas can never be Arsenal as he is too long at Chelsea and too set in his way. And I look upon him as more and more a liability when the crunch period arrive during Feb-May again.

Gallas' emphasis is too much "winning is everything", to much of Mourinho philosophy instilled in him that he can never udnerstand Arsene Wenger Total Football - to win not at all cost, but to win playing The Beautiful Game.

SOmetimes like after The Hull City game, it is so hard to take and understand "To win playing The Beautiful Game"; but the memory of February 21, 2006 restored one's faith in Arsene Wenegr as whenever in our darkest moment, his TEAM responsed and silenced al critics.

Like Fenerbahce-Arsenal game restord one faith in his continual experimental with The Beautiful Game.

And that is what draw neutral fans and people liek me to Arsenal.
To watch Arsene Wenger Total Football.

And why Fenerbahce fans applauded Arsenal players off the Pompey so many rival fans.

And yet after 3 years of transitions, after watching the rapid maturing of yougnsters, the slowly gelling of all thsoe palyers, with Fabregas still not at his scintillating best, still short of match sharpness and udnerstanding with team-mates, Diaby fit, Walcott coming of age,and plenty of youngsters reayd by is a football feast to come.

The bitterness of last season "so near yet so far" had mentally strengthen those players as they will never like to drink that bitter draught again come May 2009.

And that is why I predicted that they will win the title this season..with style.

Arsenal 32 wns 3 draws 3 losses = 99 points.

And like ManLeeds an Chelski of last season, we are smoothly slipped into another gear and learn to grind out ugly wins this season.
And why after Fulham and Hull City, they are focussed now on winning with complacency kicked out of their collective

And why hungry yougnsters like Ramsey, Vela, Wilshere, Song and Djourou will be ready in December as failure is not an option no more.




This is the TEAM that can defend and attack, with height and finesse in Diaby, interchangeability with the Trio of Denilson-Fabregas-Diaby atacking or defending or slugging it out in midfield- trench-warfare.

The key is the box-to-box running ability of Diaby, the ability of Fabregas to improve his defending skill by Decmeber, and the ability fo Denilson to integrate with Fabregas and Diaby by December.

And not forgetting with quality substitutes like Van Persie, Bendtner, Vela, Eduardo, Rosicky, Sagna, Kolo, Gallas, Song, Ramsey.....

Chelski was 9 points behind us at this stage of the season,
ManLeeds was 6 points behind us
And we have a superior goal difference to both of them..
yet both of them overhauled us.

This season?
We got out Blip out of the way...and time to start a run of 10 consecutive victories to win us the title.

it is not light headedness we got to worry about.
It is whether those yougnsters have enough self-belief in themselves, their team-mates, to banish all self-doubts after FUlham and Hul City and beleived that they are good enough even to rip Liverpol, Chelski andn ManLeeds to shreds on their days.

I don't mind they lose with going down fighting all the way, but I detested the way they shamefully losed their games without a fight like last season with Flamini and Hleb misisng ina citon and gallas being gallas just like henry, nonplussed at all those losses.

Lose by all means, but please die fighting...

Re: Victory Makes Arsenal Light Headed? Stakes high
Paul Alerte (IP Logged)
24 October, 2008 21:30
Great post Merlion
We share the same view meanwhile we fully understand the view of others. I do enjoy Padre' view too, as much as I enjoy yours most of the time in both cases :d. By the time going we've got to know a little more about others'views.
It's great to be talking about the game, wasting time with passion and real implication :d
We need a good defense, and Denilson will be a legend.
For Arsenal and Spain in particular as for himself Cesc needs to strenghen his defensive game. I think from what I've heard from him that that's part of his ambition. Denilson's willgness to take his attacking duties as well as his defensive ones can only help him.
He's the more senior player. Denilson needs time and games but he's ready because he's a precaucious talented player. I don't care about what's said about him at the moment in every media and blog. They don't really watch the game. They listen to it.
I like his mobility, his energy and his hability on the ball. He will be up for it. In my view he's already up for it. He's played more than anyone else in the team we've been enjoying so far this season. What else ?
Don't listen, watch, enjoy before being able to reflect on. It's The Arsenal Of The Game. But the players are the luckiest ones. I would prefer playing as you get more pleasure than watching grinning smiley no matter if you make money or not. I'm not and I've never been a Bentley's fan even when he was dreamed in some quarters to be the successor of the great Denis B. I've never been fan of players who relay on too much long balls because they can't get forward easily while they show too much ambition for their own abilities. From what I hear from him, he lacks also humility off the pitch.
I'm happy and sad for spuds, and if they want to go down to be on TOP on the "championship", that's fine to me, but I would like us to kill off them by giving them the "coup de grace", for their own dignity and our's too, and for the health of the game. A 11-0 to the Arsenal should be enough to forget about this always to become great team. Enough is enough.

Re: Victory Makes Arsenal Light Headed? Stakes high
Bergmars (IP Logged)
24 October, 2008 22:18
If I may interject,we sometimes fail to press high up the pitch.Top forwards help to defend by pressing and not giving defenders time on the ball.This in turn helps the midfielders to have time to funnel and in turn press also.Its fundemental that we defend as a team,a la Chavs and Manure.

A shadow of what we were

Re: Victory Makes Arsenal Light Headed? Stakes high
Optimistic Gunner (IP Logged)
24 October, 2008 22:56
Good post Merlion.

Also the whole defend as a UNIT and attack as a UNIT, boils down to the players attitude which has been poor since the our run to CL final three seasons ago.

Re: Victory Makes Arsenal Light Headed? Stakes high
AJ The Gunner (IP Logged)
25 October, 2008 15:15
I can understand what angle those including me who want another DM are coming's not that we miss flamini.all flamini brought to the game was mobility.with him the tempo of the game was high which made it difficult to beat us.that ability is easy to come by.all the midfield players we have are all alike.none is that ruthless DM that will make a big difference.Song for me is the only one out of all that is close to the type of DM we need but he would not bring that high tempo to our game cos he is slow.i doubt we will see the best of fab for a while cos he is playing with people similar to him.being the most experinced will make him drop deeper then be more attacking.

Re: Victory Makes Arsenal Light Headed? Stakes high
Merlion96 (IP Logged)
25 October, 2008 16:36
AJ, patience, Wenegr is tryign soemthing new, with Diaby fit and Ramsey coming along nicely.

Recalled 2006 Carling Cup FInal at Cardiff where Fabregas-Diaby midfield outplayed Chelski for 60 minutes before Diaby knocked out terry and hsi game went to pieces plus a seriosu ankle injury as well.

it is like taking 2 steps back to advance 3 steps forward.
Like sticking Walcott, Vela, Eboue and Diaby at theh flanks, it is another step in Fabregas' development to ensure he will be a complelte MIDFIELD GENERAL by season end, or earleist and hopefully by December - an atacking mdifielder that can defence and breakup plays with Denilson interchanging position with Fabregas, with Diaby and EBoue or Walcott or NAsri helping ind efensive duties as well as playmaking and attacking.

What Wenegr is trying to build is a UNIT - that attacks together with forwards, and defend together with Back-4.

Pace & Movement plus interchangeability.
That is the ultimate of Arsene Wenger Total Football - a complete UNIT.

Re: Victory Makes Arsenal Light Headed? Stakes high
Gooner_Mike (IP Logged)
25 October, 2008 16:53
Weve got to play with what we got. All i want to see is some real passion from the players through november, as we have to play the likes of fenerbache, man united, chelsea, and villa as well as sp*rs this week so all in all we need consistency and to get behind the players through this period cus it will make or break our season. Come january I think wenger needs to bring in a centre mid aswell as maybe a CB or reacall senderos or its going to be more of the same.

Re: Victory Makes Arsenal Light Headed? Stakes high
Paul Alerte (IP Logged)
25 October, 2008 17:25
Merlion you summed up it all.
movement, pace and interchangeability.
Bringing passion to players through tough periods like november is the main duties of clever fans like the one you can find with Liverpoll's fans. It's down to us to bring this passion to the passion to the team. It's a human thing, and it's a mass thing. Let's ge toghether with passion and enthusisasm and confidance. Let's stop bringing negativenessnes and fear into the team.
Let's do with what we have, and as the fans let's make our passion and confidance spread through the team when needed. The supports is needed mostly needed when things don't go well.

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