I've had enough of him; Poor team selections. poor subs and poor tactics.

He's as pragmatic as Mourinho.

We're going nowhere under Emery. Noi point waiting 3 years, get rid of him!

cool story

None of what you said is actually true so I can’t actually see the logic in this thread

What a fraud.
Arsene Wenger 2017/18 Mark 4.0.

---

'I like the total intensification, where there are crashes and bangs everywhere, pure adrenaline and no one being able to breathe' Jurgen Klopp.

Ppl were sooner or later going to figure out that emery plays Kolasinac as a wide forward who just anyways cuts it back for ppl at the edge of the box.

The reason west ham for so many blocks in vs what happened at Chelsea early in the season is that every knows now emery has instructed players to exit for the cut back and west ham was covering an the players day for cut backs today.

If we played at west ham early in the season, we would have had more clear cut chances and probably scored 3-4.

When you come in with new ideas , ppl take time to figure out how you are playing. Ppl have now figureed out, so it only gets tougher from now on

Nobody was saying that 22 games in lmao fans are supremely fickle

I know there are a lot of injuries but his line ups and substitutions lately have been bad. I also don't understand the point of freezing out Ozil when this team lacks creativity all together. The strikers are isolated and barely touch the ball all game. I still won't blame Emery though. There is not enough quality in this team and the ownership is refusing to invest in the team.

---

Dream acquisitions:

CB: Issa Diop
RB: Aaron Wan-Bissaka
DM: Franck Kessie/Yves Bissouma/Ndidi
Wing/Attack: Anton Rebic/Pepe

Quote:

Big Guhnz
None of what you said is actually true so I can’t actually see the logic in this thread

Err it is!

Pragmatic: Playing 3 CB's and 3 defensive midfielders in a lot of games.

Poor selections: Not picking Ozil who's our only creativite player. Not picking Torriera today and so on, and so on.

Subs: Should have have brought on Nkeitah. Picking the wrong team and then bringing on the players who should have started is not a skill!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/01/2019 14:58 by Gunnersingh1.

Quote:

Big Guhnz
Nobody was saying that 22 games in lmao fans are supremely fickle

Doesn't it proves it is a freak result .. like 5,000 to 1 odd winning the title?

2nd half of the season is where the wheat is separated from the chaff.

On the other hand, just look at ManU during 1st half and was left in the dust, a distance figure on the horizon, in Top-4 race.
Now, where is ManU in the 2nd half of the season?

---

'I like the total intensification, where there are crashes and bangs everywhere, pure adrenaline and no one being able to breathe' Jurgen Klopp.

Dont want him gone but a lot of his decisions have backfired recently and if he ends up with wengerish away record in the second half of the season then come may 2019 it might be a pbm for him.

We havent played the top sides away. City, wolves, spurs, everton, watdord, etc still to come

Winning the Europa League Cup is the only way to save Emery bacon.
No way we can beat Tony Totts in FA Cup 4th Round.
We simply do not have a game changer in our locker now.

Otherwise, the rumbling now will grow into a howl for blood comes May 2019.

---

'I like the total intensification, where there are crashes and bangs everywhere, pure adrenaline and no one being able to breathe' Jurgen Klopp.

[soccersouls.com]

Rumbling starting mow.

---

'I like the total intensification, where there are crashes and bangs everywhere, pure adrenaline and no one being able to breathe' Jurgen Klopp.

Quote:

Merlion96

Quote:

Big Guhnz
Nobody was saying that 22 games in lmao fans are supremely fickle

Doesn't it proves it is a freak result .. like 5,000 to 1 odd winning the title?

2nd half of the season is where the wheat is separated from the chaff.

On the other hand, just look at ManU during 1st half and was left in the dust, a distance figure on the horizon, in Top-4 race.
Now, where is ManU in the 2nd half of the season?

A 22 game freak result?

Our team is s.hit. The problem is the board because the squad needs major investment and they're not willing to put their money where their mouths are (you know like they promised they would when we were sold the Emirates will put us level with the worlds elite lie).

What is a new manager going to do on a budget of .... loan players?

Not a great deal more than Emery I'd guess.

---

Albert Einstein once said: "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

Crazy thread

Quote:

SandyB
Crazy thread

Sorry GS. From my two favourite posters on here i choose a brazilian... and ar.se shaving.

Let's look at it this way; it isn't like Emery inherited a title winning side, is it? He inherited a side that had twice finished outside of the top four and were absolutely useless away from home last season. While Wenger was lucky enough to inherit one of our best ever defences, Emery has inherited what is probably one of our worst. He's inherited a side that had been gradually declining under the reign of Wenger and Gazidis, an aging side littered with players not good enough and earning well beyond their ability. It's difficult enough replacing a manager who had been in charge of A GOOD side for over 20 years, just look at United post-Ferguson, let alone a manager who had been in charge of a poor one.

So we've got Arsenal, the 6th best side in England, both in terms of last season's league position and, in my opinion, compared man-to-man to the five sides that finished above us. In the summer we spent around £70 million, the same amount Liverpool spent on a single defender last winter and slightly less than Chelsea spent on one goalkeeper in the summer. We've added four senior players (Lichtsteiner, Leno, Sokratis and Torreira. Forget Guendouzi for now), and I think its fair to say that freebie Lichtsteiner aside, they're all improvements on what was already here. Would any of you have said we only needed to improve three positions last season? Of course not.

The 22 game unbeaten run was a nice surprise but the stats showed we were performing way above our xG and it was going to catch up with us eventually. Less vaguely, though, as that run began to fall apart we lost Holding and Welbeck, and have been without the likes of Bellerin, Mustafi, Kolasinac and Monreal for extended periods, forcing us to rush Koscielny back from a long term injury and plug gaps with players like Xhaka, Lichtsteiner and Maitland-Niles out of position. We've also lost that intense high press and physicality that was giving us an edge, as evidenced by Torreira, star of our unbeaten run, looking spent and an absolute shadow of former self.

On top of all of this we've had ongoing issues with two of our best attacking players, Ramsey and Ozil, and we reach the January transfer window and find out we can't bring any players in permanently.

Emery was never my first choice to replace Wenger because, to be perfectly honest, I didn't know a great deal about him, but I think now isn't the time to be over the top and reactionary, it is the time to be realistic.

1) Realistically, no better manager was ever going to come to a club who are so tight financially. It was either a manager of Emery's level or some sort of unknown quantity like Arteta.
2) Realistically, we were always going to go through rough times following Wenger's 22 year reign. I 100% expected this regardless of who took over, and after how bad last season was this season has actually been better than I expected.
3) Realistically, we were never going to overtake our rivals by only improving three positions with relatively cheap signings. We're a long way off and a lot of work needs to be done.

I think we're all intelligent, mature and rational people. We knew it was going to be like this. We've undergone big changes behind the scenes that, in theory, will lead to big changes on the pitch.

Quote:

MattySadler
Let's look at it this way; it isn't like Emery inherited a title winning side, is it? He inherited a side that had twice finished outside of the top four and were absolutely useless away from home last season. While Wenger was lucky enough to inherit one of our best ever defences, Emery has inherited what is probably one of our worst. He's inherited a side that had been gradually declining under the reign of Wenger and Gazidis, an aging side littered with players not good enough and earning well beyond their ability. It's difficult enough replacing a manager who had been in charge of A GOOD side for over 20 years, just look at United post-Ferguson, let alone a manager who had been in charge of a poor one.
So we've got Arsenal, the 6th best side in England, both in terms of last season's league position and, in my opinion, compared man-to-man to the five sides that finished above us. In the summer we spent around £70 million, the same amount Liverpool spent on a single defender last winter and slightly less than Chelsea spent on one goalkeeper in the summer. We've added four senior players (Lichtsteiner, Leno, Sokratis and Torreira. Forget Guendouzi for now), and I think its fair to say that freebie Lichtsteiner aside, they're all improvements on what was already here. Would any of you have said we only needed to improve three positions last season? Of course not.

The 22 game unbeaten run was a nice surprise but the stats showed we were performing way above our xG and it was going to catch up with us eventually. Less vaguely, though, as that run began to fall apart we lost Holding and Welbeck, and have been without the likes of Bellerin, Mustafi, Kolasinac and Monreal for extended periods, forcing us to rush Koscielny back from a long term injury and plug gaps with players like Xhaka, Lichtsteiner and Maitland-Niles out of position. We've also lost that intense high press and physicality that was giving us an edge, as evidenced by Torreira, star of our unbeaten run, looking spent and an absolute shadow of former self.

On top of all of this we've had ongoing issues with two of our best attacking players, Ramsey and Ozil, and we reach the January transfer window and find out we can't bring any players in permanently.

Emery was never my first choice to replace Wenger because, to be perfectly honest, I didn't know a great deal about him, but I think now isn't the time to be over the top and reactionary, it is the time to be realistic.

1) Realistically, no better manager was ever going to come to a club who are so tight financially. It was either a manager of Emery's level or some sort of unknown quantity like Arteta.
2) Realistically, we were always going to go through rough times following Wenger's 22 year reign. I 100% expected this regardless of who took over, and after how bad last season was this season has actually been better than I expected.
3) Realistically, we were never going to overtake our rivals by only improving three positions with relatively cheap signings. We're a long way off and a lot of work needs to be done.

I think we're all intelligent, mature and rational people. We knew it was going to be like this. We've undergone big changes behind the scenes that, in theory, will lead to big changes on the pitch.

Good post. My hope seems to have gone though.

Emery lost a few games unlike Moyes who lost the dressing room. He gets more time to fix the team inherited from Wenger unlike Moyes who was imo rightly sacked. Emery has won at a high level. Multiple times. Moyes was a deer in the headlight at a super big club. Emery has managed prima donnas before and have the experience to deal with top underperforming talents like Ozil and Aibameyang. Not Moyes. Hence too early to let Emery go..I say he needs 3 seasons to turn things around. Bigger issue imo for Arsenal is Silent Stan not Emery.

Quote:

goonerred
Good post. My hope seems to have gone though.

Thanks mate. I don't have much hope for this season anymore either. Our only hope is pulling something out of the bag in the Europa League and we don't have the squad to do it.

I wasn't as clued up to our financial situation as I needed to be to be honest. I thought we'd get to January and maybe improve one or two positions in our XI like we did with Leno, Sokratis and Torreira. Ideally another defender and a pacy winger with end product. Unfortunately our money situation will not allow that, permanently at least.

Quote:

mapleleafgooner
Emery lost a few games unlike Moyes who lost the dressing room. He gets more time to fix the team inherited from Wenger unlike Moyes who was imo rightly sacked. Emery has won at a high level. Multiple times. Moyes was a deer in the headlight at a super big club. Emery has managed prima donnas before and have the experience to deal with top underperforming talents like Ozil and Aibameyang. Not Moyes. Hence too early to let Emery go..I say he needs 3 seasons to turn things around. Bigger issue imo for Arsenal is Silent Stan not Emery.

Good point. Big difference between Emery and Moyes. Patience isn't rife in football though. Reckon he'll get 3 seasons?

This is Arsenal a big club. Emery is not good enough and has no idea what he's doing.

Emery couod have said get rid of the deadwood in the summer to free up some funds. We've got plenty of them.

Does anyone know what kind of football philosophy Emery is trying to install? I don't!

Tactics: People who say he's trying to play a pressing game; So why is their such a big distance between our attack and midfield? Why are we defending so deep now? If you want to play a pressing game you defend high and don't have huge gaps in between the lines.

on to his team selection: I was saying he's picking the wrong team even when we went on the run. We were getting away with it cos we playing poor sides in the main. The players who should have been starting come on and made the difference. I'm not going to praise Emery for that.

Style of play: Emery picks 3 defensive midfielders at home against average sides. That tells you everthing about how pragmatic he is.

Ozil and Ramsey: How he's treated Ozil is a disgrace. Ozil is the only creative player we've got and has to start. Ozil runs as much as most of the current players. Just because the media tells you he doesn't it doesn't make it true.

Ramsey: When Emery come in we were told he wants to build his squad around him. Emery basically thought Ramsey was a player who could sit deep and dicate the game.

I also don't like the fact that Emery has told the world we can only bring in loan players. I think Emery is trying to cover his back.

We need to make a decision at the end of the season. Next season we can't be bringing in over the hill players like Banega.

Wr've got a s hit owner who doesn't care as long as his pockets get deeper but it still doesn't mean we can't see improvements on the pitch which we're not.

Quote:

Gunnersingh1
This is Arsenal a big club. Emery is not good enough and has no idea what he's doing.
Emery couod have said get rid of the deadwood in the summer to free up some funds. We've got plenty of them.

Does anyone know what kind of football philosophy Emery is trying to install? I don't!

Tactics: People who say he's trying to play a pressing game; So why is their such a big distance between our attack and midfield? Why are we defending so deep now? If you want to play a pressing game you defend high and don't have huge gaps in between the lines.

on to his team selection: I was saying he's picking the wrong team even when we went on the run. We were getting away with it cos we playing poor sides in the main. The players who should have been starting come on and made the difference. I'm not going to praise Emery for that.

Style of play: Emery picks 3 defensive midfielders at home against average sides. That tells you everthing about how pragmatic he is.

Ozil and Ramsey: How he's treated Ozil is a disgrace. Ozil is the only creative player we've got and has to start. Ozil runs as much as most of the current players. Just because the media tells you he doesn't it doesn't make it true.

Ramsey: When Emery come in we were told he wants to build his squad around him. Emery basically thought Ramsey was a player who could sit deep and dicate the game.

I also don't like the fact that Emery has told the world we can only bring in loan players. I think Emery is trying to cover his back.

We need to make a decision at the end of the season. Next season we can't be bringing in over the hill players like Banega.

Wr've got a s hit owner who doesn't care as long as his pockets get deeper but it still doesn't mean we can't see improvements on the pitch which we're not.

I'd imagine Emery is having to utilise a number of players he doesn't want, or deems "deadwood". Is it as simple as just saying "get rid of deadwood to free up funds"? We have accepted bids for the likes of Jenkinson and Elneny in recent times and both have refused to leave. You would've thought if either of them had any real ambition they would've gone somewhere and played regularly, but they haven't. Jenkinson wants to play for his boyhood club and Elneny apparently enjoys living in London. They're under contract and if they don't want to go we're snookered.

Surely you can at least see a difference in what we were doing then and what we were doing now? Injuries and exhaustion. Example, losing Holding has been a blow both in terms of our playing out from the back (which was a frequent talking point earlier in the season) and the cover he offered that left side. Who else was performing well during the run? Our squad lacks pacy attackers so Monreal/ Kolasinac and Bellerin were our flying attacking threats. All three have had notable spells out injured. Who came in to replace them? Well, for one, Lichtsteiner. Never mind his horrible decision making, he can barely move, especially compared to Bellerin. Look at Torriera, not only did we break up an effective Xhaka-Torreira pivot, but Torreira himself looks physically jaded and has lost that explosive dynamism. He hasn't looked the same player since the Spurs win. Earlier this season we were topping league stats for distance covered and sprints per 90. I haven't got the stats to hand but I'd bet we aren't topping them now. I recall Spurs and Liverpool going through similar spells during the earlier stages of Pochettino and Klopp's respective reigns as they tried to instill a greater physical intensity. That was always going to catch up with us during our first season.

With regards to Ozil, Shane made the point in another thread that Wenger coddled him for years and where did that get us? We had plenty of games under Wenger where he went missing, and plenty of those weird instances where he has been unavailable for vague reasons. We're in a lose-lose situation with Ozil. You play him and get some quality moments among a lot of nothingness, or you don't play him, lose those moments of quality and rely on inferior players like Mkhitaryan and Iwobi. I'm sick of it as well because I know that £350k p/w could be used on 2 or 3 good attacking players. I really hope it is resolved next summer.

Genuinely I don't understand where you get the "Emery basically thought Ramsey was a player who could sit deep and dicate the game", because when Ramsey has started this season, even in the earlier games, he's either had a Xhaka-Guendouzi or Xhaka-Torreira pivot behind him.

Quote: because when Ramsey has started this season, even in the earlier games, he's either had a Xhaka-Guendouzi or Xhaka-Torreira pivot behind him.

I agree, and at times he was the playere farthest forward, which in my opinion was a flop but that is where he was.

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- until Wenger moves on, they'll always be the also-rans in the major competitions. A club in elite purgatory. Always good enough to make it to the big race, never fast or smart enough to push over the finish line in first place. That's all about the manager. Until he changes, Arsenal fans will continue to celebrate glorious failure.

Throwback to this thread which I think gave a true indication of all of our thoughts on the tools Emery currently has at his disposal. Genuinely none of us named more than a handful of players who we'd want to keep beyond this season as part of our bigger, longer-term project.

My bigger concern with Emery is that, although I have admitted I don't know a great deal about his work, what I do know is that he doesn't have a track record of managing teams that are strong defensively. Although I personally prefer an exciting, fast paced counter attacking style of football with high pressing (like Liverpool and Spurs now), after the embarrassing drivel Wenger put out on a weekly basis I absolutely want to see a stronger defensive unit. Although, I am aware he is still having to use players like Mustafi, Koscielny, Monreal, Kolasinac, Bellerin, Xhaka, etc, who were part of that bad defence under Wenger, I'm just not confident he has it in him to make us strong defensively.

Quote:

Padre Pio
Quote: because when Ramsey has started this season, even in the earlier games, he's either had a Xhaka-Guendouzi or Xhaka-Torreira pivot behind him.
I agree, and at times he was the playere farthest forward, which in my opinion was a flop but that is where he was.

I won't argue with that mate. That's probably a part of why he is sat on the bench now, after from his impending departure, obviously.

I just can't recall Emery trying to use him "sitting deep and dictating". I'm sure Emery saw Ramsey at Euro 2016, where he was one of the best players, and had more of a free reign with a Ledley-Allen pivot behind him.

Quote:

MattySadler
Throwback to this thread which I think gave a true indication of all of our thoughts on the tools Emery currently has at his disposal. Genuinely none of us named more than a handful of players who we'd want to keep beyond this season as part of our bigger, longer-term project.
My bigger concern with Emery is that, although I have admitted I don't know a great deal about his work, what I do know is that he doesn't have a track record of managing teams that are strong defensively. Although I personally prefer an exciting, fast paced counter attacking style of football with high pressing (like Liverpool and Spurs now), after the embarrassing drivel Wenger put out on a weekly basis I absolutely want to see a stronger defensive unit. Although, I am aware he is still having to use players like Mustafi, Koscielny, Monreal, Kolasinac, Bellerin, Xhaka, etc, who were part of that bad defence under Wenger, I'm just not confident he has it in him to make us strong defensively.

Quote:

Padre Pio
Quote: because when Ramsey has started this season, even in the earlier games, he's either had a Xhaka-Guendouzi or Xhaka-Torreira pivot behind him.
I agree, and at times he was the playere farthest forward, which in my opinion was a flop but that is where he was.

I won't argue with that mate. That's probably a part of why he is sat on the bench now, after from his impending departure, obviously.

I just can't recall Emery trying to use him "sitting deep and dictating". I'm sure Emery saw Ramsey at Euro 2016, where he was one of the best players, and had more of a free reign with a Ledley-Allen pivot behind him.

At the risk of sounding hypocritical, because I wasn't saying this when Wenger was in charge...

At the big clubs, I'm not sure how much impact the coach has on the defence beyond identifying the right players. At a big club you are expecting to control the game, dominate possession and win. Therefore you have to focus on possession and scoring on the training ground.

At a small club you can get away with playing for a draw by defending well. So being a good defensive coach is more important. That's why people like allardyce and moyes can be successful at small clubs but fail at big clubs and also why arguments like "Burnley can defend properly so why can't we" are missing the point. Burnley can defend properly because they aren't expected to go and win the game so they are happy to defend with 11 players and that's what they work on all week. If big clubs do that, you end up with a situation like mourinho, moyes or van gaal at utd... Now solskaer is focusing on attack and leaving them now open at the back and the defenders and keeper just have to play well without making mistakes. We don't have players who are good enough to do that.

Would we be happy for emery to put 11 players behind the ball and defend our box for 90 minutes against West ham? Would our players be happy with that approach, especially if big names attackers like aubameyang?

What has been responsible for Liverpool suddenly having a great defence? Is it klopps coaching or is it the addition of van dijk and Allison?

We weren't worrying about Wenger being a bad defensive coach when we had toure and Campbell with gilberto and Vieira in front of them. I think at the big clubs who are expected to go and win every game, the emphasis for the coaches has to be what to do in possession and they need to have defenders who know how to defend without too much coaching.

How can you coach Mustafi to make better decisions and stop diving into every challenge? Or Xhaka to stop giving it to their players in front of our goal every game?

Basically I think Wengers biggest failing was in recruitment. Now that isn't even emery's job.

Quote:

SuperRob
At the risk of sounding hypocritical, because I wasn't saying this when Wenger was in charge...
At the big clubs, I'm not sure how much impact the coach has on the defence beyond identifying the right players. At a big club you are expecting to control the game, dominate possession and win. Therefore you have to focus on possession and scoring on the training ground.

At a small club you can get away with playing for a draw by defending well. So being a good defensive coach is more important. That's why people like allardyce and moyes can be successful at small clubs but fail at big clubs and also why arguments like "Burnley can defend properly so why can't we" are missing the point. Burnley can defend properly because they aren't expected to go and win the game so they are happy to defend with 11 players and that's what they work on all week. If big clubs do that, you end up with a situation like mourinho, moyes or van gaal at utd... Now solskaer is focusing on attack and leaving them now open at the back and the defenders and keeper just have to play well without making mistakes. We don't have players who are good enough to do that.

Would we be happy for emery to put 11 players behind the ball and defend our box for 90 minutes against West ham? Would our players be happy with that approach, especially if big names attackers like aubameyang?

What has been responsible for Liverpool suddenly having a great defence? Is it klopps coaching or is it the addition of van dijk and Allison?

We weren't worrying about Wenger being a bad defensive coach when we had toure and Campbell with gilberto and Vieira in front of them. I think at the big clubs who are expected to go and win every game, the emphasis for the coaches has to be what to do in possession and they need to have defenders who know how to defend without too much coaching.

How can you coach Mustafi to make better decisions and stop diving into every challenge? Or Xhaka to stop giving it to their players in front of our goal every game?

Basically I think Wengers biggest failing was in recruitment. Now that isn't even emery's job.

Yeah that's a fair point mate. I was just looking at Emery with Sevilla/ PSG. Maybe I am giving the manager's impact on a defence too much credit.

Liverpool is a great example. They've spent £70-odd million on van Dijk, one of the best defenders in the world, and look infinitely better. Likewise, Karius and Mignolet were both calamities and spending over £50 million on a goalkeeper has seen a massive improvement.

Mustafi and Xhaka have looked better at times this season, but both are part of "the old regime". For all we know, Raul/ Sven/ Emery might not view them as part of our bigger project.

Matty, obviously we weren't going to get rid of all the so called deadwood but apprently Emery knew every player before he joined. Even watching from afar you know the players who are not good enough, but Emery choose to give everyone a chance which i think was a mistake.

As for Ramsey Emery has never played with a number 8 which suggest to me he thought he was getting a player who can dictate. That's is if the reports about building a side around him are true.

Injures shouldn't change your style of play. I don't see what style of play Emery is tryimg to implement.

Obviouely our owner is a idiot but that can't cover up what we're seeing on the pitch.

We're playing some of the worst football i've ever seen.

Quote:

SuperRob
Basically I think Wengers biggest failing was in recruitment. Now that isn't even emery's job.

If that's the case, which it is, then a lack of recruitment doesn't excuse him. I cover a lot of Leeds in work and Bielsa has the same title as Emery - head coach.

Some of you will know about how good Leeds are this season but let me put into perspective. He is probably going to win the Championship with the same group of players that finished 13th last season. Twelve outfield players appeared in their last win and only one - Jack Harrison, on loan from Manchester City - was a summer signing. Patrick Bamford, their biggest signing of last summer, has played 29 minutes since August.

In other words, Bielsa has coached the Leeds lads that he inherited and made them much better as a collective unit and if Emery has the same job then I don't see why we're talking about recruitment and a lack of finances. Why aren't we talking about how virtually none of Wenger's players have improved under Emery, considering that's literally his mandate?

I appreciate Arsenal are operating at a much higher level than Leeds United but if we're judging Emery as a head coach then he isn't doing a very good job based on what his primary remit is.

I don't share GS's views that he should be sacked but our defensive record hasn't been worse at this stage of the seasons since 1977 or something stupid so let's be frank.

Quote:

Shane

Quote:

SuperRob
Basically I think Wengers biggest failing was in recruitment. Now that isn't even emery's job.

If that's the case, which it is, then a lack of recruitment doesn't excuse him. I cover a lot of Leeds in work and Bielsa has the same title as Emery - head coach.

Some of you will know about how good Leeds are this season but let me put into perspective. He is probably going to win the Championship with the same group of players that finished 13th last season. Twelve outfield players appeared in their last win and only one - Jack Harrison, on loan from Manchester City - was a summer signing. Patrick Bamford, their biggest signing of last summer, has played 29 minutes since August.

In other words, Bielsa has coached the Leeds lads that he inherited and made them much better as a collective unit and if Emery has the same job then I don't see why we're talking about recruitment and a lack of finances. Why aren't we talking about how virtually none of Wenger's players have improved under Emery, considering that's literally his mandate?

I appreciate Arsenal are operating at a much higher level than Leeds United but if we're judging Emery as a head coach then he isn't doing a very good job based on what his primary remit is.

I don't share GS's views that he should be sacked but our defensive record hasn't been worse at this stage of the seasons since 1977 or something stupid so let's be frank.

Good post

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Under new managment

When we played Aubameyang as the lone striker in first of the season ..

And we play Auba-Laca partnership in 2nd half of season.

Emery panicked and has no guts to play Auba as the lone striker that was so successful, meaning he had more touches of the ball, more chances to run and shoot at goal.

With Laca starting, Auba hardly seen the ball at the flank, forever chasing and tracking back trying to win the ball.

ANybody got stats as to how many touches AUba had recently?

---

'I like the total intensification, where there are crashes and bangs everywhere, pure adrenaline and no one being able to breathe' Jurgen Klopp.

@GS plenty of videos on youtube with current examples if u don't want to analyze yourself explaining emerys high pressing tactics.

Nouman is a good starting point. Like you say, he does compress the pitch, we have done it multiple times this season and the gap between the lines has been less of a pbm than wenger years,. But the players keep losing shape, less regularly than wenger last few years, but still do.

Most of our players have the footballing intelligence of theo walcott when he was 18

Quote:

Gunnersingh1
Matty, obviously we weren't going to get rid of all the so called deadwood but apprently Emery knew every player before he joined. Even watching from afar you know the players who are not good enough, but Emery choose to give everyone a chance which i think was a mistake.
As for Ramsey Emery has never played with a number 8 which suggest to me he thought he was getting a player who can dictate. That's is if the reports about building a side around him are true.

Injures shouldn't change your style of play. I don't see what style of play Emery is tryimg to implement.

Obviouely our owner is a idiot but that can't cover up what we're seeing on the pitch.

We're playing some of the worst football i've ever seen.

You literally said "Emery couod have said get rid of the deadwood in the summer to free up some funds. We've got plenty of them." Maybe Emery did say it, but you can only get rid of players who are wanted by other clubs, or who are willing to go. All of our "attractive" players either went during previous windows (Oxlade-Chamberlain, Alexis, Giroud and Walcott) or aren't players we'd necessarily want to get rid of (Ozil). This isn't FIFA or Football Manager. Wouldn't surprise me at all if we were open to bids for Mustafi, Jenkinson, Elneny, etc, but it also wouldn't surprise me if nobody wanted them.

I don't doubt Ramsey wanted to base the team around Ramsey, but when he has used him he's always used him further forward. This "sitting back and dictating" thing is just embellishment.

I completely agree injuries shouldn't change style of play. In a scenario where a manager has actually built his squad, you'd lose a player injured and have a reserve ready to come in and play the same way. That hasn't been the case for us, though. Losing Holding has been massive. We lost Holding and had to put Xhaka in, and later an injured Koscielny. We don't have anyone else in the squad, or even the youth team for that matter, who can do what Monreal/ Kolasinac can do. Instead we had Maitland-Niles/ Lichtsteiner, both of whom are right footed and can't offer that left footed width. We lost Bellerin and had to use Lichtsteiner, who doesn't have his mobility. Breaking up the Xhaka-Torreira pivot to play Xhaka at LB/ CB, with a Guendouzi-Torreira pivot has been a problem as well.

The football isn't great at the moment and hasn't always been great this season, but at times it has. Admittedly not that often, but we definitely played some good stuff at the end of September/ start of October. We destroyed Fulham playing some champagne stuff and then there was the "Ozil show" when we did the same to Leicester after we took off Lichtsteiner.

I just don't think calling for the head of somebody 6 months into replacing somebody who had a 22 year crack at it is fair when you look at all the extenuating factors, personally.

Quote:

Merlion96
When we played Aubameyang as the lone striker in first of the season ..
And we play Auba-Laca partnership in 2nd half of season.

Emery panicked and has no guts to play Auba as the lone striker that was so successful, meaning he had more touches of the ball, more chances to run and shoot at goal.

With Laca starting, Auba hardly seen the ball at the flank, forever chasing and tracking back trying to win the ball.

ANybody got stats as to how many touches AUba had recently?

Except that Auba missed two glorious chances within about five minutes on Saturday. One, he was clean through and blazed over. Lacazette also had a mazy run in the first half and did similar.

We created the chances but didn't take them.


I've said all along that I don't think it was worth getting rid of Wenger for more of the same. I wanted change and by change I mean revolution. I don't think Emery is ever going to be that.

that said, I think Emery has also shown signs of improvement. I'm interested in seeing who he wants to bring in but do agree with Shane, the signs on player development aren't great.,

Quote:

younghansolo

Quote:

Merlion96
When we played Aubameyang as the lone striker in first of the season ..
And we play Auba-Laca partnership in 2nd half of season.

Emery panicked and has no guts to play Auba as the lone striker that was so successful, meaning he had more touches of the ball, more chances to run and shoot at goal.

With Laca starting, Auba hardly seen the ball at the flank, forever chasing and tracking back trying to win the ball.

ANybody got stats as to how many touches AUba had recently?

Except that Auba missed two glorious chances within about five minutes on Saturday. One, he was clean through and blazed over. Lacazette also had a mazy run in the first half and did similar.

We created the chances but didn't take them.


I've said all along that I don't think it was worth getting rid of Wenger for more of the same. I wanted change and by change I mean revolution. I don't think Emery is ever going to be that.

that said, I think Emery has also shown signs of improvement. I'm interested in seeing who he wants to bring in but do agree with Shane, the signs on player development aren't great.,

Aubu missed a few chances in another match previously too. He'll cme good, but when, will it be too late?

All strikers miss chances. Scoring 1 in 4 chances is a decent return, 1 in 3 is very good.

The point is not how good are our striker conversion rate, but how many clear shooting chances they will have peer game?

Shouldn't we expect Auba or Laca to have at least 5 to 10+ shots at goal per game?

---

'I like the total intensification, where there are crashes and bangs everywhere, pure adrenaline and no one being able to breathe' Jurgen Klopp.

Quote:

Merlion96
The point is not how good are our striker conversion rate, but how many clear shooting chances they will have peer game?
Shouldn't we expect Auba or Laca to have at least 5 to 10+ shots at goal per game?

Yeah i was agreeing with you.

Quote:

SuperRob

Quote:

Merlion96
The point is not how good are our striker conversion rate, but how many clear shooting chances they will have peer game?
Shouldn't we expect Auba or Laca to have at least 5 to 10+ shots at goal per game?

Yeah i was agreeing with you.

Aubameyang is like theo Walcott when playing upfront on his own. He has zero intelligence when it comes to retaining balls in the verbal areas, his strength is good shooting (shooting, not composure cashier he can miss easy chances as well). If you just look at the highlights, Lacazette has made a lot of goals for Aubameyang through his movement and passes. Same goes for ramsey and ozil. Aubameyang himself mostly looses possesion and cannot receive it in central and turn and play others through/play lay offs. Lacazette is an absolute monster at that, esp with Torreira who invariably plays it into Lacazette, bypassing the first one of the opposing defense.

I personally like Aubameyang wide left, ozil wide right and Lacazette central. Lacazette is the false 9/nos 10 that has been the link in almost all of our goals this season. Other would be ramsey

Quote:

CazOnARola
I personally like Aubameyang wide left, ozil wide right and Lacazette central. Lacazette is the false 9/nos 10 that has been the link in almost all of our goals this season. Other would be ramsey

Agreed mate plus Ozil/ Bellerin link up really well and Aubameyang has shown plenty of times this season he's willing to track back and help Kolasinac when he's been on the left.

Auba is not a winger. He can't dribble for a start. Auba is lethal upfront and is not even half the player on the wing.

If don't play 2 upfront then Laca has to be benched. Laca has been poor this season.

Quote:

Gunnersingh1
Auba is not a winger. He can't dribble for a start. Auba is lethal upfront and is not even half the player on the wing.
If don't play 2 upfront then Laca has to be benched. Laca has been poor this season.

Agree with all of this except the last sentence

The sad case for Unai Emery is not a matter of us losing games.

But the anger directed at him is the way we lost those games with a team in disarray and simply clueless as to what kind of tactics he instilled in his players, in his team.

---

'I like the total intensification, where there are crashes and bangs everywhere, pure adrenaline and no one being able to breathe' Jurgen Klopp.

Quote:

Gunnersingh1
Auba is not a winger. He can't dribble for a start. Auba is lethal upfront and is not even half the player on the wing.
If don't play 2 upfront then Laca has to be benched. Laca has been poor this season.

Mate just look at all the goals we scored this season from the start and see who starts most of our moves or plays a vital role in it. You will find torreira to lacazette story a repeating theme.

And i agree Aubameyang is not a winger, but his gold up play is similarly theo when played centrally. That guest the team when we are under pressure and getting to play to feet.

If you want to watch, search for Aubameyang vs real Madrid and you will realize how kind he is as a lone forward through the middle.

He needs Lacazette along side him. If we want to create stuff like we did in nov, we need Lacazette ozil Torreira in the same team

Laca is better in build up play but when we have Auba upfront that gives our midfield more space.

I don't know why Emery hasn't tried Laca as a 10 or even as a wide forward.

We need to find a way of gettung the best out of both them and clearly Auba on the wing isn't the answer.

Quote:

Gunnersingh1
Laca is better in build up play but when we have Auba upfront that gives our midfield more space.
I don't know why Emery hasn't tried Laca as a 10 or even as a wide forward.

We need to find a way of gettung the best out of both them and clearly Auba on the wing isn't the answer.

Lacazette is our 10 (false 9) he comes deep like messi and links up which should in theory create spaces for Aubameyang to run into. Don't get me wrong Aubameyang is good, but he is not very far ahead of theo, didn't really have Imaginative bendy runs like aguero or van persie.

To add to this we don't have midfielders who can find him barring Torreira. We refuse to play ozil. I think xhaka is decent with that ball over the top and had actually played Aubameyang in a few times, only for auba to mis control, have his shot smothered.

This is also something emery hasn't explored as much. He seems more focused on creating over loads on the left with iwobi /Kolasinac. That is our primary weapon at the moment.

I think Xhaka has a tremendous crossing ability as well (look at draw against Wolves, i think xhals was moved to left back), we don't use that at the end of games when we are chasing. Emery doesn't seem to like crossing to the back post line fergie did

Get Emery out now, I've seen enough.

At least we knew what Wenger was trying to do, with Emery I haven't got a clue ffs.

No pride in the shirt from the majority of players who need to @#$%& off!!

Quote:

BootyDaddy
Our team is s.hit. The problem is the board because the squad needs major investment and they're not willing to put their money where their mouths are (you know like they promised they would when we were sold the Emirates will put us level with the worlds elite lie).
What is a new manager going to do on a budget of .... loan players?

Not a great deal more than Emery I'd guess.

Just shut up. You wanted Wenger to perform magic, since when did you notice that the manager was on a budget of "loan players"?

---

"A club is a union between players, supporters and directors". - Wenger.
Arsene wenger has done an absolutely masterful job within the constraints he has... Every single year, he has outperformed our spending every single year he has been manager. It is extraordinary. -Gazides.

Quote:

MattySadler
Let's look at it this way; it isn't like Emery inherited a title winning side, is it? He inherited a side that had twice finished outside of the top four and were absolutely useless away from home last season. While Wenger was lucky enough to inherit one of our best ever defences, Emery has inherited what is probably one of our worst. He's inherited a side that had been gradually declining under the reign of Wenger and Gazidis, an aging side littered with players not good enough and earning well beyond their ability. It's difficult enough replacing a manager who had been in charge of A GOOD side for over 20 years, just look at United post-Ferguson, let alone a manager who had been in charge of a poor one.
So we've got Arsenal, the 6th best side in England, both in terms of last season's league position and, in my opinion, compared man-to-man to the five sides that finished above us. In the summer we spent around £70 million, the same amount Liverpool spent on a single defender last winter and slightly less than Chelsea spent on one goalkeeper in the summer. We've added four senior players (Lichtsteiner, Leno, Sokratis and Torreira. Forget Guendouzi for now), and I think its fair to say that freebie Lichtsteiner aside, they're all improvements on what was already here. Would any of you have said we only needed to improve three positions last season? Of course not.

The 22 game unbeaten run was a nice surprise but the stats showed we were performing way above our xG and it was going to catch up with us eventually. Less vaguely, though, as that run began to fall apart we lost Holding and Welbeck, and have been without the likes of Bellerin, Mustafi, Kolasinac and Monreal for extended periods, forcing us to rush Koscielny back from a long term injury and plug gaps with players like Xhaka, Lichtsteiner and Maitland-Niles out of position. We've also lost that intense high press and physicality that was giving us an edge, as evidenced by Torreira, star of our unbeaten run, looking spent and an absolute shadow of former self.

On top of all of this we've had ongoing issues with two of our best attacking players, Ramsey and Ozil, and we reach the January transfer window and find out we can't bring any players in permanently.

Emery was never my first choice to replace Wenger because, to be perfectly honest, I didn't know a great deal about him, but I think now isn't the time to be over the top and reactionary, it is the time to be realistic.

1) Realistically, no better manager was ever going to come to a club who are so tight financially. It was either a manager of Emery's level or some sort of unknown quantity like Arteta.
2) Realistically, we were always going to go through rough times following Wenger's 22 year reign. I 100% expected this regardless of who took over, and after how bad last season was this season has actually been better than I expected.
3) Realistically, we were never going to overtake our rivals by only improving three positions with relatively cheap signings. We're a long way off and a lot of work needs to be done.

I think we're all intelligent, mature and rational people. We knew it was going to be like this. We've undergone big changes behind the scenes that, in theory, will lead to big changes on the pitch.

It would seem that since I'd been out of here, a lot of you now take pleasure half-truths, or, more appropriately, cheap lies, in a stupid and annoying attempt to rewrite history? Christ Lawd!


Yes, he didn't inherit a title winning side, and he inherited a side that has finished outside the top four for 2 years. He inherited a side that had a poor away record in the one season before he inherited that side. But does that tell the whole story? No!
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Emery inherited a side that has finished outside the top 4 only two times in about 22 years. That is another fact for you to think about. He inherited one of the best attacks anywhere in English football. He inherited a side that won three FA cups in 5 seasons (actually 4 seasons).
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Today, we're no longer in that FA Cup. Today, our points haul at this stage of the season is worse off than we were last season. This is so even with the addition of nearly about 8 first team players.
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What was Emery's answer to the defence he inherited? He he brought one decent centreback, and a goalkeeper he couldn't trust to start until recently. He bought a 34 year old washout rightback (People would've slaughtered Wenger for something like this, yet Wenger only did this in those days when he used to enter a transfer window with a 15 million pounds deficit). He inherited one of the best midfields in the league and succeeded in alienating two of them.

Before Wenger left he'd started spending money on the likes of Auba, Laca, Xhaka, Mikhitaryan, etc. Now we've descented to the likes of Liechtensteiner, Guendozi, and, from the looks of yesterday, Denis Saurez. I'm sorry but I trusted Wenger's vision. Now we're so boring to watch our football is more of a sleeping pill.
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And one last thing, Emery inherited a better team than Ferguson bequeathed his successor. While Ferguson left an aging team with nothing to prove and no fire left in them, Wenger left a younger team with so much room to improve.

---

"A club is a union between players, supporters and directors". - Wenger.
Arsene wenger has done an absolutely masterful job within the constraints he has... Every single year, he has outperformed our spending every single year he has been manager. It is extraordinary. -Gazides.

Quote:

MattySadler
Throwback to this thread which I think gave a true indication of all of our thoughts on the tools Emery currently has at his disposal. Genuinely none of us named more than a handful of players who we'd want to keep beyond this season as part of our bigger, longer-term project.
My bigger concern with Emery is that, although I have admitted I don't know a great deal about his work, what I do know is that he doesn't have a track record of managing teams that are strong defensively. Although I personally prefer an exciting, fast paced counter attacking style of football with high pressing (like Liverpool and Spurs now), after the embarrassing drivel Wenger put out on a weekly basis I absolutely want to see a stronger defensive unit. Although, I am aware he is still having to use players like Mustafi, Koscielny, Monreal, Kolasinac, Bellerin, Xhaka, etc, who were part of that bad defence under Wenger, I'm just not confident he has it in him to make us strong defensively.

Quote:

Padre Pio
Quote: because when Ramsey has started this season, even in the earlier games, he's either had a Xhaka-Guendouzi or Xhaka-Torreira pivot behind him.
I agree, and at times he was the playere farthest forward, which in my opinion was a flop but that is where he was.

I won't argue with that mate. That's probably a part of why he is sat on the bench now, after from his impending departure, obviously.

I just can't recall Emery trying to use him "sitting deep and dictating". I'm sure Emery saw Ramsey at Euro 2016, where he was one of the best players, and had more of a free reign with a Ledley-Allen pivot behind him.

Again, another lie is that we had a bad defence under Wenger. The overall quality of the team was a bit poor compared to the top team in the league, but we had one of the best defence in England in the last 5 to six years of Wenger. I'm sure we had the highest number of clean sheets in at least 2 of those 6 seasons. Whether you like it or not, Koscielny, Bellerin, Monreal and Xhaka are very good players, exactly the reason why Emery didn't even think about changing them and keep using them whenever they're available. If not that Cech is retiring, Emery would've still been using him. It was at this club that Cech ended up becoming the keeper with the highest number of clean sheets in the history of the Premier League, don't forget that.

---

"A club is a union between players, supporters and directors". - Wenger.
Arsene wenger has done an absolutely masterful job within the constraints he has... Every single year, he has outperformed our spending every single year he has been manager. It is extraordinary. -Gazides.

Quote:

SuperRob

Quote:

MattySadler
Throwback to this thread which I think gave a true indication of all of our thoughts on the tools Emery currently has at his disposal. Genuinely none of us named more than a handful of players who we'd want to keep beyond this season as part of our bigger, longer-term project.
My bigger concern with Emery is that, although I have admitted I don't know a great deal about his work, what I do know is that he doesn't have a track record of managing teams that are strong defensively. Although I personally prefer an exciting, fast paced counter attacking style of football with high pressing (like Liverpool and Spurs now), after the embarrassing drivel Wenger put out on a weekly basis I absolutely want to see a stronger defensive unit. Although, I am aware he is still having to use players like Mustafi, Koscielny, Monreal, Kolasinac, Bellerin, Xhaka, etc, who were part of that bad defence under Wenger, I'm just not confident he has it in him to make us strong defensively.

Quote:

Padre Pio
Quote: because when Ramsey has started this season, even in the earlier games, he's either had a Xhaka-Guendouzi or Xhaka-Torreira pivot behind him.
I agree, and at times he was the playere farthest forward, which in my opinion was a flop but that is where he was.

I won't argue with that mate. That's probably a part of why he is sat on the bench now, after from his impending departure, obviously.

I just can't recall Emery trying to use him "sitting deep and dictating". I'm sure Emery saw Ramsey at Euro 2016, where he was one of the best players, and had more of a free reign with a Ledley-Allen pivot behind him.

At the risk of sounding hypocritical, because I wasn't saying this when Wenger was in charge...

At the big clubs, I'm not sure how much impact the coach has on the defence beyond identifying the right players. At a big club you are expecting to control the game, dominate possession and win. Therefore you have to focus on possession and scoring on the training ground.

At a small club you can get away with playing for a draw by defending well. So being a good defensive coach is more important. That's why people like allardyce and moyes can be successful at small clubs but fail at big clubs and also why arguments like "Burnley can defend properly so why can't we" are missing the point. Burnley can defend properly because they aren't expected to go and win the game so they are happy to defend with 11 players and that's what they work on all week. If big clubs do that, you end up with a situation like mourinho, moyes or van gaal at utd... Now solskaer is focusing on attack and leaving them now open at the back and the defenders and keeper just have to play well without making mistakes. We don't have players who are good enough to do that.

Would we be happy for emery to put 11 players behind the ball and defend our box for 90 minutes against West ham? Would our players be happy with that approach, especially if big names attackers like aubameyang?

What has been responsible for Liverpool suddenly having a great defence? Is it klopps coaching or is it the addition of van dijk and Allison?

We weren't worrying about Wenger being a bad defensive coach when we had toure and Campbell with gilberto and Vieira in front of them. I think at the big clubs who are expected to go and win every game, the emphasis for the coaches has to be what to do in possession and they need to have defenders who know how to defend without too much coaching.

How can you coach Mustafi to make better decisions and stop diving into every challenge? Or Xhaka to stop giving it to their players in front of our goal every game?

Basically I think Wengers biggest failing was in recruitment. Now that isn't even emery's job.

Great observation and I agree with you. Except that we must all find a way to blame Wenger, otherwise we wouldn't appear "objective". Recruitment was what made Wenger to become the legend that he is today, recruitment is what has set him apart from all other coach in the world, both dead and alive. You can fault the quality of defenders we had in the later years of Wenger, but it would be simplistic to conclude that Wenger is to blame because he recruited them without analysing the market and the amount of money we were spending in that market. There is no coach in the world that is perfect, Wenger is not perfect, but the biggest reason why we couldn't compete at the highest level was our lack of investment in the playing side for years, it took its toll and caught up with us in the last two seasons of Wenger. Trust me, no other manager in the world would've been able to keep us at the top for so long struggling with lack of investment in players, having to sell players to pay for stadium, at the same time as big inflation in the transfer market and a massive investment in the team of our direct opponents.

---

"A club is a union between players, supporters and directors". - Wenger.
Arsene wenger has done an absolutely masterful job within the constraints he has... Every single year, he has outperformed our spending every single year he has been manager. It is extraordinary. -Gazides.

Quote:

MattySadler

Quote:

Gunnersingh1
Matty, obviously we weren't going to get rid of all the so called deadwood but apprently Emery knew every player before he joined. Even watching from afar you know the players who are not good enough, but Emery choose to give everyone a chance which i think was a mistake.
As for Ramsey Emery has never played with a number 8 which suggest to me he thought he was getting a player who can dictate. That's is if the reports about building a side around him are true.

Injures shouldn't change your style of play. I don't see what style of play Emery is tryimg to implement.

Obviouely our owner is a idiot but that can't cover up what we're seeing on the pitch.

We're playing some of the worst football i've ever seen.

You literally said "Emery couod have said get rid of the deadwood in the summer to free up some funds. We've got plenty of them." Maybe Emery did say it, but you can only get rid of players who are wanted by other clubs, or who are willing to go. All of our "attractive" players either went during previous windows (Oxlade-Chamberlain, Alexis, Giroud and Walcott) or aren't players we'd necessarily want to get rid of (Ozil). This isn't FIFA or Football Manager. Wouldn't surprise me at all if we were open to bids for Mustafi, Jenkinson, Elneny, etc, but it also wouldn't surprise me if nobody wanted them.

I don't doubt Ramsey wanted to base the team around Ramsey, but when he has used him he's always used him further forward. This "sitting back and dictating" thing is just embellishment.

I completely agree injuries shouldn't change style of play. In a scenario where a manager has actually built his squad, you'd lose a player injured and have a reserve ready to come in and play the same way. That hasn't been the case for us, though. Losing Holding has been massive. We lost Holding and had to put Xhaka in, and later an injured Koscielny. We don't have anyone else in the squad, or even the youth team for that matter, who can do what Monreal/ Kolasinac can do. Instead we had Maitland-Niles/ Lichtsteiner, both of whom are right footed and can't offer that left footed width. We lost Bellerin and had to use Lichtsteiner, who doesn't have his mobility. Breaking up the Xhaka-Torreira pivot to play Xhaka at LB/ CB, with a Guendouzi-Torreira pivot has been a problem as well.

The football isn't great at the moment and hasn't always been great this season, but at times it has. Admittedly not that often, but we definitely played some good stuff at the end of September/ start of October. We destroyed Fulham playing some champagne stuff and then there was the "Ozil show" when we did the same to Leicester after we took off Lichtsteiner.

I just don't think calling for the head of somebody 6 months into replacing somebody who had a 22 year crack at it is fair when you look at all the extenuating factors, personally.

Strange how suddenly Giroud, Walcott and Chamberlain have become our "attractive players" because they're no longer playing at the club. This is the problem we have with those who are very extreme in their criticisms, they lack every sense of objectivity. Only you would claim there are many deadwoods in the club, but when you want to mention them you end up mentioning players who are not even in our first 22.

The other players who you agree have been responsible for our 22 games unbeaten but who have been out to injuries are all Wenger players. Those of you who want to insult Wenger would not remember that those players are good enough when you're at it; you won't remember that they're good enough when they're also giving you a 22 games unbeaten; you only talk about them using the other fringe players at a time when results are bad.

The truth is, there are many attractive players in this team. Bellerin, Koscielny, Monreal, Kolasinac, Xhaka, Leno, Torreira, Ozil, Ramsey, Laca, Holding, Guendozi, Auba, Mikhitaryan, Cech, Mustafi, the centerback from Dortmund. They're all attractive players at different level of strength. When they're all fit and available, we will get our 22 games unbeaten, but like under Wenger, when the injuries set in the performances would drop.

The solution is to spend so that some of these attractive players can become bench warmers, while some of the bench warmers now like Welbeck, Mikhitaryan, Liechstener, Elneny will give way. Such spending cost money, which has always been our problem even when Wenger was here. It's easier for any manager to look exceptional with the right tools, but take away the tools and even the playing field and they may not look the same.

---

"A club is a union between players, supporters and directors". - Wenger.
Arsene wenger has done an absolutely masterful job within the constraints he has... Every single year, he has outperformed our spending every single year he has been manager. It is extraordinary. -Gazides.

Quote:

De Times
It would seem that since I'd been out of here, a lot of you now take pleasure half-truths, or, more appropriately, cheap lies, in a stupid and annoying attempt to rewrite history? Christ Lawd!
Yes, he didn't inherit a title winning side, and he inherited a side that has finished outside the top four for 2 years. He inherited a side that had a poor away record in the one season before he inherited that side. But does that tell the whole story? No!
.
Emery inherited a side that has finished outside the top 4 only two times in about 22 years. That is another fact for you to think about. He inherited one of the best attacks anywhere in English football. He inherited a side that won three FA cups in 5 seasons (actually 4 seasons).
.
Today, we're no longer in that FA Cup. Today, our points haul at this stage of the season is worse off than we were last season. This is so even with the addition of nearly about 8 first team players.
.
What was Emery's answer to the defence he inherited? He he brought one decent centreback, and a goalkeeper he couldn't trust to start until recently. He bought a 34 year old washout rightback (People would've slaughtered Wenger for something like this, yet Wenger only did this in those days when he used to enter a transfer window with a 15 million pounds deficit). He inherited one of the best midfields in the league and succeeded in alienating two of them.

Before Wenger left he'd started spending money on the likes of Auba, Laca, Xhaka, Mikhitaryan, etc. Now we've descented to the likes of Liechtensteiner, Guendozi, and, from the looks of yesterday, Denis Saurez. I'm sorry but I trusted Wenger's vision. Now we're so boring to watch our football is more of a sleeping pill.
.
And one last thing, Emery inherited a better team than Ferguson bequeathed his successor. While Ferguson left an aging team with nothing to prove and no fire left in them, Wenger left a younger team with so much room to improve.

"Emery inherited a side that has finished outside the top 4 only two times in about 22 years" - sorry, how many of the players from those 22 years are at the club now? That's like expecting the new Nottingham Forest manager to do well because they won the Champions League in the 70s.

You say Emery "added 8 first team players", which in itself isn't true, in one paragraph, but then in the very next paragraph state that only two of them are in the first team. So firstly, you're contradicting yourself - make your mind up. Secondly, it is well known that transfer at Arsenal are not down to the head coach. We don't have a Wenger DICTATING over everything anymore. Despite this, I think everyone would agree that Sokratis, Torreira and Guendouzi have all been very good buys so far. Lichtsteiner has not, no one will debate that, but were Bellerin and AMN fit we wouldn't be seeing him anymore. Every single first team defender, bar Lichtsteiner, we have has spent notable time out injured this season. Sokratis, Holding, Bellerin, Koscielny, Monreal, Mustafi, Kolasinac, Mavropanos, Maitland-Niles, Jenkinson, all of them. In fact, had they been fit, Sokratis, Holding and Bellerin would all be starting.

You say he has only trusted starting Leno recently - he has started every game since the end of September, so that just isn't true.

If by "one of the best midfields in the league" you mean the 6th best midfield in the league at BEST, then yes, you're right.

"Wenger's spending" left us with nearly £750k per week tied up in just three players. One of whom, Ozil, has shown both under Emery AND Wenger that he's an inconsistent, show-up-when-he-feels-like-it merchant, and another, Mkhitaryan, hasn't produced consistently at any level since 2015-16! "Wenger's spending" has left us with players like Elneny and Jenkinson sitting pretty on £50k per week each - neither of them are good enough for a top six club and we can't even shift them! "Wenger's spending" left us a Europa League Club on Champions League wages, unable to increase our wage bill with permanent signings last month. Wenger's bloody spending indeed...

"Wenger left a younger team with so much room to improve" yet we comfortably have the highest average age of the top 6, and none of them were improving under Wenger anyway...

I'm under no illusions, I know we haven't played good football consistently since late November and we've been awful defensively all season, but I absolutely expected this from whoever took over as manager. Anyone with half a brain expected the same. The new coach has AT LEAST 3 seasons of negligent defending, negligent spending, negligent selling, negligent contract handling... I could go on... to put right.

Bash Emery as a coach all you want. Bash what we're doing on the pitch all you want. Don't try to defend Wenger while you're doing it though. The new gaffer, and the club's hands, are well and truly tied behind their backs because of the actions of him and Gazidis.

Quote:

De Times
Again, another lie is that we had a bad defence under Wenger. The overall quality of the team was a bit poor compared to the top team in the league, but we had one of the best defence in England in the last 5 to six years of Wenger. I'm sure we had the highest number of clean sheets in at least 2 of those 6 seasons. Whether you like it or not, Koscielny, Bellerin, Monreal and Xhaka are very good players, exactly the reason why Emery didn't even think about changing them and keep using them whenever they're available. If not that Cech is retiring, Emery would've still been using him. It was at this club that Cech ended up becoming the keeper with the highest number of clean sheets in the history of the Premier League, don't forget that.

I mean, where do I start? The fact that you would even try to argue that we were a good side defensively...

Also, Cech broke the clean sheet record with 170 clean sheets... 162 of them were at Chelsea. He broke that record in December 2015. It took him until March 2018 to get to 200...

Quote:

De Times
Strange how suddenly Giroud, Walcott and Chamberlain have become our "attractive players" because they're no longer playing at the club. This is the problem we have with those who are very extreme in their criticisms, they lack every sense of objectivity. Only you would claim there are many deadwoods in the club, but when you want to mention them you end up mentioning players who are not even in our first 22.
The other players who you agree have been responsible for our 22 games unbeaten but who have been out to injuries are all Wenger players. Those of you who want to insult Wenger would not remember that those players are good enough when you're at it; you won't remember that they're good enough when they're also giving you a 22 games unbeaten; you only talk about them using the other fringe players at a time when results are bad.

The truth is, there are many attractive players in this team. Bellerin, Koscielny, Monreal, Kolasinac, Xhaka, Leno, Torreira, Ozil, Ramsey, Laca, Holding, Guendozi, Auba, Mikhitaryan, Cech, Mustafi, the centerback from Dortmund. They're all attractive players at different level of strength. When they're all fit and available, we will get our 22 games unbeaten, but like under Wenger, when the injuries set in the performances would drop.

The solution is to spend so that some of these attractive players can become bench warmers, while some of the bench warmers now like Welbeck, Mikhitaryan, Liechstener, Elneny will give way. Such spending cost money, which has always been our problem even when Wenger was here. It's easier for any manager to look exceptional with the right tools, but take away the tools and even the playing field and they may not look the same.

No, unsurprisingly you're misunderstanding. This isn't a case of grass being greener, Giroud, Walcott and Oxlade-Chamberlain were "attractive players" because they were assets that other teams wanted to buy.

Deadwood = something that is no longer of us. I'm not sure what a "first 22" is but why would players in our "first" anything be classed as deadwood? That would go against the definition of dead wood.

Dead wood = Jenkinson and Elneny.
Important first XI players = Sokratis, Bellerin, Torriera, etc...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/02/2019 07:57 by MattySadler.

Well said Matty.

De Times bends the narrative to suit his prejudices. As for the football being attractive under Wenger I had the misfortune of watching several games in the last few seasons he was manager and they were often boring sideways-passing snorefests. No pace, no excitement, just sluggish tippy tappy around the midfield which came to a stand still when it ventured near the opponent's box which by then was full of the opposing team's defenders.

To undo the mess Wenger left us in will take several seasons and Emery may not be the man to do it but at least we're rid of a manager whose best years were way behind him. Strangely Wenger, despite his boats of being wanted by every club on the planet, has yet to saunter into a manager's roll.

Quote:

hippogunner
Well said Matty.
De Times bends the narrative to suit his prejudices. As for the football being attractive under Wenger I had the misfortune of watching several games in the last few seasons he was manager and they were often boring sideways-passing snorefests. No pace, no excitement, just sluggish tippy tappy around the midfield which came to a stand still when it ventured near the opponent's box which by then was full of the opposing team's defenders.

To undo the mess Wenger left us in will take several seasons and Emery may not be the man to do it but at least we're rid of a manager whose best years were way behind him. Strangely Wenger, despite his boats of being wanted by every club on the planet, has yet to saunter into a manager's roll.

Thanks.

I know good/ attractive football is subjective, but you're right. During latter years under Wenger so, so often it was boring, frustrating, toothless...

Back Emery and build around the younger players it's going to take a long time but cannot see an alternative.First half yesterday we looked very good poor decision making and players not doing a basic job cost us at least two of the goals Lichsteiner should never put an AFC shirt on again.

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Under new managment

Now that we have the benefit of hindsight, Arsene Wenger is just a fraud and got lucky.

#1 - He inherited a strong Back-4, albeit ageing, from GG and also from Bruce Ricoh, Bergy. The saving grace is he dragged Arsenal FC into modern sport science and extended the life of those ageing GG players.

#2 - His intimated knowledge of French League, with his vast connection then, gave him a distinct advantage over the rest of the Football World … and when they woke up, we were continuously being out-bidded by our rivals.

#3 - David Dein was the man that convinced Sol Campbell to cross over, and also his persistence in pursuing Gilberto got Wenger his man. When Dein left, it was downhill all the way.


#4 - Bankers recognized the value of Arsene Wenger and insisted he stayed on as part of the loan deal. He became indispensable and there was no "check-and-balance" on him resulting in his erratic behaviors and transfer dealings like a latter-day Brian Clough that also "destroyed" Nottingham Forest.

#5 - Arsene Wenger never did trusted youths as his only success was Fabregas in 2005/06 season.

#6 - Except for his 1st season, we never finished below 2nd up to 2004/50 season. Thereafter, the rebuilding of ManU and financial doping by Chelski knocked us off the perch and we never recovered ever since. Simple reasons are bad budget transfers and failure of Youth Project.


#7 - And when funds was available in 2013, a desperate Wenger followed the Galactico Policy with Ozil, Alexis, Laca, Auba and bad buys by overpaying Xhaka and Mustafi.

#8 - Wenger failed to realise that a Galactico Policy requires you to buy the entire team with two world-class players in every position. Wenegr didn't do it and his luxurious buys were doomed to fialure without supporting squad and competent water carriers.

#9 - Arsene Wenger is just a limp dick since 2013; desire is there but simply lack the modern technique and aids to perform even with a pair of nubile nymphmaniac lap-dancing on his @#$%&.

#10- Unai Emery? A stiff @#$%& and a loudmouth bragging on his past record and endurance; and who antognised the same pair of nymphomaniac by treating them roughly and shooting off his load just by being over-excited and before even have a chance of peentration.

---

'I like the total intensification, where there are crashes and bangs everywhere, pure adrenaline and no one being able to breathe' Jurgen Klopp.

Holy cow.. all hell broke loose here. DeTimes is circling around like Musa Dembele on this thread around folks here on AT. Shame... When we were beating teams with 22 games unbeaten run where were you???????
Well, I'm not gonna argue with DeTimes, GS or Shano here, the only thing I could say to them well go support Bahamas FC beach soccer team, Wenger is their manager. You guys aren't Arsenal fans never were. Take your stuff, leave n support another team bunch of shi.t talking, Wenger lickin douchebags. Go find another club, go find now!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/02/2019 21:22 by SandyB.

Yes let's start down Evertons route of constantly changing the manager it's really worked for them

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Under new managment

Quote:

SandyB
Holy cow.. all hell broke loose here. DeTimes is circling around like Musa Dembele on this thread around folks here on AT. Shame... When we were beating teams with 22 games unbeaten run where were you??????? Well, I'm not gonna argue with DeTimes, GS or Shano here, the only thing I could say to them well go support Bahamas FC beach soccer team, Wenger is their manager. You guys aren't Arsenal fans never were. Take your stuff, leave n support another team bunch of shi.t talking, Wenger lickin douchebags. Go find another club, go find now!!

Im quite sure now Wenger had to reject your anus when you offered it to him having believed in what was chanted at old trafford.

Cmon your insulted pride makes you write all these weird things. Admit it.

Quote:

grayfox1

Quote:

SandyB
Holy cow.. all hell broke loose here. DeTimes is circling around like Musa Dembele on this thread around folks here on AT. Shame... When we were beating teams with 22 games unbeaten run where were you??????? Well, I'm not gonna argue with DeTimes, GS or Shano here, the only thing I could say to them well go support Bahamas FC beach soccer team, Wenger is their manager. You guys aren't Arsenal fans never were. Take your stuff, leave n support another team bunch of shi.t talking, Wenger lickin douchebags. Go find another club, go find now!!

Im quite sure now Wenger had to reject your anus when you offered it to him having believed in what was chanted at old trafford.

Cmon your insulted pride makes you write all these weird things. Admit it.

Another AKB troll?

Just get him out. It's unaceptable now!

I don't want him gone, I just need him to do a real soul searching asking himself what it is he is actually doing.

---

Wenger Is Gone Now So Can We Be Allowed To Breathe Now???

NO TACTICS, NO DESIRE, NO CLUE!

JUST GET HIM OUT AND THE DROSS ON THE PITCH TOO!

I'm not sure we could attract a top manager to our club with the players we have.
Plus he isn't going to get the money to really change things.

Emery has to sort things out quickly.
The players we have now can't play his way. They aren't capable.
Most are to slow (defensively & midfield ) and haven't got a brain between them.

---

I'm not convinced that changing the manager every 6 months is going to work for us. If we had some superstars and lots of money to spend like Chelsea or utd then it can work, but I think it would only make our players opt out. They play like cowards and knowing that if they play @#$%& the manager is going to get sacked just gives them an excuse.

If you back the manager so everyone knows he is staying for 2 years minimum, then it's the players who need to up their attitude or they are going to be gone.

There is a huge attitude problem among the playing staff at arsenal and a good of leaders on the pitch. Changing the manager isn't going to fix that.

They have had years of bring mollycoddled and idle. They lack the technical skill to play quick release football from the back.
They dont understand tactics and are not able to switch things on their own initiative.

---

- until Wenger moves on, they'll always be the also-rans in the major competitions. A club in elite purgatory. Always good enough to make it to the big race, never fast or smart enough to push over the finish line in first place. That's all about the manager. Until he changes, Arsenal fans will continue to celebrate glorious failure.

I want rid of the majority of players too but I can't trust Emery even if it's only been a short time since he's been here.

He keeps on picking the wrong teams. The tactics are baffling. The football is dreadfull. I just din't know what his game plan is, I can't work it out in most games.

He's more pragmatic than Jose Mourinho and I don't trust him. I see nothing to get excited about or any hope going forward.

I want someone in who we can see is heading us in the right direction.

He hasnt got much to choose in defence has he?
Lacazette is a good player, Torreria is good, Xhaka has improved. Auba was recovering on bench after illness.
Basically we have 3 or 4 top players and the rest are either hard working but uninspired, or not up to it. There is no bundle of riches here, no crown jewels to bring in a top manager.

---

- until Wenger moves on, they'll always be the also-rans in the major competitions. A club in elite purgatory. Always good enough to make it to the big race, never fast or smart enough to push over the finish line in first place. That's all about the manager. Until he changes, Arsenal fans will continue to celebrate glorious failure.

What exactly happened? We will still go through.

Really looking like we made a bad decision hiring this guy. Why does he hate Ozil so much?

The teams has no wingers and starved of creativity through the middle yet he's not playing one of the most creative players on the planet because he doesn't like his work rate.

But happy to play so much other dross. He's got till end of season then his position needs a serious review.

I think he needs a couple of transfer windows before we can truly judge him, get his own players in and get rid of some dross. I know that might not mean much given Kranky and his willingness t hang on to all the money. If some good payers don't come in and at least give us somtehing to watch, then I'll think he should go.

We have no option but to back him as we won't get someone with a better cv than him until the club structure is improved. We have similar pbms at youth level as well. We are west ham level workout those couple of players that all of us agree on are good.


The real pbm is the club hierarchy that won't let him hire. Wait till july next year, back the team. It will take 3/4 years once u drop out lf top 4 unless you are willing to spend big

I've read each and every post on this thread and talk about going round and round in circles.

IMO there isn't a football coach on the face of this planet, who could join our club and make us successful again.

We have only one class player in our squad. The rest are either average, poor or past it.

Emery's defenders point out that he's inherited AWs average squad and it will take time for him build up his resorses. Unfortunately he will never, ever be able to achieve this, as long as our club drives endlessly down the road of self-sustainablity.

It's nearly impossible. And before anyone points to the Foxes efforts 3 years ago. There was a reason they were paying 5000/1 at the bookies.

The Foxes didn't have to play in Europe and as soon as they did, the cracks opened up like a cravass and they ended up sacking the most successful manager in their history the very next season.

I repeat myself. There is no manager in football, who can succeed at our club so long as our owner won't spend. Simple.

It's not Emery. It's our owner.

Not necessarily true. Spurs barely spend any money and are doing alright.

They're not winning trophies but they are comfortably top4 team and competitive against most teams.

All you need is a top manager. A few shrewd signings like Alli, Ericksen & Alderwereild. Along with one or two home grown players becoming world class like Kane.

So we can't just blame the owner. Emery can deffo make top4 by next season if he's a top manager.

Emery would breeze top 4 with Spurs current squad, I’m confident of that. The trouble with the squad Emery inherited from Wenger though is that it’s s.hit and he’s not being given sufficient funds to get it to where he/we need it to be.

Wanting him out is ridiculous at this point.

---

Albert Einstein once said: "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

We're one point behind United in fourth place. One point. It's nothing. And we play them next month too, at the Emirates.

Top four is in our hands lads and therefore there is only so much sympathy I can give Emery if he doesn't deliver it. I'm not saying sack the bloke if we don't qualify for the Champions League, but don't let him away with it either. Don't gloss over it. The table proves it's there for us this season.

I don't care if he has disadvantages. So did Wenger for eight years until 2013 but we still demanded that he trumped the odds to win the league because that was the job. That was his mandate, to win the league, and it's Emery's mandate to secure a top-four finish.

If we don't finish fourth, and by Christmas of next season we don't look like getting top four, then at this point he has to go.

Wenger misssed the top four for the last two seasons.

---

- until Wenger moves on, they'll always be the also-rans in the major competitions. A club in elite purgatory. Always good enough to make it to the big race, never fast or smart enough to push over the finish line in first place. That's all about the manager. Until he changes, Arsenal fans will continue to celebrate glorious failure.

Quote:

Shane
We're one point behind United in fourth place. One point. It's nothing. And we play them next month too, at the Emirates.
Top four is in our hands lads and therefore there is only so much sympathy I can give Emery if he doesn't deliver it. I'm not saying sack the bloke if we don't qualify for the Champions League, but don't let him away with it either. Don't gloss over it. The table proves it's there for us this season.

I don't care if he has disadvantages. So did Wenger for eight years until 2013 but we still demanded that he trumped the odds to win the league because that was the job. That was his mandate, to win the league, and it's Emery's mandate to secure a top-four finish.

If we don't finish fourth, and by Christmas of next season we don't look like getting top four, then at this point he has to go.

I think that's fair

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Under new managment

Quote:

Shane
We're one point behind United in fourth place. One point. It's nothing. And we play them next month too, at the Emirates.
Top four is in our hands lads and therefore there is only so much sympathy I can give Emery if he doesn't deliver it. I'm not saying sack the bloke if we don't qualify for the Champions League, but don't let him away with it either. Don't gloss over it. The table proves it's there for us this season.

I don't care if he has disadvantages. So did Wenger for eight years until 2013 but we still demanded that he trumped the odds to win the league because that was the job. That was his mandate, to win the league, and it's Emery's mandate to secure a top-four finish.

If we don't finish fourth, and by Christmas of next season we don't look like getting top four, then at this point he has to go.

No matter what never bringing back Wenger. The guy is a con artist.

Quote:

SandyB

Quote:

Shane
We're one point behind United in fourth place. One point. It's nothing. And we play them next month too, at the Emirates.
Top four is in our hands lads and therefore there is only so much sympathy I can give Emery if he doesn't deliver it. I'm not saying sack the bloke if we don't qualify for the Champions League, but don't let him away with it either. Don't gloss over it. The table proves it's there for us this season.

I don't care if he has disadvantages. So did Wenger for eight years until 2013 but we still demanded that he trumped the odds to win the league because that was the job. That was his mandate, to win the league, and it's Emery's mandate to secure a top-four finish.

If we don't finish fourth, and by Christmas of next season we don't look like getting top four, then at this point he has to go.

No matter what never bringing back Wenger. The guy is a con artist.

Put it this way.
Arsenal is in Wenger DNA.
Sack Emery now, and Silent Stan will have no qualm to appoint Wenger as an interim Manager until a permanent manager is found.

You want to sack Emery now, with Wenger as the obvious choice to become an interim manager for rest of season?

---

'I like the total intensification, where there are crashes and bangs everywhere, pure adrenaline and no one being able to breathe' Jurgen Klopp.

Quote:

Padre Pio
Wenger missed the top four for the last two seasons.

And he was sacked.

Well there you are 2 seasons then, which makes it a bit early for calling for him to go

---

- until Wenger moves on, they'll always be the also-rans in the major competitions. A club in elite purgatory. Always good enough to make it to the big race, never fast or smart enough to push over the finish line in first place. That's all about the manager. Until he changes, Arsenal fans will continue to celebrate glorious failure.

I'm not calling for him to go. I just don't particularly think we should be glossing over it if we don't finish in the top four this season. We're one point off the pace with 12 games left.

Emery will be getting every ounce of credit if we finish fourth, and rightly so, but to give him zero criticism if we don't get it is illogical.

Quote:

Shane
I'm not calling for him to go. I just don't particularly think we should be glossing over it if we don't finish in the top four this season. We're one point off the pace with 12 games left.
Emery will be getting every ounce of credit if we finish fourth, and rightly so, but to give him zero criticism if we don't get it is illogical.

I wasnt saying you were, but the thread was.

I dont think we will finish in top four unfortunately Man U has the better squad, I never expected any manager to get us back in top 4 after two seasons out of it. Klopp couldnt do it at Liverpool. I would expect to see some improvement and of course we should asssess the new managers progress, but campaing slogans of Emery Out at this stage are nonsense (yes I know you dont believe that but the originator of the thread does).

---

- until Wenger moves on, they'll always be the also-rans in the major competitions. A club in elite purgatory. Always good enough to make it to the big race, never fast or smart enough to push over the finish line in first place. That's all about the manager. Until he changes, Arsenal fans will continue to celebrate glorious failure.