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We need to stop
CazOnARola (IP Logged)
22 May, 2018 07:26
dwelling on stuff about wenger...
I think the negativity on the forums now just has to go.

Wenger is gone. There's absolutely no reason to be negative about the future right away.

Sure there is no harm in voicing concerns about ticket pricing, food pricing etc and AST is there for a reason.

But

After goal that is scored from outside the box.. "yesssss! I'm sure if wenger were here he would have told xyz to pass around the box rather than take that shot... Ha ha"

Or
"@#$%& holding is so @#$%&.. Why did wenger sign him... What can unai do when wenger gave him such a @#$%& squad"

Wenger is gone. We all need to move on make the forum like what it used to be 7/8 years ago, where even if there were ppl who wanted wenger out/wenger in, it wasn't the only thing discussed in every single thread like its been for the past 3 years.

WENGER IS OUT. It has ended. Let's move on as fans, as club.

 
Re: We need to stop
younghansolo (IP Logged)
22 May, 2018 09:43
I agree to an extent. Wenger isn't the problem anymore. He's gone but the problems haven't.

 
Re: We need to stop
Merlion96 (IP Logged)
22 May, 2018 13:57
Quote:
younghansolo
I agree to an extent. Wenger isn't the problem anymore. He's gone but the problems haven't.

Nope.

Like making an incision (Arsene Wenger) to drain as subcutaneous infection with pus (deadwoods and Wenger love children) all drained out.

Agreed.
Yesterday news and we should have more interesting things to comment and argue or debate now.

 
Re: We need to stop
SandyB (IP Logged)
22 May, 2018 14:11
Agreed once the season starts the discussion will surely turn towards the team, analysis of games n how Emery is dealing with the team. Wenger will be called into the discussion only as matter of comparison n regarding the development and adaptability of the players he left behind.

 
Re: We need to stop
Merlion96 (IP Logged)
22 May, 2018 14:36
Quote:
SandyB
Agreed once the season starts the discussion will surely turn towards the team, analysis of games n how Emery is dealing with the team. Wenger will be called into the discussion only as matter of comparison n regarding the development and adaptability of the players he left behind.

Every circus needs clowns.
But a hypocritical snake-oil salesman?

But I will buy his memoirs ... plenty of skeletons rattling in his many cupboards. Let the Blame Game starts.



'Most owners take out of the club and Vichai just put in. Without him, we would not have won the Premier League. It was a once-in-a-lifetime thing.' Danny Barry, a Leicester City fan for 64 years.

 
Re: We need to stop
younghansolo (IP Logged)
22 May, 2018 15:57
If you honestly believe Wenger was our only problem, you are incredibly short sighted.

 
Re: We need to stop
celine dion (IP Logged)
22 May, 2018 17:00
I agree with the sentiments here but unless the new manager wins everything there is to win in his first season then a large segment of fans will compare with what might have been if Wenger had stayed on. This is because, as they have ably demonstrated for several years now, they believe the man to be some kind of footballing messiah, and are prepared to justify this view, lately at least, by ignoring the very tangible and reliable measure set of how good a manager is by looking at his or her football results against, you know, other teams and stuff.

You wont get rid of a cult just like that, unless the new manager has resounding success almost instantly, its going to take a good few years to stamp the tw*ts out. The 'I told you so' lobby will be hovering around for a long time yet. Ignoring the fact that if the new manager is a chump, he will probably get sacked and a new one given a go, which is how other football clubs have always operated.

 
Re: We need to stop
Shane (IP Logged)
22 May, 2018 17:14
Wholeheartedly agree with this Caz, but it's a futile request. This has become an anti-Wenger platform and will continue to be so in spite of his departure. That's not a criticism, just an observation, and an opinion.

I personally believe there is a genuine and profound hatred - a word I don't use lightly - for Wenger on here; not because there are perfectly valid reasons to justify the disgust, but because of unchallenged exaggerations and one-sided, skewed data which everyone sort of assimilates to and eventually believes as fact when it's not. If you want something to be true then it's going to be true, and if you want Wenger to be a villainous, money-grabbing, sociopathic, failure of a football manager then best believe you will manipulate information, ignore context and bend reality to make this true.

It's confirmation bias, clear examples of people only seeing and interpreting things which validate that underlying belief.

It's the same self deception which has helped psychics and other such charlatans trick people for centuries, and you won't convince some of those people that the medium probably didn't communicate with their dead cat who was hit by a Volvo 40 years ago because they want to believe that they did, in the same way if you want to believe that Arsene Wenger is not only a horrendous football manager but an immoral human being, or that your girlfriend f*cking your dad, or that Petr Cech has lost his bravery, then you will.

It's their reality, not the reality, and it'll continue to be their reality long after Wenger is gone, sort of like how KKK members didn't say 'Ah f*ck it let's just move on then shall we?' when people of colour were granted equal rights and began developing a foothold in American society.

I've been guilty of self deceit and confirmation bias on here and in real life too. I'm pretty sure everyone has because it's a very common, very normal thing, which is why I'm not judging anyone. I'm just trying to articulate how I see things. You could easily ask 'Well Shane how can you be so sure that you yourself aren't only seeing what you want to see regarding Wenger?' and it's a perfectly valid question, and one with a perfectly valid answer: I DO and have ALWAYS criticised him when I thought it was fair and right to do so.

Don't get me wrong, Wenger has a list of flaws as long as his f*cking coat, but he did some astounding things at Arsenal and those who are more grateful than hateful aren't AKBs, or cult members, or idiots; they just aren't consumed by the hate of their own making.

 
Re: We need to stop
celine dion (IP Logged)
22 May, 2018 17:44
Indeed. I have a profound dislike of Arsene Wenger, not just because of how I perceive the man, but also because of the effect he was allowed to have on the club. Its not worth getting yourself too worked up about. A lot of people REALLY dont like him. Of course, that doesn't mean we wouldnt like him if we MET HIM. He could probably be very nice. He's certainly got a good sense of humour and all the people who worked with him liked him. So when we say we dislike Wenger, we mean his persona as manager of Arsenal football club.There was something deeply odd about how he was allowed to establish himself for so long despite such thoroughly obvious shortcomings in terms of that basics of football management in the last 8 or so years of his tenure. Football is essentially pantomime. Its all entirely absurd of you over analyse it. People who profess to HATE Jose Mourinho would probably come to absolutely adore the man if he moved in next door.

Your inference of course is that my view in Wenger makes me a twisted, unpleasant person. Im not, of course. Im very nice. I just think a football manager should be just that, a manager. Not held up as a symbol of moral guidance, some kind of latter day saint, a sage, a visionary, at least not when we're getting done over by Watford and Swansea on a fairly regular basis. That doesn't make me a twisted, hate ridden person. Indeed i pretty much gave up on Arsenal for the last 3 years and regarded things with amusement more than anything else. it makes me a pragmatist.

You cant just look at Wengers career in terms of how he did very very well for a period of time (8 years perhaps) then went a bit off the rails. Because as he went off the rails, which he did, he showed no capacity for introspection or self analysis. His traits for blaming everyone and everything for his failings whilst the likes of Mustafi and Cech could be seen tripping over the ball almost COMICALLY because they aren't up to their jobs, became comical in themselves, as well as profoundly irritating. His tenure at Arsenal and his self projection became extremely political and geared towards self preservation and very little else. So in my view its very difficult to ignore these elements of personality and simply clap him off into the sunset. He is a deeply flawed character, albeit on the surface an engaging and affable one. We aren't going to simply shake off the utter emotional carnage he created among fans, because we've got another punter in, the cuts will run very deep, accentuated by social media as they are. But it doesnt make one side knuckle dragging, hate ridden swamp dwellers, as has often been the inference. We just wish he'd had the good grace and capacity for self awareness to have thrown in his towel 3-4 years ago, before a good third of paying supporters simply stopped going to games.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 22/05/2018 17:52 by celine dion.

 
Re: We need to stop
SandyB (IP Logged)
22 May, 2018 17:45
Quote:
Shane
Wholeheartedly agree with this Caz, but it's a futile request. This has become an anti-Wenger platform and will continue to be so in spite of his departure. That's not a criticism, just an observation, and an opinion.
I personally believe there is a genuine and profound hatred - a word I don't use lightly - for Wenger on here; not because there are perfectly valid reasons to justify the disgust, but because of unchallenged exaggerations and one-sided, skewed data which everyone sort of assimilates to and eventually believes as fact when it's not. If you want something to be true then it's going to be true, and if you want Wenger to be a villainous, money-grabbing, sociopathic, failure of a football manager then best believe you will manipulate information, ignore context and bend reality to make this true.

It's confirmation bias, clear examples of people only seeing and interpreting things which validate that underlying belief.

It's the same self deception which has helped psychics and other such charlatans trick people for centuries, and you won't convince some of those people that the medium probably didn't communicate with their dead cat who was hit by a Volvo 40 years ago because they want to believe that they did, in the same way if you want to believe that Arsene Wenger is not only a horrendous football manager but an immoral human being, or that your girlfriend f*cking your dad, or that Petr Cech has lost his bravery, then you will.

It's their reality, not the reality, and it'll continue to be their reality long after Wenger is gone, sort of like how KKK members didn't say 'Ah f*ck it let's just move on then shall we?' when people of colour were granted equal rights and began developing a foothold in American society.

I've been guilty of self deceit and confirmation bias on here and in real life too. I'm pretty sure everyone has because it's a very common, very normal thing, which is why I'm not judging anyone. I'm just trying to articulate how I see things. You could easily ask 'Well Shane how can you be so sure that you yourself aren't only seeing what you want to see regarding Wenger?' and it's a perfectly valid question, and one with a perfectly valid answer: I DO and have ALWAYS criticised him when I thought it was fair and right to do so.

Don't get me wrong, Wenger has a list of flaws as long as his f*cking coat, but he did some astounding things at Arsenal and those who are more grateful than hateful aren't AKBs, or cult members, or idiots; they just aren't consumed by the hate of their own making.

LOL, good try you proved yourself an astounding AKB by comparing people who didn’t like Wenger n finally manage to kick Wenger out with OMG KKK!! Well just swallowing the history KKK is a cult n so is the AKBs. The reason you denounced Arteta or Henry or anyone else as jokes even before they were even appointed proves the bias of your Wenger view. Also, I want to speculate today, fans like you who idolize a manager or a player bigger than the game will be the 1st in the line to denounce vocally on slightest of opportunity n bring the greatness of Wenger, exactly this is how the world rolls.
Till then peace.

 
Re: We need to stop
CazOnARola (IP Logged)
22 May, 2018 18:12
I don't care about the rest of the world. The used to be threads about players i hasn't ever seen or heard about.

Kalela especially. And there are several others who did the same. Maybe it's normal to compare and i get that.

But id be very happy if AT an went back to what it was 3 years ago if not 7 years ago. And not turn every singly thread into how wenger @#$%& the club up or how he was a good at what he did.

A thread once in a while is fine, but every single thread either turn me into a wenger joke or about his press conferences when he had absolutely nothing to do with the club club anymore.

The forum is a big part of my football experience, not just arsenal, and if it just stays the same as what it had been for the past 3- 4 years then wenger hasn't really left for me.

 
Re: We need to stop
celine dion (IP Logged)
22 May, 2018 18:32
OK, thats a fair comment. and there are some of us here for whom the forum became a really big part of our lives years back but for whom it then became largely uninteresting. I used to write for the forum, Ive made one or two decent friends off it in real life, and the first thing I used to do when I got up in the morning was log in.

But little by little my interest in Arsenal was eaten away, to the point that I rarely contributed to it for 2-3 years. Its no coincidence that now Wenger has gone, Im feeling compelled to come on here again.

These things are not unrelated. And it will take longer than a couple of weeks to shake off the effect Wenger had.

 
Re: We need to stop
CazOnARola (IP Logged)
22 May, 2018 18:37
Quote:
celine dion
OK, thats a fair comment. and there are some of us here for whom the forum became a really big part of our lives years back but for whom it then became largely uninteresting. I used to write for the forum, Ive made one or two decent friends off it in real life, and the first thing I used to do when I got up in the morning was log in.
But little by little my interest in Arsenal was eaten away, to the point that I rarely contributed to it for 2-3 years. Its no coincidence that now Wenger has gone, Im feeling compelled to come on here again.

These things are not unrelated. And it will take longer than a couple of weeks to shake off the effect Wenger had.
Welcome back mate. You and Shane are probably two of the best writers here imho. And the forum is richer with the usual folks around again.

I miss the banter between Tom, jitt, GS. I'm glad Flava and Pk are still at it a lot of times. Although i understand others will have reservations grinning smiley

 
Re: We need to stop
Shane (IP Logged)
22 May, 2018 19:00
Quote:
celine dion
Your inference of course is that my view in Wenger makes me a twisted, unpleasant person. Im not, of course. Im very nice. I just think a football manager should be just that, a manager. Not held up as a symbol of moral guidance, some kind of latter day saint, a sage, a visionary, at least not when we're getting done over by Watford and Swansea on a fairly regular basis. That doesn't make me a twisted, hate ridden person. Indeed i pretty much gave up on Arsenal for the last 3 years and regarded things with amusement more than anything else. it makes me a pragmatist.

I never inferred this, and would never, because it's a stupid suggestion. In the other thread I said it was "callous" to disqualify someone's grief during a loss of some kind on the basis that they're rich, not that you're inherently a callous man if that's what you're talking about. In this thread I explicitly stated that I wasn't judging anyone, and that everything written was merely my opinion.

If you trust your judgement on Wenger then who the f*ck am I say otherwise, but confirmation bias is definitely a real thing and it's absolutely not a stretch to believe that someone who has admitted to want Arsenal to lose football matches because of their opinion on one man might well have an inaccurate and skewed perception of the same man based on what he wants to think about him.

 
Re: We need to stop
celine dion (IP Logged)
22 May, 2018 19:37
An opinion IS judging someone mate. If the opinion judges someone. Don’t worry, I’m not overly ars*d about it. But your opinions definitely judge people. As much as you are still a nice bloke. My opinions judge people as well. But I’m not as bothered about saying they don’t as you are.

 
Re: We need to stop
Shane (IP Logged)
22 May, 2018 20:28
Well for example if I say Sandy has as many brain cells as Arsenal do away points in 2018 then it's because he has a well-documented history of calling me Dumbo and saying I'm less intelligent than him, but in this instance I certainly didn't judge anyone.

I said that self-deceit is a pretty normal thing, admitted that I'm guilty of it from time to time, and tried to ask people to explore the idea that some of their perception about Wenger might be based on wanting to dislike him and bending stats, facts and reality to fit their pre-existing desire to dislike him. If anyone feels judged by the theory, because that's all it is, then I apologise, but I said straight away in that earlier post that I wasn't criticising anyone so I had decent intentions.

 
Re: We need to stop
SandyB (IP Logged)
22 May, 2018 21:04
Quote:
Shane
Well for example if I say Sandy has as many brain cells as Arsenal do away points in 2018 then it's because he has a well-documented history of calling me Dumbo and saying I'm less intelligent than him, but in this instance I certainly didn't judge anyone.

Calling you dumbo doesn't make you a dumbo.. you Jellyfish. Calling a dumbo a dumbo isn't make you a Jellyfish either.. (Sm22)

 
Re: We need to stop
Merlion96 (IP Logged)
22 May, 2018 21:30
Quote:
SandyB
Quote:
Shane
Well for example if I say Sandy has as many brain cells as Arsenal do away points in 2018 then it's because he has a well-documented history of calling me Dumbo and saying I'm less intelligent than him, but in this instance I certainly didn't judge anyone.

Calling you dumbo doesn't make you a dumbo.. you Jellyfish. Calling a dumbo a dumbo isn't make you a Jellyfish either.. (Sm22)

Yeah, calling him thick as a plank doesn't make me an eco-terrorist nor him a rubbish bin bomb terrorist. grinning smiley

 
Re: We need to stop
Padre Pio (IP Logged)
22 May, 2018 21:35
I find some of this a bit puzzling, is it anti Wenger fans who are posting on Twitter that Emery is the new Moyes?
I am so relieved that he has gone, we know the board will remain stingy and won’t be giving a big budget to the new manager. Who will be better at dealing with that Arteta or Emery?
I really hope the new manager will succeed, and be given time to develop the team. Every time the new manager loses a game Wenger will be lauded by some, every time he wins a game he will be lauded by others. If fans behave like that it will be a zero sum game, he will need time to adjust, Bertie Mee took 4 years to turn things around, these days that about the maximum time a manager gets in total. Emery won a domestic treble in France and that still wasn’t good enough. So let’s get behind the new manager. Emery might be another Graham and manage on a small budget, or a Ranieri always a nearly man, until one lucky season at Leicester he couldn’t get near repeating. I say lucky because all the main rivals were in disarray. And Wenger proved he was a busted flush when he couldn’t win the league that year. Whatever I agree with Celine it has whetted the appetite. Let’s forget AKB and WOB it’s time for a change, nothing is gained by living in the past



- until Wenger moves on, they'll always be the also-rans in the major competitions. A club in elite purgatory. Always good enough to make it to the big race, never fast or smart enough to push over the finish line in first place. That's all about the manager. Until he changes, Arsenal fans will continue to celebrate glorious failure.

 
Re: We need to stop
AJ The Gunner (IP Logged)
22 May, 2018 21:55
Would be great to get AT back to what it used to be. I too used to write articles here but when Wenger spiraled out of control, I lost my mojo.
Almost drastically I lost my rose tinted glasses. He almost destroyed my love for the game.

It's easy for me to ignore Wenger as long as he stops his emotional Blackmail's and truly moves on. He is no Messiah anyways. I respect his achievements for Arsenal and the game but I dislike his person. Anyone who blames everything under the earth but himself is a no no for me. I have one as a President and Nigeria is bleeding as I write.

Win or loose, all i care about is the state of my club and I truly hope Emery if it's a sure thing will finally sort out our defense.



Wenger Is Gone Now So Can We Be Allowed To Breathe Now???


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