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Do you realise?
Shane (IP Logged)
11 January, 2018 17:25
.....that Lukas Podolski was probably our most high-profile player when Arsenal signed Ozil? It's important to mention this because those of you predicting the end of days after losing Sanchez and Ozil tend to forget that those two didn't join a team full of all stars, did they? Nope, so why would losing them mean that it's impossible to attract big players ever again? We had very, very, very few when they arrived in the first place. We have no Champions League football to offer, but neither did United when they signed Angel di Maria or Falcao.

Champions League isn't the be all and end all, so what's attractive for players when deciding on which club to join? I'm no professional footballer, but football is a job and like any job there are certain things which appeal to everyone. They want to work for a good company, earn good money and work under a good boss. They'll get all three at Arsenal. Yes they might also want to win something but if Wenger can convince Ozil to join an Arsenal side that hadn't won anything for eight years, an Arsenal side with Walcott and Podolski on the wings, then can we assume he can convince other big players to join Arsenal now?

I know someone's going to pull me up on the 'good boss' comments so let's address it. Footballers don't view Wenger like Arsenal fans view him. Footballers will often be in a position to ask either their agent or even a team-mate about Wenger on a personal level and the fact we've been able to sign some very big players is probably evidence that they've heard good things about him as a boss. When we ask 'Why would Joe Bloggs sign for us?' we're ignoring the fact that Joe Bloggs isn't an Arsenal fan and therefore only bases his opinion on Wenger on what he has heard about him. Do you not think Lacazette might've noticed if Koscielny and Giroud were b*tching about him on international duty at some point over the last five years? In fact he probably asked their opinion, if he didn't already know enough about Wenger as a manager.

Like it or not, but Wenger remains a very respected figure in football and I don't see why Arsenal would suddenly fail to attract big players just because Ozil and Sanchez are going. If Wenger is here for the next 18 months - and I don't actually want him to be, before ya'll sh*t the bed and start throwing AKB suggestions around - then I'm pretty confident that we won't miss them.

 
Re: Do you realise?
SA-Gunner (IP Logged)
11 January, 2018 18:34
I think we are already seeing some players that don't want to join us. Lemar didn't want to join last summer, and appareantly Wenger has wanted to sign Benzema for over three years with no success. Lacazette wasn't nor is a tier 1 player. And even then, he would have joined Atletico had it not been for the suspension in the transfer market that they had.

 
Re: Do you realise?
Shane (IP Logged)
11 January, 2018 18:48
Lemar did want the Arsenal move. The Monaco director and Wenger said it when the window shut.

 
Re: Do you realise?
MattySadler (IP Logged)
11 January, 2018 19:05
I feel we looked more like a club on the up, or at least trying to be on the up, when we signed Ozil and Alexis, whereas now I don't think anybody can argue that we're a club on the up. Quite the opposite, in fact, and I reckon that is a pretty big factor.

The other thing, of course, is money.

 
Re: Do you realise?
Merlion96 (IP Logged)
11 January, 2018 21:03
Ozil will sign if offered 300,000pw and 10-mil signing-on bonus.

 
Re: Do you realise?
Optimistic Gunner (IP Logged)
11 January, 2018 21:08
Quote:
Shane
then I'm pretty confident that we won't miss them.

Yes we won't miss them because we are still going be quite s.hit and fight for 6th place in the coming seasons with Wenger still in charge

Also, Shane, do you realise, that when we say Wenger is not good enough, we are not comparing him to the whole EPL but only the top 4 clubs and the major clubs in Europe?

Shane, you keep on trying to point out that overall in the big picture Wenger is still a good manager as we are still good team when you compare us to the whole league and Europe and that if Wenger was not good enough then we would be in bottom half of the table or fighting relegation.

Well no s.hit Sherlock.

When we, the gooners who want Wenger gone say that Wenger is not good enough or that he is s.hit, we are not saying that overall he is bad manager, but that he is now a bad manager for Arsenal, club who tells it's fans and the world that we are big club, charges us fans the highest ticket prices in the world, are one of richest clubs in the world, have two multi billionaires as shareholders, a big worldwide fan base, claims to always challenge for major trophies and has the funds to spend big on transfers.

If the club admitted we were now going to be a mediocre club and didn't charge the highest ticket prices then we fans would come to accept it, probably, and will at least say the Wenger is doing a decent job.

But that is not the case, is it?

What really gets us, WOBs, if you want to called it that and also increasing number of fans, is the total lack of ambition, from both the Board and Wenger. Yes Wenger too, because if he really wanted to win a major trophy again, at all costs, then would've spoken out against the Board or Stan and all of us fans would've been totally behind him.

But no, not only is it clear that Wenger is extremely stubborn and only wants to win trophies his way to prove some point, but Wenger also covers for the Board and Stan, hell ii is 100% clear the Wenger is in league with the Board and Stan.

Wenger has a fantastic job at Arsenal. He has total control of the football aspect, is one of the top 5 or top 3 highest paid managers in the world, has absolutely ZERO pressure from the Board and Stan in regards to on-the-pitch success, and as last season showed, Wenger can even decide his own contract situation. Wenger has for more than our supposed Chief Executive, Ivan Gazidis FFS! (Remember that absolute power corrupts absolutely.)

What is also now very noticeable is that we are no longer playing good football. At least before you could say that we still played good football even if we weren't winning anything.

Yes Wenger's defence has been s.hit for 10+ years but for the last few years his midfield has gone from bad to worse.

Our attack has now started to decline too, even with the likes of Alexis and Ozil.

The longer Wenger stays the worse it's gone get. It's inevitable and frankly IMO it is irreversible for Wenger to be successful (i.e. win major trophy, title or CL) again at Arsenal.

Shane, you can keep pointing out how Wenger is not bad manager when compared to clubs below us, but it is now clear for all to see that Wenger is not good enough anymore for a club that needs to win major trophies, especially at Arsenal where he massive power and influcence and is never under any pressure.



http://i.imgur.com/b1SeVpw.png

 
Re: Do you realise?
SandyB (IP Logged)
11 January, 2018 21:59
Give it up this brain damaged shi.t of Wenger worshipping shano, let's discuss alien! Get a binocular instead of hanging from a 70 years old dinosaur's sack n look for the future a far better way to spend time!! (Sm6)

 
Re: Do you realise?
Sanogone (IP Logged)
11 January, 2018 22:40
Ex pros say that winning trophies is the be all and end all of a footballers life.

Look at the flack Theo gets for not having the hunger to win things.

There’s no point trying to become a professional athlete if your not in it to win it. You might as well just play Sunday league and go to your comfortable job.

And Manchester United can attract huge players without CL football because there Manchester f’in United and always have ambition to win!

Alexis and Ozil were sold a lie by Wenger, a lie that said Arsenal is a club that has ambition.

 
Re: Do you realise?
Shane (IP Logged)
11 January, 2018 22:45
Quote:
Optimistic Gunner
Quote:
Shane
then I'm pretty confident that we won't miss them.

Yes we won't miss them because we are still going be quite s.hit and fight for 6th place in the coming seasons with Wenger still in charge

Also, Shane, do you realise, that when we say Wenger is not good enough, we are not comparing him to the whole EPL but only the top 4 clubs and the major clubs in Europe?

Shane, you keep on trying to point out that overall in the big picture Wenger is still a good manager as we are still good team when you compare us to the whole league and Europe and that if Wenger was not good enough then we would be in bottom half of the table or fighting relegation.

Well no s.hit Sherlock.

When we, the gooners who want Wenger gone say that Wenger is not good enough or that he is s.hit, we are not saying that overall he is bad manager, but that he is now a bad manager for Arsenal, club who tells it's fans and the world that we are big club, charges us fans the highest ticket prices in the world, are one of richest clubs in the world, have two multi billionaires as shareholders, a big worldwide fan base, claims to always challenge for major trophies and has the funds to spend big on transfers.

If the club admitted we were now going to be a mediocre club and didn't charge the highest ticket prices then we fans would come to accept it, probably, and will at least say the Wenger is doing a decent job.

But that is not the case, is it?

What really gets us, WOBs, if you want to called it that and also increasing number of fans, is the total lack of ambition, from both the Board and Wenger. Yes Wenger too, because if he really wanted to win a major trophy again, at all costs, then would've spoken out against the Board or Stan and all of us fans would've been totally behind him.

But no, not only is it clear that Wenger is extremely stubborn and only wants to win trophies his way to prove some point, but Wenger also covers for the Board and Stan, hell ii is 100% clear the Wenger is in league with the Board and Stan.

Wenger has a fantastic job at Arsenal. He has total control of the football aspect, is one of the top 5 or top 3 highest paid managers in the world, has absolutely ZERO pressure from the Board and Stan in regards to on-the-pitch success, and as last season showed, Wenger can even decide his own contract situation. Wenger has for more than our supposed Chief Executive, Ivan Gazidis FFS! (Remember that absolute power corrupts absolutely.)

What is also now very noticeable is that we are no longer playing good football. At least before you could say that we still played good football even if we weren't winning anything.

Yes Wenger's defence has been s.hit for 10+ years but for the last few years his midfield has gone from bad to worse.

Our attack has now started to decline too, even with the likes of Alexis and Ozil.

The longer Wenger stays the worse it's gone get. It's inevitable and frankly IMO it is irreversible for Wenger to be successful (i.e. win major trophy, title or CL) again at Arsenal.

Shane, you can keep pointing out how Wenger is not bad manager when compared to clubs below us, but it is now clear for all to see that Wenger is not good enough anymore for a club that needs to win major trophies, especially at Arsenal where he massive power and influcence and is never under any pressure.

I want Wenger gone too mate and I agree with most of that, so I've no idea what you're on about.

The reason it looks like I don't want him gone is because every now and then I have the tenacity to say something positive about the bloke, and people like yourself equate the slightest bit of positivity to mean that I want Wenger to stay at Arsenal forever.

You can want a change in manager without absolutely hating the current one mate. This idea will fly over your head because ya'll have created a toxicity, where you're an enemy of the I Hate Wenger Club unless you pedal balls-to-the-wall melodrama and dress it up as reality.

If you don't believe me then you need only consider the fact you said we're challenging for sixth place. Is this actually true or is it just one of the many things that Arsenal fans exaggerate in order to put an even more negative spin on things? As I said, melodrama, but you can't challenge the realism of anything remotely negative about Arsenal on here.

This thread is a decent example. All I've really said is, 'Lads, relax. Big players will still want to join Arsenal if Ozil and Sanchez go, because we had no big players when those c*nts signed'. I think that's a fair statement, but you used a post that you were saving for De Times or someone.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/01/2018 22:46 by Shane.

 
Re: Do you realise?
Boston Gooner (IP Logged)
11 January, 2018 22:54
Big players may still well sign for us.
But hopefully it won't be under Wenger.



http://i63.tinypic.com/2dt9c3q.jpg

 
Re: Do you realise?
SandyB (IP Logged)
12 January, 2018 00:06
Shano, let’s chat aliens (Sm27). Do you think aliens play football? Can we send Wenger to mars as manager of Mars Rovers? Also, what way you think you deserve better than DeTimes, explain!! (Sm122)
When you continually talk about a predator(read as dinosaur) when there is absolutely nothing fuc.king unknown about Wenger rather than which is future which is unknown means something isn’t right in the head, mate. (Sm105) Take a break from Wenger shi.t n take a deep breath look into far future, mate..seriously. (Sm132)

 
Re: Do you realise?
younghansolo (IP Logged)
12 January, 2018 00:39
On the manager point, players are more interested in Klopp these days. look at Dick Van Dyck. He wanted to play for Klopp to help develop him. As did the ox.

I think players are less in awe of wenger these days but I agree to other players he’s still an asset. Especially young players.

I also think cl and money do play a part. Sure we can still compete but there are now half a dozen clubs in our space where there used to be maybe 3 and to some were the least attractive.

Currently would you join us or Liverpool if you were a 25yr old international for Germany?
Hopefully there enough to go around

 
Re: Do you realise?
litmus (IP Logged)
12 January, 2018 05:05
I saw some of the comments. Shane didn't actually say Wenger IS a good manager, but that Wenger is SEEN by many football players as a well respected manager, and a potentially "good boss", And that Arsenal is still an attractive club to sign for.

The argument wasn't about if Wenger is a good manager (we don't want him here no more), but rather he is still a manager that potentially players would still want to sign for. His point about Ozil (who at that time was one of the most sought after players in world football) wanting to sign and play for Wenger and Arsenal when we havent won anything in 8 years at that time is proof of the accuracy of his point.

George Weah, Henry (regardless of his recent criticism), Pires, Nasri, Cesc have always says good thing about Wenger, that he is almost like a father to each of them, and a decent human being.

But I agree that Wenger has lost his "early years at Arsenal" aura, the invincibles aura, and perhaps players are wary about joining Arsenal due to the perceived lack of ambition. To me signing a marquee name, busting the bank to buy someone the status of a Lewandowski, Bale, a Van Dijk (I'd go for Fekir who is the hottest property in Ligue One which would cost upwards of 60k) would have helped send the right message, but Arsenal don't really see the point doing it as the club always wants to do things the right and logical way. paying crazy money for any player isn't in their thinking.

 
Re: Do you realise?
Ichigo (IP Logged)
12 January, 2018 06:41
Quote:
litmus
but Arsenal don't really see the point doing it as the club always wants to do things the right and logical way. paying crazy money for any player isn't in their thinking.

This is one of the most absurd statements. I don't remember the culb doing anything sensible or logical for more than a decade. Letting the players contracts run down and dithering over transfers when our rivals are trying to get better and improve the playing squad is not a sensible way of running a football culb or even doing business.

 
Re: Do you realise?
Shane (IP Logged)
12 January, 2018 18:23
Quote:
SandyB
Shano, let’s chat aliens (Sm27). Do you think aliens play football? Can we send Wenger to mars as manager of Mars Rovers? Also, what way you think you deserve better than DeTimes, explain!! (Sm122) When you continually talk about a predator(read as dinosaur) when there is absolutely nothing fuc.king unknown about Wenger rather than which is future which is unknown means something isn’t right in the head, mate. (Sm105) Take a break from Wenger shi.t n take a deep breath look into far future, mate..seriously. (Sm132)

Let's chat about other things which don't exist, like your brain, your sanity and your Brazilian passport.

 
Re: Do you realise?
Shane (IP Logged)
12 January, 2018 18:25
Quote:
litmus
I saw some of the comments. Shane didn't actually say Wenger IS a good manager, but that Wenger is SEEN by many football players as a well respected manager, and a potentially "good boss", And that Arsenal is still an attractive club to sign for.
The argument wasn't about if Wenger is a good manager (we don't want him here no more), but rather he is still a manager that potentially players would still want to sign for. His point about Ozil (who at that time was one of the most sought after players in world football) wanting to sign and play for Wenger and Arsenal when we havent won anything in 8 years at that time is proof of the accuracy of his point.

100%. I do think he's a good manager anyway, and I think that's what OG was addressing mainly, but that wasn't the point of the post.

 
Re: Do you realise?
younghansolo (IP Logged)
12 January, 2018 19:07
Except my point that he isn't seen as, as good a manage as Klopp and others these days.

 
Re: Do you realise?
CazOnARola (IP Logged)
13 January, 2018 00:12
Well I'm sure one thing that's going to go against him is his habit of changing your original position you played as kid.
It can work and help you get into first teams of decent teams instead of playing in the championship teams, but that's not what every player wants.
Not every winger is going to be happy becoming a full back like bellerin. Lauren never liked it but wenger managed to convince him.

But if you ask bielik, Maintland niles, i dont think they are happy.
The same goes for Ox. Coquelin as well, never wanted to play DM. That's why he actually has decent ground passes and can play through balls, because his aspirations, even though he didn't have the ability.

The reverse has never if every happened. Mostly he turns attacking players with limitations into defensive players.

Doesn't really help you overcome those limitations which as a 18 year old toy might be looking for.

In the end of if we throw good money, players will join us.

And there are more than one way to win.. We can win ugly. Look at simeone. Watch the 0-0 in the madrid derby and thsts your answer if players don't join us.

We need a manager thats going to work with what he's got and max the player potential which isn't happening under wenger anymore.

Then once we stabilize, we get rid of our version of brendan rogers, and then get our klopp and then a Guardiola if it ever comes to that.

 
Re: Do you realise?
Trent2000 (IP Logged)
13 January, 2018 14:35
The pros to play for Arsenal are: a big club no matter what you say, a great fan base around the world, great city to live in and great wage structure. The players are not stupid and know the expectations at Arsenal are not the same as other clubs, where the pressure for places in the squad are immense and club medals are must. We are what we are until the change comes from the top!!!

I hate it, but who really thought we had a chance at the league?

 
Re: Do you realise?
Shane (IP Logged)
14 January, 2018 03:20
Quote:
younghansolo
Except my point that he isn't seen as, as good a manage as Klopp and others these days.

That's our perception, but our perception is skewed by the fact that Jurgen Klopp isn't our manager. Believe me I could throw up a list of decisions which illustrate that Klopp is a bit of a retard, but we don't know them because we aren't Liverpool fans and his wrongdoings don't enter into our sphere, only his successes. Here's a few:

1) He needed a proper striker and signed Dominic Solanke, which literally isn't that dissimilar to signing Sanogo, is it?

2) He then played Solanke up front against Everton in the 1-1 draw last month, in a game where he also dropped Coutinho, Firmino and Salah. If Wenger did that against Spurs he'd be lynched, and rightly so.

3) He's had FIVE transfer windows to find a better goalkeeper than Mignolet and somehow hasn't managed to get one

4) He's most likely going to lose Emre Can for free in the summer, which might not seem as bad as losing Ozil for free, but Can turned 24 yesterday and will be worth a bomb in two or three years if he plays at Juventus like he did under Rodgers.

5) Sturridge, Lallana and Can have gone backwards since Rodgers was there, in the same way that some players have gone backwards under Wenger. I could name others but they'd be debateable.

6) On what planet was Oxlade-Chamberlain ever worth £40 million?

7) He was still playing f*cking Moreno regularly up until his injury in early December.

We don't take a blind bit of notice to these things because they don't matter to us. We only notice their results and their best players, but if you dig deeper you'll discover that we probably think of Klopp as being a far better football manager than he actually.

He's already a very decent manager in my view, but you can't tell me we don't overrate him. How this relates to transfer targets is, they're presumably going to want to know as much as possible about the manager they might be playing under, so they'll do their homework, weigh up the pros and cons and therefore avoid the one-sided perception that we have by being blissfully unaware of his very long list of faults.

 
Re: Do you realise?
SandyB (IP Logged)
14 January, 2018 04:51
Quote:
Shane
Quote:
younghansolo
Except my point that he isn't seen as, as good a manage as Klopp and others these days.

That's our perception, but our perception is skewed by the fact that Jurgen Klopp isn't our manager. Believe me I could throw up a list of decisions which illustrate that Klopp is a bit of a retard, but we don't know them because we aren't Liverpool fans and his wrongdoings don't enter into our sphere, only his successes. Here's a few:

1) He needed a proper striker and signed Dominic Solanke, which literally isn't that dissimilar to signing Sanogo, is it?

2) He then played Solanke up front against Everton in the 1-1 draw last month, in a game where he also dropped Coutinho, Firmino and Salah. If Wenger did that against Spurs he'd be lynched, and rightly so.

3) He's had FIVE transfer windows to find a better goalkeeper than Mignolet and somehow hasn't managed to get one

4) He's most likely going to lose Emre Can for free in the summer, which might not seem as bad as losing Ozil for free, but Can turned 24 yesterday and will be worth a bomb in two or three years if he plays at Juventus like he did under Rodgers.

5) Sturridge, Lallana and Can have gone backwards since Rodgers was there, in the same way that some players have gone backwards under Wenger. I could name others but they'd be debateable.

6) On what planet was Oxlade-Chamberlain ever worth £40 million?

7) He was still playing f*cking Moreno regularly up until his injury in early December.

We don't take a blind bit of notice to these things because they don't matter to us. We only notice their results and their best players, but if you dig deeper you'll discover that we probably think of Klopp as being a far better football manager than he actually.

He's already a very decent manager in my view, but you can't tell me we don't overrate him. How this relates to transfer targets is, they're presumably going to want to know as much as possible about the manager they might be playing under, so they'll do their homework, weigh up the pros and cons and therefore avoid the one-sided perception that we have by being blissfully unaware of his very long list of faults.
Shano, touch your heart n tell me, Wenger is still the BEST manager the world has ever seen isn’t he? You are like the Trump supporters they call Trump base no matter whatever he says or does are all the best thing ever happened no matter how bizarre or bad it sounds like!! (Sm164)
Just a quick reminder Klopp had 5 transfer windows to sort whatever you think he should have but Wenger had fuc.king 44 windows n you still beat the drum. Didn’t it come to your mind that Klopp actually might not needed a striker coz he already had Fab 4 or whatever they call who scores shi.tload more goals than current Wenger team?

 
Re: Do you realise?
Bergmars (IP Logged)
14 January, 2018 05:28
Look at the shambles at Forest that typifies our outlook how many times does it look as if the team are prepared or set up for the opposition your answer to that will tell you how good a manager we have.



Under new managment

 
Re: Do you realise?
Shane (IP Logged)
14 January, 2018 06:21
Quote:
SandyB
Just a quick reminder Klopp had 5 transfer windows to sort whatever you think he should have but Wenger had fuc.king 44 windows n you still beat the drum. Didn’t it come to your mind that Klopp actually might not needed a striker coz he already had Fab 4 or whatever they call who scores shi.tload more goals than current Wenger team?

The intelligent people here would realise that what I wrote isn't so much a comparison between Wenger and Klopp Sandy, but an illustration that Klopp also gets a lot of things completely wrong and how we are blissfully unaware of his mistakes simply because, unlike Wenger's mistakes, they are not under our microscope. How does someone who thinks aliens built the Seven Wonders of the World not understand this?

 
Re: Do you realise?
CazOnARola (IP Logged)
14 January, 2018 06:25
Klopp isn't the best. He's a busted flush himself and his heavy metal style is what gets players injured.
If you have to make twice the effort as the opposition every single game to win, it will eventually show up.

That doesn't mean the answer is wenger. If klopp had made mistakes, sure we are not asking we should go get him.
But a change is needed since our entire ecosystem right from the youth to thr first team is in a mess.

You don't have to be the worst manager in the world for ppl to not believe in you at all and you have dont have to be the best in the world for ppl to believe in you.

Arsenal ecosystem including the fans and players don't believe in wenger anymore and the reverse is true for klopp. For now.
The moment they lose belief, the liverpool management will fire klopp.

So wenger is not the worst manager in the league by many miles but our team at times does play like it is the most under prepared team in the league.

And snub players have other options, they might not want to walk into this toxicity.
If we get in a manager with a good track record, that pessimism will change to optimisism.
Although of course the ground reality is we are going to slip further away since our youngsters are worse compared to when the likes of coquelin, wilshere, song, cesc, gibbs broke through.

Which means we will need a bigger over haul than was ever needed before



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 14/01/2018 15:37 by CazOnARola.

 
Re: Do you realise?
SandyB (IP Logged)
14 January, 2018 13:35
Quote:
Shane
Quote:
SandyB
Just a quick reminder Klopp had 5 transfer windows to sort whatever you think he should have but Wenger had fuc.king 44 windows n you still beat the drum. Didn’t it come to your mind that Klopp actually might not needed a striker coz he already had Fab 4 or whatever they call who scores shi.tload more goals than current Wenger team?

The intelligent people here would realise that what I wrote isn't so much a comparison between Wenger and Klopp Sandy, but an illustration that Klopp also gets a lot of things completely wrong and how we are blissfully unaware of his mistakes simply because, unlike Wenger's mistakes, they are not under our microscope. How does someone who thinks aliens built the Seven Wonders of the World not understand this?
Now, you are talking, human DNA are the most complex thingy compared to the most complex cpu chips human could make in next 10000 years but still not a single human is flawless even in your ideal football world not even Messi. So if you wanted to find fault you don’t have to go further than your own head but you 1 page long post was originally targeted to younghansolo’s comment “younghansolo
Except my point that he isn't seen as, as good a manage as Klopp and others these days.”... so it was a clear comparison between Klopp n Wenger I guess which you tried to defend the other way my guess!! No? [:wor kid:]


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