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Rasmey is well ahead of Wilshere in their development
Merlion96 (IP Logged)
31 December, 2017 00:06
sked if it had become hard for Southgate to ignore Wilshere, Wenger said: "Of course. Jack has some great qualities, especially when we lose the ball, he's the first one to put the opposition under pressure. He has really improved the defensive side of his game.

"His positional play is very good. You watch football and you see the way he uses the right positions. Football is first about being in the right position on the pitch, where to stand.

[www.skysports.com]

Watching these two players this season, my opinion is that Aaron Ramsey is way ahead of jack Wilshere in their development under Arsene Wenger.

Ramsey is truly the box-to-box runner whereas Jack is good only for a short burst after losing the ball.

Ramsey is the only midfielder who has the knack to drift into goal-scoring position and loose balls in the box seem to attract to him like a magnet.
In a sense, he instinctively move to anticipate the 2nd ball after the 1st ball is won by an Arsenal player in the box.

Like a frustrated Fabregas when he drifted on the blind side into the box in anticipation of a quick one-two, Arsenal players do not have this ability to spot a blind-side running player like the French Spine spotting the blind-side running of Freddy and Pires ... or even a deep-running Vieira carrying the ball into the box and a quick one-two with him clear to shoot at goal.

Jack a creative playmaker?
He seems to lose it and struggling to click with the team.
Still waiting to see one of hsi fmaous reverse pass in his younger days to put a team-mate with a clear run to goal.

In summary, both Ramsey and Wilshere lack Fabregas'ability to scan the pitch, planning plays 2 or 3 steps ahead of opponents and instantly spotting passign channels a split-second before opponents close them down.

Overall Ramsey is well ahead of Wilshere now.

Jack Wilshere should be pragmatic enough to accept his development had stagnant under Wenger and the only way to fulfil his potential is to get out of hsi comfort zone and plays for a manageer who understands him and develops him.

Jack should stop behaving like a complacent Walcott, happy to stay in Emirates Winston Bogarde Suite to see out hsi contract.

Jack should do a Bosman.

 
Re: Rasmey is well ahead of Wilshere in their development
Gunnersingh1 (IP Logged)
31 December, 2017 00:45
No one who understands the game thinks Ramsey is a better footballer than Wilshere.

Ramsey pre injury was a very exciting player, unfortunately now his heads gone and he's shite!

Wilshere needs games but you can already see we're far better with him in the side. He understands the game far more than Ramsey and is on another level technically.

 
Re: Rasmey is well ahead of Wilshere in their development
BootyDaddy (IP Logged)
31 December, 2017 01:04
That's strange, you were the last person I expected to show up in this thread, GS.



Albert Einstein once said: "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

 
Re: Rasmey is well ahead of Wilshere in their development
Merlion96 (IP Logged)
31 December, 2017 02:26
When Pavlov hits the gong ... (Sm6)

 
Re: Rasmey is well ahead of Wilshere in their development
CazOnARola (IP Logged)
31 December, 2017 04:15
Ramsey is better defensively and covering others but he has mostly suffered soft tissue injuries which is never good. It means he is prone to muscular injuries often.

Wilshere on the other hand had stress fractures courtesy wenger and then other players chopping him down.
I think he isn't going into challenges like he used to do maybe he can remain fit. He did play a lot without any injuries when he had first come in until wenger burnt him.

Most likely wenger will revert to ramsey on wings when he comes back. With xhaka s defensive abilities, you might as well play ramsey and wilshere the middle asking wilshere to sit



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 31/12/2017 07:14 by CazOnARola.

 
Re: Rasmey is well ahead of Wilshere in their development
BootyDaddy (IP Logged)
31 December, 2017 09:49
Ramsey isn't better than Wilshire defensively. When Arsenal don't have the ball, Wilshire is like a terrier trying to get it back.

Ramsey gets caught out of position and neglects his defensive duties way too often.

See GS, we do agree on something.



Albert Einstein once said: "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

 
Re: Rasmey is well ahead of Wilshere in their development
Merlion96 (IP Logged)
31 December, 2017 10:50
Quote:
BootyDaddy
Ramsey isn't better than Wilshire defensively. When Arsenal don't have the ball, Wilshire is like a terrier trying to get it back.
Ramsey gets caught out of position and neglects his defensive duties way too often.

See GS, we do agree on something.

Watch Wilshere and see how much he tracks back like Ramsey.

Ramsey-Wilshere pairing does not work simply none of them is offering a defensive shield for Back-4.



'If you want to be unhappy, just compare.' Chinese Proverb

'Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm.' Winston Churchill

 
Re: Rasmey is well ahead of Wilshere in their development
Merlion96 (IP Logged)
31 December, 2017 10:58
So why hasn’t he been more prolific for Arsenal?
Expectations have to be managed.
Transitioning from one league to another is not easy. There’s a huge difference in how football is playing in England compared to France, and Lacazette is going from a team built around him to one that’s built around the creative talents of Mesut Ozil and Alexis Sanchez.
A repeat of the 37 goals he scored last season was never realistic.
However, when you watch him play, it’s clear that Arsenal aren’t getting the best out of him.
There have been games where he’s had just one or two shots before he’s taken off. Arsenal have hardly been presenting chances on a plate for him.
The service to him has been an issue.

Arsenal often ignore the early runs he makes in favour of safer passes. Instead of giving him passes to run on to, we’re always looking to play a short pass into his feet.
Lacazette himself facilitates this by dropping short when a pass is on and getting involved in the build-up play.

However, this also takes him further away from goal, and as obvious as it sounds, that means he’s not in scoring positions when the ball goes into the box.
At the same time, the early pass can be the key to unlocking the deep defences Arsenal often come up against.

Whether he’s making the run or someone else is, that early pass can find a player unmarked in space.

As a result, it can draw defenders out of position and leave spaces for strikers.
It’s no coincidence that many of Lacazette’s goals for Lyon came during counter-attacking situations, when the opposition is short of numbers at the back and leaving too much space.
That is the biggest difference between the two sides.

Arsenal find themselves up against packed, deep defences in almost every game.
This, combined with their favoured possession style, can create a high number of passes around the 18-yard-box, but not many quality opportunities.

Strikers will struggle in such a set-up unless they’re strong in the air, as the aerial route is often a way to break those teams down.
Olivier Giroud has profited from that.

The way Arsenal create and use space is also questionable.

Unless Ramsey is in the team, we often have too many players who are drawn towards the ball.

Without runners in behind, the team can’t stretch an opposition defence. This leaves Arsenal reliant on quick passing combinations to break teams down.

Lacazette is an intelligent enough striker to vary his movement. He can come short or play off the shoulder.

But if he’s coming short, somebody has to be running beyond him. And if he’s playing off the shoulder, the ball has to be played early, or somebody needs to be closer to him in support.

Ramsey’s importance here cannot be understated.

Three of Lacazette’s goals have been set-up by the Welshman, all via passes that are barely longer than 10 yards. His attacking nature and movement can compliment Lacazette. He enjoyed a similar partnership with Nabil Fekir during his time at Lyon.

Arsenal do not need a radical departure from their style to create more chances for their striker. Rather, they need to adapt their play to suit him.

Currently, we’re still playing as if we have Giroud up front, and not someone more mobile.
With any luck, these changes will come with time.

However, they need to come soon, otherwise Lacazette will continue to struggle.
[dailycannon.com]

 
Re: Rasmey is well ahead of Wilshere in their development
CazOnARola (IP Logged)
31 December, 2017 18:50
Quote:
BootyDaddy
Ramsey isn't better than Wilshire defensively. When Arsenal don't have the ball, Wilshire is like a terrier trying to get it back.
Ramsey gets caught out of position and neglects his defensive duties way too often.

See GS, we do agree on something.
He is better tackling and does do better than most of our players barring coquelin. His was evident in his best season for us and also against chelsea this year. Its wengers pbm if he had stopped doing it consistently

 
Re: Rasmey is well ahead of Wilshere in their development
SandyB (IP Logged)
31 December, 2017 19:03
To be honest nothing that wilshere does is above average, Ramsey is way better.

 
Re: Rasmey is well ahead of Wilshere in their development
Gunners R Us (IP Logged)
31 December, 2017 22:24
Ramsey is better than wilshere.

I don't even think it's debatable.

Come back to me when Wilshere wins us 2 cup trophies

 
Re: Rasmey is well ahead of Wilshere in their development
Goofle (IP Logged)
01 January, 2018 06:08
Ramsey is better than Wilshere at about 95% of things you can do on a football pitch.

 
Re: Rasmey is well ahead of Wilshere in their development
younghansolo (IP Logged)
01 January, 2018 09:08
Wilshire is much better at short range interplay and long range passing. Wilshire is also much better at turning and bursting away from players.

Those things are the basis of his game. Vastly different to Ramsey who has better movement and certainly a stronger eye for goal.

 
Re: Rasmey is well ahead of Wilshere in their development
SuperRob (IP Logged)
01 January, 2018 12:40
Wilshere is clearly more talented on the ball. His control and dribbling is top class.

Ramsey is much better physically and in the past was producing much more end product than Wilshere ever has. However without the goals, he's value to the team has dropped.

Wouldn't be unhappy if either or both of them were sold.

I'd like to see both playing consistently at their best in a 4-3-3 with a proper defensive midfielder, but the chances of either staying fit for any length of time is probably smaller than the chances of Wenger buying a decent defensive midfielder.

 
Re: Rasmey is well ahead of Wilshere in their development
MattySadler (IP Logged)
01 January, 2018 16:06
Regardless of whether Wilshere or Ramsey start, we play @#$%& football

 
Re: Rasmey is well ahead of Wilshere in their development
Gunners R Us (IP Logged)
01 January, 2018 17:14
Quote:
SuperRob
I'd like to see both playing consistently at their best in a 4-3-3 with a proper defensive midfielder, but the chances of either staying fit for any length of time is probably smaller than the chances of Wenger buying a decent defensive midfielder.

And that's it right there.

we don't even need to be having this discussion because they can both play in the same team, if the right system was set up for them.

In terms of a system and tactics, this is a @#$%& poor arsenal team.

Fullbacks playing as wingbacks, not knowing how to play the wingback system properly
A midfield two that doesn't give much support defensively or attacking wise
A striker who is thrives off movement and quick counter attacking football, playing in a slow, side-way passing team
Fullbacks and playing CB

I could go on.

Wilshere and ramsey should be playing in a midfield 3 with a DM anchoring them. At this point i would rather see coquelin (until we get a better replacement) get the nod as the DM and 2 of xhaka, wilshere, ramsey playing ahead of him. I strongly believe we will see a more balanced team and may even get more out of xhaka.

 
Re: Rasmey is well ahead of Wilshere in their development
Merlion96 (IP Logged)
03 January, 2018 00:03
Yu may get your wish.
Like when Keown retired, he promoted Kolo Toure to take over.

Why Wenger is so calm over the Ozil situation is that he had a ready-make Wilshere or Xhaka to step into the breach.

As long as Wilshere stays healthy throughout this season, he is the ready-make replacement for Ozil as part of the attacking trio, with both Xhaka-Ramsey behind him and a DCM like promoted Joe WIllock or Maitland-Niles plus defensively, a CB cum DCM like Bielik working between CB and MIDFIELD.

WHy Coquelin was so effective in his one and only best season with us (so far) is that he plays purely as DCM, breaking up plays and winning balls, and defensively, slotted into the space between 2 no. CB when defending.

But Wenger wanted to add more attacking thrusts to Coquelin's game and he had been moving high up on the pitch as another box-to-box midfielder where his shortcomings were exposed - mediocre playmaking ability, slow in spotting passing channels and average passing skills.

Depending on whetehr Ozil stays or leaves PLUS whether Wilshere is durable to last the entire seaosn without a major injury layoff, Wenger still belieives he has all the ingredients of a title-winning team from within ... and as usual, if a "super super quality" player is availble, he will buy regardless of the cost ... proven when he bidded 90-mil for Lemar.

Plus, Wenger will most likely sell Bellerin to Barca after WC2018. After all, Bellerin family ahd all left England in anticipation of his return to Spain.

If Ozil stays, 2018/19 team looks like:

.....................................Cech / Macey / new goalie?


.....Maitland-Niles/Mustafi ... new CB/Koscielny/Chambers/Holding/Monreal ... Kolasinac


..................... new DCM / Joe Willock / Bielik

... Nelson / new RW ......Ramsey ... Xhaka .... Wilshere ..... Ozil / new playmaker

..............................Lacazette


The problem is that Wenger still beleives in promoting from within instead of buying players to fix the glaring weakness in his squad.

SHould be buy a CB?
Not a chance as he is well-stock with them and time to promote Chambers, Holdings and even Bielik to takeover from Ksocielny, Monreal and Mustafi.

SHould he buy a DCM?
Certainly not, if he can promote Joe Willock or ben Sheaf to takeover from Coquelin and Elneny.

Should he buy a RW?
Certainly not, if he can promote Nelson and Jeff Reine-Adelaide.
Plus if he can obtain work permit for Nwakali and Asano next season ...
Wenger is monitoring the development of Nelson, JRA, Zelalem and Iwobi before he makes a move in summer 2018.

Ozil replacement?
Certainly, if Draxler, Lemar and a host of other "ünknown" players are available after WC2018.

Scenario #1
Alexis willing to move to PSG and Draxler willing to cross over.
Then it will be a done deal.

Scenario #2
Tomas Lemar willing to join Arsenal

Scenario #3
Mourinho willing to sell Luke Shaw to us; who will make a great cover as LB.

....................................................................................

Regardless, both Ramsey and Wilshere are key to Wenger's future Arsenal Mark 4.0 for the next 5 years.

Ramsey is at his peak and I doubt whether he can improve further. If he still refuse to sign a new contract extension, I will rather sell him in summer 2018 rather than wathcing another "Älexis & Ozil" drama of him walking out on a Bosman in summer 2019.

Wilshere?
Certianly he will sign a new contract IF - a big IF - he is actually offered one with salary increase.

Depending on Wilshere and Ramsey both signing a new contract extension, then Wenger will build a team around Ramsey-Wilshere axis, grooming youngsters like Nelson, Joe Willock, Maitland-Niles, Nwakali and Jeff Reine-Adelaide as udnerstaudy in senior team.

And of course, Wenger has the funds and will also buy marquee players to replace Alexis and Ozil (if he decided to leave).

If Ozil decided to stay, then Wenger will build the team around Ozil for the next 3 years with Wilshere and Ramsey as bridesmaids; and buys players that can play within his team formation.

But Ozil will not stay if he felt that Wenger is only interested in team-building, promoting youngsters and always plan for a future title-winning team and no chance of winning the title within his career at Arsenal.

And my conclusion is that we are left with Wislhere-Ramsey and his Wenegr Wunderkind 4.0 as the future of Arsenal Fc for the next 5 years.



'If you want to be unhappy, just compare.' Chinese Proverb

'Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm.' Winston Churchill

 
Re: Rasmey is well ahead of Wilshere in their development
CazOnARola (IP Logged)
03 January, 2018 07:03
Xhaka is not a play maker. He is just a decent passer of the ball with a decent shot.

He has no off the ball movement, no ability to create space and find an angle and cannot keep the ball for more than 4 seconds if the need arose.

He has no business paying in this team.

He would be suited more to a team that has a physical player alongside with dribbling abilities like delph and the team is setup to play long ball counter attacks.

The DM wins the back back, passes it to xhaka who finds the winger/striker isolated against the opposition defense.

He should go to Leicester.

 
Re: Rasmey is well ahead of Wilshere in their development
Merlion96 (IP Logged)
04 January, 2018 02:30
Quote:
CazOnARola
Xhaka is not a play maker. He is just a decent passer of the ball with a decent shot.
He has no off the ball movement, no ability to create space and find an angle and cannot keep the ball for more than 4 seconds if the need arose.

He has no business paying in this team.

He would be suited more to a team that has a physical player alongside with dribbling abilities like delph and the team is setup to play long ball counter attacks.

The DM wins the back back, passes it to xhaka who finds the winger/striker isolated against the opposition defense.

He should go to Leicester.

How is Xhaka performance against Chelski?



'If you want to be unhappy, just compare.' Chinese Proverb

'Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm.' Winston Churchill

 
Re: Rasmey is well ahead of Wilshere in their development
CazOnARola (IP Logged)
04 January, 2018 09:43
Quote:
Merlion96
Quote:
CazOnARola
Xhaka is not a play maker. He is just a decent passer of the ball with a decent shot.
He has no off the ball movement, no ability to create space and find an angle and cannot keep the ball for more than 4 seconds if the need arose.

He has no business paying in this team.

He would be suited more to a team that has a physical player alongside with dribbling abilities like delph and the team is setup to play long ball counter attacks.

The DM wins the back back, passes it to xhaka who finds the winger/striker isolated against the opposition defense.

He should go to Leicester.

How is Xhaka performance against Chelski?
Woeful.
Both him and wilshere go to sleep upfield and never come back to collect the ball from defenders.

Both of thrn also don't man the slave in front of the defense when defending with bakayoko frequently getting into that area along with cesc.

The only saving grace for the team was ozil who made all the play from the deep and then ran into the final third to make the difference again.

Whenever the bank was at mustafi s feet, it was like playing with 9 men, with alexis and ozil having to drop deep to collect and move the ball forward.

Im sorry, wilshere is no where near the player he was. He seems to not run at all to try and get into receiving positions.

I don't blame xhaka cause he really doesn't have anything m can't dribble or turn the marker and doesn't have quick movement either to get into good recieving positions 100%.

He can only bet the ball from the defense 6 or 7/10 times which is woeful of your are a CM linking up play.

Might as well play coquelin who hides when we are in possession but can atleast defend


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