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Can you blame Ozil for leaving?
Shane (IP Logged)
02 December, 2017 22:54
That's the question everybody's going to be asking, and the answer is an emphatic YES. We love heroising players who leave the club because in a lot of cases they're clearly too good for what we can offer, but don't make the mistake of thinking this applies to Ozil because it absolutely doesn't.

I'm so very disappointed in him. Usually it's because he was horrendous, but on this occasion I'm disappointed because he was outstanding, just like he was against Tottenham. Suddenly Ozil is playing with a bit of heart and rather cynically I think it's probably because January is only around the corner. On the back of his performances tonight and against Spurs, he'll have certainly attracted quite a few big clubs who probably would've passed up the chance had he not been so good in those games. He is rebuilding his reputation at an all too convenient time.

Question is, can you blame him for wanting to join a bigger club in January? Yes, absolutely. You couldn't blame Fabregas or Van Persie when they left, or Sanchez when he does leave. These were lads who were obviously being held back by the inadequacies of the team as a whole. That's not the case with Ozil, who has suddenly gone from the worst big-game player in the team to the best.

He has gone from being a complete apparition in these type of games to being a leader, someone who fights, someone who tracks back, someone who uses the ball like only he can going forward, and all because suddenly he has something to gain by doing so.

I respect him wanting to join a bigger club - no qualms about that at all - but what I can't and won't respect is the fact that he didn't care about Arsenal's results in these games when he stood to gain nothing from helping the team achieve those results other than recognition from the fans. And that's pretty selfish.

Arsenal haven't held Ozil back - he has held us back and any fan tempted to ask 'Well can you blame him for leaving?' needs to ask themselves if Ozil has taken Arsenal as far as he can take them, like Henry, Van Persie, Fabregas or Sanchez did. If the answer is no, and you feel Ozil could've done a lot more for Arsenal in his four-year spell here, then you can't beat the 'Can you blame him?' drum I'm afraid.

 
Re: Can you blame Ozil for leaving?
mapleleafgooner (IP Logged)
02 December, 2017 23:12
No.

 
Re: Can you blame Ozil for leaving?
Ichigo (IP Logged)
03 December, 2017 02:34
Totally agree with Shane on this

 
Re: Can you blame Ozil for leaving?
CazOnARola (IP Logged)
03 December, 2017 02:38
Shane, your should have realized how much of difference a mobile forward line makes.
Giroud is not the type of player ozil can link up with.
Its not just the contract thing. He is being played with the right people and in the right position (not on the wings).

You guys are underestimating how well lacazette is playing.

He is able to hold the ball up under such intense pressure, is hardly offside. He's no henry but my god we've missed a mobile striker since rvp left.

And everyone except wenger can see we don't have the personnel to play 5-2-3.
But we have an amazing group if we wanna play 4-3-3



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/12/2017 02:45 by CazOnARola.

 
Re: Can you blame Ozil for leaving?
Trent2000 (IP Logged)
03 December, 2017 03:09
I can not blame him for wanting to leave, Wenger let this happen with the contracts and now Ozil and Alexis control the situation. If it was not Wenger, then the Arsenal hierarchy are to be blamed. What is interesting is that Ozil looked pretty average for him last season but picks it up when he is in the shop window himself. Alexis on the other hand already has his deal in place and is just taking it easy to save himself for next season, so he can play with the Champions next season injury free and fresh.Pretty sick to have the players run the team like these two have, which we can only blame ourselves.

 
Re: Can you blame Ozil for leaving?
MattySadler (IP Logged)
03 December, 2017 07:49
I can't blame anyone for wanting to leave. Wenger will never do enough to win another title. Anyone with genuine ambition should be wanting out.

Maybe Ozil is suddenly upping his performance because he is trying to attract another club, yeah, but I don't think the team is always best set up to our player's strengths. Ozil currently has Lacazette, Alexis and Ramsey to work with.

 
Re: Can you blame Ozil for leaving?
Shane (IP Logged)
03 December, 2017 13:11
Quote:
Trent2000
I can not blame him for wanting to leave, Wenger let this happen with the contracts and now Ozil and Alexis control the situation. If it was not Wenger, then the Arsenal hierarchy are to be blamed. What is interesting is that Ozil looked pretty average for him last season but picks it up when he is in the shop window himself. Alexis on the other hand already has his deal in place and is just taking it easy to save himself for next season, so he can play with the Champions next season injury free and fresh.Pretty sick to have the players run the team like these two have, which we can only blame ourselves.

What should we blame Wenger and the club for? For not giving into Ozil's demands and paying him £300,000 a week? That would've been an utter travesty. That would've been throwing a lot more good money - £15 million a year, to be specific - after bad money, because Ozil wouldn't be playing this well had he been signed up until 2021. That's the point.

This is absolutey not a player who did all he could to help Arsenal win major titles. This is not a player who gave 100% every week. This is not a player who was constantly let down by his team-mates. This is not a player who deserves your best wishes when he joins somebody else in January.

We shouldn't even boo Ozil if he goes to Man United and plays against us at Old Trafford, nor should we applaud him. We should treat him like he doesn't exist and that's because 70% of the time he f*cking didn't.

 
Re: Can you blame Ozil for leaving?
Trent2000 (IP Logged)
03 December, 2017 15:16
Then why did we not try and sell him, he has the power now.

Maybe no offers, but when he is on, he can be devastating.

I understand your point Shane.

The same with Alexis.

 
Re: Can you blame Ozil for leaving?
SandyB (IP Logged)
03 December, 2017 15:24
I didn’t see him pulling trees against ManU. Can’t even take proper free kick.

 
Re: Can you blame Ozil for leaving?
Gunnersingh1 (IP Logged)
03 December, 2017 18:08
Quote:
Shane
Quote:
Trent2000
I can not blame him for wanting to leave, Wenger let this happen with the contracts and now Ozil and Alexis control the situation. If it was not Wenger, then the Arsenal hierarchy are to be blamed. What is interesting is that Ozil looked pretty average for him last season but picks it up when he is in the shop window himself. Alexis on the other hand already has his deal in place and is just taking it easy to save himself for next season, so he can play with the Champions next season injury free and fresh.Pretty sick to have the players run the team like these two have, which we can only blame ourselves.

What should we blame Wenger and the club for? For not giving into Ozil's demands and paying him £300,000 a week? That would've been an utter travesty. That would've been throwing a lot more good money - £15 million a year, to be specific - after bad money, because Ozil wouldn't be playing this well had he been signed up until 2021. That's the point.

This is absolutey not a player who did all he could to help Arsenal win major titles. This is not a player who gave 100% every week. This is not a player who was constantly let down by his team-mates. This is not a player who deserves your best wishes when he joins somebody else in January.

We shouldn't even boo Ozil if he goes to Man United and plays against us at Old Trafford, nor should we applaud him. We should treat him like he doesn't exist and that's because 70% of the time he f*cking didn't.

The most assists and chances created since he's been in the league.

People like s hit stats but they ain't ones to be sniffed at!

 
Re: Can you blame Ozil for leaving?
Shane (IP Logged)
03 December, 2017 19:40
Ramsey's ahead of Hazard in both of those lists mate, and level with Coutinho in terms of assists.

 
Re: Can you blame Ozil for leaving?
Merlion96 (IP Logged)
03 December, 2017 21:09
It is called negotiation, not winning CL Cup.

His agent is asking for £300,000 a week, plus a signing-on bonus of about £10-million.

Like Thomas Lemar where we initially offered £35-mil+ and then on 31-Aug, desperately offered £92-mil, Ozil will sign-on in summer if Wenger caved in and met his agent's price.

 
Re: Can you blame Ozil for leaving?
Gunnersingh1 (IP Logged)
03 December, 2017 21:41
Quote:
Shane
Ramsey's ahead of Hazard in both of those lists mate, and level with Coutinho in terms of assists.

Since Hazard and Coutinho have been here? Doubt it!!

 
Re: Can you blame Ozil for leaving?
Boston Gooner (IP Logged)
03 December, 2017 21:54
I can see Ozil and Sanchez leaving now.
And if Lacazette turns up trumps it will be the same with him in time.
Club has no ambition.



http://i63.tinypic.com/2dt9c3q.jpg

 
Re: Can you blame Ozil for leaving?
Shane (IP Logged)
03 December, 2017 22:21
Quote:
Gunnersingh1
Since Hazard and Coutinho have been here? Doubt it!!

No since the start of the 2013-14 campaign, Ozil's first season, which is what I thought we were basing it on. But here's the stats between Ramsey, Coutinho and Hazard since the last two have been in England:

Hazard:
Big chances created - 41
Assists - 37
Minutes played - 14,817

Ramsey:
Big chances created - 40
Assists - 30
Minutes played - 10,818

Coutinho:
Big chances created - 47
Assists - 33
Minutes played - 10,975

Cazorla:
Big chances created - 43
Assists - 35
Minutes played - 10,808

Note: Hazard has played the equivalent of 44.4 full Premier League games more than Ramsey.

 
Re: Can you blame Ozil for leaving?
Shane (IP Logged)
03 December, 2017 22:45
It's worth pointing out that I don't think Ramsey is in any way comparable to Hazard or Coutinho or Cazorla, but relying on those two stats to gauge certain players' influence can be hugely misleading.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/12/2017 22:45 by Shane.

 
Re: Can you blame Ozil for leaving?
CazOnARola (IP Logged)
04 December, 2017 05:37
Quote:
SandyB
I didn’t see him pulling trees against ManU. Can’t even take proper free kick.
Are you referring to the one ashley young cleared off the line? Cause de gea was beaten and that's a goal on most days.

 
Re: Can you blame Ozil for leaving?
CazOnARola (IP Logged)
04 December, 2017 05:43
Quote:
Shane
Quote:
Gunnersingh1
Since Hazard and Coutinho have been here? Doubt it!!

No since the start of the 2013-14 campaign, Ozil's first season, which is what I thought we were basing it on. But here's the stats between Ramsey, Coutinho and Hazard since the last two have been in England:

Hazard:
Big chances created - 41
Assists - 37
Minutes played - 14,817

Ramsey:
Big chances created - 40
Assists - 30
Minutes played - 10,818

Coutinho:
Big chances created - 47
Assists - 33
Minutes played - 10,975

Cazorla:
Big chances created - 43
Assists - 35
Minutes played - 10,808

Note: Hazard has played the equivalent of 44.4 full Premier League games more than Ramsey.
Very good post. Ppl have different roles in different teams. Players around u influence the stats a lot as well. Am sure neymar s stats in CL competition (french league is a little weak) will improve over his barca CL stats since now he is the main man.

But this also highlights how ramsey is better in the final third than ppl think.
Also countinho goals scored stats will likely differ at barca since there are a lot of other players who occupy this goal scoring positions and he might become more of a creator there

 
Re: Can you blame Ozil for leaving?
Hank0404 (IP Logged)
04 December, 2017 09:07
Not his fault for individual mistakes obviously, but it's more complicated than that.
The way we are set up when he's our playmaker makes our back 4 (3) more vulnerable against good opposition.
Xhaka beeing in there doesn't help either.

 
Re: Can you blame Ozil for leaving?
SandyB (IP Logged)
04 December, 2017 12:53
Quote:
CazOnARola
Quote:
SandyB
I didn’t see him pulling trees against ManU. Can’t even take proper free kick.
Are you referring to the one ashley young cleared off the line? Cause de gea was beaten and that's a goal on most days.
No I was referring to never saw him scoring a free kick goal although I don’t watch all the Arsenal games now a days but probably he’s rare number 10 who isn’t proficient in this department.

 
Re: Can you blame Ozil for leaving?
Ichigo (IP Logged)
04 December, 2017 15:06
I have a feeling that we will win our next 5 league games, beating the @#$%& out of the high flying Liverpool along the way and silence all the critics.

 
Re: Can you blame Ozil for leaving?
Optimistic Gunner (IP Logged)
04 December, 2017 23:08
Quote:
Ichigo
silence all the critics.

the only way to silence all the critics to win either the title or the CL, nothing else



http://i.imgur.com/b1SeVpw.png

 
Re: Can you blame Ozil for leaving?
CazOnARola (IP Logged)
05 December, 2017 01:03
Quote:
SandyB
Quote:
CazOnARola
Quote:
SandyB
I didn’t see him pulling trees against ManU. Can’t even take proper free kick.
Are you referring to the one ashley young cleared off the line? Cause de gea was beaten and that's a goal on most days.
No I was referring to never saw him scoring a free kick goal although I don’t watch all the Arsenal games now a days but probably he’s rare number 10 who isn’t proficient in this department.

Yeah only one i remember is liverpool. Ozils isn't a natural goal scorer. Takes horrible penalties as well.
His shooting is like alexis's passing consistency.

Never seen someone so good on the ball but being the weight and direction of the pass as alexis.

With ozil its vice versasmiling smiley

 
Re: Can you blame Ozil for leaving?
younghansolo (IP Logged)
05 December, 2017 10:47
I don't blame him but I can't wait to see the back of him. Sick of these mercenaries no matter how good they are

 
Re: Can you blame Ozil for leaving?
Shane (IP Logged)
05 December, 2017 22:32
You should blame him. So should everybody. We haven't held this bloke back. Not one iota.

He's held himself back, because had he performed to this standard, especially in must-win games, on a consistent basis then he wouldn't even be here. He'd have joined a bigger club two years ago because that's what happens at Arsenal when you're clearly a million miles better than your team-mates, you get a big move away eventually and the fact that we've been able to keep this bloke for four and a half years, without any interference might I add, is the damning evidence that he hasn't done it at Arsenal.

And if he hasn't done it at Arsenal, why do we pretend that, like Fabregas, Van Persie and Sanchez, we've been holding him back? As I said, he has held himself back in a major way, and therefore has held Arsenal back in a major way and such players don't deserve the 'Ah well he gave it his all' type of attitude that fans begrudgingly afford to the big players who leave.

Ozil arrived as a big name and that's what he will leave as. Remember that if he was a truly big player for us he'd be long gone already.

 
Re: Can you blame Ozil for leaving?
Kalela (IP Logged)
06 December, 2017 01:02
No. I can't blame any player for leaving while Wenger is around and that is going as far back as Ashley Cole. Okay maybe I am pushing it a little there.



We don't have anybody with 20 goals in the league, so that is a handicap - Arsene Wenger

 
Re: Can you blame Ozil for leaving?
younghansolo (IP Logged)
07 December, 2017 13:40
I can blame him for thinking he's bigger than the club bebause he's not. I don't blame him for wanting to get away from Wenger though or the executives


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