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Remember when... (The Real Wenger Legacy?)
Goofle (IP Logged)
01 September, 2017 18:30
Arsenal had Henry, Vieira, Bergkamp, Campbell, Pires, Cole etc. and didn't retain a title against some fairly average Manchester United teams?

Thierry Henry only has two Premier League Titles. TWO!

Wenger hasn't "lost it", as many of his clinging fans would have you know. He never had it. He just came around at the right time and managed to pull out a few gems.

You think Alex Ferguson wouldn't have retained a title with Thierry Henry playing up top? Not to mention his truly horrendous record in Europe.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 08/09/2017 14:30 by Padre Pio.

 
Re: Remember when...
SandyB (IP Logged)
01 September, 2017 18:38
Henry was classic artist, I'm so glad that Neymar is picking up few tricks or two from Henry's book.. the sudden burst of pace trademark Henry now lives in Neymar.
I agree with Tom, Wenger never had it.

 
Re: Remember when...
Goofle (IP Logged)
01 September, 2017 18:44
Neymar is a weird comparison.

 
Re: Remember when...
SandyB (IP Logged)
01 September, 2017 18:55
Quote:
Goofle
Neymar is a weird comparison.
Actually Graf comparison.. not everything is same coz players from different era can't be compared but basic is same. Neymar on his own right is a mega star now so it's Apple to Apple comparison too. Only thing the I'd say Henry under performed a bit at highest stage of football but not entirely his fault though.

 
Re: Remember when...
Optimistic Gunner (IP Logged)
01 September, 2017 19:06
Wenger also couldn't crack the CL with that team full of world class players.

Plus one of the main reasons we even made it to the one and only CL final was because of the defence, which as we know is not Wenger's department and that defence was coached by Keown, who was brought on during the 2005/2006 season to help out Pat Rice.



http://i.imgur.com/b1SeVpw.png

 
Re: Remember when...
mike was right (IP Logged)
01 September, 2017 21:32
I was thinking the exact same thing over the years. With the squad he had, they were leaps and bounds ahead of an U, but Wenger's penny pinching didn't bolster the squad after winning it in 2001, the best squad they ever had IMO and just needed a bit of freshening up to stay ahead of Ferguson. Wenger never learned to stay ahead, and failed miserably in Europe. If Ferguson the cheat had had that squad they would have won the league 5 years in a row and grabbed at least 2 to 3 CL pots on the way. We've never been lucky with a top squad with our managers. Graham made a balls of it as well, sold off all those great players like Thomas and never built from a position of strength to stay ahead. That was mainly because he was a corrupt con man IMO, whereas Wenger is just an idiot who if he had half the brain the AKB's think he has, could have won ten times the amount of silverware. To put this clown into perspective, since last winning the EPL, Chelsea have had a manager win it twice, sack him, while Wenger fumbles about winning the top 4 trophy, while Chavs bring back the miserable one, win it again, to go with the one they one they won while the miserable one was away, sack him, while Wenger keeps getting that top 4 trophy, and Chelsea win it again, throw in Man City twice, even @#$%& Leicester, Man U since 2004, to the present day while the genius professor has now managed to fail for CL qualification and will remain that way for the foreseeable future.

 
Re: Remember when...
Bergmars (IP Logged)
01 September, 2017 21:50
Wouldn't disagree Tom



DB10,the best.

 
Re: Remember when...
SuperRob (IP Logged)
01 September, 2017 21:54




Good times

 
Re: Remember when...
SuperRob (IP Logged)
01 September, 2017 21:56



 
Re: Remember when...
Goofle (IP Logged)
01 September, 2017 22:06
[www.dailymotion.com]

The only Vieira vid you need. Mine.

 
Re: Remember when...
Shane (IP Logged)
01 September, 2017 22:47
Good video mate. A lot of work must've went into it, given it's chronological.

 
Re: Remember when...
Boston Gooner (IP Logged)
01 September, 2017 23:30
We truly did have star players them days.



http://i63.tinypic.com/2dt9c3q.jpg

 
Re: Remember when...
Padre Pio (IP Logged)
02 September, 2017 00:05
It would appear that sacking managers makes for a great incentive scheme, and wins far more leagues than rewarding the wsame bloke with over inflated bonuses for 21 years



- until Wenger moves on, they'll always be the also-rans in the major competitions. A club in elite purgatory. Always good enough to make it to the big race, never fast or smart enough to push over the finish line in first place. That's all about the manager. Until he changes, Arsenal fans will continue to celebrate glorious failure.

 
Re: Remember when...
Merlion96 (IP Logged)
02 September, 2017 00:56
“I believe when you have a core of British players, it’s always easier to keep them together. We are delighted that these five young players have all signed new long-term contracts. The plan is to build a team around a strong basis of young players in order to get them to develop their talent at the club.”
Arsene Wenger, 2012.

Trying to make silk purses out of sow's ears.

Arsene Wenger trying to follow Rinus Michels' Ajax Model of Team Building from 2006 to 2013 from academy to senior squad with the homegrown players growing up together.

1 - Walcott
2 - OX
3 - Wilshere
4 - Ramsey
5 - Gibbs
6 - Jenkinson
7 - Kyle Bartley
8 - Benik Afobe
9 - Lansbury
10- Isaac Hayden

Why he failed with the French Spine who gave the name of November Blip is that they always came unstuck during the wintry months with Ferguson, Pulis and Big Mouth knew how to get into their faces with physically intimidation, kicking and hacking them to prevent them from playing.

Wenger constantly moaned about the state of the pitches which was deliberately heavily watered-down to stop his passing game and teams knowing how to kick them and disrupt their passing rhythm.

Secondly, Wenger always played injured players and over-used them that to such an extend that they are easily knackered and injury-prone from February onwards. Hence, during crucial cup semi-final period of march/April, his depleted squad of over-used players cannot muster enough energy to fight on.

E.g. I think it was 2004 when an injured Henry was rushed back from Iceland and then got injured in FA semi-final and following week, promptly got knocked out of CL Cup qtr-final by Chelski ... our best chance to win CL Cup against Monaco in semi and Mourinho Porto in final.

Thirdly, he always had a thin squad, overtly dependable on a few key players and really does not know how to manage big ego like how Ferguson, Mourinho and Conte did ... maintaining at least 2 world-class players in every position.

Fourthly, Like Denmark Euro1992, his team of Dutch Master Bergy and French Flair caught Premier League by surprise before they caught up and devised kicking and hacking to stop Arsenal from playing.

Fifthly, Arsene Wenger got lucky. He inherited Bergy and with his 1990s intimated knowledge of the 1990s Golden Era of French Football, he was 2 or 3 steps ahead of premier league managers and signed Vieira, ANelka, Petit, Henry, Pires and Wiltord.
Plus without David Dein's perseverance and bloody-mindness, he can never signed Sol Campbell.

His brilliant financial management skills during the Emirates' construction era, his luck and motivation skills in forging a Top-4 team for 20 consecutive seasons are what got him this 2-year extension.

You all are looking from a football fan's point of view.
By in this 21st Century, Professional Football had gone the way of American professional sport business and a manger like Arsene Wenger is worth his weight in gold to Silent Stan and other struggling clubs trying to reduce their deficits. This hypothesis will be proven by our deprived neighbor as to how they can build a Top-4 team and at the same time, managing their 800-mil debt burden of the 61,000-seater Kentucky Henhouse with their commercial revenues half of that Arsenal's.

Whatever Arsene Wenger's legacy is, he was the right Arsenal manager from 2005/06 to 2012/13 to dig us out of the financial hole.
Whatever his 2-year contract extension is, I will give him the benefit of reasonable doubt that he is a honorable man whose intention is whether he is successful or not, he will not do a "Ferguson" buying players with a last shot of glory but instead to build a strong squad of young players and a young squad for the next manager to take over with a strong foundation to bring Arsenal to the next level.

I still believe that there is an unwritten agreement that if Wenger cannot bring Arsenal back to Top-4, there will be a mutual parting with him going upstairs and a new manager for 2018/19 season. I cannot fault him for his love of Arsenal FC like a doting grandpa.



Ralph Waldo Emerson: "Sow a thought and you reap an action; sow an act and you reap a habit; sow a habit and you reap a character; sow a character and you reap a destiny"

 
Re: Remember when...
Goofle (IP Logged)
02 September, 2017 01:19
Quote:
Shane
Good video mate. A lot of work must've went into it, given it's chronological.

It was a pain, but I used the season reviews in order so that made it easier tbf.

 
Re: Remember when...
BootyDaddy (IP Logged)
02 September, 2017 10:30
For the apparent messiah that some claim Wenger to be, it's one of footballs greatest illusions as his track record is rather c.rap when you actually think about it logically.

He has won 3 (yes 3) PL titles in 21 years. That's an average of 1 every 7 years. We haven't even challenged for the title in more years than I care to remember either.

Big clubs who actually want to win things sack managers after 1 or 2 years of baron title challenges. But Wenger gets to do it once every half a dozen years or so on average.

As for the CL, well it's just rather embarrassing really isn't it. Never won it and only reached one final in 21 years.

Wenger is a c.rap manager.



Albert Einstein once said: "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

 
Re: Remember when...
CazOnARola (IP Logged)
02 September, 2017 14:04
He wasn't just lucky. He was ahead of the curve then. Now ppl have caught up and he's 68. He has done a decent job at coaching throughout 2005-2011. He reverted to the midfield slow engine of cesc etc like Spain before a lot of other managers. Converted rvp to a world class 9.5, adebayor, hleb, list is quite high. Out performed some of his peers in epl who spent a lot more.

He was good at managing players and coaching but never at managing a squad. His inability to sign schwarzer, sticking with almunia, bendtner, squillacci etc cost us the league a few times.
He has his deficiencies, but he could have won the league a couple of times with a couple of more decent players in his squad. A cb, a striker, a keeper etc.

His game came up in 2013 onwards when football in general started getting more inflow of money.
Even the smaller clubs started buying players and the market became more competitive. The strategy followed from 2005 onwards till now was no longer viable as even the bottom clubs are fiercely competitive.
Add to that, once he started signing senior players like ozil, sanchez, he possiblly lost the ability to manage such stars.
It could be his age as that happens in all professional areas but it could also be a decade of managing relative unknown /young players who leave once they reach the prima donna stage.
He doesn't know how to deal with contract rebels cause well his strategy has been to sell his best players /rebels since 2005.
I don't think going the season unbeaten was fluke. He even integrated players like reyes. He did sign sanchez who had never scored the same kind of goals at barca.

He is no longer the man for the job and hasnt been good almost 4 years now but he would have won the league a couple of more times at least if we didn't sell our best players from 2005-2010.

He should have left when we won the FA cup against hull city or when Leicester won the league



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/09/2017 14:16 by CazOnARola.

 
Re: Remember when...
CazOnARola (IP Logged)
02 September, 2017 14:12
Quote:
Goofle
Arsenal had Henry, Vieira, Bergkamp, Campbell, Pires, Cole etc. and didn't retain a title against some fairly average Manchester United teams?
Thierry Henry only has two Premier League Titles. TWO!

Wenger hasn't "lost it", as many of his clinging fans would have you know. He never had it. He just came around at the right time and managed to pull out a few gems.

You think Alex Ferguson wouldn't have retained a title with Thierry Henry playing up top? Not to mention his truly horrendous record in Europe.
You hit a very imp point. Ferguson would have won more, but he would probably have never played henry uptop.

Imho Arsene did well with players like henry/pires/cesc/denilson/hleb/toure/adebayor/koshielny.

In his own words "when you put pires on the left side with the entire field in his view, he became a completely different player"

He had tarnished his own legacy for the past 5 years, but i think he did very well in the years before even if he wasn't the best. He was still a world class manager in 2008. Football had moved on, and he had failed to do so in the past 4 years.
He milked the French Revolution, probably kept up reasonably with the Spanish revolution but came unstuck against the German revolution era

 
Re: Remember when...
Padre Pio (IP Logged)
02 September, 2017 14:48
Leaving after we beat Chelsea would have been a great exit



- until Wenger moves on, they'll always be the also-rans in the major competitions. A club in elite purgatory. Always good enough to make it to the big race, never fast or smart enough to push over the finish line in first place. That's all about the manager. Until he changes, Arsenal fans will continue to celebrate glorious failure.

 
Re: Remember when...
younghansolo (IP Logged)
02 September, 2017 16:17
Quote:
Padre Pio
Leaving after we beat Chelsea would have been a great exit

I think he'll regret that too. That was his last chance to leave in his terms, to be remembered the right way.

Sadly now, people will remember the failures and many will question if he ever actually had it. Like this thread.

 
Re: Remember when...
Shane (IP Logged)
02 September, 2017 17:11
I think he definitely had *it* at one point or the other. There's nothing fortuitous about what Arsenal achieved in his first nine years.

Problem is, the landscape of English football changed dramatically and a bloke who once offered Sheffield United an FA Cup rematch in the interests of being fair was always going to get left behind in a division where fairness swiftly flew out the window after Chelsea and Manchester City started buying success, rightly or wrongly.

He's a busted flush now, an old dog who needs shooting, but he was quite good at what he did once upon a time.

 
Re: Remember when...
SandyB (IP Logged)
02 September, 2017 17:19
Quote:
Shane
I think he definitely had *it* at one point or the other. There's nothing fortuitous about what Arsenal achieved in his first nine years.
Problem is, the landscape of English football changed dramatically and a bloke who once offered Sheffield United an FA Cup rematch in the interests of being fair was always going to get left behind in a division where fairness swiftly flew out the window after Chelsea and Manchester City started buying success, rightly or wrongly.

He's a busted flush now, an old dog who needs shooting, but he was quite good at what he did once upon a time.
A time when dragons used to fly, dragon glass wasn't invented that was the time shano, now he's a fraud flying on a time machine

 
Re: Remember when...
Optimistic Gunner (IP Logged)
02 September, 2017 17:23
The point is Shane, is that even at his best Wenger was not better than likes of SAF and Ancelotti. This can been cearly in the fact Wenger even at his best and with the best team couldn't win the CL.



http://i.imgur.com/b1SeVpw.png

 
Re: Remember when...
celine dion (IP Logged)
02 September, 2017 18:53
Yes I dont think its reasonable to dismiss what Wenger achieved pre-2008.

You have to look at what he did with the team he inherited within his first year. Wright, Merson, Bergkamp, platt, Dixon, Winterburn were playing very very decent football within about 4 months of him being there, and they werent, prior to that. He didnt add a huge amount of players to start with, but they just started pinging the ball about like they were reading from a different book to the rest of the league.

Although I think people crediting him with the discovery of modern sports science, making people eat broccoli etc, is a bit over the top, as sport was coming round this way of thinking anyway, I still think his achievements pre-2005 were outstanding.

Ive always though Wenger is very good at some things and very bad at others. But in his first 8 years the things he was good at, largely getting players super fit, putting them into his system and then letting them express themselves, was a kind of perfect storm.

Firstly he only had Man United to worry about. Some years they were better than him and some years the weren't. Secondly france produced some of the best footballers on the planet during a 10 year period at that time, hence their world cup and euro wins, and it was fairly easy for him as a Frenchman with a very decent reputation and a club able to spend decent money on wages, to convince people to come and play for him. Plus early on he had George Grahams defence, although he did manage to construct his own defence for 2004 with Ralph Lauren Ashley Cole and Toure and he has to take credit for that because it wasn't a defence anyone saw him coming up with. I tend not to get too excited about the 'invincible' achievement itself because Grahams 1991 team came within 1 goal of achieving the same and if Van Nistelrooy hadn't missed a penalty it wouldnt have happened. Likewise, they drew that many matches that if Rio Ferdinand hadn't been suspended for the entire season they may not even have won the title.

However, between 1997 and 2004 he got a football team playing some of the best most brutally attacking football on the planet and won trophies, yes, he didnt always retain them but he was up against THE best manager in the history of football, so why would he have done.

He also did a very decent job up until 2008 actually. I think 2008 was when he started to lose it. He put together a very capable team, the Hleb Rosicky Flamini Adebayor Fabregas attacking line up was murdering teams, particularly away from home, but this is where his little blind spots started to creep in. They had been there previously, when Seaman stayed too long for example, or he persisted with Pascal Cyan when he simply should not have been at the club. But this time it got silly. When we played Liverpool in the league in 2008 between the two CL games he rested half the team and only drew against them, with players like Bendtner and Traore playing. He only lost the league by 3 points, so this looks like a frankly ridiculous thing to do in hindsight. I think this is where he started to get delusions of invincibility and to really believe his own hype. Its got worse as the time has gone on and Wenger post 2012 is a total waste of space.

Theres no reason why this should be surprising. Kenny Dalglish had Liverpool playing some of the best football England had ever seen in 1986 and 1988 but nobody rated him much as a manager 20 years after that. Brian Clough was the best manager in the world in 1979, what he achieved with a comparatively provincial team like Nottingham Forest is probably on a level with what Wenger did with the invincible. But he eventually took Forest down by refusing to adapt to modern football. They have never recovered from it. The game changes, tactics change, the market changes. Wenger is older, more obstinate. I am afraid he has allowed himself to become a tool of big business.

But he certainly had something between 1997-2006, if you have started to forget, load up some old videos.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/09/2017 18:56 by celine dion.

 
Re: Remember when... (The Real Wenger Legacy?)
Optimistic Gunner (IP Logged)
02 September, 2017 23:38
Yes 1997-2005 Wenger was certainly a ginus but even then he wasn't the best ever like AKBs claim he was.

Especially when it came to europe, Wenger always felt short.



http://i.imgur.com/b1SeVpw.png

 
Re: Remember when... (The Real Wenger Legacy?)
Goofle (IP Logged)
03 September, 2017 04:41
I think some people are confusing his ability to find and develop talent with managerial ability. I'll never argue that Wenger wasn't great at those things, but what he did with those players wasn't remarkable or great, rather just what you would expect of ant half decent coach.

 
Re: Remember when... (The Real Wenger Legacy?)
CazOnARola (IP Logged)
03 September, 2017 06:07
I disagree. Lauren never reached to play right back. He wanted to be a right back, but wenger was right in telling him what his strengths were. Henry wasnt being played as a striker. Pires was played in the right many times for France as well. Ashley cole was converted as well.
He has told coquelin the same thing that your strength is your interceptions and not other things, and coquelin listen to him when he was desperate, then went back to trying to play cross field passes.

He has played a significant role in the development of many players. He is not a good manager in terms of building a squad and rotating. But he was not a bad man manager till 2011

 
Re: Remember when... (The Real Wenger Legacy?)
Goofle (IP Logged)
03 September, 2017 07:57
That's part of development and other categories of understanding footballers. I'm saying he wasn't a great manager/coach or whatever you want to call it.

 
Re: Remember when... (The Real Wenger Legacy?)
Padre Pio (IP Logged)
03 September, 2017 08:25
I agree with Goofle, he is not going to leave behind a great legacy. Yes 3 league titles was good, and we saw some great football, but it wasn't three in a row they were spaced out. He didn't dominate the league like Ferguson or Paisley, he didn't win three leagues in a row like Chapman at Huddersfield and then go on to another club and create a dynasty capable of winning the league three times in a row all over again. If death hadn't of intervened Chapman would have been indisputably been our greatest manager ever, as it is I still believe history will prove he was.
Wenger should have retired after winning cup in 2005, less would have been more.



- until Wenger moves on, they'll always be the also-rans in the major competitions. A club in elite purgatory. Always good enough to make it to the big race, never fast or smart enough to push over the finish line in first place. That's all about the manager. Until he changes, Arsenal fans will continue to celebrate glorious failure.

 
Re: Remember when... (The Real Wenger Legacy?)
Shane (IP Logged)
03 September, 2017 10:15
Quote:
Goofle
That's part of development and other categories of understanding footballers. I'm saying he wasn't a great manager/coach or whatever you want to call it.

Which falls under the umbrella term of 'management'.

 
Re: Remember when... (The Real Wenger Legacy?)
CazOnARola (IP Logged)
03 September, 2017 13:15
Most of us say wenger didn't understand tactics etc. Not true. I watched the entire liverpool match again (masochistic i know) and he had asked the team to play with a back of 5 and then 3 very close together so that liverpool wouldn't go through the center. But moment we got the ball or players just left their positions.
What he had lost now cannot be recovered. Players like ramsey/xhaka/chamberlain /alexis were no longer listening to whatever was planned. We were clearly setup not to concede early and the players botched it.

What he was and anyways be bad as was rotating players. Henry viera etc used to play 90 min day in day out and thsts one of the reasons we missed out on the champions league.
He'll if that referee had spotted the offside or henry converted his chance, he would have a champions laid as well.
He has been a busted flush for almost 5 years now, but pre 2008, i think he was one of the best in the world

 
Re: Remember when... (The Real Wenger Legacy?)
SandyB (IP Logged)
03 September, 2017 16:08
To measure greatness n legacy and in the world only barometer is success. Success at different levels with higher degree of difficulty puts a manager on here he was.
Wenger won the English league 3 times in those years 8 years, good achievement but not great achievement. Carlo Ancelotti won 2 eerie A, 2 CL in 8 years with much higher degree of difficulty around the same time. Ferguson won same number of league titles n couple of CL during the same time but somehow AKBs bought the hype that Wenger was the best manager in the world, the point is he was never a great manager but good manager in those days.
I can't forget Ancelotti's Milan it's not possible but only good memory I've of Wenger's Arsenal is now Henry.
So in contemporary time Wenger was easily behind Ferguson n Ancelotti, I'd say even behind few more European managers. So he was good manager then but never a great manager.

 
Re: Remember when... (The Real Wenger Legacy?)
CazOnARola (IP Logged)
03 September, 2017 20:05
Carlo and Ferguson are all time greats

 
Re: Remember when... (The Real Wenger Legacy?)
kudzif01 (IP Logged)
03 September, 2017 20:36
A fair assesment of Wenger pre 2011 is that he was a good manager but he was not a great one. The reason he was never great is that relative to other top managers he was always tactically a step behind. The pedestrian performance of Arsenal in europe even though we had top talent shows proves that fact.

Another major fault that stopped him from being great is that he has always been reactive instead of proactive. Stuck with certain players too long and too slow to implement needed changes.

 
Re: Remember when... (The Real Wenger Legacy?)
Optimistic Gunner (IP Logged)
04 September, 2017 01:31
Quote:
kudzif01
A fair assesment of Wenger pre 2011 is that he was a good manager but he was not a great one. The reason he was never great is that relative to other top managers he was always tactically a step behind. The pedestrian performance of Arsenal in europe even though we had top talent shows proves that fact.

Exactly.

Quote:
CazOnARola
Carlo and Ferguson are all time greats

Yes, but most Arsenal fans claim Wenger was an all time great and on the same level as SAF and Ancelotti, which clarly not true, as eveident by Wenger's lack of success in Europe and the fact that Wenger was never as good tactically.



http://i.imgur.com/b1SeVpw.png

 
Re: Remember when... (The Real Wenger Legacy?)
Goofle (IP Logged)
04 September, 2017 09:33
Quote:
Shane
Quote:
Goofle
That's part of development and other categories of understanding footballers. I'm saying he wasn't a great manager/coach or whatever you want to call it.

Which falls under the umbrella term of 'management'.

Getting stuck in definitions here. So I'll put it another way:

Wenger has never been good enough at organising his team without the ball to be called a great manager. Great managers are almost equally good in both aspects, or so well enough in either to match the ability of their players with the success you would expect of them.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/09/2017 12:46 by Goofle.

 
Re: Remember when... (The Real Wenger Legacy?)
Goofle (IP Logged)
04 September, 2017 09:33
DP



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/09/2017 12:46 by Goofle.

 
Re: Remember when... (The Real Wenger Legacy?)
Bergmars (IP Logged)
04 September, 2017 10:34
Bob Paisley has to be up there.



DB10,the best.

 
Re: Remember when... (The Real Wenger Legacy?)
Shane (IP Logged)
04 September, 2017 17:16
Quote:
Goofle
Wenger has never been good enough at organising his team without the ball to be called a great manager. Great managers are almost equally good in both aspects, or so well enough in either to match the ability of their players with the success you would expect of them.

Mauricio Pochettino's teams are equally good off the ball as they are on it, so there must be other factors which define greatness, and there are.

Clearly achievement is a big one, but greatness in any field goes beyond tangible success - awards, medals, trophies, whatever - and enters the realm of influence, contribution and time served.

It boils down to how you affected your field of excellence, whether football is the better for ever having you involved in it. Like it or not but Wenger has left an indelible mark on the sport and he will be remembered as a great.

Nobody is saying he's the greatest of all time.

 
Re: Remember when... (The Real Wenger Legacy?)
SandyB (IP Logged)
04 September, 2017 21:01
Quote:
shano
t boils down to how you affected your field of excellence, whether football is the better for ever having you involved in it. Like it or not but Wenger has left an indelible mark on the sport and he will be remembered as a great.
Well these are Jacques Tati arguments when they declared he's the great!
The greatness is measured by success n it's clear he wasn't even the best for the time frame people gloat about his greatness.
Let's talk about another manager from Wenger the great era!
Frank Rijkaard the reluctant one! People will say he was a Barcelona manager but Barca was in absolute mess when Rijkaard took over in 2003 a broken team, no league title for 6 years no CL. They signed one man Ronaldinho n appointed new manager Rijkaard. Team building started signing of Deco n Etoo, Rijkaard brought that team to incredible height winning 2 titles n a CL in just 5 seasons. Although Pep Guardiola takes credit but Frank Rijkaard is the architect of the Barca team what you see today.
These are unspoken greats who delivered n turned things around not a self proclaimed imposter posing as great even couldn't be considered best in his contemporary era.

 
Re: Remember when... (The Real Wenger Legacy?)
Merlion96 (IP Logged)
05 September, 2017 01:06
I think the last 10 years or more exposed Arsene Wenger as a lucky manager at the right place and right time to such an extent that even Ferguson took pity on him.

In the modern era of 20th century, English Football have these great managers that can transformed a team from nothing into winners:
1 - Bill Shankly
2 - Matt Busby
3 - Bob Paisley
4 - Alex Ferguson
5 - Brian Clough

6 - Raineri got lucky with his team management and at the right place, right time to win the title against all odds. This can never happen elsewhere in Germany, Spain and Italy.

7 - Conte got lucky with a ready-make team of world-class players and his motivation and coaching skills dragged the team from the pit and became winner.

8 - Mourinho just got lucky with Sugar Daddy teams and can afford to buy 2 world-class players for every position.

9 - (6), (7) and (8) proved that Arsene Wenger got lucky at the right place, right time by inheriting GG Fab-4 and Seaman and Rioch's Bergy. Without bergy, I doubt whether Wenger will win even ONE title.


10 - I doubt Wenger will ever get lucky like Raineri or Conte to win another title; unless Man City, ManU, Chelski, Liverpool and even Tiny Totts collectively got into a mid-season slump of 2 to 3 months duration. of course, that was what we said about Leicester City and Chelski then.


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