football
Latest News:
This is the board where Arsenal fans can discuss all things Arsenal, and any other football issues that they feel are of interest to Gunners. Opposition fans are welcome, but remember this board is from an Arsenal point of view. Off Topic Discussion should take place on the Off Topic Forum. Off Topic discussion will be removed. Any topic that is football related, within reason, is not off topic.

 

Let's trust Wenger over Sanchez
Shane (IP Logged)
11 August, 2017 01:02
Hey, put that pitchfork down for a moment. Obviously it's not popular to side with enemy number one over anything - anything at all - but trusting him over Sanchez is the smart move.

Wenger, in my opinion, deserves a lot of the stick which comes his way but we must also search within ourselves to find the decency and humility to acknowledge the fact that he is quite skilled when it comes to re-styling Arsenal in the wake of losing a huge player.

This summer, that player might well be Sanchez, but I have complete faith that, should we lose him, Wenger will, as he always does, find a way to improve Arsenal as a result.

I know this because history has taught us that losing a huge player is never, ever as detrimental for the team we always think it's going to be. Whether it's Henry, Adebayor, Nasri, Fabregas or Van Persie, Arsenal tend to cope very well with their departure.

Our first season without those five players has always been an improvement on the last. Whether it's points or wins, we ended up with more of both in the first season without a major player for us. Even as far back as Anelka, we picked up the same amount of wins in the 1999-00 season as we did in the 1998-99 season, which was his last at Arsenal.

It was a different story after losing Vieira, given we picked up less points and less wins than we did during his final season, but there's still six other very big players for us whose departures didn't stop Wenger from improving the team.

With that in mind, would you be surprised if we picked up more points and more wins without Sanchez this season? Is he more important to us now than Van Persie was? I don't think so, and yet we were literally a better team without him - more points, more wins, improved goal difference of 11 goals, and less points between us and the eventual champions.

Call Wenger negligent, tactically inept, a French c*nt, a fraud. He's deserved every insult thrown at him at one point or the other, but he also deserves your faith in regards to weathering the storm if Sanchez goes because, let's face it, the evidence that he knows how to cope without a big player is overwhelming conclusive.

History itself has proven this.

 
Re: Let's trust Wenger over Sanchez
MattySadler (IP Logged)
11 August, 2017 07:29
I won't deny that Wenger has generally done very well in moving on after losing a big name. RVP is the big example for me. That bloke carried us and we were so reliant on him for goals, losing him was a terrifying thought, but the season after he left, Walcott, Giroud, Podolski and Cazorla all chipped in with double figures in terms of goals and assists, and as it turned out, we didn't really miss van Persie (although we did hand United the title, but that's a different argument...).

My issue is if we end this transfer window with Alexis still here. As things stand, if rumours are to be believed, we could potentially get £40 - 80 million from PSG and guarantee that he signs for a non-Premier League club. If not, he'll enter into the last few months of his contract, leave for free, and possibly join a Man City or Chelsea. I'd rather that didn't happen.

 
Re: Let's trust Wenger over Sanchez
Bergmars (IP Logged)
11 August, 2017 10:08
Problem I don't trust Wenger one bit



DB10,the best.

 
Re: Let's trust Wenger over Sanchez
celine dion (IP Logged)
11 August, 2017 10:38
Does Wenger recover well when he loses a big name, or is it simply that the team doesn't noticeably improve when he SIGNS one.

 
Re: Let's trust Wenger over Sanchez
MattySadler (IP Logged)
11 August, 2017 10:43
Ooooh

 
Re: Let's trust Wenger over Sanchez
CazOnARola (IP Logged)
11 August, 2017 11:32
Sanchez is anti ozil. Ozil supppsedly makes others play well and we all know sanchez is a one man show. Our team play will probably improve but what we will lose is that player that can make something out of nothing, when team play itself is not enough.

This balance is what we have struggled with after the invincibles.
We are either mechanically functioning decently well as a team but missing the star quality that makes that final but if difference or we have stars like sanchez, rvp, cesc who are doing well.
This is because the team is built around them and overall team does badly because we try to compensate for their deficiencies like playing cesc further forward because of his inability to defend, even though he is a natural CM and slows down the game. Make rvp 9.5 cause be can't be a 10 or sanchez s case allow him to hog the bsll at every opportunity he has.

We have never been able to integrate them and make them adapt for the team, rather is always the other way around.
So we will most likely have more points without sanchez cause the team will play more cohesively overall, but we still lose that ability to create something out of nothing and hence still come up sorry over all, even if better than last year.

This boils down to the manager not being able to handle egos of players like sanchez



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2017 14:12 by CazOnARola.

 
Re: Let's trust Wenger over Sanchez
Shane (IP Logged)
11 August, 2017 11:46
Quote:
celine dion
Does Wenger recover well when he loses a big name, or is it simply that the team doesn't noticeably improve when he SIGNS one.

Well that's a different argument.

 
Re: Let's trust Wenger over Sanchez
SandyB (IP Logged)
11 August, 2017 12:37
Go back to the shithole bit.ch! (Sm6)

 
Re: Let's trust Wenger over Sanchez
Shane (IP Logged)
11 August, 2017 13:04
I've never been to Brazil mate.

 
Re: Let's trust Wenger over Sanchez
BootyDaddy (IP Logged)
11 August, 2017 13:24
This is a a bit like saying lets trust my Labrador with the dinner on the kitchen table.



Albert Einstein once said: "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

 
Re: Let's trust Wenger over Sanchez
Optimistic Gunner (IP Logged)
11 August, 2017 15:13
Quote:
celine dion
Does Wenger recover well when he loses a big name, or is it simply that the team doesn't noticeably improve when he SIGNS one.



http://i.imgur.com/b1SeVpw.png

 
Re: Let's trust Wenger over Sanchez
hahanice (IP Logged)
11 August, 2017 20:43
So since Henry and viera and all of them left, we have improved how? What results are you using to base your argument

 
Re: Let's trust Wenger over Sanchez
Ares (IP Logged)
11 August, 2017 22:22
Champions League => Europa League

Improvement?

 
Re: Let's trust Wenger over Sanchez
PKGooner (IP Logged)
12 August, 2017 00:09
Share more prostitute stories.



Quote:
Shane
Hey, put that pitchfork down for a moment. Obviously it's not popular to side with enemy number one over anything - anything at all - but trusting him over Sanchez is the smart move.
Wenger, in my opinion, deserves a lot of the stick which comes his way but we must also search within ourselves to find the decency and humility to acknowledge the fact that he is quite skilled when it comes to re-styling Arsenal in the wake of losing a huge player.

This summer, that player might well be Sanchez, but I have complete faith that, should we lose him, Wenger will, as he always does, find a way to improve Arsenal as a result.

I know this because history has taught us that losing a huge player is never, ever as detrimental for the team we always think it's going to be. Whether it's Henry, Adebayor, Nasri, Fabregas or Van Persie, Arsenal tend to cope very well with their departure.

Our first season without those five players has always been an improvement on the last. Whether it's points or wins, we ended up with more of both in the first season without a major player for us. Even as far back as Anelka, we picked up the same amount of wins in the 1999-00 season as we did in the 1998-99 season, which was his last at Arsenal.

It was a different story after losing Vieira, given we picked up less points and less wins than we did during his final season, but there's still six other very big players for us whose departures didn't stop Wenger from improving the team.

With that in mind, would you be surprised if we picked up more points and more wins without Sanchez this season? Is he more important to us now than Van Persie was? I don't think so, and yet we were literally a better team without him - more points, more wins, improved goal difference of 11 goals, and less points between us and the eventual champions.

Call Wenger negligent, tactically inept, a French c*nt, a fraud. He's deserved every insult thrown at him at one point or the other, but he also deserves your faith in regards to weathering the storm if Sanchez goes because, let's face it, the evidence that he knows how to cope without a big player is overwhelming conclusive.

History itself has proven this.

 
Re: Let's trust Wenger over Sanchez
Merlion96 (IP Logged)
12 August, 2017 00:24
Shane must be sober and banned form his favorite pub when doing this well-written analysis.

I do agreed with Shane that we conveniently forgotten how Wenger kept our heads above the water during the Emirates construction era.

But I must point out that Wenger got lucky with his intimate knowledge of the 1990s'Golden Era of French Football when he was 2 or 3 steps ahead of his competitors and got the young players he wanted to mould into a team to win those 3 titles.

Lest we forgot, the catalyst that united the team and brought out the best in them is Bergy.
I think without Bergy at the right place and right time, we will not win those 3 titles.
Plus of course, Wenger inherited GG Fab-4.

Again, thanks to David Dein, Wenger got Sol Campbell which is one of the main reason for 2003/04 Invincible season.

And after the French Spine, his rigid and predictable tactics plus his acumen to fine bargains (and selling off his marquee players) that cemented our reputation as a Top-4 team - so much promises as title contender during autumn and invariably imploded during the wintry months and out of title race by February every season.

That is, for 10 season or more, Arsene Wenger is a master in creating a bottler of an Arsenal team every season.

In 2016/17, we are actually a Top-4 teams if not for clocking 9 losses instead of clocking only 7 losses for the previous 4 consecutive seasons before 2016/17.

2017/18?
We will never know but this eternal optimist always believe that we can win the title until proven wrong in February 2018. (Sm6)

 
Re: Let's trust Wenger over Sanchez
Merlion96 (IP Logged)
12 August, 2017 00:41
Hypocritical snake-oil salesman at work ... AFTER WE WON.

[arsenal-mania.com]

Whilst many believe the decision was purely sentimental, Arsenal chief executive Ivan Gazidis insisted that was not the case and the decision was made as he ticked all the boxes. Speaking to Sky Sports ahead of the dramatic 4-3 win over Leicester City, he said:

“We’re in a society now where we are encouraged to throw away the old and buy the new thing which will make you happy and solve your issues. For us we thought about the issue of who we wanted to take us forward.”

“When we thought about the key qualities, they were the experience, the gravitas for a club like this, a record of success in the game. Also we wanted someone who could represent our values as a club, what we stand for in the world of football and with our fans.”

“We wanted someone who would play attacking, attractive football, that is a core part of this football club, and finally someone who would give young players a chance. We see players like Hector Bellerin, Alex Iwobi coming through, Reiss Nelson and Joe Willock have had a fantastic pre-season.”

“If you look across the world of football this is a plum position, people want to be manager of Arsenal. If you look across the world of football, you don’t find better candidates than Arsene Wenger. We kept coming back to Arsene.”

“It wasn’t a sentimental decision, it wasn’t based on 20 years of history with the club although there is tremendous loyalty which comes with that. It wasn’t a decision made out of loyalty, but out of the qualities the club has and what we feel we need over the next two years to take this club forward.”



Benjamin Franklin: "… when you assemble a number of Arsenal fans to have the advantage of their joint wisdom, you inevitably assemble with those Arsenal fans, all their prejudices, their passions, their errors of opinion, their local interests, and their selfish views." (Sm3)

 
Re: Let's trust Wenger over Sanchez
Shane (IP Logged)
12 August, 2017 21:11
Quote:
hahanice
So since Henry and viera and all of them left, we have improved how?

Because it's not a coincidence that when we lose a big player, any of the ones I mentioned except Vieira, we've gone on to record more wins and/or collected more points in our first season without them compared to their last season at the club.

And it's relevant because, if Sanchez goes, history might suggest that we will have a better season, in terms of wins and points, without him than we did with him last season. There is a very definite trend which, as far as I can tell, only Vieira has bucked. The rest, as good as they may have been for Arsenal, haven't been missed.

Ifso facto, don't be afraid to lose him because Wenger knows how to weather such storms.

 
Re: Let's trust Wenger over Sanchez
CazOnARola (IP Logged)
12 August, 2017 22:05
Because the team was many times built around the players. Wenger will get the best out the person who he chooses as his protege. Ppl will be moved left right verbs of of their positions, formations tweaked. In the last year before they leave, the players have also often been not giving their best. So whenever they have left, we have been better as a team until the next talisman who becomes large than life at the club.
Wenger teams have akways been open and relied on good passing to get through teams, so if a blank home like sanchez goes, the attack is going to look more balanced and cohesive.
But the downside is always shrub you meet a well illed team, u will lack someone with some magic ala henry, db10, etc etc.
The ideal scenario is to be able to control the stars like sanchez. For e. G. Make him run in more behind than come short and hog the ball. Sadly that hasn't happened for a while now.
So we will get more points than last year possibly, but wont compete as we will have pbms winning when team is playing badly or even the pitch is not conducive to quick passing

 
Re: Let's trust Wenger over Sanchez
Merlion96 (IP Logged)
12 August, 2017 23:06
1st season - running like a Duracell Bunny, box-to-box and helping in defence.

2nd season - injury-prone after playing too many games and returning late from WC2016.

Last season - disenchantment set-in, developed into a full-blown prima donna, upsetting dressing room, sulking on the pitch and just can't be assed to put in 100% on the pitch.

Summer 2017 - Alexis can f**ked off for 80-mil.

That little bit of magic?
I wouldn't sell current team short and when they gelled with their quick-passing and understanding each other movements on the pitch, we will see many of those magic that win games.

 
Re: Let's trust Wenger over Sanchez
CazOnARola (IP Logged)
14 August, 2017 08:06
Thsts no magic in passing. If you mark your man, and cut the angles, it is very difficult to get goals. Even barca felt rely messi and iniesta when that happens. You need players who can make something out of nothing.

Mahrez scored plenty of spectacular goals like that when Leicester won the league



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 14/08/2017 09:22 by CazOnARola.

 
Re: Let's trust Wenger over Sanchez
Optimistic Gunner (IP Logged)
14 August, 2017 10:03
I am not sure if Mahrez wasn't just a one season wonder, but I still prefer him over Walcott.

However I rather we focus on sigining a good strong CM, even if we lose Alexis.

Though I doubt we are gonna sign anymore players, of note, this window.



http://i.imgur.com/b1SeVpw.png

 
Re: Let's trust Wenger over Sanchez
CazOnARola (IP Logged)
14 August, 2017 11:03
Thsts cause mahrez has better technical ability and a brain.
But I'm not sure if id put him in our team. We have very few ppl who can win the ball back from the opposition.

Only players super from our defenders who can do that are welbeck, lacazette, ramsey and sanchez if he stays.
If mahrez replaces sanchez, we become even more weaker in defense.

If you collect the stats from pre season, community world and first game, u will find the above mentioned players would have most tackles /interceptions apart from the back 5 of course.
We need coquelin back asap

 
Re: Let's trust Wenger over Sanchez
MattySadler (IP Logged)
14 August, 2017 13:16
Quote:
Optimistic Gunner
I am not sure if Mahrez wasn't just a one season wonder, but I still prefer him over Walcott.
However I rather we focus on sigining a good strong CM, even if we lose Alexis.

Though I doubt we are gonna sign anymore players, of note, this window.

This. Not even commenting on Lemar and Mahrez's abilities as footballers, to me they're just extras, luxury players after we've sorted out our bigger issues, centre back and central midfield.

 
Re: Let's trust Wenger over Sanchez
tigerline (IP Logged)
14 August, 2017 13:47
Quote:
MattySadler
Quote:
Optimistic Gunner
I am not sure if Mahrez wasn't just a one season wonder, but I still prefer him over Walcott.
However I rather we focus on sigining a good strong CM, even if we lose Alexis.

Though I doubt we are gonna sign anymore players, of note, this window.

This. Not even commenting on Lemar and Mahrez's abilities as footballers, to me they're just extras, luxury players after we've sorted out our bigger issues, centre back and central midfield.

I have a nagging feeling that our biggest troubles with personnel this season will be at Keeper.

Although he still has good instincts, Cech is slipping physically. He is noticeably struggling to get down on low kicks and he has become more injury prone.

Ospina is simply not a good fit in this league. His short frame keeps him rooted in his goal on high crosses into the box. He is far too timid to command his position, On those rare occasions when he does come out to punch, he is outjumped much too easily. Ospina is also soft mentally - in every match, he is good for a long stretch on the grass due to some niggling injury.

wenger should have given Szczesny a new deal and solidified our future at the Keeper position.

 
Re: Let's trust Wenger over Sanchez
Kalela (IP Logged)
14 August, 2017 13:56
In the end I would prefer Sanchez to stay and Wenger to go and not the other way around.



We don't have anybody with 20 goals in the league, so that is a handicap - Arsene Wenger

 
Re: Let's trust Wenger over Sanchez
Shane (IP Logged)
18 August, 2017 16:27
It'll be interesting to see how Klopp does if and when Coutinho goes. We already know he struggles to restyle his teams in the wake of losing a big player, after the way in which Dortmund nosedived due to Lewandowski and Gotze leaving, and I think we'll see a similar decline at Liverpool. This is why Klopp isn't a better manager than Wenger in my view, despite what many of us believe.

You have to be able to successfully adapt to losing big players at clubs like Arsenal and Liverpool, whose talent are always going to be vulnerable to being poached by the super-rich sides, and there's still a big question mark over Klopp's capacity to handle those blows and keep moving forward.

As I said, Wenger's quite good at rebuilding and restyling his teams when he has to. He makes it look like a non-issue, so we treat it as one and overlook it as a major strength, but watch Liverpool without Coutinho this season, Everton without Lukaku and Chelsea without Matic and Costa, and tell me it's not one department in which Wenger excels over his peers.

 
Re: Let's trust Wenger over Sanchez
CazOnARola (IP Logged)
18 August, 2017 18:32
It is not even about losing players and rebuilding. Klopp find his players into the ground. His style of play requires a lot of physical effort. It's the equivalent of working yourself into the ground for a penny. He needs his number 10s to be good at pressing be also decent u enough at passing and scoring. Good luck finding that in this day and age. Coutinho is perfectly suited. Niether of ozil/cesc/iniesta/xavi/james Rodriguez can actually do it and they are not names. So good luck klopp. His best bet is somehow getting a player like former chelsea man Oscar to do his bit of play mane as nos 10

 
Re: Let's trust Wenger over Sanchez
CazOnARola (IP Logged)
18 August, 2017 18:33
Its ditching to maintain that style of play and didn't show great coaching skills. There are a lot more other managers who are better including wenger. Klopps style was good a surprise. Everybody knows what he does now


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
We record all IP addresses on the Sportnetwork message boards which may be required by the authorities in case of defamatory or abusive comment. We seek to monitor the Message Boards at regular intervals. We do not associate Sportnetwork with any of the comments and do not take responsibility for any statements or opinions expressed on the Message Boards. If you have any cause for concern over any material posted here please let us know as soon as possible by e-mailing abuse@sportnetwork.net
 

Who is online?

Total users online:  

Most users online:  

Users on this site:  

Where are they?