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Analysis of Back 3 formation, and should Arsenal stick with it
litmus (IP Logged)
12 May, 2017 08:13
[www.arsenal.com]

[www.thefalse9.com] the-formation-future.html


We seem to be more defensively solid although its a new formation for the players. It helps with overcoming our opponents pressing as the opponents have to cover a wider area, and rather than being a defensive formation, it is actually favoured by more offensive teams.

Should we keep this formation at Stoke?

 
Re: Analysis of Back 3 formation, and should Arsenal stick with it
MattySadler (IP Logged)
12 May, 2017 09:01
Throughout my years as a football fan and as a player of Championship/ Football Manager, I've never been a big fan of three/ five at the back, however you want to look at it, but what I am a big fan of is positive change and moving with the times. Quite a few teams seem to be using these kind of setups and are doing well. We had been on a pretty rancid spell and really needed to do something different. Touch wood, we appear to have, finally, found a bit of stability by having an extra man at the back.

Personally, I am hoping Koscielny is available as I'd rather see Mustafi-Koscielny-Holding against Stoke than Holding-Koscielny-Monreal. Not only is that defence taller, but I think Holding was playing better as the left-sided centre back, and it means Monreal is available to play left wing back. Although Gibbs was very good defensively against Man United and Southampton, he has offered nothing going forward.

Aside from the defence, we appear to be using our midfield correctly as well. I am going to try and analyse Xhaka more at the end of the season, but I'll just quickly show you what I mean...

Below is a picture of Xhaka in a "three at the back" for Gladbach:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9rzSkpXgAEUNNG.jpg

Beautiful. Here is a picture of Xhaka in our "three at the back" against Middlesbrough, the first game we used it:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9rzQvPXYAAfxQ8.jpg

It doesn't take a football genius to spot the problem there. Against Middlesbrough, Xhaka was often our most advanced midfielder, pressing ahead of Ozil, which was just ridiculous. Now though, he is where he should be, anchoring in front of the defence. This has allowed Ramsey to make his brilliant off the ball runs and get ahead of the striker, which were so effective against Man United and in the second half against Southampton.

I'm not sure if this formation is a long term thing, but if it is, then I definitely want to see a left-sided centre back and a left wing back signed.

 
Re: Analysis of Back 3 formation, and should Arsenal stick with it
litmus (IP Logged)
12 May, 2017 09:42
I thought Mustafi was very good against Soton. The stats showed he had a terrific game with succesful interceptions, clearance and tackles. A back three of Mustafi, Kos and Holding is a very solid backline, with Gabriel as back-up. With our new formation, we don't seem to look like conceding every time we are attacked.

But I agree with you Matty, Xhaka has been pressing very high up the field, too high in the past games. In fact, we still suck at pressing. Pressing needs to be done collectively, not individually. Why doesn't AW or Bould rectify this, I don't know.

 
Re: Analysis of Back 3 formation, and should Arsenal stick with it
MattySadler (IP Logged)
12 May, 2017 11:17
At the start of the game there were a couple of incidents where Mustafi was trying to step up and Monreal wasn't, which I put down to either rustiness after his period out injured or just not understanding the system right away, but after that he settled down and put in a very good performance. It was a good comeback.

The pressing thing is part of a bigger problem, but the main thing is that Xhaka shouldn't be the one pressing, as he often was earlier in the season. If you remember, it directly led to his sending off against Swansea. Monreal had been having a nightmare up against Barrow and was caught out of position, Xhaka was further up the field than he'd have liked to be and had to foul to stop the counter attack.

As long as Xhaka isn't the one pressing, then at least that is some sort of progress. Leave it to Welbeck, Ozil, Alexis and Ramsey!

 
Re: Analysis of Back 3 formation, and should Arsenal stick with it
Goofle (IP Logged)
12 May, 2017 15:03
I like it a lot. I'm just not sure we have the right players for it to work in the long run. Xhaka needs to improve defensively, and I think we need another wide CB and LWB.

Also it would be nice to have a centre forward that was a goal scorer.

 
Re: Analysis of Back 3 formation, and should Arsenal stick with it
CazOnARola (IP Logged)
12 May, 2017 18:40
Im. All for it because our DMs in recent times haven't done their job properly and 3 at the back against helps. But we would need massive improvements from the wing backs offensively. It's one of the toughest jobs and requires even greater understanding than sagna or monreal who imho are very good at timing their runs. I woke still prefer monreal as WB over gibbs

 
Re: Analysis of Back 3 formation, and should Arsenal stick with it
Goofle (IP Logged)
14 May, 2017 12:06
Wing back is by far the easiest job in football.

 
Re: Analysis of Back 3 formation, and should Arsenal stick with it
CazOnARola (IP Logged)
14 May, 2017 19:49
Yet teams that don't have good ones don't win much. Its the easiest job to be an average wing back like AOC. But to actually make a difference. There's no point in having one that doesn't cross well and switch off defensively 2-3 times every game

 
Re: Analysis of Back 3 formation, and should Arsenal stick with it
mapleleafgooner (IP Logged)
15 May, 2017 01:38
No matter what formation is used for the new season, need to significantly improve the defence first before anything else. We leaked too many cheap goals at the critical part of the season and never recovered from it. A video of the 2 losses to Bayern should be played back when designing an improved defence. Not just on personnel but tactics, team shape, marking assignments, positional play, tackling, etc. Offence wins games. Defence wins championships.

 
Re: Analysis of Back 3 formation, and should Arsenal stick with it
CazOnARola (IP Logged)
15 May, 2017 07:58
Our players are also weak one v one. Most of them get beat very easily one v one.

 
Re: Analysis of Back 3 formation, and should Arsenal stick with it
Goofle (IP Logged)
15 May, 2017 19:17
Quote:
CazOnARola
Yet teams that don't have good ones don't win much. Its the easiest job to be an average wing back like AOC. But to actually make a difference. There's no point in having one that doesn't cross well and switch off defensively 2-3 times every game

Chelsea just won the league with Moses playing most games.

 
Re: Analysis of Back 3 formation, and should Arsenal stick with it
Boston Gooner (IP Logged)
15 May, 2017 23:14
Our defence needs improving big time whatever system we play.



http://i625.photobucket.com/albums/tt338/BostonGooner1/th_j9gSgr0b_400x400_zps8kfv0ppy.jpg
http://i625.photobucket.com/albums/tt338/BostonGooner1/roastspurs.gif

 
Re: Analysis of Back 3 formation, and should Arsenal stick with it
CazOnARola (IP Logged)
16 May, 2017 18:55
Quote:
Goofle
Quote:
CazOnARola
Yet teams that don't have good ones don't win much. Its the easiest job to be an average wing back like AOC. But to actually make a difference. There's no point in having one that doesn't cross well and switch off defensively 2-3 times every game

Chelsea just won the league with Moses playing most games.
what does that day about other teams mate?
There's a reason british teams have sucked in Europe. You can say whatever your want, but epl teams make lot of tactical errors in games and cancel each other out. Be it bad touches / missed passes etc. That's why epl teams haven't been able to touch bayern barca madrdid and even athletico

 
Re: Analysis of Back 3 formation, and should Arsenal stick with it
CazOnARola (IP Logged)
16 May, 2017 18:59
Teams with squad like ours have grossly under performed because of a variety of reasons. Lets see what conte does with more games next season.
We lost the league to Leicester last year inspite of beating them twice , and so did everybody else.

 
Re: Analysis of Back 3 formation, and should Arsenal stick with it
CazOnARola (IP Logged)
16 May, 2017 19:11
Mind you, i think conte is a very good manager, and he managed to get the best out of his squad. Am not a big fan of luiz either but conte made it work and the less games obv helped

 
Re: Analysis of Back 3 formation, and should Arsenal stick with it
MattySadler (IP Logged)
16 May, 2017 19:15
Luiz was very underrated before this season and has come on leaps and bounds since returning to the Chels.

 
Re: Analysis of Back 3 formation, and should Arsenal stick with it
mapleleafgooner (IP Logged)
16 May, 2017 19:23
I think Luiz is a disaster waiting to happen. He has a strong defensive midfield to protect him and a superb keeper to bail him out.

 
Re: Analysis of Back 3 formation, and should Arsenal stick with it
CazOnARola (IP Logged)
16 May, 2017 19:49
Epl games have dropped in quality over the past 3 seasons. David luiz isn't that different from mustafi in terms of ill timed tackling. He's playing in a team better drilled and less confused.

 
Re: Analysis of Back 3 formation, and should Arsenal stick with it
Merlion96 (IP Logged)
16 May, 2017 21:44
May have a point there seeing English teams are nowhere close to winning CL Cup or entering the semi-finals.


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