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Where are the Wenger apologists?
gunnersingh (IP Logged)
22 November, 2014 21:19
I haven't heard from Edgenda, or his sidekick yes man Philly.

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
SA-Gunner (IP Logged)
22 November, 2014 21:22
Just wait some minutes (Sm159)

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
MattySadler (IP Logged)
22 November, 2014 21:32
They quit the forum mate

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
gunnersingh (IP Logged)
22 November, 2014 21:45
Ha, typical, they choose the right time.

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
Shane (IP Logged)
22 November, 2014 23:54
I have it on good authority that Ed and Philly have set up their Arsenal forum called Wengershelmet.co.uk.

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
Boston Gooner (IP Logged)
22 November, 2014 23:55
Quote:
Shane
I have it on good authority that Ed and Philly have set up their Arsenal forum called Wengershelmet.co.uk.

(Sm22)



http://i63.tinypic.com/2dt9c3q.jpg

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
plonky (IP Logged)
23 November, 2014 00:39
Quote:
Shane
I have it on good authority that Ed and Philly have set up their Arsenal forum called Wengershelmet.co.uk.

(Sm22)That has almost cheered me up Shane.

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
Merlion96 (IP Logged)
23 November, 2014 02:52
I reiterate, judge Arsene Wenger only at season end, May 2015.

We are having the same old knee-jerk reaction after every defeat since 2007/08 season.(Sm154)

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
SandyB (IP Logged)
23 November, 2014 03:38
Quote:
Merlion96
I reiterate, judge Arsene Wenger only at season end, May 2015.
We are having the same old knee-jerk reaction after every defeat since 2007/08 season.(Sm154)
Knee jerk mark-32 n assess him end of the season part:50!
lol

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
Merlion96 (IP Logged)
23 November, 2014 05:22
Quote:
SandyB
Quote:
Merlion96
I reiterate, judge Arsene Wenger only at season end, May 2015.
We are having the same old knee-jerk reaction after every defeat since 2007/08 season.(Sm154)
Knee jerk mark-32 n assess him end of the season part:50!
lol

Indeed, it is a chronic knee problem due to age ...(Sm102)

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
Eboractos (IP Logged)
23 November, 2014 13:44
Quote:
Merlion96
I reiterate, judge Arsene Wenger only at season end, May 2015.

Why? He asked us to judge him at the end of the season after he sold Patrick Vieira.

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
Merlion96 (IP Logged)
23 November, 2014 15:05
Quote:
Eboractos
Quote:
Merlion96
I reiterate, judge Arsene Wenger only at season end, May 2015.

Why? He asked us to judge him at the end of the season after he sold Patrick Vieira.

C'mon, admit it. He almost won the title if not for that Clichy's last minute clanger.
Indeed, 2007/08 proved Arsene Wenger was correct ... and misjudged the loyalty of his foreign recruits.

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
Flava (IP Logged)
23 November, 2014 15:21
Quote:
Shane
I have it on good authority that Ed and Philly have set up their Arsenal forum called Wengershelmet.co.uk.

That site doesn't exist. I'm really disappointed by this

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
Eboractos (IP Logged)
23 November, 2014 15:27
[quote Merlion96][quote Eboractos]

C'mon, admit it. He almost won the title if not for that Clichy's last minute clanger.
Indeed, 2007/08 proved Arsene Wenger was correct ... and misjudged the loyalty of his foreign recruits.[/quote]

I'll readily admit that there was once a time when Arsenal nearly won the league but then didn't. Saying that you might have won if only you'd made fewer mistakes could apply just as much to Tottenham or Everton though.

To get back to my original point though, Wenger actively asked the fans to judge him at the end of the 05/06 season. We finished 24 points off the top and it's been excuse after excuse ever since

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
Jack_is_the_truth (IP Logged)
23 November, 2014 16:03
I think wenger will turn it around

Ed hasn't quit by the way he was joking

What's a Philly????



http://giant.gfycat.com/DistantVastGuanaco.gif http://164.177.157.12/img/teams/13.png
The future is now!!!!!!!

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
BootyDaddy (IP Logged)
23 November, 2014 16:07
Wenger is useless. If I was half as c.rap at my job as he is, I'd have been sacked years ago.



Albert Einstein once said: "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
Merlion96 (IP Logged)
23 November, 2014 23:59
[quote Eboractos][quote Merlion96][quote Eboractos]

C'mon, admit it. He almost won the title if not for that Clichy's last minute clanger.
Indeed, 2007/08 proved Arsene Wenger was correct ... and misjudged the loyalty of his foreign recruits.[/quote]

I'll readily admit that there was once a time when Arsenal nearly won the league but then didn't. Saying that you might have won if only you'd made fewer mistakes could apply just as much to Tottenham or Everton though.

To get back to my original point though, Wenger actively asked the fans to judge him at the end of the 05/06 season. We finished 24 points off the top and it's been excuse after excuse ever since[/quote]

Don't you know that he said judged him to retain 4th spot is as good as winning a trophy?

See how his tune had changed when "financial result" is all the Board judging him on.
Kudos to Arsene Wenger for managing Arsenal Holdings plc. on a shoestring budget and yet punched above its weight on a shoestring budget, and concurrently paying off that 390-mil Emirates Debt with consistent gross profit growth every season.

Yes, Arsenal fans had judged him; some wanted him out for being a specialist in failures; some still praise him to high heavens as our Football God who delivered every season on a shoe-string budget and best thing to happen to Arsenal FC since sliced bread.

Well, the Board had measured, judged and found him performing by offering a 6-year extension, getting out of the way "If he does not have a plan, we keep quiet".

Are you in a minority - say 49% of Arsenal fan base - that wanted him out whereas 51% still has "In Wenger We Trust" wanting to extend his contract beyond 2016/17?

Judge him then in May 2015 as to whether we are still a Top-4 Team, or better still improve to 3rd spot with 2nd spot still within reach.

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
mapleleafgooner (IP Logged)
24 November, 2014 00:45
I think Wenger will walk out of his contract if Arsenal misses out on Wenger cup.

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
SandyB (IP Logged)
24 November, 2014 03:03
Quote:
mapleleafgooner
I think Wenger will walk out of his contract if Arsenal misses out on Wenger cup.

Arsenal isn't going to miss out the Wenger cup and Wenger will stay.

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
Moe (IP Logged)
24 November, 2014 03:30
Maybe there's nothing to apologise for?

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
Flava (IP Logged)
24 November, 2014 07:21
I still think we'll be top 4

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
BootyDaddy (IP Logged)
24 November, 2014 11:38
Great 4th place, that will make a change.

Bein an Arsenal fan is boring these days. Really boring in fact, to the point of not caring anymore and just shrugging the shoulders when beaten at home by Utd as it's just groundhog day again now.

Until Wenger leaves, there will be no change.



Albert Einstein once said: "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
Flava (IP Logged)
24 November, 2014 12:17
Quote:
Moe
Maybe there's nothing to apologise for?

There's plenty to apologise for.

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
mallyx68 (IP Logged)
24 November, 2014 12:38
Quote:
BootDaddy
Bein an Arsenal fan is boring these days. Really boring in fact, to the point of not caring anymore and just shrugging the shoulders when beaten at home by Utd as it's just groundhog day again now.

Translation

I am not interested in Arsenal if they are not winning things. I only follow Arsenal for some percieved associated glory when they win trohpies. If they are not winning... count me out, it's boring.

Another glory hunting excuse of a fan. There seems to be more and more of them these days at Arsenal.

Maybe Wenger isn't the man to take us forward, maybe it is time for a change of manager at the end of the season. It's just a shame you can't change some of the fans.

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
BootyDaddy (IP Logged)
24 November, 2014 14:16
LOL I have supported Arsenal 26 years you bellend. I’m pretty sure I don’t remember us winning year after year throughout that time.

But what did happen was if a manager was underperforming or not doing his job properly and producing successful teams, he was axed. That isn’t the case anymore, it’s now a finances first, results second business and the manager is fully behind that.

Not doing what is desperately needed in the transfer window (every transfer window I might add) and leaving us 3 or 4 players short every season, scraping 4th place in the league (referred to as a trophy by those in charge) which just about gets us into the CL to be knocked out in the first round every year...... is f.ucking boring. It’s what happens EVERY season. That is what is boring, very very BORING.

Understand now, junior?



Albert Einstein once said: "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
mallyx68 (IP Logged)
24 November, 2014 15:08
Tell me why he is underperforming?

Of course finances have to come first. Just look at some of the clubs that didn't do that and what happened to them. We don't rely on a sugar daddy like some clubs, that's to our credit.

After supporting them for 26 years you'd think you'd know better. The difference these days is that every idiot has a medium for being heard.

I've actually been following them for close on 40 years, so it's quite refreshing to be called junior.

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
BootyDaddy (IP Logged)
24 November, 2014 15:19
He is underperforming because he hasn't and isn't doing his job accordingly. His job is to produce a team capable of challenging for major trophies, and to the contrary of what he says and the likes of you believe, 4th place just doesn't cut it I'm afraid.

Transfer window and transfer window he fails to put a team together worthy of doing anything more than scraping 4th place. This year we went into the season with 2 f.ucking centre backs, and as a result now we're having to play a LB there who is actually a rather c.rap LB too. It's beyond negligence.

How many times are we going to get overrun at the back to the counter attack before he addresses it? 3 games in a row now, but in actual fact it's been going on for years. Remember the 4-4 at Liverpool? Arshavin got his 4th to give us a 4-3 lead in the 90th minute and we got done on the counter attack then. Take the lead in the 90th f.ucking minute and we still can't defend accordingly and hold out for the required result.

This is year in year out being an Arsenal fan. Do just enough to scrape into the CL by getting 4th place in the league, only to be knocked out of the CL in the first round every year anyway due to all of the above already mentioned. It's so predictable and BORING !



Albert Einstein once said: "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
karsene16 (IP Logged)
24 November, 2014 16:35
Quote:
mallyx68
Tell me why he is underperforming?
Of course finances have to come first. Just look at some of the clubs that didn't do that and what happened to them. We don't rely on a sugar daddy like some clubs, that's to our credit.

After supporting them for 26 years you'd think you'd know better. The difference these days is that every idiot has a medium for being heard.

I've actually been following them for close on 40 years, so it's quite refreshing to be called junior.

Supporting a club when they're sh*t has a different meaning when the club is charging premium rates. In other words the ticket prices alone demand us to be competitive, half for the stadium half for the level of performance.

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
Flava (IP Logged)
24 November, 2014 16:39



 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
SuperRob (IP Logged)
24 November, 2014 17:42
The lack of passion left in the arsenal supporters was clear after utds second goal. Silence. No rallying cry. Not much anger. Just the resignation of inevitability. Everyone except Wenger could see it coming. That's why he has to go.

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
Flava (IP Logged)
24 November, 2014 18:00
I've just heard Merson's comments as well. He's not the most eloquent of speakers but he was spot on with what he said

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
gunnersingh (IP Logged)
24 November, 2014 18:11
Quote:
Flava



FAO Plonky, watch this video.

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
Padre Pio (IP Logged)
24 November, 2014 18:15
There were afew fights around stadium, plus one idiot threw red wine over Man U bench



- until Wenger moves on, they'll always be the also-rans in the major competitions. A club in elite purgatory. Always good enough to make it to the big race, never fast or smart enough to push over the finish line in first place. That's all about the manager. Until he changes, Arsenal fans will continue to celebrate glorious failure.

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
plonky (IP Logged)
24 November, 2014 18:17
I already did. Another one with perfect 20/20 hindsight. We should have played for a 1-0 defeat at home.

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
gunnersingh (IP Logged)
24 November, 2014 18:24
It's not just about this game though Plonky. It's just about when we're behind. Our fullbacks get caught out in all circumstances, it's just not acceptable anymore.

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
plonky (IP Logged)
24 November, 2014 18:43
How many goals conceded have you and Neville analysed over how many seasons to be so certain it's down to the fullbacks.

Did you spot Mertersacker stood on the right wing admiring his 10 yard pass when Utd broke? Why didn't he drop deep straight away?

Do you think Gibbs should have marked Di Maria for the full 95 mins no matter what the match situation?

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
Big Guhnz (IP Logged)
24 November, 2014 18:56
Quote:
Merlion96
I reiterate, judge Arsene Wenger only at season end, May 2015.
We are having the same old knee-jerk reaction after every defeat since 2007/08 season.(Sm154)

We have had the same end of May for 10 years if hardly call anything knee jerk I'd call it patients ran out

Arsenal have some of most patient fans in the history of fandom

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
gunnersingh (IP Logged)
24 November, 2014 19:15
Well Plonky, answer me this, Why did Ferguson use the tactic of letting us having possession and then hitting us down are sides on the ccounter?

If you don't believe me, read his book.

Mert should have been back too, I have to admit that.

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
plonky (IP Logged)
24 November, 2014 19:41
Quote:
gunnersingh
Well Plonky, answer me this, Why did Ferguson use the tactic of letting us having possession and then hitting us down are sides on the ccounter?
.

How many goals have they scored like that over the past 10 years? What was the score and minutes left on the clock for each time it happened?

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
gunnersingh (IP Logged)
24 November, 2014 19:57
Plonky, you sound like Wenger. When the reality is staring you right in your face, you talk about stats and figures.

This is not the first time it has taken you longer to see what others have. Remember the Rosicky situation? You wanted him to be a starting player, whilst the majority knew he was finished.

If you can't see the issues of teams getting in behind our fullbacks, then I can't help you!

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
plonky (IP Logged)
24 November, 2014 20:14
I don't know why we bothered buying this company. They should have just left it to you and Neville to give your valuable insight and saved a couple of million quid..

[www.theguardian.com]

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
mallyx68 (IP Logged)
24 November, 2014 20:29
Quote:
BootyDaddy
He is underperforming because he hasn't and isn't doing his job accordingly. His job is to produce a team capable of challenging for major trophies, and to the contrary of what he says and the likes of you believe, 4th place just doesn't cut it I'm afraid.

It's not a matter of 4th place cutting it and the comment about 4th being a trophy was taken entirely out of context. It's not a matter of settling for 4th, it's matter of it's is very very difficult to finish higher.

If you look at the past seasons (since 2009/10) we have only finished behind Man Utd, Chelsea, Man City and once Liverpool. Finishing behind Liverpool could possibly be considered an under achievement but you need to see the amount of money have thrown at their team over the last decade.

Now in certain seasons we have finished above Man Utd, Chelsea and City but never all at once. Given the financial strength of Chelsea and City and the massive club that is Utd it would take some outstanding achievement for us to finish above all of them.

Now, maybe finish 3rd or 4th behind these teams isn't overachieving but it most certainly isn't underachieving.

If Wenger were to call it a day tomorrow (and that is the only way he will leave) within a year he could be managing ANY club in the world, they all would want him.

Does that sound like an underachieving manager to you?

Quote:
BootyDaddy
Transfer window and transfer window he fails to put a team together worthy of doing anything more than scraping 4th place. This year we went into the season with 2 f.ucking centre backs, and as a result now we're having to play a LB there who is actually a rather c.rap LB too. It's beyond negligence.

Of course we should have got at least another CB. You know that, I know that the world knows it. So, obviously, so does Wenger. So the question is why didn't we? What happened for us to go into the season so short handed? I can't believe it's because Wenger is counting the pennies because we were one of the highest spenders this year. Something happened and I would love to know what it was and I will be very interested to read Wenger's autobiography went he eventually writes it, to find out.

Quote:
BootyDaddy
How many times are we going to get overrun at the back to the counter attack before he addresses it? 3 games in a row now, but in actual fact it's been going on for years. Remember the 4-4 at Liverpool? Arshavin got his 4th to give us a 4-3 lead in the 90th minute and we got done on the counter attack then. Take the lead in the 90th f.ucking minute and we still can't defend accordingly and hold out for the required result.

OMG 4-4 you are right, how incredibly boring it is to watch Arsenal. I jest.

For someone who hasn't got a clue defensively/tactically, do you know we had the 3rd best defensive record in the league last year and the 2nd best the year before that?

Quote:
BootyDaddy
This is year in year out being an Arsenal fan. Do just enough to scrape into the CL by getting 4th place in the league, only to be knocked out of the CL in the first round every year anyway due to all of the above already mentioned. It's so predictable and BORING !

You have just got used to Wenger overacheiving the club goals. The club always knew there was going to be a period of years which would be tough when moving stadium. They budgeted as if we would not make the CL each year but Wenger delivered that.

The fact that Chelsea seem to be running away with the League this year also feeds the frustration but I don't believe any club... City, Utd, Liverpool, not just Arsenal are going to be able to do anything about it.

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
gunnersingh (IP Logged)
24 November, 2014 20:34
Plonky, Thank god that company's data has improved us...

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
plonky (IP Logged)
24 November, 2014 20:54
It will. Once they sort out Rosickys' algorithm.

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
gunnersingh (IP Logged)
24 November, 2014 21:22
The scrap heep can sort that, forget a computer...

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
Big Guhnz (IP Logged)
24 November, 2014 22:10
It's becoming cultish to say the least

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
Merlion96 (IP Logged)
25 November, 2014 00:13
Any of you lots dare to call moi "Wenger Apologist" even though I am still backing him to this team around? (Sm71)

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
Padre Pio (IP Logged)
25 November, 2014 00:44
Quote:
plonky
I don't know why we bothered buying this company. They should have just left it to you and Neville to give your valuable insight and saved a couple of million quid..
[www.theguardian.com]

Its for money laundering



- until Wenger moves on, they'll always be the also-rans in the major competitions. A club in elite purgatory. Always good enough to make it to the big race, never fast or smart enough to push over the finish line in first place. That's all about the manager. Until he changes, Arsenal fans will continue to celebrate glorious failure.

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
SandyB (IP Logged)
25 November, 2014 01:41
Quote:
mallyx68
Quote:
BootyDaddy
He is underperforming because he hasn't and isn't doing his job accordingly. His job is to produce a team capable of challenging for major trophies, and to the contrary of what he says and the likes of you believe, 4th place just doesn't cut it I'm afraid.

It's not a matter of 4th place cutting it and the comment about 4th being a trophy was taken entirely out of context. It's not a matter of settling for 4th, it's matter of it's is very very difficult to finish higher.

If you look at the past seasons (since 2009/10) we have only finished behind Man Utd, Chelsea, Man City and once Liverpool. Finishing behind Liverpool could possibly be considered an under achievement but you need to see the amount of money have thrown at their team over the last decade.

Now in certain seasons we have finished above Man Utd, Chelsea and City but never all at once. Given the financial strength of Chelsea and City and the massive club that is Utd it would take some outstanding achievement for us to finish above all of them.

Now, maybe finish 3rd or 4th behind these teams isn't overachieving but it most certainly isn't underachieving.

If Wenger were to call it a day tomorrow (and that is the only way he will leave) within a year he could be managing ANY club in the world, they all would want him.

Does that sound like an underachieving manager to you?

Quote:
BootyDaddy
Transfer window and transfer window he fails to put a team together worthy of doing anything more than scraping 4th place. This year we went into the season with 2 f.ucking centre backs, and as a result now we're having to play a LB there who is actually a rather c.rap LB too. It's beyond negligence.

Of course we should have got at least another CB. You know that, I know that the world knows it. So, obviously, so does Wenger. So the question is why didn't we? What happened for us to go into the season so short handed? I can't believe it's because Wenger is counting the pennies because we were one of the highest spenders this year. Something happened and I would love to know what it was and I will be very interested to read Wenger's autobiography went he eventually writes it, to find out.

Quote:
BootyDaddy
How many times are we going to get overrun at the back to the counter attack before he addresses it? 3 games in a row now, but in actual fact it's been going on for years. Remember the 4-4 at Liverpool? Arshavin got his 4th to give us a 4-3 lead in the 90th minute and we got done on the counter attack then. Take the lead in the 90th f.ucking minute and we still can't defend accordingly and hold out for the required result.

OMG 4-4 you are right, how incredibly boring it is to watch Arsenal. I jest.

For someone who hasn't got a clue defensively/tactically, do you know we had the 3rd best defensive record in the league last year and the 2nd best the year before that?

Quote:
BootyDaddy
This is year in year out being an Arsenal fan. Do just enough to scrape into the CL by getting 4th place in the league, only to be knocked out of the CL in the first round every year anyway due to all of the above already mentioned. It's so predictable and BORING !

You have just got used to Wenger overacheiving the club goals. The club always knew there was going to be a period of years which would be tough when moving stadium. They budgeted as if we would not make the CL each year but Wenger delivered that.

The fact that Chelsea seem to be running away with the League this year also feeds the frustration but I don't believe any club... City, Utd, Liverpool, not just Arsenal are going to be able to do anything about it.

I've a question for you mallyx, have you ever been to ANY football match in your lifetime? Answer this with honesty otherwise you could face further questions, you don't sound like football fan!

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
mallyx68 (IP Logged)
25 November, 2014 07:45
Quote:
SandyB
I've a question for you mallyx, have you ever been to ANY football match in your lifetime? Answer this with honesty otherwise you could face further questions, you don't sound like football fan!

What you mean is I don't sound like a modern football fan (a generalisation) where I have a tantrum, at the club, at the manager, to anyone who will listen after every defeat or poor result.

That I most certainly am not and do not wish to be. I'm as gutted as the next fan when we lose but I like to use a little bit of perspective.

TO answer your question, although I don't quite get the relevance. Yes, I have been to football matches, many at many different levels. I also played to county level as a youngster (many many years ago), although your ability to play football bears little resemblence to your knowledge of the game.

I have watched football from the mid 70's so I may well have more experience than yourself and many on here of watching football.

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
SandyB (IP Logged)
25 November, 2014 13:40
Your answer told the truth mallyx that you have never been to a football game and yes it's relevant coz the amount of sh.it you shower is beyond radio's grasp. I threw this question to you coz you call yourself an Arsenal fan for past 40 yrs any die hard fan of the club would have challenged me with their memories of every corners of Highbury like you dare to challenge I'd tell you which was the shortest escape route to fuc.k off from maracana if we lost a game against Fluminense or where we used pis.ss from tthe stand without having to find the urinal or whrere was the ultras stand where even vultures wouldn't dare to fly. You don't talk a shi.t about a match about your memories from games you have seen, a player you observed to grow a club you support to evolve for good or bad. All the shi.t you shower about building stadiuum, budget who spends what money n why Wenger is the only option a club can have. It's ok for the foreign fans like DeTimes or me to talk about Arsenal these shi.ts as we actually know fuc.k all about the club but if you say you are English n Arsenal fan ror 40 yrs you need to know much much more than what you sprout buddy. So shut the fuc.k up you don't even know stuff what jack. tom or GS knows about Arsenal. You pretend to be a die hard AKB coz that's what you belive that people will listen to you a bit. We have seen thousands of internet rugs like you no matter whichever side pro or anti Wenger you are doesn't really matter. Got it!

And one more thing, the Wenger appologists like philly or eduardo which people are looking for are real fans unlike you so noone is interested in what you sprout n play the proxy for them. Now fuc.k off.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 25/11/2014 13:47 by SandyB.

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
mallyx68 (IP Logged)
25 November, 2014 14:39
WOW

Do yourself a favour, mate and get some help.

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
weedz (IP Logged)
25 November, 2014 19:22
He's beyond it, Mally.

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
celine dion (IP Logged)
25 November, 2014 20:00
It's pretty relevant as to whether you are paying customer of Arsenal FC Mally, in terms of what your views on Wenger may or may not be. Your analysis of the dynamic at Arsenal is far too simplistic for someone who claims this kind of emotional superiority over other fans. I also find it telling that you say 'the club' budgeted for a period of austerity following the stadium build. I'm assuming you are aware that 'the club' changed ownership during this period?

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
Eboractos (IP Logged)
25 November, 2014 21:02
Despite often coming across as a @#$%& lunatic SandyB is actually making a decent point. You have some very strong views on what constitutes a proper fan Mally and were very adamant that Wenger was right to reject Merson's criticism on the basis that Merson had no experience of top level management.
There are people on here that have season tickets, go to AGMs, loon around in The Gunners listening to the Away Boyz and literally breath in the atmosphere around the ground on big match days. By the same logic those people could quite rightly tell someone in their armchair in Middle England to get @#$%& with sanctimonious posts about how they aren't proper fans.

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
Padre Pio (IP Logged)
25 November, 2014 23:43
Having been a fan for over 6o years and a season ticket holder for about last 15 years, Attending AGMs, AST and AiSA, been to hundreds of away games in my time, I would not chuck not a real fan at any one who says they are an Arsenal Supporter, unless they change sides during half time.

There are fans who attend every home game from Scandanavia, Scotland and the North, their are fans who watch every away game every season, so if one of them says Wenger out then they are right because they are real fans? Or another one says he should stay, so he is right because he is a real fan?
Nonsense its the logic of the arguement and its relation to reality that counts. Of course the grasp on reality can be affected by whether you attend the ground or not but its not the only factor.
But the fan who does invest a lot into the club may take losing more to heart than one who watches a free stream.
What I dont like is the idea that real fans have to support Wenger- this is nonsense, real fans support Arsenal the Manager is another issue.
When I first supported the team as a child I hadnt a clue who the manager was and didnt give a fig who it was, it was the men in red and white I supported.
What amazes me is some of the stupid loyalty to the board, ie fans who support high prices because the press are picking on Arsenal and so on.

Wenger has managed to become a focus for division amongst our fans, no one knows how they should react, apart from some staunch Wengerites who think its ok to slug fans who are anti wenger to keep the holy grail pure. It means the atmosphere is a combination of toxic and passive at the same time.

Wenger said we had to move so we could compete with the big boys and then declared 8 years of Austerity. If we had know competing with the big boys meant Sanogo, Jenkinson, Chamakh, Monreal etc would we have bothered?
Meanwhile they sat on a hidden hoard of £100 million, £60million which is still salted away in a property company. Wenger has gone along with it all he hasnt objected.
Poor little Arsenal will not do, we are owned by two of the richest men in the world.
Yet all we can do is win 4th every year and barely exit the group stage of the CL, fans paying premium prices for season tickets dont think its good enough. They are right.



- until Wenger moves on, they'll always be the also-rans in the major competitions. A club in elite purgatory. Always good enough to make it to the big race, never fast or smart enough to push over the finish line in first place. That's all about the manager. Until he changes, Arsenal fans will continue to celebrate glorious failure.

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
SandyB (IP Logged)
26 November, 2014 02:11
Quote:
mallyx
Of course we should have got at least another CB. You know that, I know that the world knows it. So, obviously, so does Wenger. So the question is why didn't we? What happened for us to go into the season so short handed? I can't believe it's because Wenger is counting the pennies because we were one of the highest spenders this year. Something happened and I would love to know what it was and I will be very interested to read Wenger's autobiography went he eventually writes it, to find out.

To be very specific, this statement from him pis.sed me off. He calls himself following Arsenal for 40 years and a hard core football fan who thinks that some pis.sed of fans on internet are too much of modern day fans behavior, every moron has a place to moan?

Fans used to burn club tents, some players n coaches ran out of clubs to save their life n never came back. I'm sure in 80's English fans were the same hooligans, I remember some of the clubs were even banned in Europe n he finds modern day football fans are some kind of impatient glory hunting morons that at the most sometimes they boo or chant in the ground or moan on internet!!
This guy sprout some nonsense of highest order with authority n he calls himself a fan who's supporting the club for 40 yrs can lecture everybody else as glory hunters need to read Wenger's autobiography to know why didn't he buy a 3rd choice CB after spending 70 m on other players in the same season! lol...give me a break! This is too much of a stuff on the internet! (Sm22)

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
Zainy (IP Logged)
26 November, 2014 04:18
Quote:
Padre Pio
Having been a fan for over 6o years and a season ticket holder for about last 15 years, Attending AGMs, AST and AiSA, been to hundreds of away games in my time, I would not chuck not a real fan at any one who says they are an Arsenal Supporter, unless they change sides during half time.
Wenger has managed to become a focus for division amongst our fans, no one knows how they should react, apart from some staunch Wengerites who think its ok to slug fans who are anti wenger to keep the holy grail pure. It means the atmosphere is a combination of toxic and passive at the same time.

Wenger said we had to move so we could compete with the big boys and then declared 8 years of Austerity. If we had know competing with the big boys meant Sanogo, Jenkinson, Chamakh, Monreal etc would we have bothered?
Meanwhile they sat on a hidden hoard of £100 million, £60million which is still salted away in a property company. Wenger has gone along with it all he hasnt objected.
Poor little Arsenal will not do, we are owned by two of the richest men in the world.
Yet all we can do is win 4th every year and barely exit the group stage of the CL, fans paying premium prices for season tickets dont think its good enough. They are right.

Won't be getting fourth this season. Trailing Dortmund who have been rock bottom of the bundesliga for most of the season. Our team is for the first time in about 10 years, stronger than it was the previous season but we are playing poorer than ever.
I was always willing to give Wenger the benefit of doubt and felt no one else could do a better job in the current football climate with his resources but now feel it's time for a change. We will probably slip even further behind in the coming years if we change managers but the time when we had a chance to dramatically up the ante with good transfers and challenge for the title in one transfer window are now gone. We need to start thinking about the long game now.

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
mallyx68 (IP Logged)
26 November, 2014 07:55
Quote:
Celine Dion
It's pretty relevant as to whether you are paying customer of Arsenal FC Mally, in terms of what your views on Wenger may or may not be.

Total and utter BS.

Also Sandby asked if I'd ever been to a football match which is not the same question. I answerd and he got very upset.

Quote:
Celine Dion
Your analysis of the dynamic at Arsenal is far too simplistic

Are you having a laugh. Calling for the Manager to go/the board to go after every defeat or calling the manager this or that and that all of a sudden he's a sh*t manager is taking a far far too simplistic view. You lot absolutely amaze me, you really do.

Quote:
Celine Dion
I also find it telling that you say 'the club' budgeted for a period of austerity following the stadium build. I'm assuming you are aware that 'the club' changed ownership during this period?

Are you telling me they never? Did the club changing hands change any of this.

Look at the end of the day, I am no fan of the board but I do think it relevant when trying to judge the job Wenger has done since we did move.

I also think Wenger does have questions to answer on this season but some of the sh*t written on here about him is just incredible. I do believe he can turn it around but not that he's unquesitonable.

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
mallyx68 (IP Logged)
26 November, 2014 08:10
Quote:
Eboractos
Despite often coming across as a @#$%& lunatic SandyB is actually making a decent point.

No, he really never did.

Quote:
Eboractos
were very adamant that Wenger was right to reject Merson's criticism on the basis that Merson had no experience of top level management.

No, I never quesiotned his right to do so. I questioned if people should be taking his points seriously given his experience compared to Wengers. Who do you think is vastly more knowledgable about runnning a football club, winning football matches etc. Merson was a brilliant footballer but he's an embarrassing pundit.

I do take the point though on occasion for having a go at fans on here who say things like "I'm giving up watching them now because they just bore me" after a few bad results. Or stupid comments like "I don't care if we have a worse manager as long as we get rid of Wenger".

You and Padre are correct. I do not have the right to decide who is a proper fan or not and will refrain from doing so from now. To those I have aimed such aquisations, I apologise. But I get very frustrated when I read such comments just like I guess they are when they write such comments.

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
mallyx68 (IP Logged)
26 November, 2014 08:24
Quote:
SandyB
Fans used to burn club tents, some players n coaches ran out of clubs to save their life n never came back. I'm sure in 80's English fans were the same hooligans, I remember some of the clubs were even banned in Europe n he finds modern day football fans are some kind of impatient glory hunting morons that at the most sometimes they boo or chant in the ground or moan on internet!!

You understand very little of the hooliganism of the 80's, that is made quite clear in your post, you disturbed little individual.

Quote:
SandyB
This guy sprout some nonsense o f highest order with authority n he calls himself a fan who's supporting the club for 40 yrs can lecture everybody else as glory hunters need to read Wenger's autobiography to know why didn't he buy a 3rd choice CB after spending 70 m on other players in the same season! lol...give me a break! This is too much of a stuff on the internet!

I apolosise for wanting to know the real reason for not buying a centre back instead of automtically believing what said in the media. What sort of moronic fan am I.

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
SandyB (IP Logged)
26 November, 2014 11:17
Wait for his autobiography then you latop genius!

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
De Times (IP Logged)
26 November, 2014 12:00
Quote:
gunnersingh
Well Plonky, answer me this, Why did Ferguson use the tactic of letting us having possession and then hitting us down are sides on the ccounter?
If you don't believe me, read his book.

So you think this is some form of mystery tactics that Wenger don't know? That's the whole idea about football you numpty, and every human being knows that.



"A club is a union between players, supporters and directors". - Wenger.
Arsene wenger has done an absolutely masterful job within the constraints he has... Every single year, he has outperformed our spending every single year he has been manager. It is extraordinary. -Gazides.

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
De Times (IP Logged)
26 November, 2014 12:17
There is one fact about life: in life, the truth can stand a million different arguments. Mallyx is single-handedly murdering everyone on this thread, with class and sound reasoning.



"A club is a union between players, supporters and directors". - Wenger.
Arsene wenger has done an absolutely masterful job within the constraints he has... Every single year, he has outperformed our spending every single year he has been manager. It is extraordinary. -Gazides.

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
Merlion96 (IP Logged)
26 November, 2014 13:29
Quote:
De Times
There is one fact about life: in life, the truth can stand a million different arguments. Mallyx is single-handedly murdering everyone on this thread, with class and sound reasoning.

What is truth?

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
SandyB (IP Logged)
26 November, 2014 14:01
Quote:
Merlion96
Quote:
De Times
There is one fact about life: in life, the truth can stand a million different arguments. Mallyx is single-handedly murdering everyone on this thread, with class and sound reasoning.


What is truth?
Trolling on behalf of DeTimes, you don't know the truth..gosh..Wenger is the best manager of the world, ever n some still belive that once he lives Arsenal all the teams in the world will queue up to get him! But to avoid the chaos he decided to stay at Arsenal which actually not that bad of a thing so to speak!

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
celine dion (IP Logged)
26 November, 2014 14:13
He's doing no such thing De Times he is regurgitating textbook One dimensional AKB dogma and when I get home from work I shall set some time aside to demonstrate why.

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
mallyx68 (IP Logged)
26 November, 2014 14:32
Quote:
celine dion
He's doing no such thing De Times he is regurgitating textbook One dimensional AKB dogma and when I get home from work I shall set some time aside to demonstrate why.

Looking forward to it winking smiley

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
mallyx68 (IP Logged)
26 November, 2014 14:47
Quote:
De Times
There is one fact about life: in life, the truth can stand a million different arguments. Mallyx is single-handedly murdering everyone on this thread, with class and sound reasoning.

Thanks Detimes thumbs down

We seem to have lost a few of our fellow posters such as Eduardo and Philly due to fatigue and exasperation of trying to make some posters see the light.

But I'm not ready to give up on these guys just, yet. (Sm73)

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
Beyond (IP Logged)
26 November, 2014 15:00
Quote:
De Times
Quote:
gunnersingh
Well Plonky, answer me this, Why did Ferguson use the tactic of letting us having possession and then hitting us down are sides on the ccounter?
If you don't believe me, read his book.

So you think this is some form of mystery tactics that Wenger don't know? That's the whole idea about football you numpty, and every human being knows that.
If he does know then why didn't he do anything about it? You just received a slap on your face.

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
gunnersingh (IP Logged)
26 November, 2014 18:19
Quote:
De Times
Quote:
gunnersingh
Well Plonky, answer me this, Why did Ferguson use the tactic of letting us having possession and then hitting us down are sides on the ccounter?
If you don't believe me, read his book.

So you think this is some form of mystery tactics that Wenger don't know? That's the whole idea about football you numpty, and every human being knows that.

If Wenger knew about it, why didn't he rectify it? Other clubs have clued up to it and use them same tactics.

you've just embarrassed yourself and your master, t wat.

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
celine dion (IP Logged)
26 November, 2014 19:14
Quote:
Celine Dion
It's pretty relevant as to whether you are paying customer of Arsenal FC Mally, in terms of what your views on Wenger may or may not be.

Mally : Total and utter BS.


Right, lets start with this. Its an absolutely fascinating reply to my fairly straightforward statement and I don’t really know what to make of it. Have you been on the stadium tour (assuming you know how to get to the stadium). On the stadium tour, you will be told perhaps 20-30 times, how Wenger designed the stadium, right down to where he blew a million pound on moving a pillar in the corner of the dressing room because it f*cked around with the feng shui. My point? Wenger has been allowed by various parties to BECOME a kind of physical manifestation of Arsenal football club. There are many reasons, in my view for this. But to boil things down, without listing them, various aspects of his management style, as well as his record prior to 2006, provided the club with 1. a marketing tool, linking heavily with the past and his perceived genius at ‘bring players through’ to keep people interested in the club whilst spending the bare minimum on players. 2. the wherewithal to maximise commercial/competition income whilst, yep, spending the bare minimum on players.

Now, you would have to be fairly daft to disregard Wengers achievements in the early period, lets say 2006-2009, in terms of qualifying for the CL whilst very hampered in the transfer market. So, yes, taking a very unsophisticated view of things, and not from the paying fans perspective, yes, he did very well.

However, if you were paying to go to more or less every home game during that period, as I was, it was even then, at that fairly early stage, that the problems began. Considering the Emirates was supposedly built to let everybody have a chance to get in, the seat prices started very high, and increased incrementally. This has reached the stage where staunch home and away Arsenal fans, like Tim Stillman for example, openly admit that they are being priced out of the game. I was priced out two years ago, although I return occasionally. But I will never again pay to attend regular matches at Arsenal FC unless there is a full scale revolution in the premier league. In the meantime, the treatment of paying fans has been appalling. Not only in terms of price, but also in terms of cynical little marketing cons along the way that only a regular paying fan would notice.

Then theres the PR – the club was VERY VERY careful to project an image of ambition and competition during these early years, via media communication to members and so on, and it was only when senior players started to very regularly leave the club, that this was seen to be very evidently a sham, culminating in very angry exchanges at board meetings and so on. This PR extended itself to actual signings. The Podolski signing was unique in that it was announced very very early, before the end of the previous season, when rumours about RVPs departure were rife, and his face appeared on all season ticket renewal merchandise around that period. Summer after summer, before 2012, major signings were either announced or pushed through before the renewal period, but further ones did not materialise once the fans had committed to the following season. Likewise the club would suddenly spring into action with major signings like Andre Arshavin, or Adebayor Diaby and Walcott in 2006, at xmas, if it looked like they might not qualify for the CL.
Nobody made the Arsenal owners during this early period scale their prices the way they did. They could have scoped things much more modestly, and honestly. People would still have turned up. Instead, via this rampant exploitation of its fans, and at the cost of several long term fans having been priced out, the club not only paid off the stadium debt but has stockpiled astronomical piles of cash which the current owner has started to cream off in ‘consultation fees’, whilst dismantling the fan ownership scheme.

There is nothing honourable or decent about any of this, it is rampant capitalism, plain and simple. If Wenger cannot see this, or chooses not to, if he is blind to the number of fans being driven from the club, in the name of ‘progress’, then this doesn’t do him any credit. Because, to return to the point I started with, he is practically the embodiment of Arsenal football club, perhaps the only manager in the history of football to be as involved as he is in the economics of their football club. And he isn’t doing it as some kind of philanthropic project either, he is being paid 8m a year. As far as I am concerned, its practically blood money.

All the while people have projected this image of Wenger as some kind of modern day footballing Ghandi, a man walking barefoot amongst his people, eschewing the ethics of modern day business. It’s permeated on twitter to the point of making me feel nauseous.

But leaving aside the way the fans have been treated, I cannot and will not accept that Wenger has achieved the ‘best of all possible worlds’ during his tenure since 2006. To constantly harp on, as Mally has done, about ‘sugar daddies’ is to ignore the actual practical events of several seasons under Wenger. The thing about Sugar Daddies, particular Abramovic, is that for every season where they get it right, there are other seasons where, largely due to their impetuous nature, they get things equally WRONG.

There have been seasons where Wenger has sat TOP of the league in January, season where he has been on the coat tails of the leaders until March, and where these seasons have then blown up due to the total pig headed obstinate refusal to alter GLARING problems with the team. For example, the continued presence of Almunia in goal, a goalkeeper who is now at Watford. So we had Robin Van Persie up one end of the pitch, banging in the best part of 30 goals a season, Barcelona target Fabregas in the middle, at the time one of Europes finest midfield prospects, and a defence comprising Philip Senderos, Djourou, or Almunia. These are the reasons the senior players left the club, they have more or less come out and said it. Wenger’s pig headedness continues to the present day. Can ANYONE explain why Wenger let Fabianski start last seasons cup final. What possible reason can there be to select your second choice keeper when you haven’t won a trophy for 10 years, with fans BAYING for a bit of silverware, and tickets changing hands for thousands of pounds. Can you name me ANY other football manager in the history of football who would do that. Without even listing other crassly daft things this so called Football genius has done, has there ever been a ‘arent I so clever I could just eat myself all up’ moment than that in modern football. And may I remind you that the defence was all over the shop in the first 10 minutes and conceded two goals to Hull. If Cazorla hadn’t hit a 40 yard free kick the like of which he’ll never hit again, then we may very well have been looking at another embarrassing cup final defeat to go with our PATHETIC display against relegated Birmingham a couple of years ago, or perhaps the league cup final defeat in 2005 where, oh, thats right, Wenger played the F*CKING RESERVE TEAM.

It just simply wont do to sit there, do a quick set of sums, and say ‘Wenger is managing the 4th richest club in the country thanks to Manchester United and those nasty sugar daddies, so he’s doing a GREAT JOB in coming 4th’. This is to disregard the RIDICULOUS performances that he has engineered over the last few years. May i remind you that the board has loosened the purse strings and allowed him to sign top drawer players like Sanchez and Ozil. So how the F*CK can you excuse rocking up to a reasonably average Chelsea side at the end of last season and getting smashed off the park 6-0. Or being 4-0 down at Anfield after about 20 minutes. How can this POSSIBLY be excused? Bad day at the office? Bit of bad luck? Nasty sandwiches on the coach made everyone feel a bit dicky? No, theres something WRONG. The same mistakes, the same disregard for defensive discipline, the same GLARING inconsistencies between the level of players in the team, mainly between attack and defence, have been plaguing the club for YEARS. What you dismiss as petulance Mally, petulant people throwing ‘tantrums’ after the latest defeat, like small unhappy children, is actually the culmination of disquiet about Wengers obstinacy and poor planning going back about 5 years. I voiced my first misgivings here, on this website, several years back, my articles can be seen in the archive section. I have had commendations about them from Tim Payton and Stillman, among others. It manifests itself in frustration because of the myth, the fictitious CONSTRUCT perpetrated by people like yourself every day, without reference to the commercial behaviour of the club, operating to this glib assumption that Wenger is somehow operating from a position of moral superiority, that he somehow represents some kind of anti establishment figure, when actually he profits from the established corporate nature of the premier league more than any individual, endless remuneration for commercial, not sporting achievement, without accountability to fans or even his employers. That isn’t sport, it’s against the very ETHOS of sport.

I also watch Southend. I have paid to watch many different lower league clubs and I would never DREAM of rallying against the management or board of those clubs, no matter how I perceive their performances or management. These are clubs operating in the normal footballing environment, within the standard ethos of sport. Continuous improvement, yearly targets, and an honest relationship with the fans. What you have at Arsenal is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT, and it is impossible to disregard Wenger’s part in the yearly exploitation of fans, OR, just as importantly, fans of the club having to write off season after season at the mid – point, as we are having to do now, despite having invested THOUSANDS of pounds, because of some hare-brained oversight by a manager who has been allowed to perpetrate his own cult of personality and has no accountability to anyone.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 26/11/2014 19:30 by celine dion.

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
mallyx68 (IP Logged)
26 November, 2014 22:32
Leaving aside the economic arguments which are largely your interpretation of events and dealing with the Wenger issues.

I will, however, admit tickets are scandalously high and it is a real shame when people who have been following the club are priced out of going regularly.

You criticise Wenger for not buying but Wenger has always been a manager to develop players. Players such as Van Persie, Fabregas, Walcott, Ramsey, Wilshere, Gibbs etc etc only developed into decent players by getting game time. If you start buying players at every crisis or anytime you think you just need that one more player or two, you essentially restrict the game time of these players and then therefor their development. If that player you bought doesn't work out you are still stuck with him and he will still be on your books and he will continue to hinder the development of younger players.

It's easy in hindsight to pick up what you perceive as errors based purely a narrow and limited view of the facts.

You ask if ANYONE can explain Fabiasnki starting the FA Cup Final? That's easy for me, he started most of the cup games and it was his saves in the semi-final shoot out that got us there. There was not/is not a lot between Fabianski and Szczesny and from what I remember neither of the two goals were his fault.

"Wenger is managing the 4th richest club in the country thanks to Manchester United and those nasty sugar daddies, so he’s doing a GREAT JOB in coming 4th"

Well consider on here he's being accused of underachieving, it's hardly that either is it.

"The same mistakes, the same disregard for defensive discipline, the same GLARING inconsistencies between the level of players in the team, mainly between attack and defence, have been plaguing the club for YEARS."

But we still had the 3rd best defence in the Premier League last year and the second best the year before that. It can't be THAT wrong.

What you dismiss as petulance Mally, petulant people throwing ‘tantrums’ after the latest defeat, like small unhappy children, is actually the culmination of disquiet about Wengers obstinacy and poor planning going back about 5 years.

No it isn't. It is the culmination of people listening to too much BS in the media about Arsenal. The media get very little real evidence from inside the club (and they hate that) so most of it is opinion portrayed as fact. Then people like yourself pick up on it thinking it confirms their own opinions about how so much is wrong with the club.

You also mention his salary as if he shouldn't be paid such a wage and should indeed behave more like a "kind of modern day footballing Ghandi". He is one of the best managers in the world and is paid accordingly.

I'm sorry you don't think Arsenal are being run like Southend but you are right is is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. The top Premier League clubs are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT to nearly every other club and nearly every other club would bite your hand off just to being the that group.They don't behave that way out of some moral compulsion, that is just naive thinking.

Fans want the club to buy the top players but renege at the club making money? So how are they to buy the top players if they can't make money? I know it's a shame fans get priced out of football but unfortunately, it is supply and demand. While the tickets are being sold and the stadium is relatively full, the prices will not come down.

What you seem to want is a Sugar Daddy to bank roll the club. I don't, I think it's refreshing one of the big clubs is trying to stand on their own two feet.

Maybe a Sugar Daddy is the way of modern sport these days though and Arsenal are just trying to operate an outmoded model.

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
celine dion (IP Logged)
26 November, 2014 23:05
No no no don't insult me by intimating that what I really want is that the club is run by someone with additional funds. I don't care how the club is run, what I want is a club that funds itself in correlation with honest pricing. That's completely different.

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
hippogunner (IP Logged)
27 November, 2014 08:05
What you dismiss as petulance Mally, petulant people throwing ‘tantrums’ after the latest defeat, like small unhappy children, is actually the culmination of disquiet about Wengers obstinacy and poor planning going back about 5 years.

No it isn't. It is the culmination of people listening to too much BS in the media about Arsenal. The media get very little real evidence from inside the club (and they hate that) so most of it is opinion portrayed as fact. Then people like yourself pick up on it thinking it confirms their own opinions about how so much is wrong with the club.


This is utter tripe from Mallyx. You do fans a complete disservice by coming up with such errant nonsense. You seem to think that those fans are like sheep lead by a vicious anti-Wenger media, as if they can't see the same issues every season, as if their eyes see only newsprint and not the same mistakes on the field season after season. Do you seriously think that fans who watch a game then patiently wait for the press's verdict to supply them with an opinion on what they've just witnessed?

How many knee jerk reactions, a phrase you AKB's love to cling to, does it take for you to realize that all those reactions add up to years of frustration? I lost faith in Wenger over seven years ago and I've had so many knee jerk reactions since then I've not gone a month without a black eye.

Don't underestimate the intelligence of fans and don't think you're some seer in the know. And you haven't responded to the absolute cult which has built up over the years and the very likely possibility that when this self-serving situation comes to an end the club will be rudderless because people at Arsenal can't think for themselves, that every thought has to be trademarked by Wenger, and when he's gone there'll be a lot of confused men in a ghostly boardroom.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 27/11/2014 08:07 by hippogunner.

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
De Times (IP Logged)
27 November, 2014 09:36
So Hippoguner, you actually believe the people at Arsenal are all "confused"? Only God can help you with that believe.



"A club is a union between players, supporters and directors". - Wenger.
Arsene wenger has done an absolutely masterful job within the constraints he has... Every single year, he has outperformed our spending every single year he has been manager. It is extraordinary. -Gazides.

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
Beyond (IP Logged)
27 November, 2014 09:56
If De Times and Mallyx68 are a tag team in WWE, they would have been called The Delusional.

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
hippogunner (IP Logged)
27 November, 2014 12:10
@De Nial, if Chips Keswick can come up with that crazy statement about trusting in Wenger having a plan A and if he doesn't have a plan B then we do nothing, then yes there might well be lots of confused men because that's no way to run a business, let alone a football club, although one has to wonder which takes precedence at Arsenal. If that's an indication of the level of competence at board level then we should be worried.

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
mallyx68 (IP Logged)
27 November, 2014 12:19
Quote:
hippogunner
You seem to think that those fans are like sheep lead by a vicious anti-Wenger media...

Yes, that is exactly what I believe.

Quote:
hippogunner
Do you seriously think that fans who watch a game then patiently wait for the press's verdict to supply them with an opinion on what they've just witnessed?

Their opinions are largely dictated by what is in the media, yes. Not per single game but as a generalisation of attitude, yes, very much.

Quote:
hippogunner
How many knee jerk reactions, a phrase you AKB's love to cling to, does it take for you to realize that all those reactions add up to years of frustration?

They are knee-jerk reactions, I try not to put any importance to them.

Quote:
hippogunner
I lost faith in Wenger over seven years ago

I'll let Celine answer that one...

Quote:
Celine Dion
Now, you would have to be fairly daft to disregard Wengers achievements in the early period, lets say 2006-2009...

Quote:
hippogunner
Don't underestimate the intelligence of fans...

I don't but I think you've just done an ample demonstration of the level.

Quote:
Hippogunner
...self-serving situation comes to an end the club will be rudderless because people at Arsenal can't think for themselves, that every thought has to be trademarked by Wenger, and when he's gone there'll be a lot of confused men in a ghostly boardroom

There is nothing self serving about it but when a manager leaves after such a long period of time you are quite entitled to expect some upheal (see Man Utd post Ferguson)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 27/11/2014 15:13 by mallyx68.

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
mallyx68 (IP Logged)
27 November, 2014 12:22
Quote:
hippogunner
because that's no way to run a business, let alone a football club

Please enlighten us then, on the best way to run a business and/or a football club.

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
celine dion (IP Logged)
27 November, 2014 14:02
I havent read any kind of newspaper piece on Arsenal in about 5 years. The odd blog perhaps, yes.

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
mallyx68 (IP Logged)
27 November, 2014 15:11
Newspapers, Tv, Radio, Blogs... it matters not.

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
celine dion (IP Logged)
27 November, 2014 15:16
So what you are saying is that all the things I have written on this and the other thread, or in the archive, are put in my head by the media, and without the media, I would think everything was absolutely OK.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 27/11/2014 15:52 by celine dion.

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
mallyx68 (IP Logged)
27 November, 2014 15:37
You have been be infuenced by the media's negativity, yes.

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
BootyDaddy (IP Logged)
27 November, 2014 17:49
Some might say you have been influenced by Wenger and the other muppets running the club though mighten they?

You seem to think that charging their fans more money than any other fans in the world to achieve mediocrity is acceptable.



Albert Einstein once said: "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
celine dion (IP Logged)
27 November, 2014 19:22
Much as I enjoy being told why I think things by the amateur psychology department of the AKB society, it's all a bit silly. Reason being, I was writing stuff on here about how Wenger was doing my head in, long before the mainstream media jumped on the bandwagon. Check the archive Mally, my feature articles are all in there. At this time, most of the media were still banging on about how Wenger invented broccoli and the concept of having a youth team. They've really only turned on him in the last 2-3 years.

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
Padre Pio (IP Logged)
27 November, 2014 23:02
he gets an easier ride from the press than most managers.



- until Wenger moves on, they'll always be the also-rans in the major competitions. A club in elite purgatory. Always good enough to make it to the big race, never fast or smart enough to push over the finish line in first place. That's all about the manager. Until he changes, Arsenal fans will continue to celebrate glorious failure.

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
BootyDaddy (IP Logged)
27 November, 2014 23:42
I've wanted him out for at least half a decade. He's rats.hit.



Albert Einstein once said: "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
hippogunner (IP Logged)
28 November, 2014 08:09
Quote:
mallyx68
You have been be infuenced by the media's negativity, yes.

This rather tells me more about you than me. You're the one who actually takes the media seriously, not me, not Celine.

I only read one newspaper, on a sunday. I very rarely listen to the radio, at least not sport on the radio, only music.

Don't tell me I have reached conclusions about what I've seen on the pitch by listening to the media. I grew up in the punk era sunshine, where every word of authority I questioned, from teachers to the police to the government to the press. I'm not interested in what the media says, I prefer to read novels, none of which have ever criticized Arsene Wenger, they're usually concerned with loftier issues.

As for a successful business model, you've got what you want matey, because that's what Arsenal are. If you ask me how I'd make them a successful football club I'd tell you that I would have gently told Mr. Wenger to leave the building and replaced him with Mourinho, a man who's only purpose is to win medals, not ensure that door knobs are pointing east or whatever according to some Eastern mysticism.

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
hippogunner (IP Logged)
28 November, 2014 08:18
Quote:
celine dion
Much as I enjoy being told why I think things by the amateur psychology department of the AKB society, it's all a bit silly. Reason being, I was writing stuff on here about how Wenger was doing my head in, long before the mainstream media jumped on the bandwagon. Check the archive Mally, my feature articles are all in there. At this time, most of the media were still banging on about how Wenger invented broccoli and the concept of having a youth team. They've really only turned on him in the last 2-3 years.

Hear, hear. I was telling people I wanted him gone back in 2007. I don't think the media shared my view back then. As long ago as 2003 when we lost to Valencia in the CL I said to a friend of mine that we'd never win the CL under Wenger, I thought that achievement was beyond his capabilities and if you check I don't think he's won it yet. How many times has he tried now?

I was under another name on this site years ago saying he should leave but of course I must have had my instructions from the media, the majority of which back then were probably still supportive.

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
De Times (IP Logged)
28 November, 2014 08:22
Quote:
Padre Pio
he gets an easier ride from the press than most managers.
The biggest lie ever told on here.
And I think it's true that most fans are influenced by what they read in the media.



"A club is a union between players, supporters and directors". - Wenger.
Arsene wenger has done an absolutely masterful job within the constraints he has... Every single year, he has outperformed our spending every single year he has been manager. It is extraordinary. -Gazides.

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
mallyx68 (IP Logged)
28 November, 2014 11:35
Quote:
Booty Daddy
You seem to think that charging their fans more money than any other fans in the world to achieve mediocrity is acceptable.

It's not mediocrity though is it. It may not be the haul of silverware we all wished but it ain't mediocrity.

17 consecutive years of Champions League football is not mediocrity. Take a look around Europe and see how many other clubs have acheieved that.

Again, you have got so used to a high level being delivered you begin to think it's the norm. It isn't.

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
mallyx68 (IP Logged)
28 November, 2014 11:39
Quote:
celine dion
Much as I enjoy being told why I think things by the amateur psychology department of the AKB society, it's all a bit silly. Reason being, I was writing stuff on here about how Wenger was doing my head in, long before the mainstream media jumped on the bandwagon. Check the archive Mally, my feature articles are all in there. At this time, most of the media were still banging on about how Wenger invented broccoli and the concept of having a youth team. They've really only turned on him in the last 2-3 years.

I love the way you write, you make me smile often, it a nice way. smiling smiley

Fair enough Celine, I'll take your word for it. You write intelligently enough for me to take your word that this is genuinely the conclusion you have reached. Although I disagree with your conclusion ofc. I do enjoy engaging you in a debate unlike most of the other posters who just seem to frsutrate me.

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
mallyx68 (IP Logged)
28 November, 2014 11:41
Quote:
Hippogunner
As long ago as 2003 when we lost to Valencia in the CL I said to a friend of mine that we'd never win the CL under Wenger

And yet three years later we went within 14 minutes of actually winning it.

Good call.

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
hippogunner (IP Logged)
28 November, 2014 12:12
But we didn't win it did we? So it was a good call, thanks. And how many times have we reached the final since? So what's your point?

And it looks like you accept that Celine can think for himself. You might accept that some people don't give a jot what the media says, they make their own conclusions.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 28/11/2014 12:13 by hippogunner.

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
De Times (IP Logged)
28 November, 2014 14:46
Celine is actually one of the most intelligent persons on here, I enjoy reading his post more than that of everyone else. Celine is very reasonable. Most others though are not capable of using their brain.



"A club is a union between players, supporters and directors". - Wenger.
Arsene wenger has done an absolutely masterful job within the constraints he has... Every single year, he has outperformed our spending every single year he has been manager. It is extraordinary. -Gazides.

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
Big Guhnz (IP Logged)
28 November, 2014 14:53
I think mally & de @#$%& are the same people pure wenger fart breathers it's disgusting to see the cult thing needs to stop this 8 different logins thing is crayfish

It makes you feel any dialog with these people is just beyond pointless

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
celine dion (IP Logged)
28 November, 2014 18:37
Quote:
mallyx68
Quote:
celine dion
Much as I enjoy being told why I think things by the amateur psychology department of the AKB society, it's all a bit silly. Reason being, I was writing stuff on here about how Wenger was doing my head in, long before the mainstream media jumped on the bandwagon. Check the archive Mally, my feature articles are all in there. At this time, most of the media were still banging on about how Wenger invented broccoli and the concept of having a youth team. They've really only turned on him in the last 2-3 years.

I love the way you write, you make me smile often, it a nice way. smiling smiley

Fair enough Celine, I'll take your word for it. You write intelligently enough for me to take your word that this is genuinely the conclusion you have reached. Although I disagree with your conclusion ofc. I do enjoy engaging you in a debate unlike most of the other posters who just seem to frsutrate me.

Thank you Mally, and thank you De Times, for the kind words. Of course, I have no personal issue with any of you, we should still all be friends.

In fact I have a certain begrudging admiration for the AKBs anyway. Like valiant sailors, on the deck of a sinking ship, pluckily saluting their beloved leader, whilst the ocean starts to lap over the deck, and fill the corridoors down below.

I have enormous respect particularly for De Times, someone who has dedicated a sum total of weeks, perhaps even months or years of his life, to writing minutely detailed diatribes on this forum, painstakingly constructing incredibly convulted justifications for his various pro-Wenger theories, only for most persons to see his name at the top of the post, and completely ignore them.

After all, we all support Arsenal. If we were to meet in the pub we'd probably get the Wenger stuff out of the way in the first 5 minutes, then spend the rest of the time talking about the fun we have had following football. It is, after all, only 22 men kicking a white ball around a pitch. If we were disagreeing about politics, or justice, or poverty, then I might take all this far more personally. As it is, it should only ever be regarded as fun, a sport. thats all it is.

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
Padre Pio (IP Logged)
28 November, 2014 18:45
Its just like Xmas day in the trenches. You didnt write that Sainsbury ad did you Celine?
I do approve its far better to discuss than name call.
I often agrre with De Times he is right Sanchez is the EPL player of season so far.
One of the reasons being he has to as Wenger has such a weak squad



- until Wenger moves on, they'll always be the also-rans in the major competitions. A club in elite purgatory. Always good enough to make it to the big race, never fast or smart enough to push over the finish line in first place. That's all about the manager. Until he changes, Arsenal fans will continue to celebrate glorious failure.

 
Re: Where are the Wenger apologists?
Merlion96 (IP Logged)
27 February, 2018 21:19
Lovely thread.



"Coming together is a beginning. Keeping together is progress. Working together is a success.”
Henry Ford

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