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I dont care who leaves
gooney (IP Logged)
17 May, 2012 20:00
I care about who comes in. So far the players we have already proved they are not good enough and most importantly have weak mentality.

So if rvp wanna leave, sell him abroad and get another striker. 8 years the guy has been fir 18 months

 
Re: I dont care who leaves
RadioFreeArsenal (IP Logged)
17 May, 2012 20:04
Oh dearie the brain-meat's off then. eh?

 
Re: I dont care who leaves
tigerline (IP Logged)
17 May, 2012 20:06
After the pounding that he took this year, RVP WILL break down next year, if not sooner.

he played the full 90 minutes in 34 league matches, including the last 28 in a row.

If we get big money for him AND SPEND IT WISELY to strengthen the club, I will understand wenger not signing him here.

 
Re: I dont care who leaves
flynchstone (IP Logged)
17 May, 2012 20:08
He's arsenal's 8th all time top goal scorer, this has been his best season by far and he has been plagued by injury but he has undoubtedly made more contribution than the last 18 months. If he stays beyond this season he should make it fourth at least, could realistically achieve second.

 
Re: I dont care who leaves
RadioFreeArsenal (IP Logged)
17 May, 2012 20:26
Quote:
tigerline
If we get big money for him AND SPEND IT WISELY to strengthen the club, I will understand wenger not signing him here.

Excellent point, Tiger. No man is bigger than the club and no player is absolutely irreplacable. This however is the crux of the issue, How many times since 2005 have we done that with all of the top-flight players we have sold or let leave for free?

What's that saying "One time is luck, twice is coincidence, three times is a pattern..." Well what is a dozen times or more even then?

 
Re: I dont care who leaves
tigerline (IP Logged)
17 May, 2012 20:29
Quote:
RadioFreeArsenal
Quote:
tigerline
If we get big money for him AND SPEND IT WISELY to strengthen the club, I will understand wenger not signing him here.

Excellent point, Tiger. No man is bigger than the club and no player is absolutely irreplacable. This however is the crux of the issue, How many times since 2005 have we done that with all of the top-flight players we have sold or let leave for free?

What's that saying "One time is luck, twice is coincidence, three times is a pattern..." Well what is a dozen times or more even then?

"AND SPEND IT WISELY ..."

That, we have NOT done well and that simply HAS to change.

 
Re: I dont care who leaves
RadioFreeArsenal (IP Logged)
17 May, 2012 20:32
Agreed my point was that should we have confidence this time will be any different. I hate to say it but no matter who is responsible I really don't have any confidence that it will change now. I hope I am wrong of course but I have hoped I was wrong at least dozen times.

 
Re: I dont care who leaves
tigerline (IP Logged)
17 May, 2012 20:34
I guess that I am just an unabashed optimist.
(Sm134)

 
Re: I dont care who leaves
RadioFreeArsenal (IP Logged)
17 May, 2012 20:46
Curse you unabashed optimists(Sm137) Be gone! Leave this place you haunt!!

 
Re: I dont care who leaves
Shane (IP Logged)
18 May, 2012 02:35
I don't want anybody to leave. We haven't added to the squad for a long time, we've just replaced and/or promoted somebody of sub-standard quality.

What good is that? We're in a stationary position, f*ck knows how we haven't dropped out of the top four but why settle for that? We actually haven't got a bad side but it's never in a million years gonna be a great side unless the squad is strengthened ie adding to it, not replacing Van Persie with Giroud or whoever cuz that isn't strengthening sh*t because Van Persie's replacement whoever he is isn't gonna score 37 goals next season.

We aren't a million miles away but we might aswell be because Arsene obviously see's things very differently than us unfortunately.

 
Re: I dont care who leaves
Amit_rulesworld (IP Logged)
18 May, 2012 02:38
But it is more important that who must leave.


You know the names.
Walcot ramse gervinho almumia fabi bentner arshavin squijaki

 
Re: I dont care who leaves
Shane (IP Logged)
18 May, 2012 02:44
When I said I didn't want anyone to leave I meant anybody whose contributed to the season or like Jack and Abou who have been physically unable to contribute.

So your Chamakh's and your Squillaci's, and the half dozen arrseholes we've got out on loan.

It'll be a fucken miracle if we manage to shift even half the players none of us want here.

 
Re: I dont care who leaves
Mad Jens (IP Logged)
18 May, 2012 03:44
Shane's right.

The deadwood goes without saying, with the exception of Amit I think we all know Chamakh and Vela aren't the answer.

We have to keep the current quality (and we do have quality players) and add.

 
Re: I dont care who leaves
ArsenalForever (IP Logged)
18 May, 2012 04:04
i really dont get van persie

he had 1 year to think about this yet he wants more time to think over it? i give 2 @#$%& about him being arsenal through and through no matter what happens...that is just @#$%& pr talk to make fans happy

if this guy doesnt sign a contract then @#$%& him....wenger in no way can keep him in our team and keep him as our captain if he doesnt sign that contract

 
Re: I dont care who leaves
Mad Jens (IP Logged)
18 May, 2012 04:16
So you'd rather strip his captaincy and then bench him, then let him leave for free next year.

Smart.

Look, this is Robin's job. We get a lot of pleasure out of watching him play because he's damn good at his job, but he has every right to negotiate his salary on the back of a fantastic season like he's had.

For my money Robin has been one of Arsenal's best captains in many years. The man has fire in his belly, gives his all on the pitch, always makes sure to give the lap of appreciation and let the fans know they're wanted, half the time his first action on scoring is to go over to the guy that gave him the assist. He's immaculate in interviews, leads by example on the field and off it...

I'm not about to blow the man but I'm just well short of it. For people to say he's not done enough or is being disrespectful at present is bollox. Personally I think he'll sign but even if he doesn't, he's given us a fantastic year, we'll get some money out of (let's be honest) a pretty injury prone player, and AFC will march on regardless.

But don't slag the man off.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 18/05/2012 04:20 by Mad Jens.

 
Re: I dont care who leaves
RadioFreeArsenal (IP Logged)
18 May, 2012 04:27
So if we don't have adequate replacemnet and finish out opf top four what does that sort of stand that might make sense in the 1970's make now?

I understand the sentiment but given our reticence to invest in players from outside the Club now and how much more costly and difficult and unlikely it would be without CL football on top of our miserly spending does that really make sense?

Our policy is eating us alive and denying us any way out of that nightmare.

If we finish fifth building a yteam capable of finishing top four after the departures that surely will happen will cost sonewhere near 100 million pounds and a even more radical restructuring of our wages than we need to make now, because you are goign to have a nightmare attracting top players to a club that is not merely out of contnetion to win the Premiership but isn't even in the CL and will sacrifice both domestic cups to try and regain fourth and which is losing even more quality because of this unless you pay really big wages. REALLY big wages and bigger transfer fees too.

How can any Board or owner be looking ahead to, protect the Club's long-term interest when the decision not to spend an extra 40 million pounds every seven years could force rthe club to spend an extra 100 million pounds on top of that 40 million it doesn't really have or shouldn't really have to spend have in subsequent years?e

And the only other choice if we don't spend that money in that instance - mid-table mediocirty for an indefinite amount of time. That is not optimism certainly nor is it pessimism. It's reality. Pessimism would be to say we will definitely go without a Championship as long as s***s have or longer or are all but certain to be relegated.

 
Re: I dont care who leaves
Mad Jens (IP Logged)
18 May, 2012 04:32
Chelsea and Liverpool spent consistently more than us and finished well behind us.

You can talk CL or Tin Cup but let's be honest, Chelsea isn't winning the CL Saturday with half a team and Liverpool's tin cup still got Dalglish sacked.

It's not how much money you spend it's how you spend it. And with the current players ("players" meaning financial powers/teams) in the transfer market you're going to get nothing but debt and disappointment by trying to muscle your way in.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 18/05/2012 04:33 by Mad Jens.

 
Re: I dont care who leaves
Moe (IP Logged)
18 May, 2012 04:50
You lot are the most annoying fans I've seen. You don't mind if Van Persie leaves? Van Persie, our best player by miles, arguably our only world class player, the top goal scorer of the season with @#$%& 38 goals! A player who coaches, players and fans around the world are drooling over in envy and admiration. Plus, you're all aware that if Van Persie leaves Podolski will be his replacement? Maybe with another striker signed to make up the numbers. Podolski is quality but he's no Van Persie, trust me, we need him to stay.

 
Re: I dont care who leaves
Moe (IP Logged)
18 May, 2012 04:52
30 goals*

 
Re: I dont care who leaves
Aussie_Matt (IP Logged)
18 May, 2012 04:53
I want to keep RVP for 1 main reason, perception.

A mate asked me today where RVP will play next season to which I answered arsenal. He personally believes Man city or Barca because Arsenal always sell there best players.

We need to keep our best players. We dont need to spend billions on new players but we cant sell 1 or 2 of our best every year.

As I see PV4 said in the papers what are player like Jack going to think if RVP leaves?

 
Re: I dont care who leaves
Mad Jens (IP Logged)
18 May, 2012 05:03
Jack? Let's be real here, the kid should be fecking stoked to be so loved, by such a big team, at such an age. If he has problems staying here after a year out injured then player power is well and truly out of hand.

Barca already said they don't want Robin because our valuation is probably too high, and most people don't need an aging, injury prone CF anyways.

Slag me off if you want but Robin's not worth as much as some people think he is. It's of mutual benefit to him and the club if he stays.

 
Re: I dont care who leaves
RadioFreeArsenal (IP Logged)
18 May, 2012 05:07
Jens you're absolutely on the right track, but I think you're being overly simplistic.

I would say its a matter needing to spend more though not necessarily a lot more and every bit as importantly to spend it that much more intelligently - particularly regarding our wage structure.And the longer the club waits to do this the more money it will in all likelihood cost the club. Possibly much much more.

 
Re: I dont care who leaves
gooney (IP Logged)
18 May, 2012 06:20
There is no way he can stay as a captain and not sign a contract. Im sorry, but he will have no credibilty. Can you imagine him having a go at a player and giving their all for the team, they will just say why dont you do it. Dont you dare to talk about commitment when you are not committed.

He has to be sold abroad. I rather take 15 million for him from Real than 30 from City. The guy is a snake, he should be man enough to come out and say I wanna leave.

Also funny how he is seen as this great guy, his pr team has really done great job. But i remember him cheating of his wife few years ago while she was pregnant....feck him.

Im tired of this weak characters playing for the club

 
Re: I dont care who leaves
Blaine (IP Logged)
18 May, 2012 06:28
This is one thing I guess I can agree with Gooney... that it really doesn't matter who leaves, even if it's Van Persie. In recent years many of our best players have been sold and we still carried on. I've also learned since Fabregas, not to get attached to any player. I enjoy watching and being entertained by them while the are playing for Arsenal, but no hard feels if they feel like they want to move on. The club will go on. As for us seeking to win trophies. That's whole other story...

 
Re: I dont care who leaves
RadioFreeArsenal (IP Logged)
18 May, 2012 06:30
Maybe if you worried more about the strngth of charatcter of the people running the Club we might not be where we are now.

Seriously some of you you show more love respect and adoration to the millionaires who take more money from you than you can afford put less than they can afford into the team you pay that money for all solely so they could make even more money that they just want to have than they already have.

And you really would rather hate the players and manager who are primarily responsible for all the pleasure you have derived from Arsenal and football than question those millionaires character and motives. Borders on twisted really.

 
Re: I dont care who leaves
Bergmars (IP Logged)
18 May, 2012 07:15
Quote:
Mad Jens
So you'd rather strip his captaincy and then bench him, then let him leave for free next year.
Smart.

Look, this is Robin's job. We get a lot of pleasure out of watching him play because he's damn good at his job, but he has every right to negotiate his salary on the back of a fantastic season like he's had.

For my money Robin has been one of Arsenal's best captains in many years. The man has fire in his belly, gives his all on the pitch, always makes sure to give the lap of appreciation and let the fans know they're wanted, half the time his first action on scoring is to go over to the guy that gave him the assist. He's immaculate in interviews, leads by example on the field and off it...

I'm not about to blow the man but I'm just well short of it. For people to say he's not done enough or is being disrespectful at present is bollox. Personally I think he'll sign but even if he doesn't, he's given us a fantastic year, we'll get some money out of (let's be honest) a pretty injury prone player, and AFC will march on regardless.

But don't slag the man off.
The only part of this I do not agree with is that he will sign.


DB10,the best.

 
Re: I dont care who leaves
hippogunner (IP Logged)
18 May, 2012 07:26
Quote:
Mad Jens
Chelsea and Liverpool spent consistently more than us and finished well behind us.
You can talk CL or Tin Cup but let's be honest, Chelsea isn't winning the CL Saturday with half a team and Liverpool's tin cup still got Dalglish sacked.

It's not how much money you spend it's how you spend it. And with the current players ("players" meaning financial powers/teams) in the transfer market you're going to get nothing but debt and disappointment by trying to muscle your way in.

Yes it's how you spend it. And seeing as we have plenty of money and a manager many of you still believe in why be cautious about spending it?

How do you know Chelsea aren't winning the CL? Do you know anything about sport? There have been many times when underdogs win matches. The amount of deluded people who trot this nonsense out. Makes you wonder why games get played if you all know the outcome.

 
Re: I dont care who leaves
RadioFreeArsenal (IP Logged)
18 May, 2012 07:35
Have to agree Hippo

Youn get this argument all the time from the non-spending defenders. Spending money doesn't guarantee winning things. We don't have a divine right to win trophies..."

And all that is accurate though they don't mention how much better your chances to win things are and the likelihood of winning trophies is depending on what you spedn either on transfers or in wages.

And then the same people will say "If we just stay patient and follow the current policy we will be the biggest and best club in England, Europe, and the World especially after the stadium is paid off...."

They are guaranteeing success after they insist it cannot be guaranteed.


Again its bizarre really.

 
Re: I dont care who leaves
gooney (IP Logged)
18 May, 2012 08:12
If e didnt fall out of the top four this season, i really dont think we will next season. wengers team has always enough attacking football going for them to get around 70 points.

Also there is always someone stepping up. Cesc did it, nasri did, adebayor did it and rvp has done it. It will just open the door for someone else

 
Re: I dont care who leaves
karsene16 (IP Logged)
18 May, 2012 08:39
Quote:
RadioFreeArsenal
Maybe if you worried more about the strngth of charatcter of the people running the Club we might not be where we are now.
Seriously some of you you show more love respect and adoration to the millionaires who take more money from you than you can afford put less than they can afford into the team you pay that money for all solely so they could make even more money that they just want to have than they already have.

And you really would rather hate the players and manager who are primarily responsible for all the pleasure you have derived from Arsenal and football than question those millionaires character and motives. Borders on twisted really.

No one said they were in love with the board.

Why not put any blame on the manager?

1.He buys his own players.

2. He's made a lot of money in player sales.

3. His footballing philosophy in place.

4. We've spend 30mil more than Newcastle in the last 2 seasons. 35mil more than spuds.

5. He's been at the club long enough to build the direction.



http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e232/karsene/cutmypic.png

 
Re: I dont care who leaves
Mad Jens (IP Logged)
18 May, 2012 18:24
Quote:
RadioFreeArsenal
Have to agree Hippo
Youn get this argument all the time from the non-spending defenders. Spending money doesn't guarantee winning things. We don't have a divine right to win trophies..."

And all that is accurate though they don't mention how much better your chances to win things are and the likelihood of winning trophies is depending on what you spedn either on transfers or in wages.

And then the same people will say "If we just stay patient and follow the current policy we will be the biggest and best club in England, Europe, and the World especially after the stadium is paid off...."

They are guaranteeing success after they insist it cannot be guaranteed.


Again its bizarre really.

I'm not defending a no-spend policy. Not at all, numble cakes.

I just don't think throwing a money figure at the problem solves anything. Spending 100m doesn't do anything, but buying the right players for the squad does even if you only spend 10.

@Hippo: Chelsea won't have John Terry, Ivanovic, Ramires, Meireles, Malouda, Mikel, and potentially neither Cahill or Luis.

In short, Chelsea isn't playing the CL final, Chelsea reserves is. I'm no fortune teller but I'll place some money with you on it if you want.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 18/05/2012 18:32 by Mad Jens.

 
Re: I dont care who leaves
RadioFreeArsenal (IP Logged)
18 May, 2012 18:58
Quote:
karsene16
No one said they were in love with the board.

Oh please the forum and every other is full of impassioned defenders of the Board as honest brokers with no more interest than simply seeing that our little football club is protetced from all the monsters in the woods and that the fact theatn they made 400 million pouinds in large part because of our decline on the pitch(the decreased investment investment that brought it about) by coincidence accident, luck, in spite of themselves or the manager or even against their will.

Come on. The Board and all it represents and symbolizes is a Gooner's Father Christmas something many gooners wnat to believe in more than Arsenal itself


Quote:
karsene16
Why not put any blame on the manager?

There is certainly blame to be placed on Arsene Wenger-just not the blame you think.



Quote:
karsene16
1.He buys his own players.?

From a vastly reduced pool of talent than from 1998-2005. And while that certainly has a good deal to do with Chelsea and now City only a fool would say it has nothing to do with our reductions in vestment in the team which have narrowed that already reduced pool of talent we can recruit from even further than those big-money clubs have done.



Quote:
karsene16
2. He's made a lot of money in player sales.


Are you suggesting Arsene Wenger is taking bungs? Because that is how that reads.Moreover even if you are simply referring to annual wages that shows he is being paid not to invest in the team and has been by the Board for some time who turned around and manipulated the money he didn't spend into 400 million pounds for themselves.


Quote:
karsene16
3. His footballing philosophy in place.

Is it though or is it a cobbled-together philosophy to cover for A Board which has misled supporters about its plans and the motives behind them?. Look at the facts from 1998-2005 Arsene Wenger annually spent 11 pounds [b]more than he has from the summer of 2005 on. Notice we won our last trophy in May 2005. Funny that.

So why the change in both transfer and wage policy right at that time which coincides with the Board pursuing a project and borrowing 130 million beyond the 260 million we already owed banks to pursue a project that increased the share price on its own by 40 to 45% from 2009-2011. A project that so far has only paid the loan borrowed to undertake and has not aidded in keeping one current player or signing one new player or even in reducing our total long-term debt beyong its own cost. Curious timing to say the very least.



Quote:
karsene16
4. We've spend 30mil more than Newcastle in the last 2 seasons. 35mil more than spuds.

I would check those figures again. We haven't spent anything. Our net spend isn't even zero. We have made profits and fairly significant profits because we have taken in a fair bit more money than we have paid out and sold more quality out than we have brought in certainly. And just imagine had we lost 3-2 or 4-2 instead at Old Trafford we wouldn't have even spent what we did the last day. Which would make your claim rightly look even more specuiuos than it does here.

Quote:
karsene16
5. He's been at the club long enough to build the direction.

So then he was building that direction from 1996-2005 as well, no?

Then why just change it if you don't have to if it is so successful?

And why would the Board let him change it the Club's success on the pitch was their main concern?

Better still why wouldn't they he instructed him to change this direction once they saw it was failing, never mind five or six years after they first saw that it was failing?

Unless of course he was acting as they instructed or heartily approved and in either case than the bulk of responsibility lies with the Bord he is their employee after all.Or is this another tale of how locks them in the Board room and holds their families hostage so they can't sack him?




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 19/05/2012 16:19 by RadioFreeArsenal.

 
Re: I dont care who leaves
hippogunner (IP Logged)
19 May, 2012 14:05
Mad Jens, Chelsea still have a reasonable team. Would you have bet money on Greece winning the Euros?

How about us losing to Hull a few seasons ago. Did you expect that?

Very few matches are resolved before kick off. I'm not saying Chelsea will win but I'm also not dumb enough to dismiss them and I only hope Bayern don't have the same attitude as you.

 
Re: I dont care who leaves
Mad Jens (IP Logged)
19 May, 2012 14:42
I'm also not the one taking everything literally.

Obviously there's a chance. But I play the odds, because Hull City don't beat us that often... if you catch my drift.


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