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This is the board where Arsenal fans can discuss all things Arsenal, and any other football issues that they feel are of interest to Gunners. Opposition fans are welcome, but remember this board is from an Arsenal point of view. Off Topic Discussion should take place on the Off Topic Forum. Off Topic discussion will be removed. Any topic that is football related, within reason, is not off topic.


See THIS is the issue
RadioFreeArsenal (IP Logged)
12 May, 2012 01:12
I just saw a post calling Arsene Wenger "senile"

Now I shan't name the poster because he - or she so I don't offend everyone possible - may have been joking in fairness to them, but to me this is everything wrong with Arsenal and what is happening at Arsenal.

The decline at Arsenal has not simply poisoned the last seven years but it has poisoned and in poisoning the years before that and everyone involved in those years especially the Manager.

And we don't know for certain who is actually responsible -. None of us.Including me - a strong as views are and strong as the evidence we all can see if want to supporting them is.

And to wrongly turn so viruently on a manager or certain players when clearly it is possible the problems are in fact someone else's responsibility and of other individuals making is just plain wrong. It is no different than if any of us are blamed for something we are not at fault for. Do you actually think it's right to knowing blame someone for something they did not do? Or even may not have done?

Not only does seeking the easy way out by blaming the wrong people reflect more on the people who choose to do that than anyone else and allows the present to remain poisoned as it is but it threatens to pison both past and future.

The past by letting our increasing virulence blind us to all the positive things that took place before even if we don't want or intend that. I saw another post again I won't name the poster that asked what is the one common factor at Arsenal since 2005? And they answered Arsene Wenger. Problem is if that is true isn't that the case from 1998-2005? And doesn't that mean we need to really examine the club as a awhole including the Board's policies if only to clarify what the problem that arose in 2005 actually is?

And if we continue to ignore those haunting questions now and moving forward again settling for the expedient answers then why would the Club if the fault lies with the Club and those running it, change anything for the better if they can continue making money without doing so? And isn't that just what we are risking doing by keeping our heads in the sand?

And the result will be not only is it unlikely we will will ever see an era like 1998-2005 at Arsenal again or aeven approaching those years, but we won't even be able to enjoy those truly halcyon years we should and so richly deserve to.

Is that truly worth preserving the idealized vison orf Arsenal as some sort of representative of Upper Class honourability and even moral superiority? Should we give up everything for that? They haven't given up anything really other than 11 million pounds between them.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/05/2012 01:15 by RadioFreeArsenal.

 
Re: See THIS is the issue
PKGooner (IP Logged)
12 May, 2012 01:21
As long as the manager keeps saying there is money available - which he chooses to not spend, he'll keep getting the flack - rightly so.

Even if there isn't any money available - he sets up the team, he chooses the tactics, he makes the subtitutions, he (supposedly) motivates them.

People are right to have issue with him.

 
Re: See THIS is the issue
Merlion96 (IP Logged)
12 May, 2012 01:25
reculer pour mieux souter.

 
Re: See THIS is the issue
gunnersingh (IP Logged)
12 May, 2012 01:50
Les absents ont toujours tort!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/05/2012 10:02 by gunnersingh.

 
Re: See THIS is the issue
RadioFreeArsenal (IP Logged)
12 May, 2012 02:43
Nice try Merl I prefer "retreat to advance" myself from Lenin.

Either way its bull and you know it and you are happy to accept in wrongly blame others for its consequbnces because what Arsenal and its Board stand for is more important to you thatn Arsenal Football Club.

And even if you though that was a what was actually happening you would not makee such fierce condemnations of the manager because you would know the Club and the Board had made the choice to move backward in order to move forward.

If that is the case no one can be responsible for the consequences but the Club and the Board because they made that decision. Yet you hammer at the manager his character and reputation on a daily basis So which is it?

Or is it that you are happy to be betrayed by the Board now to preseve what you thought the Board was? Is preserving their perceived superiority of intellect and character and by proxy perhaps your own for supporting them more important than what is best for Arsenal Merl?

 
Re: See THIS is the issue
RadioFreeArsenal (IP Logged)
12 May, 2012 02:47
Quote:
PKGooner
As long as the manager keeps saying there is money available - which he chooses to not spend, he'll keep getting the flack - rightly so.
Even if there isn't any money available - he sets up the team, he chooses the tactics, he makes the subtitutions, he (supposedly) motivates them.

People are right to have issue with him.

But we should have no issue with why he has no money and happily support a Board that has lied to us about its concern for the best interest of Arsenal Football Club and is happy to overcharge each of us for a product they have cheapened the quality of for no other reason than they want more money for themselves - Not even need it, they .just want, it even if you or I actually may need it more You think that is fine then I guess? Yes or no?

 
Re: See THIS is the issue
RadioFreeArsenal (IP Logged)
12 May, 2012 03:06
Quand l'avarice devient un mode de vie pour un groupe des hommes dans une société, au cours du temps ils créent pour eux-mêmes un système légal qui l'autorise et un code moral qui l'améliore

Of course I am guilty of paraphrasing Bastiat there as you know I switched the word greed for plunder,(though one could say the wealthy today are plundering all of society to increase their own personal wealth) because that thesis would not merely be appropriate for society as a whole (especially American Society) it also provides a lesson here, for we have legitimized the Board['s greed in any wa=y we can and have to in anumber of cases and seem happy to blame others just to blame someone and pretend that means you really do care about what is right and wrong for the Club.


We don't have to excuse wealthy people's behavior toward or toward Arsenal because wealth is not moral or ethical superiority of character or action in and of itself. That could be correct in this case but the evidence suggests that in fact it is quite the opposite. and we do not have to accpet excuse or endorse it anymore than we would the conduct of one another when it causes distress to any of us.

 
Re: See THIS is the issue
karsene16 (IP Logged)
12 May, 2012 08:55
My line of "wenger's gone senile I tell ya" was much more compelling than THIS.

I don't think Hillwood and the board are watching the french league enough to buy Park,Chamakh, Gervinho, Koscielny, Nasri, Sagna, Adebayor etc etc

if your player judgement is failing no amount of money can change it.



http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e232/karsene/wilshere.jpg?t=1376646952

 
Re: See THIS is the issue
Philly the kid (IP Logged)
12 May, 2012 09:00
I actually agree with you here Radio.
My best guess is that the only reason Wenger is still backed by the board (as one of the best paid managers in the league, if not THE highest paid) is because he protects the board. He makes himself look responsible for all wrong doing with some of the $hit he comes out with. So he takes all the flack. It gives him a better bargaining position when negotiating his own contract.

ffs, does anyone really believe that Wenger wanted the Fabregas and Nasri transfers to leave him with only a few days to find replacements? As if he's that irresponsible and stupid.

I'll happily admit that AW has made mistakes. But the measure of a man is how he learns from those mistakes.
We've already gone and bought a top quality forward, and with plenty of other rumours doing the rounds, the evidence is all pointing that Wenger is playing the market in a more sensible manner. To put it another way, he has learned from the mistakes made last summer, who-so-ever made those errors of judgement.

 
Re: See THIS is the issue
gunnersingh (IP Logged)
12 May, 2012 10:14
Who's responsible for picking the team? Who's responsible for buying the players?

Philly, everyone knew cesc and Nasri were off, but Wenger was in denial. It's Wenger's fault we had a poor start to the season.

 
Re: See THIS is the issue
Philly the kid (IP Logged)
12 May, 2012 10:16
And that is what i'm talking about GS.
Who makes the final decision on how much we accept for our players?
You seriously think it's Wenger choosing how much profit the board makes?
You're more senile than Wenger if you honestly believe that Wenger wouldn't have sorted the deals out earlier in the window given a choice.

 
Re: See THIS is the issue
Padre Pio (IP Logged)
12 May, 2012 10:22
In his last programme notes v Norwich, Wenger suggests that Diaby will be like a new signing. I have to say there I times I doubt his sanity.

Lenin said of Bernard Shaw that he was a good man fallen amongst Fabians.

Maybe Wenger was agood manager fallen amongst old Etonians and a greedy yank



Arsenal is a top 16 European club that will remain a top 16 European club and the Emirates is tape-loop that will win trophy after trophy

Nothing will change to stop Arsenal's domination except the ticket prices which must go up so that Wenger can make even more marquee signings.

Kroenke, Gazidis & Wenger are made for each other a glorious triumvirate heading for immortality.

Arsenal’s not a football club it is the one true religion Milton Palmer

 
Re: See THIS is the issue
Philly the kid (IP Logged)
12 May, 2012 10:25
If only Wenger would stop with the 'new signings' bs.
It's not like a new signing, it's more like having a 25 man squad rather than a 24 man squad.
If he said that, you lot would have a lot less to moan about!!

 
Re: See THIS is the issue
PKGooner (IP Logged)
12 May, 2012 13:23
Quote:
RadioFreeArsenal
Quote:
PKGooner
As long as the manager keeps saying there is money available - which he chooses to not spend, he'll keep getting the flack - rightly so.
Even if there isn't any money available - he sets up the team, he chooses the tactics, he makes the subtitutions, he (supposedly) motivates them.

People are right to have issue with him.

But we should have no issue with why he has no money and happily support a Board that has lied to us about its concern for the best interest of Arsenal Football Club and is happy to overcharge each of us for a product they have cheapened the quality of for no other reason than they want more money for themselves - Not even need it, they .just want, it even if you or I actually may need it more You think that is fine then I guess? Yes or no?



Mate there have been lots of essays about the board on here, including a few by myself, about how they're robbing us stupid with the extortionate ticket prices, and how the club has alienated a lot of its core match going support. I can't be @rsed going into it all over again.

All I said was the manager deserves to get criticism. Just as much as the board in my eyes.

 
Re: See THIS is the issue
Optimistic Gunner (IP Logged)
12 May, 2012 14:03
Quote:
PKGooner
All I said was the manager deserves to get criticism. Just as much as the board in my eyes.

Exactly.



http://oi42.tinypic.com/zsprti.jpg

 
Re: See THIS is the issue
Rockstaar (IP Logged)
12 May, 2012 14:17
Quote:
ffs, does anyone really believe that Wenger wanted the Fabregas and Nasri transfers to leave him with only a few days to find replacements? As if he's that irresponsible and stupid.

The Fabregas transfer wasn't an easy transfer negotiation since Fabregas put Arsenal in a terrible bargaining position along with Barca taking the @#$%&

There's the issue of Barca offering less, how the payments would be made, Fabregas' bonus, Fabregas intent on leaving etc

Nasri's was just as bad, City were playing hardball at first too..so at that point you have a player with only 1 year left on his contract, do you keep him or sell him over market value..you know you have to let him go since the offer is tremendous for a player with only a year left on his current deal and can leave for free next season



http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/5066/verminator2.jpg
[arsenalsigs.blogspot.com]

 
Re: See THIS is the issue
Philly the kid (IP Logged)
12 May, 2012 15:46
Exactly why I think it was the boards decision. Not Wengers.
As tight as AW is, he doesn't control the purse strings.
That being the case, the board fu(med us before we even got going, and Wenger saved our season by getting us to third (hopefully including tomorrow night). But yet everyone seems to jump on the wengers senile band wagon.
(Sm102)

 
Re: See THIS is the issue
PKGooner (IP Logged)
12 May, 2012 16:46
Quote:
Philly the kid
Exactly why I think it was the boards decision. Not Wengers.
As tight as AW is, he doesn't control the purse strings.
That being the case, the board fu(med us before we even got going, and Wenger saved our season by getting us to third (hopefully including tomorrow night). But yet everyone seems to jump on the wengers senile band wagon.
(Sm102)


Because the tactics, selections, defensive organisation, substitutions have been senile this season.

Hill wood or Gazidis aren't on the touchline making these calls mate. Or giving team talks. Or the ones who're meant to be motivate the team.

Its Wenger.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/05/2012 16:55 by PKGooner.

 
Re: See THIS is the issue
RadioFreeArsenal (IP Logged)
12 May, 2012 17:10
I can agree fully on shared responsibility or criticism but that leaves three questions -

Can you honestly say that most Gooners even see things that way? Simple yes or no.

And can you say the majority of Gooners on message Boards including this one see the resposibility as joint between the manager and Board and display the same anger to the Board for its role in this ?

And also who ultimately is responsible? Who hires who? Who employs who? This applies even if one wants to place all the blame on the manager's shoulders. If you can see he is at fault surely the people whose job it is to see that can yet they do nothing. So whose responsibility is it ultimately?

And consider who actually suffers for all this venom and anger. It certainly isn't the people who made 400 million pounds from all of this. Do you think they seriously care about what is happening or how much it affects and hurts as people who genuinely love our Club and Team? They made all sorts of money and rthe only thing they care about besides that is not acknowledging that that was the motive behind their actions by the looks of it.

No we are only making our own suffering even worse by choosing to solely turn on the manager with this sort of venome. Like I said you have people here who will say Arsene Wenger was the common factor in our relative failure since 2005 but either forgetting or ignoring that he was the common factor in our historic success from 1998-2005.

In effect we are choosing to poison all of the glory and joy and success just to claim and easy scalp because it is just too difficult to actually address the people who are or at the very least possibly are actually responsible for this decline.

In other words just as the Club assumed all the risk and the Board nearly all the reward, we are sacrificing all our happiness so the Board can have even more happiness. Is that really what any other club's supporters would tolerate?

 
Re: See THIS is the issue
Rockstaar (IP Logged)
12 May, 2012 17:25
Quote:
Because the tactics, selections, defensive organisation, substitutions have been senile this season.
Hill wood or Gazidis aren't on the touchline making these calls mate. Or giving team talks. Or the ones who're meant to be motivate the team.

Its Wenger.

thumbs down agree, Wenger should be blamed for what he is responsible for



http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/5066/verminator2.jpg
[arsenalsigs.blogspot.com]

 
Re: See THIS is the issue
RadioFreeArsenal (IP Logged)
12 May, 2012 18:21
But you ignore the fact that their decisions are affecting the make-up of the team. Do you think he was doing things dramatically differently from 1998-2005 and the players we had were no better than those we have now. Or do you believe the players we have now are every bit as good and the players we had then and he just decidied I'm not going to do all the things I did that worked so well?

You just love anyone who makes money even if they cheat poeple to do it because making money is your religion or every bit as important as whatever god you may worship so you happily ignore that factor.

 
Re: See THIS is the issue
PKGooner (IP Logged)
12 May, 2012 19:00
Quote:
Radiofreearsenal
Is that really what any other club's supporters would tolerate?


In England yes


Quote:
Radiofreearsenal
Do you think he was doing things dramatically differently from 1998-2005 and the players we had were no better than those we have now.

Yes he was.

Back then he had a far better eye for talent.

And the players actually seemed to listen to him.
He made better subs
Gave better team talks
Set up the team better
Changed tactics more often

Mate I'm not disagreeing with you about the board - our chairman is a fool and we are getting fleeced

But for the football side of things Wenger is to blame. Like I said before, its not the board's fault Gibbs isn't told where to stand, or the centre backs don't actually know to STAY BACK when we're a goal up with a few minutes left.

Its Wenger's.

Ferguson in charge of this team would be challenging for the league no doubt about it. Look at Man Utd's squad now - and for the past few years actually. They've not had a right back since 2006 or a creative midfield player for a couple of years.

 
Re: See THIS is the issue
RadioFreeArsenal (IP Logged)
12 May, 2012 19:11
See PK that is like saying that is McDonald's start making its burgers from dog excrement because the people running the company won't pay for actual hamburger patties if that in fact is what we are getting now that its it local manager's fault for serving the products his company purchases for him to serve.

Granted the manager chooses the players we sign but only from a pool of talent that most will acknowledge is vastly more narrow already than it was for a variety of reasons. And the Board's greed makes it even more narrow that that. And when you factor in how it makes it additonally harder to keep our best players as well as recruit from a wider pool of talent doesn't that even the double the difficulty any manager in this situation would face.

Finally PK if you genuinely believe the points you list above why do you think think the people whose job it is to employ the manager have neither seen nor acted to correct these issues or even to replace the manager in over four years and arguably in seven years? Why can't they see what you can? You might be right. But why can't the people who are paid to see whose investments or shareholding rest on seeing this see it?

 
Re: See THIS is the issue
kudzif (IP Logged)
12 May, 2012 19:17
Radio free managers lose it just like players so you need to stop going on about Arsene from 1998-2005.Rafa Benitez at one time was considered one of the best managers ,but does anyone still think that is so.Radiofree you and other people need to stop living in the past and start living in the present.Does the board bear some of the responsibility for the problems undoubtedly , but Wenger bears a huge chunk of it.The clockwork late season collapses including this season are not the board's fault.The inexplicable tactical decisions e.g removing Chamberlin from the Man U , and the lack of tactical awareness of the team are not the board's fault.One cannot honestly think the team did not have an opportunity to win the league the last couple of years especially last season.Bad managerial decisions made in those seasons doomed us.Arsene has told everyone where he stands on issues like transfers so have you considered he actually means what he says and is not being forced to say so.

 
Re: See THIS is the issue
RadioFreeArsenal (IP Logged)
12 May, 2012 19:26
Yes Kudzif and when managers actually lose it Boards actually do something about that - that is their job even part of their Duty of Care to the Club and even its shareholders if that is the case.

There is a very strong argument that if you are correct Arsene Wenger should have been sack after the 08-09 season when we fell back into struggling for fourth a year after making major forweard progress toward challenging to win the Premiership in 2007-2008 espcially given that in your view his losing it probably cost us any chance at that title.

So if you or I can see he is losing it or has lost it or whatever why are the people with the Duty of Care to the Club and its shareholders who work with man closely regularly blind to it? How do you explain that away?

 
Re: See THIS is the issue
kudzif (IP Logged)
13 May, 2012 00:25
Quote:
RadioFreeArsenal
Yes Kudzif and when managers actually lose it Boards actually do something about that - that is their job even part of their Duty of Care to the Club and even its shareholders if that is the case.
There is a very strong argument that if you are correct Arsene Wenger should have been sack after the 08-09 season when we fell back into struggling for fourth a year after making major forweard progress toward challenging to win the Premiership in 2007-2008 espcially given that in your view his losing it probably cost us any chance at that title.

So if you or I can see he is losing it or has lost it or whatever why are the people with the Duty of Care to the Club and its shareholders who work with man closely regularly blind to it? How do you explain that away?



The board not doing anything when things at the club have started to go bad is where i agree with you and say the board has failed.They should have done something that is why i said they bear some of the responsibility for the problems at the club. I agree with you that the board is not doing all it can to win, but what has been provided is still enough to win with a good manager.Radiofree do you honestly think last season was not there for the taking. A good manager with the squad we had, and with a buy or two in january would have won the league.

The reason they are blind to things today is that like a lot of people they still see the manager as Wenger from 1998-2005 not as he is now.Also as much we have people disgruntled with Wenger at the end of the day majority of the fans still don't want Wenger fired and the board knows this.

 
Re: See THIS is the issue
RadioFreeArsenal (IP Logged)
13 May, 2012 01:07
Oh the 400 million pounds these policies made them never entered into any of this eh Kudzif. That was just a happy lucky coincidence.

That kind of thinking is worse than naive - it verges on the willfully ignorant. And what's worse is many of the people who like to pretend our board did nothing other than honor its obligation to protect the Club's best interests from 2005 have concluded within one year of behaving the very same way the Board did that they can call Stan Kroenke an asset stripper for doing the very same things the very same way the Board did for six years.

Stan Kroenke may be an asset stripper but no one can honestly make that claim based on the facts and pretend the Arsenal Board were not alos asset stripping to increase their profits. I would love to see someone try to explain the difference in conduct in terms of operation of the football team by the Arsenal Board from 2005-2011 and by Stan Kroenke after 2011

 
Re: See THIS is the issue
Philly the kid (IP Logged)
13 May, 2012 08:15
Pk. If -as I speculated above, the board was responsible for our torturous summer- then could it not be the case that the board was directly accountable for the loss of morale in the dressing room.
Then surely this would be the reason for our horrible start to the season. What was it 7 points from our first 7 games?
Then surely it's wengers tactics etc that has saved our season? We're currently 3rd from 18th in November.What other team could've done that?

 
Re: See THIS is the issue
PKGooner (IP Logged)
13 May, 2012 16:02
Quote:
Philly the kid
Pk. If -as I speculated above, the board was responsible for our torturous summer- then could it not be the case that the board was directly accountable for the loss of morale in the dressing room.
Then surely this would be the reason for our horrible start to the season. What was it 7 points from our first 7 games?
Then surely it's wengers tactics etc that has saved our season? We're currently 3rd from 18th in November.What other team could've done that?


All the stuff above is speculation mate. Till Wenger says he has no money I'm afraid he will get the flack.

Look at us at the back today - shambles.

Unfortunately blaming the board completely for a managers actions who's getting paid £7m annually isn't on really.

The wage bill of our squad, the sheer number of players in our squad, singings like Chamakh Squillaci, giving Djourou a new contract, having Denilson Bendtner Almunia on 50k a week, signing Park.


All of the above is down to the manager - and none of it is speculation - its all Wenger.

As I said above the board are fleecing us but to put the blame solely at their feet is nonsense.

 
Re: See THIS is the issue
RadioFreeArsenal (IP Logged)
13 May, 2012 17:42
And you know all the how PK. We know from the Premier League the Board scuttled the negotations wuith Ashley Cole by not offering 60K a week and Arsene Wenger wanted them to pay 60K and they refused. That doesn't sound at all like this was all down to Arsene Wenger despite your efforts to suggest otherwise.

But even if it was that suggests he was acting against the Board's wishes for what five or six or seven years. So why wans't he sacked then?

Foe a change let me offer you some possibilities - ones I have heard all the way back to 2008 or even earlier

1)Arsene Wenger is too powerful and actually runs the whole club and the Board are essential at his mercy if they want to remain at Arsenal.

Oh yes they can get rid of members of the families who made Arsenal what we like to believe it is or at least was, and they can get rid of hugely popular players and managers, and not only the manager's closest friends but some of their own with great ease but they are helpless against the dictator Wenger. Sure

2) The Board are too incompetent to run the football club properly with out Arsene Wenger

But not make 400 million pounds between them from an investment of 11 million between them. This might make sense if they had bought 11 million EuroMillions tickets the week it reached 400 million but seriously....

3)Arsene Wenger keeps promising the Board he'll change his policy but he just says that to keep them happy for another year

I love this one it's also known as the "bad boyfriend" or " bad girlfriend" excuse (you know "I promise it'll never happen again honey..." we've all either given it or heard it and probably both) But really do you think any comeptent Board which clearly they are because you don't make 400 million pounds of your incompetence, would have bought that more than once if even once?

But at least this one is actually amusing in a manner



4)They are afraid supporters will boycott the Club or offer similar costly protests if Mr. Wenger is sacked[/b

Let's see we won't boycott(if that was an option if any of us were seriously willing let alone ready to consider that extreme an option) the Club for overcharging drastically while underinvesting in the team drastically and using our money for no other reason to make money for themselves by that strategy and by selling some of our most beloved players as part of the strategy and denying us close to the joy we saw today, but we will boycott for a amanger who many believe has to go because these are his poluicies. Oh my is all can say if you believe that.


[b]5) the most recent theory one offered here Arsenal historically don't change managers quickly


Two words- Bruce Rioch


I'm deadly serious though these have been offered as geunine thories by serious posters at a number of forums and boards and as you saw each of them has as little credibilty as it seems they should.

So which of those failed excuses are you going to try PK?

Because even if you're right about all these things being down to the manager's isn't that the job of the manager's managers - the Arsenal Board - to see that and deal with it? And if they haven't seen that seven years on or to be charitable to all parties four years on? So why haven't they done a dmaned thing? Could it be the manager';s actions were forced by the Board pursuing a profit generation project whose sole purpose ultimately was stick-doping, and Mr. Wenger's acquiesence helped them make this 400 million pounds? And that idf they brought in anewmanager he might might be as cooeprative and expose what the real agenda inside the Board Room appears to have been?

 
Re: See THIS is the issue
RadioFreeArsenal (IP Logged)
14 May, 2012 06:57
BTW PK he'll only get the flak because in too many instances we show we lack the courage or will to ask the more difficult questions of the Club and those who run it.

And as along as there are enough Gooners lacking that the millionaires will only be too happy to lie to us and cheat us. Only if they are held accountable will that end. Blaming the manager alone is not going to achieve that let alone the changes you want as much as I do.

 
Re: See THIS is the issue
hippogunner (IP Logged)
14 May, 2012 08:14
PK is talking sense Philly. I know you're an equable chap who likes to give Wenger the benefit of the doubt but some of the manager's decisions have been dire. Wenger has bought more average players in recent seasons than good ones.

As Kudzif says, managers can lose it too just like players. Wenger's had plenty of money to spend and refused to do so and then when he does spend a substantial amount he buys an average player like Gervinho.

It's obvious to most that the team is a long way off winning the CL or the league so Wenger has to spend some of that money he has but I'm not sure he has an eye for a great player anymore.

 
Re: See THIS is the issue
PKGooner (IP Logged)
14 May, 2012 13:42
Radio you seem to be under the illusion that I side with the board and that I'm admiring what they're doing.

I'm really not. As I've said about ten times on this thread already they are fleecing us.

 
Re: See THIS is the issue
RadioFreeArsenal (IP Logged)
14 May, 2012 15:30
PK the problem is simple - you are happy to pretend that sacking themmanager will change the situation on the oitch and disniss and suggestion otherwise as mere speculation as though you actually know with certainty what is going on.

If what I and some others are saying is speculation surely what you are saying is no different. And there is no reason that any Gooner should not want to clear up which sppecuklation is correct, and even less reason any Gooner should want to pretend to act to fix the problem knowing ion fact they may have done just the opposite simply to feel better for a day or two.

You may be right - I may be right. It will hardly surprise that if I had to pick now I would pick my version of events. But to be fair you would say the very same thing about your version.

But what is far more important than anything is we all pick the right version. Not the version that we like or is easier to deal with or easier to respond , or makes us more comfortable with what we believe in about the club.

Picking anything but the right version will only ensure not only that the problems already present persist no matter who the manager is but that thwey almost certainly expand and worsen.. That is all that should concern us - the reality that either we can try to influence the positive changes we all know are needed in the club or that those changes will not come for years and years perhaps even decades and the deline copuld be so severe that by the time they come we still might have a significant wait before we get the reward our loyalty even the misplaced loyalty so richly deserves .


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