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Wengers philosophy laid bare....
Peter Storey (IP Logged)
27 April, 2012 18:11
Wenger - I'm surprised by Guardiola exit!

Now before the Wenger purists say that i'm pulling thing's out of context, just dwell for one moment on what Wenger allegedly said...

"The philosophy of Barcelona has to be bigger than winning or losing a championship."

Now there you go, it comes straight from the Gallic horses mouth, the philoshy of a club win or lose is bigger than winning or losing a championship.

Now I can agree to that in some small part, but seven years of pursuing the same philoshy with so much of a glint of silverware adds up to someone taking the philophical p.iss!



[farm5.static.flickr.com]

Baby I was born to MOAN

 
Re: Wengers philosophy laid bare....
tigerline (IP Logged)
27 April, 2012 18:30
Sounds like the old windbag just ... farted.

I am certain that this statement accurately reflects his own priorities.

... just pathetic.

 
Re: Wengers philosophy laid bare....
SandyB (IP Logged)
27 April, 2012 18:31
Don't take stress, Wenger has only one philosophy that is $$.

 
Re: Wengers philosophy laid bare....
Peter Storey (IP Logged)
27 April, 2012 18:38
Quote:
tigerline
Sounds like the old windbag just ... farted

Hope you talking about me ya c.unt?



[farm5.static.flickr.com]

Baby I was born to MOAN

 
Re: Wengers philosophy laid bare....
gooney (IP Logged)
27 April, 2012 19:22
Actually he is correct....look at Bilbao for example. Football club is more than just winning a trophy. Its part of the community, it represent the people of its community, it should represent good values etc etc.

End of the day, the last 7 years have not been disaster. yes we have fallen short few times in finals and semi finals. But we have build a great stadium, build a solid base for the future and have survived the cost of a new massive stadium without falling of the top four and still be an attractive club.

Just look at Liverpool owner who just said they are not gonna build a new stadium as it cost too much, despite saying they would earlier on.

 
Re: Wengers philosophy laid bare....
tigerline (IP Logged)
27 April, 2012 19:26
Quote:
Peter Storey
Quote:
tigerline
Sounds like the old windbag just ... farted

Hope you talking about me ya c.unt?

HaHa.
This time I was talking about the old french poodle farting windbag.

... you are not immune, though ... maybe some other time?
cool smiley

 
Re: Wengers philosophy laid bare....
mapleleafgooner (IP Logged)
27 April, 2012 19:59
I don't think Silent Stan will care much for the philosophical mumbo-jumbo as long as the dough keeps rolling into his pockets.

 
Re: Wengers philosophy laid bare....
karsene16 (IP Logged)
27 April, 2012 20:16
Selling your best players, fleecing fans, top4 makes everything alright, not buying proven players. Yes Arsenal is more than winning leagues.



http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e232/karsene/cutmypic.png

 
Re: Wengers philosophy laid bare....
Philly the kid (IP Logged)
27 April, 2012 22:14
Quote:
gooney
Actually he is correct....look at Bilbao for example. Football club is more than just winning a trophy. Its part of the community, it represent the people of its community, it should represent good values etc etc.
End of the day, the last 7 years have not been disaster. yes we have fallen short few times in finals and semi finals. But we have build a great stadium, build a solid base for the future and have survived the cost of a new massive stadium without falling of the top four and still be an attractive club.

Just look at Liverpool owner who just said they are not gonna build a new stadium as it cost too much, despite saying they would earlier on.

thumbs down
Well said Gooney.

 
Re: Wengers philosophy laid bare....
Peter Storey (IP Logged)
27 April, 2012 22:28
Quote:
gooney
Actually he is correct....look at Bilbao for example. Football club is more than just winning a trophy.

F.uck me Gooney... you been watching too much 'Life of Brian' and 'Always look on the bright side of life ' or what! Point is I want my beloved club to win something, I really dont get off on the community stuff, so I suggest you shove it up your a.nal passage.



[farm5.static.flickr.com]

Baby I was born to MOAN

 
Re: Wengers philosophy laid bare....
RadioFreeArsenal (IP Logged)
27 April, 2012 22:59
Gooney are you a spud becuase you sure sound like a s***s supporter and not a supp[orter who wants to see his club ever win anything.

Of corse there is more to football than just einning trophies or football wouldn't exist. Nor would any other sport.

But winning trophies and investing a bit more to have a better chance win trophies is no vice and investing a bit less to enrich millionaire shreholders is no virtue.

You know its really bad when I am borrowing from Barry Goldwater.

 
Re: Wengers philosophy laid bare....
De Times (IP Logged)
27 April, 2012 23:21
Wenger is absolutely spot-on.
Most clubs that win trophies these days don't truely deserve them, so wtf are trophies if the essence of winning them have been completely watered down? The same trophy that is truely earned by someone could be easily bought by one corrupt billionair any minute. A trophy means not much to me to be frank.

 
Re: Wengers philosophy laid bare....
mapleleafgooner (IP Logged)
28 April, 2012 00:59
Quote:
De Times
Wenger is absolutely spot-on.
Most clubs that win trophies these days don't truely deserve them, ....

Better go easy on that Wenger kool-aid.

The teams that win trophies are the ones that win the most games (duh), loses the least games (duh again), and have the capacity to win when they are not playing well. The fact that Wenger's team has not won anything for the last 8 year means his team is simply not good enough. If we are not good enough, we don't deserve to win anything. Simply fact of life.

 
Re: Wengers philosophy laid bare....
eduardo (IP Logged)
28 April, 2012 01:04
are you really that simple maple, or have you just decided to twist the meaning of what de times is saying



*Signing Ozil is a signing Bergkamp type moment for Arsenal. It changes things utterly.*

 
Re: Wengers philosophy laid bare....
mapleleafgooner (IP Logged)
28 April, 2012 01:09
Quote:
eduardo
are you really that simple maple, or have you just decided to twist the meaning of what de times is saying

Eduardo: How did I twist De Times's words? And what did I say that is factually wrong?

 
Re: Wengers philosophy laid bare....
eduardo (IP Logged)
28 April, 2012 01:16
read the rest of his statement

"so wtf are trophies if the essence of winning them have been completely watered down? The same trophy that is truely earned by someone could be easily bought by one corrupt billionair any minute. A trophy means not much to me to be frank."

quite clearly changes the meaning from that which you chose to take from it, and if you can't see that then no amount of explainations of it would enable you to understand it



*Signing Ozil is a signing Bergkamp type moment for Arsenal. It changes things utterly.*

 
Re: Wengers philosophy laid bare....
mapleleafgooner (IP Logged)
28 April, 2012 01:27
Quote:
eduardo
read the rest of his statement
"so wtf are trophies if the essence of winning them have been completely watered down? The same trophy that is truely earned by someone could be easily bought by one corrupt billionair any minute. A trophy means not much to me to be frank."

quite clearly changes the meaning from that which you chose to take from it, and if you can't see that then no amount of explainations of it would enable you to understand it

So Chel$ki does not deserve to be in the finals? And Citeh does not deserve the chance to win the EPL? All bcos they spend more than Arsenal using money that is corrupted? Chel$ki did to Barca what Arsenal has never done by using tactics that Wenger do not approve. And Citeh won by buying mercenaries instead of home grown players - again something Wenger do not condone. Wenger decided a long time ago to make Arsenal successful using his way - which so far has not worked. Don't let our own lack of success dilute the success of others.

 
Re: Wengers philosophy laid bare....
eduardo (IP Logged)
28 April, 2012 01:39
an over simplification maple, arsenal winning trophies or not has nothing to do with the view that the way some other clubs are run means their success is less worthy than some others, if Arsenal had won four or five trophies in the last 7 years would not change my mind about city or chelsea and others, no matter what we do or don't win in the future will not change my mind that alot of what goes on in football is at best obscene and at worst corrupt.


For me Arsenal are not run as well as it could be and should be, but I do agree with being self sustaining, but if it was up to me we would have a slightly different self sustaining model



*Signing Ozil is a signing Bergkamp type moment for Arsenal. It changes things utterly.*

 
Re: Wengers philosophy laid bare....
mapleleafgooner (IP Logged)
28 April, 2012 02:00
Quote:
eduardo
....
For me Arsenal are not run as well as it could be and should be, but I do agree with being self sustaining, but if it was up to me we would have a slightly different self sustaining model

Agreed.

 
Re: Wengers philosophy laid bare....
SandyB (IP Logged)
28 April, 2012 03:55
Wenger is a cult now a days whatever he says is taken by his followers as biblical prophesy and disbeliever as a scam.

That's the biggest problem in Wenger as a football club manager what I see and now a days I started caring little and little.

 
Re: Wengers philosophy laid bare....
RadioFreeArsenal (IP Logged)
28 April, 2012 06:07
The problem Eduardo is that in professional sport every trophy won is in effect bought. After you are paying your players. In effect it is just like business(oh dear here comes Rocky Raccoon) in the sense that the most successful companies tend to invest more to achieve that success or at least that is traditionally the case ther last century or so.

The problem is Arsenal operates under a business model that celebrates underinvestment and overcharging for a cheaper product. This certainly seems to be the caser since 2005 particularly, at least with the overcharging component as Arsenal traditionally has always under-invested.

The problem is they didn't overcharge severely until relatively recently and than decpetively insist they were not doing so when asked to justify their policies. Nor did they make as much money personally from all of this as they have now.

Basically they want us to pay Harrod's prices for Wal-Mart products and to make their money that way rather than in a way that is less guaranteed to maximize profit for them personally. They want the reward without the risk when in fact they weren't taking any real risk anyway . They invested 10 million pounds between them, and so making 200 or 100 or even 50 million between them would not have been a bad return at all.

It appears they were just greedy - it wasn't enough for them quite appreantly. Not that they or their family's survival was staked on the money they made becuase it wasn't. It seems highly likely they just wanted more for themselves and were happy to betray the supporters who respected and trusted them to get it.

 
Re: Wengers philosophy laid bare....
litmus (IP Logged)
28 April, 2012 06:15
I don't think its exactly this or exactly that. I think all views here are valid. We should be aiming for winning as much as we can, although I agree winning is not everything, and should not define a club.

If we see Arsenal as a company, I think I would question, is our club doing all it can to try and win trophies while maintaining its business model and philosophy. Or is the drive to win, the winning mentality, the will to win all secondary now?

There is no question the board and manager wants to win games and trophies, but how much?? There seemed to be a lack of will to win in the club. An acceptance of "its okay if we don't win as the challenges are now too big" with moneybags Man City and Chelski, and now Liverpool to compete with Manure, we can't compete anymore.

 
Re: Wengers philosophy laid bare....
RadioFreeArsenal (IP Logged)
28 April, 2012 06:35
Good post Litmus I would mnot say the Board and now Stan Kroenke don't want to win trophies period.

But I think you are right the will to win is in serious doubt as it seems since 2005 clearly secondary to to the desire to make larger profits.

 
Re: Wengers philosophy laid bare....
hippogunner (IP Logged)
28 April, 2012 07:26
What nobody has addressed is the fact that Barca maybe bigger than winning or losing championships but the fact is they have actually won things. So the statement is redundant. I wonder if Barca fans would be happy if their club had gone 7 years without winning a trophy. Would Guardiola been there all that time with no trophies?

As for Gooney's assertion, well that's all well and good in an ideal world but such naivety look woebegone in the world of football.

Manu have bought success just like Chelsea and City. You can moan all you like about buying success but that's how it works in football. It isn't going to change just because you wish it would.

Oh and if our most expensive purchase Arshavin had been as influential as Bergkamp I'm sure some would accuse us of buying success.

 
Re: Wengers philosophy laid bare....
Philly the kid (IP Logged)
28 April, 2012 09:40
The statement isn't redundant at all Radio.
Wengers point is that through sticking to there philosophy,Barca have won the trophies that validate the philosophy. Not that they should change their philosophy every time they fail to win a trophy.

 
Re: Wengers philosophy laid bare....
karsene16 (IP Logged)
28 April, 2012 10:26
I want to see young Gooners watch their club pick up a trophy like I did when I was young. It's f*cking brilliant, and this was under George Graham.



http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e232/karsene/cutmypic.png

 
Re: Wengers philosophy laid bare....
hippogunner (IP Logged)
28 April, 2012 10:58
As I said before Philly do you think Barca would go 7 years without a trophy without a change of philosophy or manager? It's all very well having a philosophy but if it doesn't work you change it.

 
Re: Wengers philosophy laid bare....
Peter Storey (IP Logged)
28 April, 2012 11:06
Padre, I'd like a filter so I can ban people from my sensible threads



[farm5.static.flickr.com]

Baby I was born to MOAN

 
Re: Wengers philosophy laid bare....
karsene16 (IP Logged)
28 April, 2012 11:21
March 2011

[www.guardian.co.uk]

Pep Guardiola says Barcelona's reserve side has 'many Jack Wilsheres'


Pep Guardiola has dismissed the threat of Jack Wilshere by claiming that Barcelona's reserve team is full of players like the 19-year-old and that the midfielder is a first-team regular only because Arsène Wenger is not under pressure to win titles.

Guardiola was asked about the quality of Wilshere and the Barcelona coach said: "Wilshere is a top player. He is an excellent player, not just Arsenal, but also for the national team. [But] he is lucky because we have many players in the second team like him but he plays because there is no pressure at his club to win titles."

When asked to respond to Guardiola's comments, Wenger was dismissive. "I just play Jack Wilshere because he is good enough to play and because he deserves his place. I'm long enough in the job to know when a player deserves to play. It's nothing do with what I have to deliver or whether I'm under pressure."

Guardiola offered a joke regarding the late inclusion of Robin van Persie in the 19-man Arsenal squad named by Wenger after the Frenchman had previously claimed that the striker could be out for a month or so. "Maybe there could be a private flight for [Theo] Walcott to come in at the last minute – you never know," he said of the injured Englishman who has been left at home, before claiming he wanted Arsenal to be at full strength, if possible.

"I want all the great players to play, everyone against everyone and see a great show tomorrow. I hope they are all in the team – Van Persie, [Samir] Nasri, Cesc [Fábregas]. I want [Alex] Song to play, because I would like to play the best possible Arsenal. If Van Persie plays, then no problem.

"Arsenal have many alternatives, are very dynamic and can play in different positions. Their counterattack is great; we will try to prevent that. This is always a special game in the Champions League and it is a magnificent challenge."

Guardiola also stated that Arsenal have no mental weakness despite winning no major trophy since 2005. "I keep hearing about the fragility in the minds of the Arsenal players, but I do not agree. They are competing with Manchester United for the Premier League, reached the final of the Carling Cup and a few seasons ago were in the final of the Champions League. Arsenal are always in the top, when you compete every season at the top, it is because you are quality."



http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e232/karsene/cutmypic.png

 
Re: Wengers philosophy laid bare....
Philly the kid (IP Logged)
28 April, 2012 11:53
Quote:
Peter Storey
Padre, I'd like a filter so I can ban people from my sensible threads

Pray tell what the point of a forum is if you only want to talk to people who agree with you?!

 
Re: Wengers philosophy laid bare....
eduardo (IP Logged)
28 April, 2012 13:25
philly don't you mean talking to himself(Sm100)



*Signing Ozil is a signing Bergkamp type moment for Arsenal. It changes things utterly.*

 
Re: Wengers philosophy laid bare....
Philly the kid (IP Logged)
28 April, 2012 13:50
(Sm6)
I stand corrected!

 
Re: Wengers philosophy laid bare....
RadioFreeArsenal (IP Logged)
28 April, 2012 18:37
Quote:
De Times
Wenger is absolutely spot-on.
Most clubs that win trophies these days don't truely deserve them, so wtf are trophies if the essence of winning them have been completely watered down? The same trophy that is truely earned by someone could be easily bought by one corrupt billionair any minute. A trophy means not much to me to be frank.

This is plainly delusional blind faith in the Boaerrd and the Arsenal Way being genuine and still in place when clearly they aren't any longer. But who needs trophies when you have your "Class is Permanent" banner.

Let's face it all the others clubs are winning trophies and that's just offensive. Class and breeding are waht matter and that's what we have. We're just better than them because well we're better. We don't need to achieve anything to justify that. We have Class. Oh wait - we sold that too!

 
Re: Wengers philosophy laid bare....
RadioFreeArsenal (IP Logged)
28 April, 2012 18:41
And don't get me wrong I am proud of the special and even unique class and honour with which our Esteemed Club has historically carried itself as much as any Gooner. I just think we stopped doing so in recent years because selling that class and honor and tradition off for a big wedge of cash for themselves became more important than holding onto it without making money for themselves to the "Custodians" of the Club.

 
Re: Wengers philosophy laid bare....
Philly the kid (IP Logged)
28 April, 2012 20:51
I think sticking to wengers philosophy breeds class in a way that overpaying every premadona that wants a pay rise doesn't.

 
Re: Wengers philosophy laid bare....
RadioFreeArsenal (IP Logged)
28 April, 2012 22:41
See so winning trophies means nothing because its benath Arsenal and benath you then. What a phony. It's just easier to say that than admit it sucks what's going on. Nothing else.

You're just coming off like another blind-faither re-calibrating your religion's words to ease your discomfort with how reality does or does not reflect them. No different from end-of-world prechers who name the day it will end then say I have to re-read the scriptures to see why it didn't end when I said it it had to.

It's really no different from s***s supporters donning Barca shirts in May 2006. You're going to find a way - any way to ease your suffering and rationalize it.

 
Re: Wengers philosophy laid bare....
kudzif (IP Logged)
29 April, 2012 06:53
Thank you for speaking the truth Radiofree.

 
Re: Wengers philosophy laid bare....
RadioFreeArsenal (IP Logged)
29 April, 2012 07:12
You're welcome Kudzif - though I presume that is sarcasm lol

 
Re: Wengers philosophy laid bare....
gooney (IP Logged)
29 April, 2012 07:28
winning trophies means alot...its not everything. life goes on and football goes on. 99% of clubs dont ever win trophies and their fans are just as passionate and committed to their clubs

So fecking what we havent won anything in 7 years. Atleast we have been very close with finals and semi finals and we have gone through building a new stadium and kept the club at high level.

The board has done alot of things right the last 7 years and some things wrong. The right outweigh the wrong alot. but its very easy to sit on your coach with hindsight and say you would make better decision and point to the wrongs they have done.

Overall as a club we are very healthy, we have build the base to become an elite club and we will come back and win trophies again. Of that I have no doubt. But in the meantime Im not gonna pretend like everything is doom and gloom like RadioFreeArsenal

 
Re: Wengers philosophy laid bare....
RadioFreeArsenal (IP Logged)
29 April, 2012 08:04
That's the thing Gooney - it isn't hindsight.

I have said many of the very same things I am saying now as early as 2005. I have been run off several boards because my words then which are not all that different than now except now we have some real evidence to back those concerns and in fact have for some time now.

You can find my views on Arseblog where I was told I could stay and even criticize the Board but only about things like the cost or quality of the refreshments sold by the Club. So I left more than got banned.

At Steve Gleiber's forum the moderators invented excuses to ban me leading one moderator to quit moderating in protest several forum members to leave some permanently, and in fact another moderator who helped ban me admitted I never broke a single forum rule.

At BigSoccer I was fine till a forum member who once PM'd me to eat @#$%& and die (what guts to PM that) became a moderator and began to single me out for warnings for conduct no previous moderator ever. Clearly he was going to ban me for behavior no other moderator would consider taking such action(in fact a moderator who tried similar things earlier was actually removed afterward. In thisd case when I tried simply to do the same thing and request assistance to avoid being banned I was suspended for violating a rule about complaining about other forum members. I chopse not to resume posting there too.

Then at the Online Gooner forum which now exists under another name I was pushed out and even cyber-stalked but I was the one banned in the end. But oddly enough even though I was blamed for all sorts of problems the forum was suspended months after my departure because because the conduct of the people who wanted me off was really the problem .

Anyway what is the point ? (besides my heartfelt appreciation of the moderators tolerance of and patience with my and my strong views - Padre you are the first moderator to ever discuss a troll's behavior with me without trying to claim I am the troll in question lol)

That I certainly am not talking with hindsight at all.
That these concerns were there to se rlong before they came to fruition whether you want to admit it or not.

It didn't take hindsight to raise many of these questions in 2005 or 2006 or 2007 or 2008 or 2009 or 2010 or 2011. It took simply looking at the facts we knew then and comparing and contrasting them with what the club was saying then.

Just because you didn't want to know the truth then and still don't now doesn't mean you couldn't have known it or at least have a better understanding of it much sooner.

 
Re: Wengers philosophy laid bare....
Philly the kid (IP Logged)
29 April, 2012 08:31
Does it not ring bells that your opinions get YOU banned wherever you go?
You make salient points often. But the fact is you can't accept that we don't all agree with YOU. You aren't god mate. Or the boogieman.
At least allow us our own opinions. Arsenal are on the up right now. Please just let us enjoy it!!!

 
Re: Wengers philosophy laid bare....
RadioFreeArsenal (IP Logged)
29 April, 2012 08:52
See Philly its not my conduct it's my views and that is just plain wrong and hypocritical of anyone who runs or particpates in a forum meant to spark the open exchange of views.

I could see if in fact it was my conduct toward others that led to what happened but in fact it never once has been.

Indeed many of my best friends from those forums I still keep in contact with are people with whom I debated most intensely and frequently because they took the issues - even if they disagreed strongly with me - far more seriously than many who simply couldn't stand my views did. They genuinely believed I was wrong and wanted me to be wrong, but what mattered more to them was that we needed to know who was in fact and wrong and couldn't just assume that because we wanted to.

I could be wrong. Absolutely. But I could be right too. And the consequences either way will drastically shape this club and thus affect every one of us profoundly going forward for years and decades to come. I should think that whatever we want to believe we should want to know the truth now and not just rely on blind faith and trust in those running the Club.

 
Re: Wengers philosophy laid bare....
Philly the kid (IP Logged)
29 April, 2012 08:55
I can't prove you're wrong or right mate. I just want you to be wrong. As without the facts of the matters available to us, I prefer to live in optimism than negativity.
It's just a better way to live (imo at least)!!

 
Re: Wengers philosophy laid bare....
Peter Storey (IP Logged)
29 April, 2012 09:22
Before any of you form any more opinions or bleed your own personal conjecture of what Wenger said or might be saying!!!

Which part of this statement do you not understand:
"The philosophy of Barcelona has to be bigger than winning or losing a championship."

It say's exactly what it say's and that's possibly why we will struggle to overcome Stoke City next year and that exactly why we some of you daft t.wats will be getting giddy next May 2013 about being in the top three or four position... not to get a place in Europe to win the Euro Cup, but to maintain the equlibrium and keep the gravy boat topped up! Only trouble is our gravy boat is a half full, half empty type of f.uckin vessel!

Again, what part of life under Wenger/Kronke do you not f.uckin understand.



[farm5.static.flickr.com]

Baby I was born to MOAN

 
Re: Wengers philosophy laid bare....
RadioFreeArsenal (IP Logged)
29 April, 2012 09:28
I understand your point. I just think its best to live in reality about certain things precisely because they impact us so keenly. I don't think being optimistic or pessimistic about the truth behind what is going on is helpful to Arsenal or to us as loyal supporters of Arsenal.

This isn't going to Old Trafford and saying I think we can really pull off a performnce no one expects and nick a result or even a win. It's perfectly fine to be more optimistic about what the result might be because anything is possible in football on a given Saturday.

But its another thing to in an analytical discussion of the two sides to ignore facts and simply conclude we are better if in fact simple objective analysis just from watching the sides and players tells you we are not. In that case realism should apply not optimism or pessimism.

It's exponentially more important that realism apply to this issue because this isn't about one match or one season or one trophy. What is happening could shape Arsenal for years and even decades beyond now if we let it without some scrutiny.

I agree with Gooney - history strongly suggests we will win trophies again sooner or later and we will win the League again sooner or later. But while I don't what happened at s***s or why and don't really give a rat's @#$%& frankly, I do know that the same logic applied at s***s after say 1968, and they won less than half the trophies we have since then and well haven't won the League since 1961 of course.

Again - history says that shouldn't happen here. But it also suggested it shouldn't have happened there. And should we want to risk the possibility and anything remotely close to that even happening here just so some rich people could make themselves even richer at our expense?

 
Re: Wengers philosophy laid bare....
Peter Storey (IP Logged)
29 April, 2012 09:34
Radio, I'm old with a low attention span and suffer from sleep deprivation (mostly during the daytime) but f.uck me I read your reply and disd a 'Rip van Winkle'falling asleep for at least 5 mins. I have printed it out and will read it everytime I need to drop off, please, please write some more!



[farm5.static.flickr.com]

Baby I was born to MOAN

 
Re: Wengers philosophy laid bare....
RadioFreeArsenal (IP Logged)
29 April, 2012 09:39
Actually I think it's all the energy you use up trying to be clever and snarky that exhausts you.

If I had a dime for every time someome tried that line or questioned my sanity or accused me of trolling FFS Stan Kroenke might not own Arsenal after all lol

 
Re: Wengers philosophy laid bare....
Peter Storey (IP Logged)
29 April, 2012 09:47
Quote:
RadioFreeArsenal
Actually I think it's all the energy you use up trying to be clever and snarky that exhausts you.

Funny that... me old mum used to say " He's a clever little t.wat but he does have a big heart!" And my heart is for Arsenal and I will never ever, ever accept second best (let alone third or fourth) in a season's campaign.



[farm5.static.flickr.com]

Baby I was born to MOAN

 
Re: Wengers philosophy laid bare....
kudzif (IP Logged)
29 April, 2012 15:37
Quote:
RadioFreeArsenal
You're welcome Kudzif - though I presume that is sarcasm lol


No sarcasm, I do agree with what you said.

 
Re: Wengers philosophy laid bare....
RadioFreeArsenal (IP Logged)
29 April, 2012 17:18
Quote:
kudzif
Quote:
RadioFreeArsenal
You're welcome Kudzif - though I presume that is sarcasm lol


No sarcasm, I do agree with what you said.

Cheers then - its hard to keep track sometimes of of everyone calling you out. My apologies. Glad you feel that way. Wish you didn't have to agree but I am glad at this moment

 
Re: Wengers philosophy laid bare....
RadioFreeArsenal (IP Logged)
29 April, 2012 17:19
Quote:
Peter Storey
Quote:
RadioFreeArsenal
Actually I think it's all the energy you use up trying to be clever and snarky that exhausts you.

Funny that... me old mum used to say " He's a clever little t.wat but he does have a big heart!" And my heart is for Arsenal and I will never ever, ever accept second best (let alone third or fourth) in a season's campaign.

Hear Hear

 
Re: Wengers philosophy laid bare....
De Times (IP Logged)
29 April, 2012 20:53
Radio, will everything about the club suddenly become better if we somehow manage to win a major trophy next season?

 
Re: Wengers philosophy laid bare....
RadioFreeArsenal (IP Logged)
29 April, 2012 22:24
No. There will still be issues. Issues that need to be addressed But in fact we will at least feel better about the team and what it can achieve and even about those issues because we will have overcome them.

I could care less if the Board then or Stan Kroenke now filled the boxer shorts with 100 pound notes from the Club so long as they did deny money to make the team as good as it can be to do this and did not undermine the Club's financial stability as well, and as long as the Club was able to afford addressing those issues.

I think given how much we are making annually and have been banking away we could let them parade all day long with that money in their shorts and still make sure the team had what it needed, the club's financial stability remained unthreatened and the ongioing issues which relate back to the first point were addressed.

 
Re: Wengers philosophy laid bare....
De Times (IP Logged)
29 April, 2012 22:43
So if we win trophies next season then we "overcome" the issues. What an argument..

 
Re: Wengers philosophy laid bare....
RadioFreeArsenal (IP Logged)
29 April, 2012 23:12
Yes because because logic tells us you don't often win trophies especially major trophies if you are not good enough.Let's be clear on that.

In other words at this point if we were to invest both in keeping our best players here now and in part do so by investing in adding the sort of players we need in the first eleven and on the substitutes bench to push the team further forward toward competing for and even winning major trophies which is almost certainly whay would have to happen now then yes winning a major trophy would in fact overcome the issues or demonstrate that we have addressed and overcome the concerns.

Maybe not for you because you have too much class to want to actually spend money to try to win trophies. But for most of here I think that in fact would do. Hell even returning to the top two and making a major final or two would pretty much do it.

Not winning trophies sucks. Not having a real chance to win them is what really sucks though. Especially not while our Club's owners sits on more than enough money to give us a decent chance to win things and get richer by doing so.

 
Re: Wengers philosophy laid bare....
De Times (IP Logged)
30 April, 2012 02:59
Radio, what then do you think is the difference between repeating this season and actually challenging for the trophy next season? As in, what do you think we need to do with respect to the squad to actually challenge for the trophy next season?

 
Re: Wengers philosophy laid bare....
SandyB (IP Logged)
30 April, 2012 03:26
Quote:
Re: Wengers philosophy laid bare.... new
Posted by: De Times (IP Logged)
Date: 30 April, 2012 02:59

Radio, what then do you think is the difference between repeating this season and actually challenging for the trophy next season? As in, what do you think we need to do with respect to the squad to actually challenge for the trophy next season?

Finish in top 4 next season so that can play in CL in next to next season!!

 
Re: Wengers philosophy laid bare....
mapleleafgooner (IP Logged)
30 April, 2012 03:31
Quote:
SandyB
....Finish in top 4 next season so that can play in CL in next to next season!!

Under Wenger's (and by extension, all his worshippers) vocabulory, that is considered a trophy.

 
Re: Wengers philosophy laid bare....
RadioFreeArsenal (IP Logged)
30 April, 2012 04:38
Quote:
De Times
Radio, what then do you think is the difference between repeating this season and actually challenging for the trophy next season? As in, what do you think we need to do with respect to the squad to actually challenge for the trophy next season?

A big start would be to re-sign Robin and end the speculation and uncertainty dtraight away and end seven consecutive years of weakening the side more than we strengthened it in any given year.

By the same token don't consider selling or calling the bluff of any of the following players - Tom Vermaelen, Laurent Koscielny, Bacary Sagna, or Alex Song.

If we keep the best players in this team in place we have solid foundation to build from, and one that if we re-think our suicidal wage structure a bit could then attract more players of similar quality and price range.

One of the great ironies is just as failing to invest in better players undermines our ability to convince our better players to stay our difficulty in keeping those players makes it harder to sign the players they want us to sign.

So keeping our best players and re-doing the wage structure is huge.

As to additions - it appears we have two key additions all but locked up in M'Vila and Podolski subject to how we finish of course. I think these could be two terrific additions. If so that's a pretty good start - again provided no one of note is sold.

In addition I would target Vertonghen given his ability to play in defensive central midfield as well as central defence. Buying one player who can cover two position effectively is one way of saving money Arsene Wenger was brilliant at prior to 2005. I would also look at VanDerWiel as he can play left or right back and I'm far from sold on Jenkinson or Gibbs and even Santos hasn't convinced me yet.

If you add those two, and then shift Song to splitting time between central midfield and defence too then you have the following quality players who can play two roles regularly and effectively - Vertonghen, VanDerWiel, Song, Vermalaen, and Kocielny - five players covering 10 spots in the first team in defece and midfield. Not only do you upgrade experience and quality fairly significantly but you keep spending reasonably controlled.

The same can be done in attack. Walcott can be used through the middle on occasion, and Podolski certainly can if you go 4-3-3 or 4-5-1 and either can pair with Robin in a 4-4-2 and either can play on a wing. By the same token Robin can on occasion be played out wide as he is by Holland, so there are three attackers who cover six positions. Again quality is upgraded and spending is controlled to some extent.

Then for the rest of the side - you can add in Wilshere, Arteta, Szczesny,Oxlade-Chamberlain, Rosicky, Miyachi, Gervinho, Flappy, and Santos, Jenkinson and Coquelin or Frimpong (just played less regularly in the Premiership at this point) and Mertesacker when fit. Now you could consider upgrading the reserve keeper role and adding an creative attacking CM/winger, but I think the sittuation I listed here would be a huge step forward.

 
Re: Wengers philosophy laid bare....
De Times (IP Logged)
30 April, 2012 04:58
So the solution to what you've been saying all along finally ends up at what everyone has been saying on this board ever since. The way you go about things, one would think we're fighting relegation or about to go into relegation.

 
Re: Wengers philosophy laid bare....
De Times (IP Logged)
30 April, 2012 05:20
For the players you suggested we should buy,
First, you need to remember that a big part of having a successful team is in keeping most players in the squad happy and contented. And the fact that certain players havnt had the chance to prove themselves doesnt mean they're not good enough no matter what u think of them. Jenkinson is a player i like very much, he isnt getting any younger, he deserves matchtime and has proved himself to be a fighter whenever he's had to do so. In that position is sagna who happens to be one of the fittest and ever-present player in the league. In the rare absence of both players are coquelin, kos, and djorou who could all do a temporal job there. There therefore isnt any need to bring vanderwiel whose coming would only lead to distraction and discontent in many players (coquelin, djorou, kos, and verderwiel himself).
Vertoghen could be a nice buy, but let me quickly add that it isnt even a neccesity.
With the incoming of vertoghen who could play lb, cb and dm, and with the ever present song in dm, there wouldnt be any need for m'villa, except unless the manager plans to do without both diaby and frimpong for next season. A wide creative midfielder would then be needed in the creative department.
Keeping our best players and buying Podolski, hazard, and either of vertoghen or mvilla should be enough to give us the strongest squad in the league.

 
Re: Wengers philosophy laid bare....
Peter Storey (IP Logged)
30 April, 2012 06:45
De Times I swear you are either a club employee (part-time albeit) planted to quell the f.ckin flames of discontent. Either that or your a complete t.wat of a wind up merchant. Or just maybe you are an educated loone, pompous and alouf to what is reality and what is pre-pre-reality.



[farm5.static.flickr.com]

Baby I was born to MOAN

 
Re: Wengers philosophy laid bare....
Philly the kid (IP Logged)
30 April, 2012 07:46
If I was Amit (Arsene Wenger) DT is abboutthe only person positive enough that i'd have him in the squad.
Most of the rest of you would be about as good for morale as Ade.

 
Re: Wengers philosophy laid bare....
gooney (IP Logged)
30 April, 2012 08:59
Quote:
RadioFreeArsenal
Quote:
De Times
Radio, what then do you think is the difference between repeating this season and actually challenging for the trophy next season? As in, what do you think we need to do with respect to the squad to actually challenge for the trophy next season?

A big start would be to re-sign Robin and end the speculation and uncertainty dtraight away and end seven consecutive years of weakening the side more than we strengthened it in any given year.

By the same token don't consider selling or calling the bluff of any of the following players - Tom Vermaelen, Laurent Koscielny, Bacary Sagna, or Alex Song.

If we keep the best players in this team in place we have solid foundation to build from, and one that if we re-think our suicidal wage structure a bit could then attract more players of similar quality and price range.

One of the great ironies is just as failing to invest in better players undermines our ability to convince our better players to stay our difficulty in keeping those players makes it harder to sign the players they want us to sign.

So keeping our best players and re-doing the wage structure is huge.

As to additions - it appears we have two key additions all but locked up in M'Vila and Podolski subject to how we finish of course. I think these could be two terrific additions. If so that's a pretty good start - again provided no one of note is sold.

In addition I would target Vertonghen given his ability to play in defensive central midfield as well as central defence. Buying one player who can cover two position effectively is one way of saving money Arsene Wenger was brilliant at prior to 2005. I would also look at VanDerWiel as he can play left or right back and I'm far from sold on Jenkinson or Gibbs and even Santos hasn't convinced me yet.

If you add those two, and then shift Song to splitting time between central midfield and defence too then you have the following quality players who can play two roles regularly and effectively - Vertonghen, VanDerWiel, Song, Vermalaen, and Kocielny - five players covering 10 spots in the first team in defece and midfield. Not only do you upgrade experience and quality fairly significantly but you keep spending reasonably controlled.

The same can be done in attack. Walcott can be used through the middle on occasion, and Podolski certainly can if you go 4-3-3 or 4-5-1 and either can pair with Robin in a 4-4-2 and either can play on a wing. By the same token Robin can on occasion be played out wide as he is by Holland, so there are three attackers who cover six positions. Again quality is upgraded and spending is controlled to some extent.

Then for the rest of the side - you can add in Wilshere, Arteta, Szczesny,Oxlade-Chamberlain, Rosicky, Miyachi, Gervinho, Flappy, and Santos, Jenkinson and Coquelin or Frimpong (just played less regularly in the Premiership at this point) and Mertesacker when fit. Now you could consider upgrading the reserve keeper role and adding an creative attacking CM/winger, but I think the sittuation I listed here would be a huge step forward.

How do you suggest we do that? Take his wife and kids as hostage and say if you dont sign, you will never see them?

I mean dont you think we have offered him a new deal and dont you understand you cant force a person to sign a new contract

 
Re: Wengers philosophy laid bare....
Philly the kid (IP Logged)
30 April, 2012 09:06
Quote:
De Times
So if we win trophies next season then we "overcome" the issues. What an argument..

What do you expect DT? He finds a solution where he cannot be wrong whichever way the season pans out.
Sounds like a politician!!

 
Re: Wengers philosophy laid bare....
RadioFreeArsenal (IP Logged)
30 April, 2012 22:31
Quote:
De Times
So the solution to what you've been saying all along finally ends up at what everyone has been saying on this board ever since. The way you go about things, one would think we're fighting relegation or about to go into relegation.

Basically yes. And what a lot of people have been saying for several years now. It's easy to see what we need to do.

The real issue is why the Club either doesn't see it or refuses to do it, and frankly the latter is far more likely. I think most of us and I would assume people better place to address can see what is needed at this point and has been the past several seasons. There may be differeces on just who we need to bring in who they need to replace orhow many changes are needed and what positions.

But yes most of can see what needs to be done. What we cannot see is how no one in the Club sees it or wants to do it. Are we are smart about football as the Club's people? No of couse not but yhen again do you need to be that much smarter to see the obvious? Especially when its been pretty clear for several years running?

 
Re: Wengers philosophy laid bare....
RadioFreeArsenal (IP Logged)
30 April, 2012 22:40
Quote:
gooney
How do you suggest we do that? Take his wife and kids as hostage and say if you dont sign, you will never see them?
I mean dont you think we have offered him a new deal and dont you understand you cant force a person to sign a new contract

No need. We just don't have to sell him. He has one year left and if we finally provide the supporting players that can help him win trophies or have genuine belief we can win trophies. The we can approach him with an improved offer but not too uch improved because if we can win things he will re-sign.

Of course we could sell him for top money then re-invest that top-money in a new wage structure that is essential and then in rebuilding tam that could contend to win trophies too.

But instead we will almost certainly weaken the team just as it approaches success again because well Arsenal hasn't met a money-making opportunity it doesn't like since 2005.

Your problem is you are too happy to show blind faith in the Arsenal Way which have has been manipulated into a everything is for profit and increasing share price business model by both the Board that Cashed in and the new owner that cashed in with. And you rewarded with disappointment and heartache and nothing more really. Oh yes there is all that class we ooze. Oh wait that was sold to Wal-Mart.Oops.


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