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Theo.
gunnersingh (IP Logged)
10 April, 2012 21:55
Has anyone noticed that he seems a bit slower? He isn't getting away from defenders, maybe he's carrying a injury. This isn't a dig at Theo BTW.

 
Re: Theo.
eduardo (IP Logged)
10 April, 2012 21:58
maybe he has just been up against quick defenders or he may have slowed down a little so that its easier for him to control the ball or so that its easier for his team mates to keep up so he has someone to aim passes/crosses at



*Signing Ozil is a signing Bergkamp type moment for Arsenal. It changes things utterly.*

 
Re: Theo.
Mad Jens (IP Logged)
10 April, 2012 21:59
Haven't really noticed it too much.

Wenger has stressed the importance of Theo tracking back more in the last couple of seasons so he might find himself deeper/more tired than he used to.

I don't think he's gotten slower though.

 
Re: Theo.
Jack_is_the_truth (IP Logged)
10 April, 2012 22:06
no

chlichy is quick over short distances, theo knocked the ball past him from the half way line, there is no way he would have caught him



http://giant.gfycat.com/DistantVastGuanaco.gif http://164.177.157.12/img/teams/13.png
The future is now!!!!!!!

 
Re: Theo.
gunnersingh (IP Logged)
10 April, 2012 22:11
Well I've Seen lennon burn clichy plenty of times and Theo is supposed to be quicker then lennon.

 
Re: Theo.
Gunners R Us (IP Logged)
10 April, 2012 22:16
I have never seen lennon burn clichy. The guy towards the end of his spell here was error prone, but he was bloody quick.

 
Re: Theo.
younghansolo (IP Logged)
10 April, 2012 22:20
He's being more restrained which is a bloody good idea, less likely to do his hamstrings again.

He's a much better player when he controls his acceleration better.

 
Re: Theo.
Padre Pio (IP Logged)
11 April, 2012 08:24
I'm not having a go either, but he seems more reluctant to run at defenders these days, true Man City pinned him and Sagna back for quite a while.



Arsenal is a top 16 European club that will remain a top 16 European club and the Emirates is tape-loop that will win trophy after trophy

Nothing will change to stop Arsenal's domination except the ticket prices which must go up so that Wenger can make even more marquee signings.

Kroenke, Gazidis & Wenger are made for each other a glorious triumvirate heading for immortality.

Arsenal’s not a football club it is the one true religion Milton Palmer

 
Re: Theo.
De Times (IP Logged)
11 April, 2012 10:35
He's maturing, taking on players, and running only when he has to.

 
Re: Theo.
mapleleafgooner (IP Logged)
11 April, 2012 14:41
By slowing down, he will not over run the ball when he tries to dribble with it. Makes more sense. Otherwise he will continue to get dispossessed of the ball easily by opposing defenders.

 
Re: Theo.
jar5 (IP Logged)
11 April, 2012 15:07
and by slowing down, he will not beat his man.

 
Re: Theo.
Zainy (IP Logged)
11 April, 2012 15:08
Clichy is supposed to be extremely quick. Unless you are seconds quicker than someone else over 100m half a second isnt going to be much over 20 yards.
ive never seen anyone 'burn clichy' in fact there was a epl speed test done a few years ago where clichy was in the top 10 but i dont recall lennon being there. theo was top.

 
Re: Theo.
Mad Jens (IP Logged)
11 April, 2012 15:11
A year or two ago Wenger listed his fastest three players as Theo, Vela, and Traore. But yes, Clichy is pretty quick.

 
Re: Theo.
Zainy (IP Logged)
11 April, 2012 15:14
This is the list compiled by Castro over a couple of seasons in 2009:

WALCOTT 22.72 mph
CAMPBELL 22.50 mph
DROGBA 22.27 mph
TORRES 22.27 mph
ANELKA 22.05 mph
FABREGAS 22.05 mph
A COLE 22.05 mph
CLICHY 21.82 mph
ROONEY 21.82 mph
GERRARD 21.60 mph

yes that is sol campbell.

 
Re: Theo.
SuperRob (IP Logged)
11 April, 2012 15:15
By slowing down he will beat his man. He'll have more control. And it's all about changing pace quickly not about running quickly. If he's running close to full speed before he engages a defender who is keeping up, then he'll never go past.

Henry was a master at slowing the defenders down, and then bursting past them at the right time. Theo is hopefully learning to do this.

Anyway, whatever he's been doing, it has been working because he has been looking like an actual football player when he gets the ball in the last few games. He's been a lot more confident on the ball and I think he's been playing well. And I have been one of his biggest critics in the last few years.

 
Re: Theo.
Mad Jens (IP Logged)
11 April, 2012 15:17
Quote:
yes that is sol campbell.
And you expect me to take it seriously?

 
Re: Theo.
gunnersingh (IP Logged)
11 April, 2012 15:17
I was just about to say that Jens. Lennon used out-pace Clichy on a regular basis.

 
Re: Theo.
Philly the kid (IP Logged)
11 April, 2012 15:20
Quote:
SuperRob
Henry was a master at slowing the defenders down, and then bursting past them at the right time. Theo is hopefully learning to do this.

Me-thinks our best ever number 14 had a few words in the ear of the young pretender before he went back to New York.
Good thing too. It seems to be showing.

 
Re: Theo.
Mad Jens (IP Logged)
11 April, 2012 15:20
Seems like a pretty selective list. Those are essentially all just EPL star personalities.

Most people also described Fabregas as one of the slowest players at the club while he was here. There is absolutely no way he's faster than Clichy.

 
Re: Theo.
SuperRob (IP Logged)
11 April, 2012 15:24
there was a list of top speeds in the world cup in south africa as well.
[www.fifa.com]

click on ts to sort by top speed. It's in Km/h

Anyway Per had a faster top speed than C Ronaldo

And look who's up there in 6th place!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/2012 15:26 by SuperRob.

 
Re: Theo.
Mad Jens (IP Logged)
11 April, 2012 15:25
Quote:
Zainy
This is the list compiled by Castro

I think I just solved the case of the bogus numbers. The communists are cooking the books.

 
Re: Theo.
Philly the kid (IP Logged)
11 April, 2012 15:28
(Sm22)
I had to think about that for a second!

 
Re: Theo.
Peter Storey (IP Logged)
11 April, 2012 15:31
Quote:
De Times
He's maturing, taking on players, and running only when he has to.

What a load of bulls.hit, everyone knows that Theo struggles to take anyone on one-on-one (without a sprint/run at it) and when he's relative static he's an easy target for any defender. He's a f.ucking Larry-let-down, so stop building the fiftypercenter up!



[farm5.static.flickr.com]

Baby I was born to MOAN

 
Re: Theo.
Zainy (IP Logged)
11 April, 2012 15:32
This is not a subjective list. Based on facts. Im not saying you have to believe it to be the truest measure of speed over a distance in the EPL but its not 'made up' or subjective as saying 'Aaron Lennon is faster than Clichy' without something to back it up.
This wasnt compiled over optimal conditions in a flat 100m race, this was compiled using speed tests conducted during matches.
For a more updated list compiled by EA sports, it shows Wilshere as the fastest in match days.
Of course we can all manipulate data or draw conclusions that differ wildly from the same data. The point is Walcott isnt significantly faster than Clichy to consistantly outpace him when Clichy has the head start.
And im still waiting for this evidence that Lennon 'consistantly burned' Clichy.

 
Re: Theo.
Peter Storey (IP Logged)
11 April, 2012 15:32
Cant wait till Ox looses his nappy and takes Gump's place!



[farm5.static.flickr.com]

Baby I was born to MOAN

 
Re: Theo.
Mad Jens (IP Logged)
11 April, 2012 15:34
Did you see Rob's post, Zainy?

The "facts" can be wrong. And I hate to break it to you, but Sol Campbell and Cesc Fabregas are not faster than Ashley Cole and Gael Clichy.

I don't need a lab coat to tell you that.

 
Re: Theo.
Zainy (IP Logged)
11 April, 2012 15:49
Jens- did you read my post? Its not about those facts. And facts cant be wrong, thats why they call them facts.
Its what you derive from the facts that can be interpreted subjectively as a true measure or not.

Sol at 'top speed' could easily be quicker than cole or clichy, but over 20 yards sol is outstripped because of decreased acceleration.

Again im not saying you have to read too much into that list but it was compiled over 2 seasons not over 1 summer tournament.

The point was that there is enough objective evidence to show that the speed difference between clichy and walcott is not going to as great as against other defenders so to suggest this as a basis of comparison is non sensical.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/2012 15:56 by Zainy.

 
Re: Theo.
Mad Jens (IP Logged)
11 April, 2012 15:56
Quote:
And facts cant be wrong, thats why they call them facts.
That's also why I said "facts." The implication there was sarcasm.

And where'd you get that list from? Directly from the Castrol Rankings site?

I do find it odd that the Top 10 "fastest players" (note, sarcastic quotations in use) are all big names you'd likely find on a Fifa '09 EPL All Star team.

 
Re: Theo.
Mad Jens (IP Logged)
11 April, 2012 15:59
I'm guessing it's from here.

They have Speedy Gonzalez at the top, so you know it's reliable.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/2012 16:28 by Mad Jens.

 
Re: Theo.
Zainy (IP Logged)
11 April, 2012 16:00
Okay okay. Lets dial it back. I just put up that list as a illustration. I know you cant trust it 100% because unless you did speed trials on every player in the epl over varying distances there is no objective way to say who is faster etc.

The point i was making seems to have been glossed over by this list which is partly my fault.

Walcott is very fast. Clichy is very fast. In a head to head im pretty sure Walcott will beat Clichy (he did over 40 yards at Arsenal)
But if you gave Clichy a 2 yard head start over 15 yards, I dont think Walcott is quick enough to beat him every time.
Thats the point.

 
Re: Theo.
Mad Jens (IP Logged)
11 April, 2012 16:04
Well, that's one of the points. I understand that and I don't have any problem with it.

My point is that just because something's in a list and they say they've got data, doesn't make it the bible. Because I guarantee you that list is no more an indication of player speed than Fifa's that Rob provided.

 
Re: Theo.
Peter Storey (IP Logged)
11 April, 2012 16:10
Still cant get over most you guys, all you seem to be talking about is sprinting. Four points other than sprinting you ought to know about:

1. wally can only genarally beat a man when running at full tilt A). when the ball is floated over or passed by the defender cool smiley when he is already sprinting towards the defender with a decent run-up
2. Most of the time Wally runs straight into the defender
3. Most of the time Wally falls over
4. And like 'Where's Wally' book character, you have trouble finding the f.ucker for long periods of the match



[farm5.static.flickr.com]

Baby I was born to MOAN

 
Re: Theo.
PiP the Gunner (IP Logged)
11 April, 2012 16:11
Quote:
MJ
They have Speedy Gonzalez at the top, so you know it's reliable.

It can't be...they haven't even mentioned the Roadrunner. Meep Meep.

But Zainey's main point is correct - to beat someone like Clichy, Theo would have to be running slowly with the ball while Clichy is back-peddling, then push it past him & burst away.

The thing I've noticed is quite a lot of defenders get close to Theo as he receives the ball so as he's about to turn, they get the tackle in & disposess him before he has a chance to run at them.

He needs to come short quickly to receive the ball to give himself room to turn & run at the defender.

 
Re: Theo.
Zainy (IP Logged)
11 April, 2012 16:13
And ive never said that it is the bible. I specifically said its open to interpretation.

I study statistics and research so I know how things can be interpreted. Using similar formulas to calculate speed, taking data over 2 seasons DOES make it more reliable than over 1 tournament.

This is a fact (or as close to as)- Sol Campbell has reached a speed of 22.50mph during game time.
Whether you think he is fast or not is a matter of opinion. Whether you think this is an indication of speed is also a matter of opinion, not fact.

 
Re: Theo.
Mad Jens (IP Logged)
11 April, 2012 16:20
1. I'm going to make a website.

2. I'm going to put Road Runner at the top.

3. I'm going to say that my data is from the Castrol Rankings website. For credibility.

4. I'm going to hit "Sort by Speed" in Fifa '12.

There's my list!

So no Zainy, what you posted aren't facts unless you get them verified. And I'll not be told I'm just being "subjective" because I've seen Cesc outpaced by players in relegation sides, and that you're being "objective" because you found a list on a website with cartoons. And that, that somehow gives you more credibility.

The Theo v. Clichy point is well taken and I think you're right, but please. Spare me your facts if that's the best you're going to do.

 
Re: Theo.
Zainy (IP Logged)
11 April, 2012 16:24
Jens I suggest you do a bit of work before having a go at me. Many websites and newspapers picked up that list with direct reference to Castro. So no you cant do the above and past it off as the same.
Liable is a word that would be bandied about if you had done what you said.

 
Re: Theo.
Mad Jens (IP Logged)
11 April, 2012 16:25
Many websites and newspapers?

I'd love to hear some.

 
Re: Theo.
Zainy (IP Logged)
11 April, 2012 16:31
[www.thesun.co.uk]

[www.footy-boots.com]

Whether or not its deemed accurate is debatable, and id certaily not hold it as the most accurate measure. But no matter what you say, your views are still subjective. As are mine. I merely put out facts as an illustration.

 
Re: Theo.
11 April, 2012 16:37
Quote:
SuperRob
there was a list of top speeds in the world cup in south africa as well.
[www.fifa.com]

click on ts to sort by top speed. It's in Km/h

Anyway Per had a faster top speed than C Ronaldo

And look who's up there in 6th place!

When I tried to sort this Italys goalie {Buffoon} came 4th in the quickest player list. Blame it on the boogie.

 
Re: Theo.
gunnersingh (IP Logged)
11 April, 2012 16:39
Zainy, 36 seconds onwards [www.youtube.com]

 
Re: Theo.
Mad Jens (IP Logged)
11 April, 2012 16:42
Quote:
Whether or not its deemed accurate is debatable

Understatement of the century.

 
Re: Theo.
Zainy (IP Logged)
11 April, 2012 16:42
Good man gunnersingh! I appreciate that!
However, that shows Clichy falling over not being out paced...
The lad Lennon is very quick mind.

 
Re: Theo.
Zainy (IP Logged)
11 April, 2012 16:56
Heres a little something to cheer those of you who felt you were robbed of 5 minutes of your life by reading this thread.

Enjoy.

 
Re: Theo.
Mad Jens (IP Logged)
11 April, 2012 17:10
Was already laughing.


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