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Can we trust Wenger to deliver his philosophy?
Posted by: Arsenal Times (IP Logged)
Date: 05 March, 2009 19:51

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/03/2009 20:06 by Padre Pio.

 
Re: Can we trust Wenger to deliver his philosophy?
Posted by: Merlion96 (IP Logged)
Date: 05 March, 2009 20:16

The missing ingredient is really a Libero in the mold of Makelele.

Our problems are:

1) Wenger desires to address Fabregas' frustration in being substituted late in Spain's Euro 2008 game when a more defensive approach is needed to defend a slender lead.

2) He did it by laying 4-2-3-1 with Dneilson-FAbregas partnership in a holding midfield role but with one of them sittign back when he partner drives into the box.

3) Denilson is still "work-in-progress" as Libero. But give him 2 seasons more, he will blossom into that defensive steel of a Makelele. I think Denislon is slightly taller than Makelele isn't it?

4) The TEAM was completely disrupted by major injuries, especialy Fabregas and Walcott which limited our attacking option.

5) Again, the failure of Eboue and Diaby to develop to takeover the slake in the absence of Rosicky, Fabregas, Heb and Flamini.

****************************************************
But the signs are good we are gettingn there.
And the purchase of Arshavin makes all the difference in providing guile and creativeness isntead of those drab displays in 2008.

- Denilson is improving,
- Diaby is getting into stride to fulfil his potential,
- Nasri is playing more centrally,
- Bendtner is coming to grip with his "Lone Striker" role.
- Walcott returning next week,
- Eduardo returning within 2 week.

The glaring weakness is of course van Persie who has yet to develop an understanding with hsi team-mates and somewhat make me feel that bulk of hsi goals are due to his individual briliancy and not created by team-work.

Van Persie is an egnima.

Will he ever fit into an Arsene Wenger team with telegraphic understanding with hsi c0-partner and all midfielders?

 
Re: Can we trust Wenger to deliver his philosophy?
Posted by: karsene16 (IP Logged)
Date: 05 March, 2009 20:36

Quote:
The glaring weakness is of course van Persie who has yet to develop an understanding with hsi team-mates and somewhat make me feel that bulk of hsi goals are due to his individual briliancy and not created by team-work.
Van Persie is an egnima.

Will he ever fit into an Arsene Wenger team with telegraphic understanding with hsi c0-partner and all midfielders?

(Sm53)

well spotted



http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e232/karsene/wilshere.jpg?t=1376646952

 
Re: Can we trust Wenger to deliver his philosophy?
Posted by: mapleleafgooner (IP Logged)
Date: 05 March, 2009 21:22

He did say it will take another 3-4 seasons for the current team to gell and deliver the trophies. And that is provided the key players stay put.

 
Re: Can we trust Wenger to deliver his philosophy?
Posted by: Gööfle11 (IP Logged)
Date: 05 March, 2009 22:01

Oh, well spotted Merl. Something that I get criricised for...

Why does everybody always go on about the central midfield? Has anybody else noticed that we do not have top class winger (unless you count Arshavin in that role) and not one top class goal scorer, other than Eduardo?

It is too easy for you to go on about a "libro" etc and all that bullshizzle, but the rest of the team is pretty average, and the back ups are worse than average.

 
Re: Can we trust Wenger to deliver his philosophy?
Posted by: Padre Pio (IP Logged)
Date: 05 March, 2009 22:32

Walcott not top class?

 
Re: Can we trust Wenger to deliver his philosophy?
Posted by: Bring back stepanovs! (IP Logged)
Date: 05 March, 2009 23:19

i sense another controversial outburst by th14.....

 
Re: Can we trust Wenger to deliver his philosophy?
Posted by: Merlion96 (IP Logged)
Date: 06 March, 2009 05:18

(Sm16)..that is what make this FORUM here so highly addictive isn't it?

We need more characters like TH14...and more visitors like WHiteAhrtlotPricness, Gazza, Pioneer, youngdish...

Irritate the hell out of us..(Sm149)..but hey..it is all good and clean fun...(Sm154)

See, sicne 3 seasons ago, Arsenal is so downed and out that our Top-4 members do not deem Arsenal FOrum worth a visit unlike thsoe glorious years of 2003-2005 before our TEAM went t.i.ts up and kaput...(Sm77)

 
Re: Can we trust Wenger to deliver his philosophy?
Posted by: Gööfle11 (IP Logged)
Date: 06 March, 2009 07:53

So you honestly class Walcott as top class? Dude, come on man. It is total stupidity to class Theo anywhere near top class. Pires, Arshavin, Ronaldo, Ljungberg (for a year or so), Ribery and Messi were/are top class, Walcott is on the verge of greatness, but he is not pushing it.

 
Re: Can we trust Wenger to deliver his philosophy?
Posted by: Merlion96 (IP Logged)
Date: 06 March, 2009 08:58

Walcott is a late developer.
And World Cup 2006 held back his develoment by a year or so.

Justw atch Walcott flies when he had gained maturity and upper body strength.

he cna only get better and better when training with the likes of Arshavin, Rosicky and Fabregas which will help in his "football brain" development.

And if rumors are correct and we buy Daivd Silva, Dvid Villa and Spanish players in teh summer, it will only help all those youngsters during training sessions.

 
Re: Can we trust Wenger to deliver his philosophy?
Posted by: karsene16 (IP Logged)
Date: 06 March, 2009 09:29

TH14 is right, Walcott is not ready, he's got top class speed and is improving but he's not top class yet. He's not consistant enough he was in poor form for us then goes off the play for England scores a hattrick and all of a sudden he's top class again (Sm9).

our wings can't rely on a player that hardly completes a full 90mins.



http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e232/karsene/wilshere.jpg?t=1376646952

 
Re: Can we trust Wenger to deliver his philosophy?
Posted by: Bergmars (IP Logged)
Date: 06 March, 2009 10:57

I have to say Im with TH14 on this Walcott has done little to convince me as yet,and if someone could dreg up old posts I have been banging on that we have no NATURAL wide players,those who can get behind defences and actually cross accuratly and cosistently.Dare I say similar to what Lennon did to Evra but with a good delivery as the end product which IMO is all thats missing from Lennons game.Walcott to often resembles a rabbit caught in headlights,he is not a natural wideman and I think will eventually play through the middle.



DB10,the best.

 
Re: Can we trust Wenger to deliver his philosophy?
Posted by: Merlion96 (IP Logged)
Date: 06 March, 2009 11:17

Walcott is not a natural winger..agreed.

And by sticking him out there, Wenegr is developing him into a central striker:

1 - able to hold onto to abll in tight situation and beat defenders in a tight space.

2 - Devleop his awareness - fotball brain - on bringing team-mates into play.

3 - Developing his delivery and passing skills in opening up defence and pass yourself out of a tight situaiton when surrounded by 2 or 3 defenders.

4 - Learn how to time his runs like Henry, from deep, from flanks and cut into centre.

5 - And when he is rotated into centrals triker, it is naturally and isntinctively for Walcott to be a mobile central striker, holding the balls even surroudne dby 3 or 4 defenders, and timed his passes to brign his co-striekr into place or witht hat developed peripheral vision, sliped a pass to an atacking midfielder like Fabregas drifting noto the box un-notice to run clear to goal.

Many a times lasts eaosn that Adebayor or Van Persie and even Hleb failed to pick-yp Fabregas who dirfted un-noticed into the box - expecting a quick one-two or a one-touch one-pas ball to him.

Instead, Helb or Adebayor wil imediately take the bal out of teh box with a frustrated hanging out tehre in free space.

But with Arshavin, Eduardo and development of Walcott and Vela, we are going to re-discover our one-two passes in the box.

After World CUp 2006, Walcott was expected to instantly step into senor teama nd paly Wengerball as if he is borned to it.

It is not.
And the french SPine needs 2 to 3 seasons to develop that telegraphic understanding.

And how many seasons had Fabregas palyed with hsi rpesent regular partners and team-mates including Walcott?

FFS!! Denilson, Diaby, Walcott, Nasri adne ven van Persie are playing their very first FULL SEASON together.....and what hapen?

HORRENDOUS INJURY LIST which scrapped this season and senior players got tos atrt all voer again to develop that telegraphic understanding for 2009/10 season.

You notice that Rosicky, Arshavin, Eduardo, Adebayor and Walcott enver play together?

main Atribute:

We need to inject that element fo unrpedictability into team-plays again.
And Walcott's apce is just one of the many weapons in our arsenal now to inject pace and unpredicatbaility into out impotent attacks.

Imagine Walcott hovering around in centre circle and by-line.
Which team si daft enoguh to let Walcott un-marked with ALL their full-backs and CB counter-attacking Arsenal?

Teh name Walcott alone - whiche quate t pace and lightning counter-attack - will make ROma to devise another defence to handle Walcott.

This si teh FEAr that Walcott will bring to any opponents, merley by being named in the team.

 
Re: Can we trust Wenger to deliver his philosophy?
Posted by: AJ The Gunner (IP Logged)
Date: 06 March, 2009 17:26

Quote:
mapleleafgooner
He did say it will take another 3-4 seasons for the current team to gell and deliver the trophies. And that is provided the key players stay put.

The key question is; will the key players stay put if we fail to clinch the 4th spot? thank heavens villa look like they are imploding and everton are dropping points but without CL next season i really can't count on them staying.loyalty and football hadly mix now.


lack of genuine wingers make it easy to predict arsenals play especially now that our quick passing fast counter attacks are missing.

RVP is really an enigma as i am forced to agree with Merlion that he has failed to gel or form a great strike force with any player.i would ship him to the right wing were he plays well for the dutch team if i were wenger.

i still feel our mifield lacks steal and we can't dominate games with what we have unless we really really speed up our play with zippy passes like we did against milan.

 
Re: Can we trust Wenger to deliver his philosophy?
Posted by: Gooner_Mike (IP Logged)
Date: 06 March, 2009 18:23

Walcott is top class, not world class but he will get there. A hat-trick against croatia not good enough? Not even rooney could do that. His pace with the ball is phenomenal nobody comes close.

 
Re: Can we trust Wenger to deliver his philosophy?
Posted by: Padre Pio (IP Logged)
Date: 06 March, 2009 18:45

Mike I agree with you 100%.
The important thing is his pace frightens dfences. They are scared npot to mark him, it gives us space

 
Re: Can we trust Wenger to deliver his philosophy?
Posted by: Gööfle11 (IP Logged)
Date: 06 March, 2009 19:24

Pace does not equal footballing ability.

 
Re: Can we trust Wenger to deliver his philosophy?
Posted by: ArsenalForever (IP Logged)
Date: 06 March, 2009 19:47

his run against liverpool shows that he has footballing ability

try to run as fast while dribbling past defenders

it might look easy on telly but i guarantee you its a very hard technique to master

 
Re: Can we trust Wenger to deliver his philosophy?
Posted by: AJ The Gunner (IP Logged)
Date: 06 March, 2009 19:51

Quote:
TH14
Pace does not equal footballing ability.

whats with you.Theo is more consistent than the likes of Ade whose wages were increased to bang in more goals.

the issue with theo is not whether he is world class or top class but the fact that his pace gives us advantage.his pace frightens defenders like Padre pointed out and it gives us space

 
Re: Can we trust Wenger to deliver his philosophy?
Posted by: Gööfle11 (IP Logged)
Date: 06 March, 2009 19:57

Why do people keep bring in Adebayor? It is a seperater issue and a different player. The culture of comparing players is ruining football. Judge the individual player.

 
Re: Can we trust Wenger to deliver his philosophy?
Posted by: karsene16 (IP Logged)
Date: 06 March, 2009 21:05

Ade's scored a hattrick this season, RvP hasn't and people still say RvP is our best playerdrinking smiley,

judging someone on one game for england when he scored the same amount of goals as he has done for his club with over 15 times the more minutes isn't a good case, when he failed to score passed a few shite teams.



http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e232/karsene/wilshere.jpg?t=1376646952

 
Re: Can we trust Wenger to deliver his philosophy?
Posted by: Merlion96 (IP Logged)
Date: 06 March, 2009 22:14

Yes, Walcott brings pace. which adds another dimension to our plays, which forces defence to take care of another problem.

Now, Walcott's pace, Arshavin's guile, Nasri's dribbling, Eduardo's predatory instinct...and throw in Fabregas' passing skills...

We have a team that no defence that will not eb pierced even if they put 10 men behind the ball. They will be dragged al over the place.

After Walcott's injury and before Arshavin, we were playing dreadful football with no guile, no passing ability and worse of all, no pace in attack.

 
Re: Can we trust Wenger to deliver his philosophy?
Posted by: Bring back stepanovs! (IP Logged)
Date: 07 March, 2009 00:28

'The culture of comparing players is ruining football' (Sm22)

 
Re: Can we trust Wenger to deliver his philosophy?
Posted by: Billythekid (IP Logged)
Date: 07 March, 2009 02:18

If people stopped comparing good footballers with great ones the argument as to whether one footballer is better than the other would have no frame of reference, therefore nobody would know what was good and what was great ?!
Maybe you meant that people should not compare players that are plying their trade in different positions ?

 
Re: Can we trust Wenger to deliver his philosophy?
Posted by: Gooner_Mike (IP Logged)
Date: 07 March, 2009 03:44

TH14 maybe you cant read, I said pace "with the ball". Just watch what he did against liverpool, single handedly set us up for the win against them till the babel dive.

Fair play if you think hes not good enough but in the games so far I think hes done more than enough to show he can @#$%& on the likes of denilson in the starting 11..

 
Re: Can we trust Wenger to deliver his philosophy?
Posted by: Merlion96 (IP Logged)
Date: 07 March, 2009 08:24

IN WENGER WE TRUST.

It is like sterling silver, tarnished and blacken for the last 4 seasons.

Spit and polish needed to bring it back to its mirror-like finish.

 
Re: Can we trust Wenger to deliver his philosophy?
Posted by: AJ The Gunner (IP Logged)
Date: 07 March, 2009 08:44

Quote:
Merlion96
IN WENGER WE TRUST.
It is like sterling silver, tarnished and blacken for the last 4 seasons.

Spit and polish needed to bring it back to its mirror-like finish.

Trust My Philosophy cos Arsene Knows.

I wish he boots Ade out of the club and flushes some characters out as well and replaces them with quality.we really need quality backup for the times when injury which is a definate constant in football comes along.for it always comes.
i really doubt if the likes of theo,eduardo, fab, rosicky were fit we will be in this situation that we find ourselves.
the only thing is that wenger may never have signed arshavin if fab wasn't injured.

 
Re: Can we trust Wenger to deliver his philosophy?
Posted by: karsene16 (IP Logged)
Date: 07 March, 2009 09:47

Wenger knows Adebayor is good enough for Arsenal.



http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e232/karsene/wilshere.jpg?t=1376646952

 
Re: Can we trust Wenger to deliver his philosophy?
Posted by: AJ The Gunner (IP Logged)
Date: 07 March, 2009 10:13

Quote:
karsene16
Wenger knows Adebayor is good enough for Arsenal.

Are you joking or you really mean what you are saying.well since wenger thinks he is vital to arsenal then i guess he thinks ade is good enough but frankly Ade is a complete joke.i still cringe that he is our African footballer of the year.a very bad year for our african players.

 
Re: Can we trust Wenger to deliver his philosophy?
Posted by: karsene16 (IP Logged)
Date: 07 March, 2009 10:31

Wenger plays him, he's one of the highest paid players at the club, Wenger busted a gut to keep him and wouldn't sell him for 20mil and get two 10mil unknowns the price wenger normally gets his players for. Yes he hasn't had the goals recently but we are playing a different style to last season which will change when players like Eduardo are back.

Ade is the best lone striker in the league, this season he's played with RvP or Bendtner, his game better with him having an extra creative mid behind him or a creative striker like Eduardo. When he plays in a 5 man mid or with Eduardo then i will comment on what he can do or can't do.

This team is a different team to last season's so the whole team need time to adapt.



http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e232/karsene/wilshere.jpg?t=1376646952

 
Re: Can we trust Wenger to deliver his philosophy?
Posted by: Bergmars (IP Logged)
Date: 07 March, 2009 13:02

Linford Christie had pace but he couldnt play football,Walcott may come good I think he will but as a central striker,what Im saying is he is not a wide man and certainly not top class yet.Most discussions re Arsenal are about what could or may happen what most of us dispute is the here and now.The future is something no one can predict,its massively flawed because you just cant say who is going to progress and who will not,in the meantime as mapleleaf has quite rightly stated we may lose key players bringing us back to start again.



DB10,the best.

 
Re: Can we trust Wenger to deliver his philosophy?
Posted by: Gööfle11 (IP Logged)
Date: 07 March, 2009 13:43

I will keep saying this, it is great that Walcott has pace, he has done some wonderful things for us, but in the majority of his matches for the club he has been poor. He seemed to be coming good, but he was still doing little compared to the likes of Pires etc.

He will be an amazing player, no doubt, but he does not fit into a fully fir Arsenal team, unless you leave van Persie on the bench.

 
Re: Can we trust Wenger to deliver his philosophy?
Posted by: Padre Pio (IP Logged)
Date: 07 March, 2009 20:28

Of course he has done less that Pires, he is barely 20, Pires is in mid 30s.
Yes Walcott is work in progress, but he was progressing in the rght direction

 
Re: Can we trust Wenger to deliver his philosophy?
Posted by: Gööfle11 (IP Logged)
Date: 08 March, 2009 11:51

That is true, thanks for repeating that. My point, again, is that he is not there yet. He is way off what Arshavin or Pires can/could give us.

 
Re: Can we trust Wenger to deliver his philosophy?
Posted by: Gooner_Mike (IP Logged)
Date: 08 March, 2009 12:28

Quote:
My point, again, is that he is not there yet.

Hes done miles better than the likes of henry, pires, and arshavin did at the age of 20! He needs games to show his true potential and his shoulder popping out every other game hasnt helped. Hopefully by next season he will be a regular starter and you can eat your words.

 
Re: Can we trust Wenger to deliver his philosophy?
Posted by: Gööfle11 (IP Logged)
Date: 08 March, 2009 12:33

Hey, thanks for stating my own opinion over and over and over and over and over and over again, then claiming that i disagree and that I am going to "eat my words". It is pathetic mate.

I agree with you. He is a fantastic 20 year old, but he was not playing anywhere near what we should expect from a top class Arsenal player, as he is not a top class Arsenal footballer just yet.

Why don't you copy and paste the above paragraph, then add, "hopefully he becomes a class player and you will look stupid"!

Show them who is boss Mike.

 
Re: Can we trust Wenger to deliver his philosophy?
Posted by: Gooner_Mike (IP Logged)
Date: 08 March, 2009 12:42

Im sorry I got bored reading half way through that last pile of crap, but its funny how your the same person who claims Denilson is one of the best defensive midfielders in the world, or at least "top 5" yet you think Walcott, who scored a world class hattrick against croatia and tore about 6 liverpool players to shreds, isnt Arsenal quality.

Im not sure what drugs you are on but I recommend staying off them your going delusional. Or better yet you could try thinking before opening your mouth...

 
Re: Can we trust Wenger to deliver his philosophy?
Posted by: Gööfle11 (IP Logged)
Date: 08 March, 2009 13:28

Yet again, idiots who think in black and white fail to understand that you can have two opinions on the same issue. I rate Walcott, I also rate Denilson. Walcott was not playing like that in every match, he scored a "World Class" hat-trick in one game, a magical run in another, a few other moments here and there. But you fail to accept that Denilson is playing well because he does not foam at the mouth?

Just because I do not agree with the popular opinion that Walcott is a fantastically brilliant and highly important member of our team does not make me delusional.

 
Re: Can we trust Wenger to deliver his philosophy?
Posted by: AJ The Gunner (IP Logged)
Date: 09 May, 2010 20:46

i went back and dug up this article i wrote while soul searching on whether i can trust mr. wenger to deliver on his philosophy........ and since i wrote this, we have only managed to finish 3rd to secure CL football while failing to deliver a single trophy...since then we were smashed and humiliated out of the CL by barca and lost to wigan after being 2 goals up...... etc.......

a lot has happened since i wrote this and my verdict as regards the questions asked are; I DON'T TRUST WENGER AND HIS PHILOSOPHY AGAIN...I THINK THE LAW OF DIMINISHING RETURNS HAS SET IN...,I FEEL HE IS DELUSIONAL AS TO HIS OBSESSION TO WIN WHILE MAINTAINING THIS CRAZY SYSTEM...........I DON'T BELIEVE HE WILL SIGN THE QUALITY PLAYERS WE NEED UNLESS I SEE THE PLAYERS HOLDING OUR JERSEYS UP[I KNOW THE MOROCCAN LAD IS ON THE WAY BUT STRONG RUMOURS SUGGEST CESC IS HEADING TO BARCA... I PRAY ITS FALSE COS I JUST LOVE THAT LAD]

BOTTOM LINE FOR ME IS THAT WENGER HAS FAILED WOEFULLY THIS SEASON AND HAS MANY SHAMEFUL GAMES I WOULD LOVE TO FORGET LITTERED IN BETWEEN ............ VERY SAD........



http://i400.photobucket.com/albums/pp87/ajplatinum/arsenal3d9rw2-001.jpg

GUNNERS FOR LIFE!!

 
Re: Can we trust Wenger to deliver his philosophy?
Posted by: Padre Pio (IP Logged)
Date: 09 May, 2010 23:45

Yes you are right he cant be trusted to deliver, But Cesc will saty one more season. If he buys 4 good players i will believe in him again.



Arsenal is a top 16 European club that will remain a top 16 European club and the Emirates is tape-loop that will show the same drab movie for a decade.

Nothing will change except the ticket prices

Kroenke & Wenger are made for each other.

Arsenal’s not a football club. It’s just a business. Myles Palmer

 
Re: Can we trust Wenger to deliver his philosophy?
Posted by: eduardo (IP Logged)
Date: 10 May, 2010 01:17

and that moron still finished above twitchy and the tiny totts, says it all about the totts really

 
Re: Can we trust Wenger to deliver his philosophy?
Posted by: SandyB (IP Logged)
Date: 10 May, 2010 10:08

Quote:
and that moron still finished above twitchy and the tiny totts, says it all about the totts really

Are you started bench marking him against the Totts only or you are suggesting AJ is a Tott?

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