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Martin Atkinson - FA cup Semi
fred dibnah (IP Logged)
15 April, 2012 18:48
Unbelievable decision to award a goal for Chelsea.
Demoted to the championship after this ?

 
Re: Martin Atkinson - FA cup Semi
Jabberwocky (IP Logged)
15 April, 2012 19:23
He cocked that one up, eh? Never looked in, how he gave it God only knows.

 
Re: Martin Atkinson - FA cup Semi
Foreverclaret (IP Logged)
15 April, 2012 19:52
Shocking decision, demoted to the conference never mind the Championship, these decisions are getting worse by the day.

 
Re: Martin Atkinson - FA cup Semi
bordeauxclaret (IP Logged)
15 April, 2012 20:33
Another game ruined by a referee.

Derry sent off and a United penalty because Young dived, another penalty to United tiday because Young dived again, Balotelli gets away with a leg breaker because, apparently, the linesman saw it but thought nothing of it and now a goal awarded that wasn't even close to crossing the line.

You'd think after Young made a mug of the referee last week they'd be wary of the cheating little toe-rag but no Halsey falls for it again today. And this useless bunch of buffoons are the best we've got. Jesus wept.

When is football going to get a grip of this problem ? There just isn't any other game comes close to being as badly run and officiated as football. It's a joke sport, the laughing stock of the sporting world.



BC
Prediction League Champion 2006/7
Fantasy League Winner 2007/8

 
Re: Martin Atkinson - FA cup Semi
Brian O'Neil (IP Logged)
16 April, 2012 01:29
It's not just reffs BC,rule makers and enforcers of all persuasions in these times are well up their own @#$%&*...it leaves all forms of criticism of their ineptitude inaudible and unseeable to their ranks.Worry not BC the circle is turning.

 
Re: Martin Atkinson - FA cup Semi
Longsiders1882 (IP Logged)
16 April, 2012 12:12
Not sure young dived BC, went down theatrically yes but both incidents there was definite contact - in the modern game that is a foul - and a foul in the box is a penalty.

We may not like it but that is the modern game.

As for this decision and all the ensuing furore about goal line technology. I'm all for the technology but even in its absence I cannot for the life in me understand how the ref decided the ball even might have gone over the line, let alone did.

Been another poor season, how much do these so called professional referees get paid now?

On a final note, I hate this relegated to the football league stuff - as though as fans we deserve a lower standard of officiating than the Premier League teams.



"A truth’s initial commotion is directly proportional to how deeply the lie was believed. It wasn’t the world being round that agitated people, but that the world wasn’t flat. When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic."

"The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves."

 
Re: Martin Atkinson - FA cup Semi
bordeauxclaret (IP Logged)
16 April, 2012 21:57
"Not sure young dived BC, went down theatrically yes but both incidents there was definite contact - in the modern game that is a foul - and a foul in the box is a penalty."


Hmmm, what's in a word Longsiders ? If you want to say that there was contact both times therefore it wasn't a 'dive', then you're right. It's just semantics though surely ? Diving, going to ground easily or theatrically, looking for the tackle, it's all the same imo.

Basically if a player throws himself onto the floor when he could have stayed on his feet, then he's 'diving', whether there was contact or not. There was no possibility that the contact between Young and both his opponents caused him to go down, he went down because he chose to, no other reason. As far as I'm concerned that's cheating.

I'd be interested in knowing the actual law that states that if there is any physical contact at all between players, and one player falls down, an offence has occurred and a free-kick or penalty is awarded. As far as I'm aware no such law exists.

I do believe there was a directive issued a while ago that said something along those lines though, and the problem has got worse since then. And no wonder, that directive was a cheat's charter, look for contact, fall down and the mug in black will give you a penalty. It's typical of the current state of the game though that referees are complicit in condoning, encouraging even, cheating. It's hard to take the game seriously at the moment, the last two United matches I've simply stopped watching, they were just ruined by farcical refereeing.

It's supposed to be difficult to score a goal at football, what's the point of the game if all you have to do to get a goal is get yourself close enough to make contact with an opponent and then throw yourself onto the floor ? If they don't sort it out the game will be dying on it's feet in a few years time. This is not what football's supposed to be about, this is anarchy, it has to be stopped.



BC
Prediction League Champion 2006/7
Fantasy League Winner 2007/8



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 16/04/2012 22:00 by bordeauxclaret.

 
Re: Martin Atkinson - FA cup Semi
overt'borderclaret (IP Logged)
16 April, 2012 22:20
This diving lark seems to have gradually crept in to the game until it becomes accepted as being part of the modern game.

 
Re: Martin Atkinson - FA cup Semi
aggi (IP Logged)
16 April, 2012 22:56
Easy solution, just make football non-contact. Like netball or something



http://imagegen.last.fm/longside3/recenttracks/mauwf79.gif

 
Re: Martin Atkinson - FA cup Semi
Longsiders1882 (IP Logged)
17 April, 2012 08:15
I'm not sure I'm saying it is right BC - just thats how it is right now.

I also think you have to give some consideration to the speed at which these guys are running and turning. I often used to see Ronaldo accused of this yet running at the pace he is, turning as he does I'd imagine it doesn't take much to knock you off balance - and once your balance starts to go and you start trying to stay up limbs do go all over - watch somebody on an ice rink try to stay on their feet.

For the record, for me a dive is going down where there is no contact. Once you go beyond this it does become more difficult, trying to decide how much contact is to much. In terms of Young there isn't any argument that the players got near the ball, or in Derry's case were trying to. Are they fouls and penalties? Clearly in the ref's interpretation yes. For me no but this is modern football - and if it is good enough for UEFA's chosen team Barca I guess other teams feel it is good enough for them



"A truth’s initial commotion is directly proportional to how deeply the lie was believed. It wasn’t the world being round that agitated people, but that the world wasn’t flat. When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic."

"The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves."

 
Re: Martin Atkinson - FA cup Semi
bordeauxclaret (IP Logged)
17 April, 2012 09:16
Quote:
Longsiders1882
I'm not sure I'm saying it is right BC - just thats how it is right now.
Yes, I agree that's how it is but it isn't right, it's making football a laughing stock. The big problem is that the people running the game are responsible for this shambles and are showing no inclination whatsoever to sort it out.

I also think you have to give some consideration to the speed at which these guys are running and turning. I often used to see Ronaldo accused of this yet running at the pace he is, turning as he does I'd imagine it doesn't take much to knock you off balance - and once your balance starts to go and you start trying to stay up limbs do go all over - watch somebody on an ice rink try to stay on their feet.

There is something in what you say, I certainly wouldn't expect any player to take a kicking when he can jump out of the way. Players like Young though are just using this as an excuse, he's not been trying to avoid injury, just con the referee. The sad thing is the refs are going along with it. You've got to be a fairly inept refereee not to be able to differentiate between a player trying to avoid getting injured and Young falling down because Derry just touched him. There's a world of difference, but the idiot refs apparently can't see it. Problem is everyone else can and the refs have become ridiculous.

I'm not sure Ice Hockey is a good example, football isn't played on a skating rink. A better comparison might be Rugby or American Football. Watch one of those games and then you'll see how difficult it actually is to bring a player down who wants to stay on his feet, and compare that to the Young's and Drogba's of football.


For the record, for me a dive is going down where there is no contact. Once you go beyond this it does become more difficult, trying to decide how much contact is to much.

That's fine, but what then do you call it when a player goes down who has just received the lightest of touches, which wouldn't drop a 90 year old grandma, but the player throws himself to the ground as Young did in the Derry penalty. Also bear in mind that Young's cheating not only won a goal for United but caused a fellow professional to be banned from playing. The sport can't afford to condone such a morality and it looks like it's only going to be pressure from fans and the media that will get this farcical situation resolved. We can't just shrug our shoulders and say "well, that's the way it is". Why should the cheats ruin our game ? Feck'em.






BC
Prediction League Champion 2006/7
Fantasy League Winner 2007/8

 
Re: Martin Atkinson - FA cup Semi
Longsiders1882 (IP Logged)
17 April, 2012 09:29
As organisations centralise more and more power - ture in all walks of life, usually under the guise of what is best for us etc etc - they pay less and less attention to what the 'masses' want - they couldn't give a monkeys quite frankly and until we all start to vote with our feet (and our TV direct debits) they never will



"A truth’s initial commotion is directly proportional to how deeply the lie was believed. It wasn’t the world being round that agitated people, but that the world wasn’t flat. When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic."

"The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves."

 
Re: Martin Atkinson - FA cup Semi
dandeclaret (IP Logged)
17 April, 2012 10:29
How many penalties could Michael Laudrup have won, going over a hung out leg? Rather than completing some of the brilliance he did in this video?

video: [url]

[/url]

 
Re: Martin Atkinson - FA cup Semi
Longsiders1882 (IP Logged)
17 April, 2012 12:10
Indeed Dan - but that was over a decade ago and in fairness I'm not sure he ever travelled at the pace somebody like Ronaldo or Bale do.

I'm not defending the practice just stating the obvious, it is now almost expected. That is not down to the fans but the players for doing it and accepting it (though lets be honest they have long accepted cheating in various forms, handball, dirty tackles etc etc), managers for undoubtedly encouraging it, FIFA, UEFA, THE FA and referees for not having the will or courage to act.

Dan some of the worst culprits for this will be on show this weekend in Barca strips - not only flinging themselves about, feigning injury and also trying to influence the ref and get people cautioned/sent off. It is not a purely English problem but it is a problem within our game and players just as much as any where else.



"A truth’s initial commotion is directly proportional to how deeply the lie was believed. It wasn’t the world being round that agitated people, but that the world wasn’t flat. When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic."

"The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves."

 
Re: Martin Atkinson - FA cup Semi
dandeclaret (IP Logged)
17 April, 2012 13:12
I understand what you'r saying Longsiders. I listened to Gary Neville on MNF last night, and he's very passionate and pragmatic about the whole situation. I agree it will be very difficult to stamp out. I agree that managers need to do as they say, and get a grip on this. The thing is, it completely ruins a game for me. The Brighton game at home annoyed me, I was delighted we won because of their cheating, not because it was a brilliant spectacle. The 2 young dives this week are just that, Dives. Football has always had a physical element to it, and both incidents this week aren't sufficiently heavy to knock him off balance. The hands went above his head, which is the first sign of a dive (when you fall over, your hands don't go above your head - they go out in front of you - it's an absolute tell tale sign) and he went over with ridiculous ease. It's actually the 2nd one that irritates me more, where he tries to hook the defenders leg. If we're going on physical contact being a foul, then he's actually fouled the Villa player. Stay on your feet, trust your ability, and do something brilliant. Messi doesn't dive as a rule, he tries to stay on his feet, even at times when he's getting clattered.

As I've said for most of this week though, football's morals was summed up in the UEFA fines - more for being a minute late for TV than for Racist Chanting. Says all you need to know about the esteemed leaders of the worlds game.

 
Re: Martin Atkinson - FA cup Semi
morty77 (IP Logged)
17 April, 2012 13:38
Divings been going on for years. Franny Lee in the seventies, that was over forty years ago. I'll agree that he was probably a one off though, but has the influence of overseas players had a bearing on the current situation, and indeed the amount of coverage we now see all over the world?



Cheltenham Nap Champion 07/08
Cheltenham Nap Champion 09/10
Paddock Naps Champion 2013/14
WE DARED TO DREAM!
THEY SENT US KEAN!

 
Re: Martin Atkinson - FA cup Semi
bordeauxclaret (IP Logged)
17 April, 2012 13:39
Try this one from 15 years ago, even everyone's favourite scally wouldn't stoop to the level of the current crop of scumbags cheating their way through game after game nowadays.

[
">www.youtube.com
]



BC
Prediction League Champion 2006/7
Fantasy League Winner 2007/8

 
Re: Martin Atkinson - FA cup Semi
Longsiders1882 (IP Logged)
17 April, 2012 14:30
I agree the second one was worse - I do think there was enough in the first one and I'd want a penalty for that.

In terms of Messi - I once fell foul of saying the same thing, here's a few examples of Messi not diving or going down easily or misbehaving in other ways

video: [url]

[/video]

[video]

[/video]

[video]

[/video]

[video]

[/video]

[video]

[/url]



"A truth’s initial commotion is directly proportional to how deeply the lie was believed. It wasn’t the world being round that agitated people, but that the world wasn’t flat. When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic."

"The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves."

 
Re: Martin Atkinson - FA cup Semi
dandeclaret (IP Logged)
17 April, 2012 14:46
I did say As a rule Jonas. I think there's 4, maybe 5 dives within that compilation, which are also shown on the seperate videos. I do think it's something he has stamped out of his game.

 
Re: Martin Atkinson - FA cup Semi
Longsiders1882 (IP Logged)
17 April, 2012 14:50
There was also a reel of 5 different dives, against Man U, Chelsea and a few others. His fall in the first one looks similar to Youngs and he's not even travelling.

Like I say, it is not peculiar to England and, for me, Barca remain the worst in the world, aided by the refs. I'll never forget how the ref deliberately and blatantly cheated Chelsea, simply because they had Barca in their pocket



"A truth’s initial commotion is directly proportional to how deeply the lie was believed. It wasn’t the world being round that agitated people, but that the world wasn’t flat. When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic."

"The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves."

 
Re: Martin Atkinson - FA cup Semi
Longsiders1882 (IP Logged)
17 April, 2012 15:00
This is a great montage of Barca cheating - espcially annoyed about the 3 penalties Chelsea DIDN'T get:-

video: [url]

[/url]



"A truth’s initial commotion is directly proportional to how deeply the lie was believed. It wasn’t the world being round that agitated people, but that the world wasn’t flat. When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic."

"The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves."

 
Re: Martin Atkinson - FA cup Semi
dandeclaret (IP Logged)
17 April, 2012 16:32
Some of them look poor, I agree. A lot of them are Mascherano who should have been drowned at birth anyway.

AS for the penalties, first one I don't think is, 2nd and 3rd clear cut, 4th one sometimes given, sometimes not, but not sure how that's Barcelona cheating - they are fouls, the referee should be giving them.

As for Adebayor, he might be in a better position to comment if he wasn't guilty himself. I don't think Barcelona are the worst in the world. I think Portuguese games are far worse than Spanish games for it, and even Italian games. Man United would be far from saints either - Nani, Young, Evra - constantly diving.

 
Re: Martin Atkinson - FA cup Semi
bordeauxclaret (IP Logged)
17 April, 2012 18:44
Quote:
morty77
Divings been going on for years. Franny Lee in the seventies, that was over forty years ago. I'll agree that he was probably a one off though, but has the influence of overseas players had a bearing on the current situation, and indeed the amount of coverage we now see all over the world?

Jamie Redknapp was saying this morning that he agrees with Wenger that foreigners introduced diving into this country. As morty points out that's bollox, Lee Wun Pen was conning referees 40 years ago. I remember one player saying there was no point making sure you tackled him outside the box either, he could run on his elbows. Foreigners my backside.



BC
Prediction League Champion 2006/7
Fantasy League Winner 2007/8

 
Re: Martin Atkinson - FA cup Semi
vinnicombe (IP Logged)
17 April, 2012 19:07
Barcelona are bad for it but I'm assuming a video of Madrids cheating would be too long for YouTube. Both are pathetic but Madrid are far worse.

 
Re: Martin Atkinson - FA cup Semi
Longsiders1882 (IP Logged)
17 April, 2012 19:57
But I think only Barca, certainly in the champions league, seem to get the benefit of so many dubious decisions. Also found the training video of Barca practicing diving was funny.

Probably right on Real, see less of them to be honest but there is plenty on YouTube.

I'm somewhat surprised by the lack of hand ringing about Ribery tonight, his dive was worse than Youngs by some distance.



"A truth’s initial commotion is directly proportional to how deeply the lie was believed. It wasn’t the world being round that agitated people, but that the world wasn’t flat. When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic."

"The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves."

 
Re: Martin Atkinson - FA cup Semi
vinnicombe (IP Logged)
17 April, 2012 20:10
Is that really from Barcelona training? Bizarre if it is.
They play each other again on Sat night. With quite a bit riding on it I think it could turn into a farce.

 
Re: Martin Atkinson - FA cup Semi
Longsiders1882 (IP Logged)
17 April, 2012 20:12
I'm assuming it's fake but it does look real so your guess is as good as mine, funny either way though



"A truth’s initial commotion is directly proportional to how deeply the lie was believed. It wasn’t the world being round that agitated people, but that the world wasn’t flat. When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic."

"The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves."


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