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Burnley v Birmingham
fred dibnah (IP Logged)
03 April, 2012 17:19
Wonder if Wade will be playing.
It'd be nice to see him again.
I still miss him.

 
Re: Burnley v Birmingham
LightcliffeClaret (IP Logged)
03 April, 2012 17:35
Hope he gets a good reception, I'm sure he will.

 
Re: Burnley v Birmingham
LightcliffeClaret (IP Logged)
03 April, 2012 17:54
Burnley: Grant Wallace Edgar Duff Trippier Marney McQuoid McCann Bartley Ings Austin

Subs: Jensen Stanislas Fletcher Howieson Hewitt

 
Re: Burnley v Birmingham
LightcliffeClaret (IP Logged)
03 April, 2012 17:55
Looks like we'd sooner play Wallace at left-back than Clunk.

(Sm1)

 
Re: Burnley v Birmingham
aggi (IP Logged)
03 April, 2012 19:46
Commentary's on 5 live sports extra



http://imagegen.last.fm/longside3/recenttracks/mauwf79.gif

 
Re: Burnley v Birmingham
aggi (IP Logged)
03 April, 2012 20:22
Another headed goal for Ings. Manhug's going to love this guy



http://imagegen.last.fm/longside3/recenttracks/mauwf79.gif

 
Re: Burnley v Birmingham
LightcliffeClaret (IP Logged)
03 April, 2012 20:36
3-1, Grant spills directly into the path of an opposition player, quelle surprise!

 
Re: Burnley v Birmingham
Longsiders1882 (IP Logged)
03 April, 2012 20:43
Quote direct from twitter

“3-1 Grant parry to Murphy who knocks it home at second attempt #twitterclarets”

How many times?



"A truth’s initial commotion is directly proportional to how deeply the lie was believed. It wasn’t the world being round that agitated people, but that the world wasn’t flat. When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic."

"The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves."

 
Re: Burnley v Birmingham
vinnicombe (IP Logged)
03 April, 2012 21:34
But it's important to mention that Grant stopped to have a chat with someone outside the club shop so we can forgive these many many errors.

 
Re: Burnley v Birmingham
Dave Thomas (IP Logged)
03 April, 2012 23:19
The manager after the game said "I don't think there's a great deal wrong..."

I think the captain of the Titanic said something similar as his chin slid under the water.

Our little gang commented that after £32million para payments plus player sales... tonight we could only just put a team out... and even that was with players in wrong positions

The first half performance = dire
We woke up at 9.15 and burst into life for 15 minutes when Stanislas came on

and a Birmingham fan on 1089 said he thought Burnley deserved a point.

I kept watching Caldwell thinking boy do we miss something like this.

 
Re: Burnley v Birmingham
bordeauxclaret (IP Logged)
04 April, 2012 00:19
Grant

Trippier, Duff, Edgar, Wallace

Marney

Bartley, Ings, McCann

McQuoid, Austin

Why was Ings in midfield ? Why was McCann wide out on the left ? Why was McQuoid playing as a striker alongside Charlie ? I know someone had to play out of position at left-back but three others as well ? Due to Marney's injury we finally ended up with a sensible team, McCann and Bartley central midfield, Stanislas and McQuoid out wide, Ings and Charlie up front, then we started playing and could/should have murdered them.

It's a worry when a manager tinkers with a team needlessly and only finds the best formation by accident. 0/10 for Eddie tonight.



BC
Prediction League Champion 2006/7
Fantasy League Winner 2007/8

 
Re: Burnley v Birmingham
fulledgelad (IP Logged)
04 April, 2012 00:31
Best experimenting when nothing at stake?



Lest We Forget:
http://i25.tinypic.com/6rkd5g.jpg

 
Re: Burnley v Birmingham
bordeauxclaret (IP Logged)
04 April, 2012 00:57
If that was an experiment, I suggest he tries it out down Gawthorpe first next time. I can help him out as well, save him the bother. Play Ings up front, he's better there than McQuoid, play McCann in midfield, he's better there than Ings, play McQuoid on the wing, he's better there than McCann.

Simples.



BC
Prediction League Champion 2006/7
Fantasy League Winner 2007/8

 
Re: Burnley v Birmingham
fulledgelad (IP Logged)
04 April, 2012 01:17
Better experimenting competitively?



Lest We Forget:
http://i25.tinypic.com/6rkd5g.jpg

 
Re: Burnley v Birmingham
bordeauxclaret (IP Logged)
04 April, 2012 01:36
Much better just getting the team right. That's his job isn't it ? Gawthorpe, training sessions, he can experiment all he wants there, on match days the experiments end, it's a results game and we've just lost one through his tinkering.

It wasn't an experiment, it was a ****ing cock-up. And managers who make too many cock-ups tend to lose their jobs.

Night, night.



BC
Prediction League Champion 2006/7
Fantasy League Winner 2007/8

 
Re: Burnley v Birmingham
fulledgelad (IP Logged)
04 April, 2012 03:02
Potts experimented with a few players..Dobson-from centre forward to Centre midfield to name one
Afterwards..Brennan-from forward to left back..
Docherty-from midfield to right back..
all tried and tested competetively..



Lest We Forget:
http://i25.tinypic.com/6rkd5g.jpg

 
Re: Burnley v Birmingham
vinnicombe (IP Logged)
04 April, 2012 06:52
I'd say now is an ideal time to try out new things personally.
But then I can say that because I didn't go on and pay £26 for what is to us a glorified friendly.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/04/2012 06:54 by vinnicombe.

 
Re: Burnley v Birmingham
Dave Thomas (IP Logged)
04 April, 2012 07:37
This guy won't lose his job... his and Tindall's wages are such that the club couldn't afford to go through any sacking process again... I have this wild theory that he has the hierarchy completely beguiled with his youthful charm.

If he really thinks there is not much wrong he's from a different planet than me...

and even worse than that we could only just put a team out last night.

Easton could have been better than Wallace at left back and then Wallace could have played his normal position. Is Easton injured as well or just on the way out...

The one game that Stanislas should have been on from the start.

£32million plus player sales and we could barely put a team out...

 
Re: Burnley v Birmingham
vinnicombe (IP Logged)
04 April, 2012 09:00
Maybe you should stop taking what is said in press conferences as gospel?

 
Re: Burnley v Birmingham
Dave Thomas (IP Logged)
04 April, 2012 09:55
Oh I hadn't thought of that... so are you saying we should not believe what he says...

 
Re: Burnley v Birmingham
Dave Thomas (IP Logged)
04 April, 2012 09:57
"I don't think there's a great deal wrong."

So are you suggesting he doesn't really mean that?

 
Re: Burnley v Birmingham
vinnicombe (IP Logged)
04 April, 2012 10:32
I'm suggesting maybe what he says to the players in private and what he says to the press might be different.
It's a crazy approach I know but maybe he thinks slagging off a young side in public is not the way to go?

 
Re: Burnley v Birmingham
bordeauxclaret (IP Logged)
04 April, 2012 10:48
Quote:
fulledgelad
Potts experimented with a few players..Dobson-from centre forward to Centre midfield to name one
Afterwards..Brennan-from forward to left back..
Docherty-from midfield to right back..
all tried and tested competetively..

All in the same game ? I don't think so. If Harry had run out of left-backs and had to play John Connelly there, do you think in the same game he'd have played Ray Pointer in midfield, Jimmy Adamson on the left-wing and Brian Pilkington at centre-forward ?

Anyway hopefully Eddie will have seen what a mess his tinkering caused, how it all fell into place when the players were in their best positions in the second-half and won't try out any more daft ideas in league matches again.

As vinnie rightly points out, £26 is a lot of money to pay to watch predictably failing experiments. For that money you should get to see the best team available going all out to win a game, not a collection of square pegs in round holes. The one sensible 'experiment' last night was giving one of the young lads a run-out in the last ten minutes. No problem with that at all, in fact I wish he'd do it more often instead of loaning young players out, let's see if they're good enough or not ourselves.



BC
Prediction League Champion 2006/7
Fantasy League Winner 2007/8

 
Re: Burnley v Birmingham
Longsiders1882 (IP Logged)
04 April, 2012 11:01
Dave, Parachutes and sales are not down to Eddie, he hasn't seen the money - in fact the previous manager spunked more on Cort in fees and wages than Eddies entire spend.

I'm guessing that most of the money has gone on contracts we signed in the Prem - otherwise I can't quite see what has happened



"A truth’s initial commotion is directly proportional to how deeply the lie was believed. It wasn’t the world being round that agitated people, but that the world wasn’t flat. When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic."

"The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves."

 
Re: Burnley v Birmingham
Dave Thomas (IP Logged)
04 April, 2012 11:46
agree with that Longsider... thats down to directors and planning and the 5 year plan that John B was on about in programme notes and he thinks things are on the right track

so that remark is certainly not aimed at Eddie but for sure i sat there thinking last night is this all we have to show for £32million+

 
Re: Burnley v Birmingham
BBC 2 (IP Logged)
04 April, 2012 12:10
Why is it all about money?

I really really believe in what Eddie Howe is doing, look at the wages we had from our Premiership disaster! Fletch was never gonna stay, then we have big earners whom had to go, Laws started but he lost, not just the dressing room but the fans and the entire squad. In comes Howe with the way he wants to play, but the players are not reading from the same page, so what do we do pay big wages to players who are not willing to change? no we get shut, and start from a blank page! The youth

Look at what Eddie has done so far, the players he got rid of straight away, then he tries the unwanted David Edgar who was basically discarded by Coyle and Laws but the best manager in the premiership this season Rogers wanted him (badley) and for what i have seen Edgar is a footballing centre half, something we havent had in a long time 9steve Davis was the last imo).

He lost Mears and Eagles, two players who would have played Eddies way, and replaced them with Tripper and Stanislas! Trippier is imo better than Mears and Stanislas is getting there!

Eddie has not only brought the squad together after the shower who didn't or couldnt play under Laws.

Does any of you not think, that the fact he wants to bring the youth on and give tham a chance has given them th ebelif in themselves to do so well against academy teams in the Youth Cup?

So he played a winger in at left back? didnt Cotterill do the same on occasion with Elliott?

Its not brain surgery, he is using the last few games to try out players in different positions, why pay out for players when the ones we have are either just as good or have the potential to be better, and the only way we can find out for sure is to gove tham a go!!

Trust in Eddie !

 
Re: Burnley v Birmingham
Dave Thomas (IP Logged)
04 April, 2012 14:05
Beeb I think you've been hypnotised... this is my really wild theory... that people are under his beguiling spell..

and I am the only one who can save you all...(Sm132)

 
Re: Burnley v Birmingham
Longsiders1882 (IP Logged)
04 April, 2012 14:19
I think people are just desperate for it to work out Dave, after the hurt of Coyle and disaster of Laws.

I guess there are no more excuses but I approach this next season somewhat apprehensive.



"A truth’s initial commotion is directly proportional to how deeply the lie was believed. It wasn’t the world being round that agitated people, but that the world wasn’t flat. When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic."

"The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves."

 
Re: Burnley v Birmingham
Dave Thomas (IP Logged)
04 April, 2012 15:17
Desperate for it to work out... agree with that as well... and that explains the fund of patience and tolerance being afforded to him...

 
Re: Burnley v Birmingham
bordeauxclaret (IP Logged)
04 April, 2012 21:50
Quote:
BBC 2
Its not brain surgery, he is using the last few games to try out players in different positions,


It seems Jay's on his way, Pato is clearly knackered, and Charlie's shoulder is carrying an ominous amount of strapping. Every possibility that Ings will be our first choice striker next season. He's been played mostly on the left-wing so far, but on Saturday Eddie was really pleased with his display in his preferred position of central striker in the second-half, and that's what we bought him as anyway.

So after a good performance, a goal, and a potential vacancy for a central striker next season, the Birmingham game was an ideal opportunity to give Ings another run-out in the position we bought him for, and we'll probably need him for next season. A perfect chance to 'experiment', try out our new centre-forward. So he starts him in midfield and plays a loanee winger up front.

I've tried, but I still can't follow the logic of that. Does he really think that's the way to go next season, Ings in midfield and McQuoid replacing Jay ?

I'll confidently predict now that that's about as much chance of bringing us success as getting crosses into Iwelumo had. None whatsoever.



BC
Prediction League Champion 2006/7
Fantasy League Winner 2007/8

 
Re: Burnley v Birmingham
ManHug (IP Logged)
05 April, 2012 05:41
He's just making a pigs eat of it all.

We need some recognised, experienced players to toughen us up.

Unfortunately, all I see arriving is more of these Hines, Stanislas, Mee types which will just lead us to relegation.



http://www.songpeople.co.uk/images/stories/george-berry.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_6e-pXyJijUs/S6fVhRO6G4I/AAAAAAAAAQw/14YgqoQB1T4/s320/800px-Boney_M_Bobby_Farrell_2006.jpg

 
Re: Burnley v Birmingham
vinnicombe (IP Logged)
05 April, 2012 07:00
Maybe he's not planning on playing him primarily up front next season? Maybe he feels Austin and Ings might not have the height/strengh/hold up play required?
Maybe he's planning on bringing another striker in with some of the money raised for Jay?
Maybe thats why he's trying him in different positions in meaningless games?
Who knows. Plenty of possibilities.

 
Re: Burnley v Birmingham
bordeauxclaret (IP Logged)
05 April, 2012 10:43
Quote:
vinnicombe
Maybe he's not planning on playing him primarily up front next season? Maybe he feels Austin and Ings might not have the height/strengh/hold up play required?
Maybe he's planning on bringing another striker in with some of the money raised for Jay?
Maybe thats why he's trying him in different positions in meaningless games?
Who knows. Plenty of possibilities.

Yes, who knows ? But the obvious possibility is to play him in the position we bought him for and where he looks a very good prospect indeed, as Eddie himself has said several times. If he shows he can't do the job then try him somewhere else, but if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Anyway he gave up the experiment after 45 minutes and we were much better when he went up front. Hopefully Eddie has now got the urge to tinker out of his system and he'll concentrate on getting a team out that can do the job, he'll have 6/8 friendlies in summer if he wants to 'experiment'.

I'm by no means convinced he was 'experimenting' anyway. He was playing Wallace out of position at left-back and I suspect he decided on those changes as a way to compensate. He just over-complicated and got it horribly wrong imo.

I hope I'm right as well, I prefer that explanation to having a manager who after so long at the club thinks that Ings could be a better midfield player than McCann, McCann could be a better winger than McQuoid, and that McQuoid could be a better striker than Ings. If that's the way he's thinking then we really are in trouble.



BC
Prediction League Champion 2006/7
Fantasy League Winner 2007/8

 
Re: Burnley v Birmingham
Dave Thomas (IP Logged)
05 April, 2012 14:23
I don't think he was experimenting either... he had X number of players available and that dictated what he could put out... and without the injury to Marney would he have even brought Stanislas on?

If Doncaster beat us there really will be something to moan about and a real barometer of how good/bad we are.

But I'll go for a win there maybe 2 - 1

and a 2 - 2 draw v Brighton in the sunshine

 
Re: Burnley v Birmingham
ManHug (IP Logged)
05 April, 2012 14:33
I think we will struggle to win again - they've all given up now, bar Ings, who's Season is just starting and young Trip, who really is a diamond and proof that Master Eddie can do the odd thing right smiling smiley



http://www.songpeople.co.uk/images/stories/george-berry.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_6e-pXyJijUs/S6fVhRO6G4I/AAAAAAAAAQw/14YgqoQB1T4/s320/800px-Boney_M_Bobby_Farrell_2006.jpg

 
Re: Burnley v Birmingham
vinnicombe (IP Logged)
05 April, 2012 15:47
Why would Doncaster be a barometer when we beat a better side than them 5-1 away just last Saturday?

 
Re: Burnley v Birmingham
aggi (IP Logged)
05 April, 2012 16:24
I guess McCann was shifted left for a bit of cover. He did cut his teeth at left-midfield I seem to remember.

Listening to the radio (5 live) they had us with a 4-5-1 in the first half and Ings moving up to make it 4-4-2 in the second.

I think the negativity is exaggerated a little because although we've got decent away form the home games, which most people see, isn't too great.

I suspect that if we'd beaten Portsmouth 5-1 at home last Saturday and then lost 3-1 away mid-week there wouldn't have been the same negativity.



http://imagegen.last.fm/longside3/recenttracks/mauwf79.gif

 
Re: Burnley v Birmingham
Dave Thomas (IP Logged)
05 April, 2012 16:36
because V Doncaster are seriously bad

and Aggi the negativity comes from actually being there and seeing how awful Burnley were until 9.15 whereupon they had a good 15 minutes until 9.30...

 
Re: Burnley v Birmingham
bordeauxclaret (IP Logged)
05 April, 2012 19:22
Quote:
aggi
I guess McCann was shifted left for a bit of cover. He did cut his teeth at left-midfield I seem to remember.

Maybe aggi, but I'm not sure why, McQuoid normally plays wide, he could have provided the cover, it wouldn't be anything he doesn't usually do.

Listening to the radio (5 live) they had us with a 4-5-1 in the first half and Ings moving up to make it 4-4-2 in the second.

They never keep to a rigid formation though do they, for the most part Marney was just in front of the back four, with Bartley, Ings and McCann in front of him. Charlie was up front with McQuoid playing off him and sometimes dropping deep into midfield. If you had to put it into numbers I'd say it was, 4-1-3-1-1 for the most part.

When Marney went off it was 4-4-2, with McQuoid, Bartley, McCann, Stanislas in midfield, and Charlie and Ings up front. Suddenly everyone seemed to know what they were doing and for half an hour we looked a decent team again. And to be fair to him, I've not been over-impressed with Stanislas so far, but he looked a class act when he came on.









BC
Prediction League Champion 2006/7
Fantasy League Winner 2007/8

 
Re: Burnley v Birmingham
vinnicombe (IP Logged)
05 April, 2012 20:52
"because Doncaster are seriously bad"

Well presumably Portsmouth are better and we hammered them so why is this one game the barometer?

 
Re: Burnley v Birmingham
Dave Thomas (IP Logged)
05 April, 2012 21:07
because Doncaster are seriously badder than Portsmouth

 
Re: Burnley v Birmingham
vinnicombe (IP Logged)
05 April, 2012 21:16
So if we lose to Doncaster it means we are really bad then.
But if we hammer a better side we are still bad?
If only there was some format you could use to judge how good you are over a full season? Then at the end you could used that as the barometer? Maybe one day eh.

 
Re: Burnley v Birmingham
Dave Thomas (IP Logged)
05 April, 2012 21:25
yeh...

 
Re: Burnley v Birmingham
vinnicombe (IP Logged)
05 April, 2012 21:34
Just checked and apparently West Ham away was the official barometer for our season so no need to worry.

 
Re: Burnley v Birmingham
Dave Thomas (IP Logged)
05 April, 2012 21:36
Different barometer now...

 
Re: Burnley v Birmingham
vinnicombe (IP Logged)
05 April, 2012 21:40
It's ok though because Man Utds barometer for this season was Rovers at home and they don't seem to be worried.

 
Re: Burnley v Birmingham
Dave Thomas (IP Logged)
05 April, 2012 21:45
They have loadsa barometers...

 
Re: Burnley v Birmingham
vinnicombe (IP Logged)
05 April, 2012 21:48
One for each agenda I would think.

 
Re: Burnley v Birmingham
Dave Thomas (IP Logged)
05 April, 2012 22:00
Don't think I'd worry either if I was 5 points clear at top of Prem.

 
Re: Burnley v Birmingham
vinnicombe (IP Logged)
05 April, 2012 22:04
Shows the folly of judging a team on one game really doesn't it.

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